Terry Wiegand Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 Everyone, Larry Schramm and I have been talking about what grease everyone is using in their vehicles for the transmission u-joint. Looking at grease some of the selections we have seen is corn head grease which liquifies when worked, regular "CV" joint grease, and moly-graphite grease. Reading about each, they all have benefits and just OK benefits. Is there a consensus opinion which is the best grease to use today? I have attached links to some of the options below. Regards, Terry Wiegand Red Line CV-2 Synthetic Grease | Pegasus Auto Racing Supplies $13.95 Red Line CV-2 Synthetic Grease | Pegasus Auto Racing Supplies Red Line synthetic CV joint grease has extemely high load carrying capacity, excellent high-temperature properti... RCV Performance High Performance Synthetic Moly CV Grease $39.95 RCV Performance High Performance Synthetic Moly CV Grease RCV High Performance Synthetic Moly CV Grease is specially formulated synthetic grease for extreme applications,... CRC INDUSTRIES SL3174 STA-LUBE SL3174 - CONSTANT VELOCITY (CV) JOINT GREASE $11.69 CRC INDUSTRIES SL3174 STA-LUBE SL3174 - CONSTANT VELOCITY (CV) JOINT GREASE Granville 0168A 500g CV Grease – BigaMart Granville 0168A 500g CV Grease – BigaMart Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas -- _._,_._,_ Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#19358) | Reply To Group | Mute This Topic | New Topic BrassBuicks' Funding provided by LeatherPlates.com Visit www.leatherplates.com to learn more about leather license plates for car or man-cave display! Join the Horseless Carriage Club of America for only $19.15 for the first year! www.hcca.org/membership.php Major Credit Cards accepted on line. Your Subscription | Contact Group Owner | Unsubscribe [renobuickman@gmail.com] _._,_._,_ ReplyReply allForward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian_Heil Posted January 1, 2021 Share Posted January 1, 2021 (edited) None of the above. At least not in 1923. Not sure about other years. Does your lube chart call something out? Per the 1923 manual it is ‘automatically lubricated’ and I would agree. The rear ‘seal’ of the transmission allows transmission lube to make its way to the U-joint. Each time I have removed the U-joint boot, the joint itself has been well coated in transmission gear lube. No wear/play present in the joint either. I run the 600w lube from Snyder’s. They call it M533. It’s actually an EP Chevron product. Good stuff. Don’t get me started on bronze oxidation. Manufactures have been putting anti oxidation additives in for decades. As previously discussed this product is heavy enough to allow for proper gear shifting and does a good job of reaching the U-joint too. Anything heavier will channel and you will have limited lube at the spinning gears and possibly limited transfer/migration to the U-joint. I run it in the differential as well. Edited January 1, 2021 by Brian_Heil (see edit history) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Shaw Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 33 minutes ago, Brian_Heil said: Anything heavier will channel and you will have limited lube at the spinning gears and possibly limited transfer/migration to the U-joint. I run it in the differential as well. Good advice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian_Heil Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted January 2, 2021 Author Share Posted January 2, 2021 Brian, I'm pretty sure that I need to clarify some details about the universal joint on my '16 D-45. This joint is not connected to the internal gear oil of the transmission in any way. After I got everything disassembled and cleaned up I found that the joint was in remarkable condition. I also learned that it was a Spicer Universal Joint. The way that this u-joint is constructed is that there is a cover that fits over the entire joint and a tightening ring on the end to hold it in place. There is a pipe thread tapped hole on the side of the cover that allows for the cover to accept grease and then a headless slotted pipe plug is put into the threaded hole. Right now I am leaning toward using the John Deere Corn Head Grease for this application. When this stuff warms up a bit it becomes somewhat fluid, and I'm not sure that is the word I want to use here. When it cools it tends to stiffen up and stay put. I have not filled the joint as of this time. I want to wait and do that after the rear axle assembly is back in place under the car. The Reference Manual calls for using Soft Cup Grease in the Universal Joint. I am thinking that the oils, greases, and lubricants today are light years ahead of what was available back in the day. Here are a couple of photos that show the u-joint from the rear and the pipe plug on the side of the cover. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian_Heil Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 ASTM D130 is the test you want to note 1b rating is very good and that’s at 100 C temperature which we don’t run anywhere near. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian_Heil Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 Terry I was pretty sure yours was different. What does your lube chart say? If they recommend steam cylinder oil then I would fill with the above M533. If there are leak concerns then I would use the Penrite Steering Gear box lube. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian_Heil Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 The corn head grease actually is not affected by temperature but rather by ‘work’. It becomes more fluid when squeezed for a better term. Not sure how much of that is going on in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian_Heil Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thixotropy Thixotropic Also corn heads operate at relatively low speeds but most importantly have big gear sets that mix the lube and work it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzBob Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 Terry, that is certainly an interesting looking u-joint and gimbal assembly. Here is a link to NYE lubricants that gives a pretty good explanation with regards to grease consistency. https://www.nyelubricants.com/need-to-know-grease-consistency Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 Wow, totally different from my 1918. I have a torque ball that allows motion of the torque tube, not like that giant gimbal you have. Inside the torque ball is the much smaller U-joint for the drive shaft. There is no place to lubricate them, the torque ball is automatically lubricated by transmission oil. Not sure how the U joint for the drive shaft gets lubed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted January 2, 2021 Author Share Posted January 2, 2021 Bob, Thanks for providing that link. That just cinched it for me - the Corn Head Grease is what it will be. Here are some photos of the tube and specifications. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzBob Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 Corn Head Grease NLGI grade No. 0 looks like just the ticket for your u-joint lube. I see it is formulated not to leak during idle periods. From the Nye lubricants page. “NLGI grades 000 to 0. Grease within this NLGI range to continuously replenish the lubricant in the contact zone." 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArticiferTom Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 The ott greases should be right . Double ott NLGI rated is what is used in steering boxes . You can find at your Tractor Supply store , in by the tractor lift and drive shafts . Those look pretty similar to tractor shafts joints . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian_Heil Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 Still would be nice to know what the very comprehensive Buick Lube Chart and Manual call out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted January 2, 2021 Author Share Posted January 2, 2021 Brian, The Reference Manual calls for using Soft Cup Grease in the Universal Joint. I am not sure what a comprehensive Buick Lube Chart is? Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian_Heil Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted January 2, 2021 Author Share Posted January 2, 2021 OK. First time that I have ever seen anything like this. Just proves that a person can learn something new every day. Now, would you just happen to have one of those for the 1916 Buick Six? Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas aka Doo Dah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 (edited) This is dated Jan 1917 but only applies to the E-49 (and later E 6 models after Aug, 1917) Note torque ball, and no separate place to lube the U joint Edited January 2, 2021 by Morgan Wright (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian_Heil Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 Perhaps a better approach might have been ‘my 1916 calls for soft cup grease in the U-joint housing. What are others using in theirs?’ Terry, you have every Buick print for your car along with Walter Marr’s grocery list the day your car was made along with his 5th grade report card but no lubrications chart? I’m speechless. 😷😷😷 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian_Heil Posted January 2, 2021 Share Posted January 2, 2021 Agree that Shop Manual is a stretch. When I got my copy years ago I too was very disappointed. Almost like they didn’t want the average person servicing their Buick. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted January 2, 2021 Author Share Posted January 2, 2021 All, I think the issue has been cleared up for me at least. I'm going to go with the John Deere Corn Head Grease and not look back. For me at least, if Deere and Company says it's OK to use in/on their machinery, then it will be more than OK for me to use. Brian, one simply cannot argue with documentation. Happy New Year to you and Christine and Huck and Finn. Terry Wiegand Out Doo Dah Way 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Engle Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 My instruction manual for D-6 44&45 dated January 1, 1917 on the lubrication chart shows #19 lubrication point. UNIVERSAL JOINT - Steam Cylinder oil. Move car forward or backward until pipe plug in joint comes opposite the offset in the driving ring, then remove the plug and inject oil with a grease gun. Be sure the plug is put back securely. I agree with substituting corn head grease. I do favor the use of CV joint grease in many applications, but it is much more expense than Corn head grease. Bob Engle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian_Heil Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 My preference is the M533 and if leakage is a concern, the Penrite steering box lube. Migration is what gets the lube into the tight fits of the yoke bearings. Corn heads run ~300 RPM, our U-joint ~5 times that. I would be concerned with the corn head grease being thrown and stuck to the inner wall of the ball and not being worked and fluid and getting where it needs to be. I’d at least pack it fairly full so you know it’s in contact with the spinning joint and being worked and not just hanging on the walls. Channeling as it is known is a significant consideration in machinery lubrication design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted January 3, 2021 Author Share Posted January 3, 2021 Brian, That is exactly what I plan to do - put an Alemite fitting in and pump the joint as full as is possible with the Corn Head Grease. When I took that u-joint apart to clean things up there was evidence that that was exactly what had been done in the past. The old grease was about like tar. I had to let things soak overnight in gasoline before I could remove the residue. I have a Reference Manual for the 1917 Models 44 and 45 that is dated January 1, 1917 (same one that Bob has) and he is correct, it calls for using Steam Cylinder Oil in the u-joint. I also have a Reference Manual for the 1916 MODELS that is dated June 1, 1915 and that manual calls for using Soft Cup Grease in the u-joint. This manual is the one that I follow since I know that our car was built in the calendar year of 1915. This is interesting to say the least as to the reason for the change in about a year and a half. Brian, thank you for the information that you are providing with regard to lubrication application. This is how we all learn. You're the best. Terry Wiegand Way Out in Doo Dah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian_Heil Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 And very soon it went to ‘automatic’ lubrication. A design evolution that would suggest it did not get serviced often enough in the prior designs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morgan Wright Posted January 3, 2021 Share Posted January 3, 2021 1 hour ago, Brian_Heil said: And very soon it went to ‘automatic’ lubrication. A design evolution that would suggest it did not get serviced often enough in the prior designs. I think the E series were the first with the automatic lube: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Wiegand Posted January 4, 2021 Author Share Posted January 4, 2021 I was going through photos on another memory card and found this photo that I had taken of the u-joint before it went back on the transmission. This gives a better idea of the details as to how the cover on the back end is secured. There is a thick, heavy felt gasket that covers the back end of the body. The threaded ring clamp puts pressure on the cup to maintain the grease seal to the solid part of the body. I thought everyone would like to see what this looks like out in the open. Note the headless slotted plug that allows for the grease insertion with an Alemite or Zerk fitting. Terry Wiegand South Hutchinson, Kansas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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