GM's New Logo

[wws944]

1 minute ago, John348 said:

 

I don't think that was the only one. In the early 2000's my son had bought a new Pontiac and there was a small (maybe 1" X 1" ) GM logo on the bottom of the front fender. If I remember correctly I had a Yukon that had the same badge.

 

True - but those cars were branded as Pontiacs, GMCs, etc.  The EV1 only had the GM logo.  Despite being leased through Saturn dealers, it was not officially a Saturn, and didn't wear the Saturn logo.

[zepher]

20 hours ago, John348 said:

So back to my question.........

 

How many of you have purchased  or leased a NEW GM vehicle in the past 5 years or plan on doing so in the next 2 to 3 years?

 

 

 

I've been looking for a new, or newer, vehicle to replace my '02 Nissan with 240k+ on the clock and was looking at a few GM products but doubt I will purchase one from them now.

Too many complaints and quality issues after doing plenty of research online.

Besides, why would I want to put my money into a company that wants to do away with internal combustion vehicles?

[zepher]

5 hours ago, John348 said:

 

So, I see you are a current customer like myself, does the logo have any affect on your purchase? I know myself I could care less about a logo. 

It's more than just the logo change.

It's the completely new direction the executives have decided to take the company in.

It's the new focus on 'diversity' and 'inclusiveness' instead of building a quality vehicle that people want to buy.

[Locomobile]

5 minutes ago, zepher said:

 

I've been looking for a new, or newer, vehicle to replace my '02 Nissan with 240k+ on the clock and was looking at a few GM products but doubt I will purchase one from them now.

Too many complaints and quality issues after doing plenty of research online.

Besides, why would I want to put my money into a company that wants to do away with internal combustion vehicles?

That is totally understandable and this singular message they are putting out is very irresponsible on their part. Absolutely it's going to deter buyers who are not sure of what they are buying into. Is this a ''soon to be discontinued'' product or not?

[AL1630]

38 minutes ago, Locomobile said:

That is totally understandable and this singular message they are putting out is very irresponsible on their part. Absolutely it's going to deter buyers who are not sure of what they are buying into. Is this a ''soon to be discontinued'' product or not?

1st generation products are often filled with bugs and issues, especially in the tech/computer world. With how computer-based these cars are, it's inevitable that the early ones will come with issues that will need to be sorted out. I don't think I would want to buy one until they've been out for a long time.

[John348]

4 hours ago, wws944 said:

 

True - but those cars were branded as Pontiacs, GMCs, etc.  The EV1 only had the GM logo.  Despite being leased through Saturn dealers, it was not officially a Saturn, and didn't wear the Saturn logo.

 

Sorry I misunderstood, you are right.

[zepher]

I've been a huge GM fan for as long as I can remember.

I wouldn't give up my 60's GM products for anything.  The first vehicle I ever purchased with my own money was a '75 Camaro.  I still browse the for sale sections for Camaros like the one I had but I the last thing I need is another project and pristine ones are just too much for my blood for what they are.

My sister and brother-in-law own a 2009 Silverado 1500 pickup that they rarely use because she drives a 2012 Suburban and he drives a 2016 BMW 745Li.

I have borrowed it on many occasions and even drove it on a 2,200 mile round trip when a cousin was moving and needed the use of a truck.

Having used the truck on many occasions and having done the maintenance on the truck for the last 8 years or so, I really, really like the truck.

I tried to talk them out of selling it to me as they rarely ever use it and pretty much just start it and move it to keep the battery up but my sister won't sell it because she likes it so much.

 

I may end up with a used Silverado 2500 or 3500 for a tow vehicle but I guess I won't be buying a new one with the direction the company is going.

Besides, the newer ones seem to be beset with quality issues that the generation of trucks like my sister's don't have.

Then again, I may end up with a Dodge for a tow vehicle.

If a company has zero loyalty to their customers why should those customers have any loyalty towards the company?

It's a two way street.

[padgett]

OTOH being a GMI grad, I tend toward GM and it eases the spares situation (surprisingly the Reatta and the Allante share a lot of parts and use the same scan tools) Tools and spares is a factor. Of course Allantes being so *Y*678&() cheap six months ago was a factor as was my transition from retractables to removable hardtops that have trunk space.

That said the last new car I bought was a '12 Jeep Grand Cherokee tow car partly for the Mercedes chassis and DOHC-6 but mostly because it had a real integrated towing package (GM dealers did not want to discuss & kept trying to push monster pick-ups) & was sooo overstocked/discounted (new was less than a large more than an '11 with 20k miles).

 

Bottom line: really have no interest in anything after 2015 and have a 999,999 mile warranty on the Jeep. Just suits me.

 

So prefer GM but not if in the way of function.

[John348]

On 1/10/2021 at 8:58 PM, Locomobile said:

Fiat like Daimler has left Chrysler pretty much intact to operate as an American company. Same union, similar supply chain.

 

I guess you missed this article. This is from the NY Post 1-4-21

 

 

[Locomobile]

No I hadn't seen that. To date, even today, Chrysler runs much as it has for years. The Daimler and Fiat merger never really changed much of anything for the people that worked there.

 

Michigan will probably feel the biggest changes. I'm surprised Fiat or Daimler didn't do something similar from the initial buyout. They've had workforce issues for a while, including vehicles being stolen off of the assembly line and taken to a chopshop.

 

 

 

This stealing cars off the line has happened numerous times, it doesn't look like it in the video but this is a really dangerous area where this plant is at.

 

Ron

[padgett]

Apparently Jeep is the cash cow.

[John348]

1 hour ago, padgett said:

Apparently Jeep is the cash cow.

 

Looks that way, they are all over the place. Two of my three sons bought new Jeep Products, I personally don't see the value for their money, but it's their money and their life. 

 

1 hour ago, Locomobile said:

No I hadn't seen that. To date, even today, Chrysler runs much as it has for years. The Daimler and Fiat merger never really changed much of anything for the people that worked there.

 

Michigan will probably feel the biggest changes. I'm surprised Fiat or Daimler didn't do something similar from the initial buyout. They've had workforce issues for a while, including vehicles being stolen off of the assembly line and taken to a chopshop.

 

 

 

This stealing cars off the line has happened numerous times, it doesn't look like it in the video but this is a really dangerous area where this plant is at.

 

Ron

 

Ron,

Two observations on your post,

firstone,  employees have been caught drinking and smoking pot (and worse) on every job at every level and I would be lying if had said I never witnessed/participated in such actions myself .  Heck the people managing hedge funds with our money in it are always caught, but they are usually snorting coke and drinking scotch.

This is a very common negotiating tactic used by management around contract time. I am not disagreeing that it happened, or defending their actions. I personally feel that this is poor decision by management, saying that their product was built by an inferior work force is not good for consumer confidence. Even if they paid the labor $1.00 an hour the product would still be expensive, just a larger profit margin.

 

Second, if their cars are stolen off of their property, then maybe they should look at their security? I had seen rental car centers with better security then the one shown, I find it hard to believe in this day and age that they don't have better security?  That is a management problem, and reflects very poor management at best. Factories in a bad neighborhood is nothing new, more reason to improve security. Seems like they should look at their own management, because they are not doing their job. 

[TerryB]

News today

General Motors – Shares jumped nearly 5% to a record high after the auto giant said it plans to launch an all-electric van called the EV600 this year. The van is a part of GM's plan to invest $27 billion in electric and autonomous vehicles by 2025 and it will be the first vehicle under a new commercial business unit in GM.

[cheezestaak2000]

wonder if lower case change has anything to do with being second to toyota?

 

Edited January 12, 2021 by cheezestaak2000 (see edit history)

[Locomobile]

2 hours ago, TerryB said:

News today

General Motors – Shares jumped nearly 5% to a record high after the auto giant said it plans to launch an all-electric van called the EV600 this year. The van is a part of GM's plan to invest $27 billion in electric and autonomous vehicles by 2025 and it will be the first vehicle under a new commercial business unit in GM.

Unfortunately, investors and consumers are two different groups.

[padgett]

Worked for e. e. cummings

[John348]

47 minutes ago, Locomobile said:

Unfortunately, investors and consumers are two different groups.

Not really, I have bought a new GM vehicle every 3 years since 1989, as long as it is on the AFL/CIO list, and I have some investments in GM stock. 

The new logo has no affect on my future purchase as a loyal consumer, and why would GM care if the logo has an affect on those who are not, it does not really matter to them does it? 

Edited January 12, 2021 by John348 (see edit history)

[TerryB]

The stock uptick means more money available for keeping the business running.  The EV announcement helps bring in more speculative capital, investors want to see companies actively going for the golden ring of the “ next big thing”.

[John348]

Look at Lordstown Motors, symbol RIDE.  They are trying to come up with electric HD trucks

 

[8E45E]

16 hours ago, padgett said:

Worked for e. e. cummings

Or Mary Barra got into bed with k.d.lang.

 

Craig

[bryankazmer]

I have to differ a bit on some of this. 

The Jefferson plant is not in a great neighborhood, but far from the worst in Detroit.  I wasn't be too concerned driving around there, but not a place for an evening stroll. (Packard plant area much dicier)

The Daimler and FIAT eras were very different from an integration of design and supplier contact.  Daimler and Chrysler systems stayed separate.  Two cars resulted - the rear drive 300 on the old E platform, and the Crossfire.  One commercial success, one commercial failure.

The FIAT ownership rapidly coordinated the functions, and FIAT was willing to listen to some of Chrysler's input.  A joint world-wide spec system was quickly available.  US, Mexican, Canadian, Turkish, Italian requests referenced a common system.  The Giulia-based Dodge 200 was a commercial failure, but that weakening of the entire segment had a lot to do with that.

PSA will remain to be seen.  There are opportunities for some Jeep-Peugeot collaboration.

[padgett]

Sorta. The 2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee and Mercedes GL share a chassis and the 3.6 Pentastar shares a number of design points with the contemporary M276. The early 6 cyl versions also use the same transmission "imported from Germany".

 

Personally think the Crossfire is a very underrated car particularly with over 70,000 sold. It is essentally a R170 (SLK320) continuation (same chassis, drivetrain , and interior) made in Germany & replaceing the retractable hardtop with a coupe (my favorite) and a fabric convertible version. Biggest issue was the 3.2 engine (both normal and AMG/SRT version) required a Mercedes STAR scanner and those Chrysler dealers who had, didn't know what to do with them. Even fewer do now but Mercedes did not want anything to do with them.

 

If I dispose of the two SLKs I'd probably look for another 6-speed Crossfire coupe (more Crossfires had manual transmissions than Mercedes). Just Not Black.

 

Meanwhile, back at GM...

 

 

[Peter Gariepy]

 

 

[John348]

[rocketraider]

Build an electric with comparable range to an ICE vehicle and get it where it can be fully recharged in the same time a fuel stop and pee break takes, then you'll have something. Until such time all GM is doing is chasing its tail. When such a vehicle is finally developed, my money says it won't be GM that does it. 

 

Marketing people, accountants, and bandleaders won't get it done. GM has too many of those and not enough engineers to pull off mass-market EV production that is absolutely foolproof out the door. As in tested and proven reliable beyond all doubt, the way Cadillacs were before 1980.

[Billy Kingsley]

On 1/11/2021 at 1:31 PM, wws944 said:

Ironically, the only car in GM history (at least that I know of) to exclusively wear the old GM logo, as opposed to one of the specific brands, was the EV1.

 

What about the Futureliner? I believe that only carried the GM name, but I also know it may have been discounted because it wasn't a car or available to purchase. 

[hidden_hunter]

On 1/12/2021 at 4:26 AM, padgett said:

Every new car has a "content" sticker showing where parts came from. What's yours ?

Germany...

 

I suspect some of us outside of the US probably have a fairly negative view of GM and its management 

[wws944]

7 hours ago, rocketraider said:

Build an electric with comparable range to an ICE vehicle and get it where it can be fully recharged in the same time a fuel stop and pee break takes, then you'll have something. Until such time all GM is doing is chasing its tail. When such a vehicle is finally developed, my money says it won't be GM that does it. 

 

Marketing people, accountants, and bandleaders won't get it done. GM has too many of those and not enough engineers to pull off mass-market EV production that is absolutely foolproof out the door. As in tested and proven reliable beyond all doubt, the way Cadillacs were before 1980.

 

To a large extent, Tesla has already done it.  Many Tesla owners do road trips.  My early Model 3 (Long Range RWD w/aero wheels - the "range monster" version) is an awesome road trip car.  My longest one-day solo drive in it was from my house near San Jose CA to Salt Lake City - about 800 miles.  That is about my limit in an ICE car these days too.  Yes, bio breaks can take a little longer.  But it is healthier to walk around a bit anyway.  And as Elon supplements/replaces V2 Superchargers with V3, the gap continues to close.

 

As for the legacy automakers, they are sitting on 100 years of now-stranded design and manufacturing assets for ICE-related components that need to be replaced.  A lot of them have corporate debt up to their eyeballs.  They also have a huge dealer problem...

[wws944]

3 hours ago, Billy Kingsley said:

 

What about the Futureliner? I believe that only carried the GM name, but I also know it may have been discounted because it wasn't a car or available to purchase. 

 

Interesting point.  They were GM show vehicles that were driven around to different venues, and most survivors are apparently now in private hands.  So I guess they qualify...

[padgett]

"They also have a huge dealer problem... " - said the same thing in '81 when computer cars came out. Prolly same when newfangled overhead valves were introed. Some cars it can be a challenge just to find the starter.

[John348]

10 minutes ago, padgett said:

"They also have a huge dealer problem... " - said the same thing in '81 when computer cars came out. Prolly same when newfangled overhead valves were introed. Some cars it can be a challenge just to find the starter.

 

What is this huge dealer problem you state?  This is not 1981 anymore and the service technicians are just that technicians. When was the last time you heard of anyone needing to replace a starter on any vehicle made in the last 10 years? 

[padgett]

Oh my, the glee club is working overtime. That was a quote from a previous post. I've replaced starters before, just have one car that goes to a dealer because has a lifetime (mine probably) warranty.

 

And what I remember was dealers complaining about the test equipment they had to buy and train in '81, same year the IBM PC came out, most programs were in interpreted Basic (Gee-Whiz Basic came out and was marketted by some guy named Bill..) Around then my PC was a Data General Eclipse and was writing stuff for a Mil-Std-1750A.

 

Also was referring to finding the starter switch. In '70 had to get the Avis lady come out and show me where the key went but earlier a number of European cars had a lever between the seats - spent about a hour looking for the starter switch on a '50s Land Rover (between the seats but hidden - early theft prevention ?

 

(autocorrect not working - where is that Rabbit ?)

Edited January 14, 2021 by padgett (see edit history)

[John348]

20 minutes ago, padgett said:

Oh my, the glee club is working overtime. That was a quote from a previous post. I've replaced starters before, just have one car that goes to a dealer because has a lifetime (mine probably) warranty.

 

And what I remember was dealers complaining about the test equipment they had to buy and train in '81, same year the IBM PC came out, most programs were in interpreted Basic (Gee-Whiz Basic came out and was marketted by some guy named Bill..) Around then my PC was a Data General Eclipse and was writing stuff for a Mil-Std-1750A.

 

Also was referring to finding the starter switch. In '70 had to get the Avis lady come out and show me where the key went but earlier a number of European cars had a lever between the seats - spent about a hour looking for the starter switch on a '50s Land Rover (between the seats but hidden - early theft prevention ?

 

(autocorrect not working - where is that Rabbit ?)

 

I am far from your Glee Club Mr Peterson, I am just trying to figure out what your trying to communicate with what appears to be random thoughts and statements. Getting defensive when someone asks for clarification is no way to be. Name calling someone who asks for a clarification indicates that you can not clarify your statement. I am not working overtime, looking for clarifications, but you have to admit that you just been more random than usual

 

By the way last time I checked it is not 1981, or 1970.  I suggest you do the same, 

 

Please clarify what you think the large dealer problem is, please? 

Edited January 14, 2021 by John348 (see edit history)

[Jerry with a Packard]

Yes to Pete and LaSalle. My first, immediate observation was that the new logo was less masculine. I may get in trouble here, but it is less bold and can I say "limp".

[wws944]

Dealer problem is they don't want to sell EVs, steer their customers away from even considering EVs, and get far less service revenue from EV owners.

 

Go to almost any Chevy dealer outside California and you'll see row after row of Silverados, SUVs, and Camaros.  If they have any Bolt EVs in stock, they'll likely be found in the back of the lot where no one ever goes.

 

We could also talk about the Cadillac dealers who are relinquishing their dealerships rather than tooling up to support GMs future plans.

 

On the service side, a Tesla mobile tech can do almost any mechanical repair in your driveway.

[PhilAndrews]

This is the best I can do with my fleet.

 

 

Really don't see what's wrong with the uppercase, unless it really doesn't mean General Motors any more, but the company is now gmmm. Gm? Gum? How do you say it now?

 

Phil

[padgett]

"almost any mechanical repair in your driveway" - not new. Probably make it easy to jack up the body and slide a refreshed "power module" underneath. What cars of the past had the same promise ? Tucker ?

 

ps soon to be 上汽通用

[John348]

1 minute ago, wws944 said:

Dealer problem is they don't want to sell EVs, steer their customers away from even considering EVs, and get far less service revenue from EV owners.

 

Go to almost any Chevy dealer outside California and you'll see row after row of Silverados, SUVs, and Camaros.  If they have any Bolt EVs in stock, they'll likely be found in the back of the lot where no one ever goes.

 

We could also talk about the Cadillac dealers who are relinquishing their dealerships rather than tooling up to support GMs future plans.

 

On the service side, a Tesla mobile tech can do almost any mechanical repair in your driveway.

 

I still call him a kid but is no longer a 'Kid" that I had I coached in football is a mobile tech for Tesla in Huntington Beach California. He has his degree and worked for Audi before being recruited by Tesla. I had seen him last year when he was visiting his family for the holidays. He said really nothing fails on them, no fluids to watch, maintenance is minimal, he finds it boring.

 

[John348]

18 minutes ago, padgett said:

"almost any mechanical repair in your driveway" - not new. Probably make it easy to jack up the body and slide a refreshed "power module" underneath. What cars of the past had the same promise ? Tucker ?

 

ps soon to be 上汽通用

 

Anything major they have dealerships who have lifts on retainer, they are not jacking cars up in driveways and using jack stands. What about people who do not have driveways? What about inclement weather? 

[wws944]

13 minutes ago, John348 said:

 

I still call him a kid but is no longer a 'Kid" that I had I coached in football is a mobile tech for Tesla in Huntington Beach California. He has his degree and worked for Audi before being recruited by Tesla. I had seen him last year when he was visiting his family for the holidays. He said really nothing fails on them, no fluids to watch, maintenance is minimal, he finds it boring.

 

 

I've had a mobile tech to my house twice in 2.5 years.  First time was for a sticky driver door handle.  Not a big enough deal to file a service request (via the Tesla app on my phone).  But one day I saw a tech servicing a Model X a couple blocks away.  He came by afterwards, said it was a common problem with the lubricant they used in early door handles.  He squirted some WD-40 in there and was on his way.  No problems since.  Second time was when I paid for an upgrade to the FSD (Full Self Drive) computer.  When the parts came in, a tech came by and did the upgrade.  Took him about 1.5 hours.

 

Besides that, all I've had done is tire rotation at a local tire shop.  And refilling windshield washer fluid - which I am still quite capable of doing myself.  😄