The hardtop Chronicles

[Xander Wildeisen]

I thought I would share with you my trip to Idaho to purchase a Hudson parts car. And the construction of a removable hardtop, made from the parts car. I know this site is about restoration. But this is not about restoring, or modifying a top. It is about making something that was never available on a 1947 Hudson convertible. Hudson did not make a hardtop till 1951. I always thought that the 47 Hudson body style would look good in a hardtop design. And the convertible has the hardtop style windows. So it would be a good car to build a removable top for. Done in the style of a hardtop. Not wanting to alter the convertible, a top has to be built so the car can have the feature of two/both tops. A removable hard top, and a functional convertible top. Many of you have seen pictures of my 47 convertible (courtesy car) it is the perfect car to do this to. The car is modified. 354 Hemi, 700r4 transmission and a 1949 Hudson Commodore dash. The rest is all stock. With a very large body modification done. To repair the rotten convertible body, using a coupe body. I will post a few pictures every day to explain and show the progress. Feel free to comment on your thoughts about the way I did this. And your view on the finished product. This is what I have been doing while visiting and helping my parents over the holidays. Spotted the 47 Hudson parts car on Facebook market place. It was for sale in Twin falls Idaho. You drive through Twin falls on your way to Boise. So it made the purchase very easy with truck and trailers still here in Idaho. A quick search on ebay. And I was able to purchase hardtop quarter windows from a 53 Ford. Looked like they would work. Had them shipped to Idaho. Made a deal on the 47 sedan parts car. And hit the road in the 49 coupe. 640 miles, stopping in Twin falls on the way up to view the car. With plans to run back and pick up the car with the truck and trailer. Lots of pictures to come.

[58L-Y8]

For reference, during the late 1940's/early 1950's Coachcraft and other Southern California custom car companies built hardtops to attach to customized convertibles.   For some of those, sheet aluminum as the preferred material since the area was a hotbed of wartime aircraft production. 

Check the 'Automobile Tops' section for the companies whose business dealt in those: Coachbuilders, Coach Building, Coachbuilt Cars, Coachbuilding History, Encyclopedia, American Coach Builders & Coachwork, Carriages

You should also check out the prototype 1946 Chrysler Town & Country hardtop that Chrysler built seven of but then failed to bring to production.    Good luck with your project, I'll be following along with interest.  

[Dosmo]

If the iridescent glow of the dials on your Hudson’s instrument panel doesn’t make you pause, you may not be infected with the antique car bug.  Those Hudson dashboards were unlike anything else on the American automobile.

 

Looking at that photo showing the view down the road, you can just imagine your concentration going from looking at the road to looking at the instruments, making sure everything is right on the highway and inside the car.

 

That is a great looking coupe.

[Xander Wildeisen]

The 53 Ford hard top windows arrived a few days before I got here. Had to move cars around in my dad's shop. And get the truck and trailer ready to go and pick up the parts car. I am a few weeks into this already. So just back tracking with pictures and information. Fired up the convertible to move it, and do a quick test fit with the Ford quarter windows. They fit perfect. 

Edited December 29, 2020 by Xander Wildeisen (see edit history)

[padgett]

Agree a removable hardtop is a great addition to a 'vert, were very popular in the 60's particularly for English sporty cars. Hard to find nowadays. Of course then you need something to remove and replace so another project.

[58L-Y8]

What happened to the original quarter windows?  

[Xander Wildeisen]

They are part/ fixed to the convertible frame. Go up and down with the top. Have to stay part of the convertible top.

[58L-Y8]

I had always assumed those quarter windows could be cranked down separate from the top mechanism.  Hudson certainly took a different approach than other automakers of the day!

 

The Ford windows appear a good fit, you'll have to create removable extensions for the beltline and trim to go with the removable hardtop.  

Edited December 29, 2020 by 58L-Y8
Removable beltline extension with hardtop (see edit history)

[padgett]

Trivia: What car had two different sets of rear quarter windows ?

[Xander Wildeisen]

Not sure when different manufacturers had roll down quarter windows on their convertibles. I know a 46 Mercury had roll down windows. Hudson had a division bar/pillar. I thought this was very ugly. A lot of people paint it the body color, or the top color. It looks like a fence post in between the windows. Cord had a much better design with their quarter windows. Can't change anything with the stock top in order to do this. Removable top will be like a top for a 56 Corvette. Ford windows are a good choice, bigger than what is needed. So they can be cut down. Thought this would be a good DIY project for people to see. Total cost will be very low. Just wanted to show how scrap parts can be repurposed into something new. Will list parts and cost, so everyone can see how this can be done on a budget. With very few tools. Ford windows with shipping was around $90.00 dollars. If a customer is paying to have this done, the low cost part flies right out of those 90 dollar quarter windows.😂

[58L-Y8]

1941-'42 was the transition to convertibles with roll-down quarter windows from the blind quarter tops.  For Mopars, all 1941's except Plymouth that wouldn't until the new 1949 models.  Ford, Mercury and Lincoln-Zephyr did for 1942 except the Continental cabriolet.    GM across the board for 1942.  Packard didn't until the new 1948 models.  Studebaker wasn't producing convertibles during 1941-'42, which was a shame, would have the feature with their "First by far with a post-war car".  Nash dropped cabriolets after the 1941 models, did build a run of 1000 for 1948 which didn't have quarter windows, same as the pre-war models.  Willys had no convertibles in production since the early-1930's.   Graham and Hupmobile were staggering to a close in the automobile business, convertibles the least of their concerns, 

 

The Cord 910/812 convertible phaeton had a similar quarter window set up to the Hudsons, functionally part of the folding top mechanism.   While the Hudson work out might not be as elegant as others, its just one of the details that make their cars unique and interesting. 

[8E45E]

5 hours ago, padgett said:

Trivia: What car had two different sets of rear quarter windows ?

1990-'95 Olds Cutlass convertibles.

 

Craig

[padgett]

Not aware of the Olds, remember the 'vert with a styling hoop. Really had two pairs of quarter windows ?

[Xander Wildeisen]

A quick trip with the truck and trailer, and the parts car is in the shop. All of the trim was just laying in the car. I do not know how someone removed the trim. Some of it you could throw, and it might return to your hand. Must have got a running start before pulling the trim. No surprises in the car, just a sedan that has come to the end of the road. Normally you would pull measurements before cutting into something. In this case it just does not matter. Remove the roof in one piece. So the drip rail can be removed, and other usable pieces. The car will be picked clean of any usable items. And I will try to pass along any unwanted parts over scraping them. Placed the roof on a stand, to start taking it apart. There are easier ways to remove the dome light from a car.

[58L-Y8]

That's a good roof shell to use, the shapes are already familiar and associated with Hudson so your finished top will look as if it could be a factory prototype of the concept.   Designing in the context of the period avoids the pitfall that besets so many custom projects i.e. a mish-mash of styles and design periods that obviously clash. 

 

A suggest you might consider: since the rear fenders from your donor car appear in good condition, open the wheel-wells to match the front fenders.  When the car is painted, do those along with the car in the same color so they can be swapped out for a different, sportier look when the spirit moves.  

Edited December 30, 2020 by 58L-Y8
Edited out that word 'modify" (see edit history)

[Xander Wildeisen]

I will give that some thought.🤔 Remember, this is not about modifying the car. (Language warning) https://youtu.be/LARx7M9s15w

 

[Xander Wildeisen]

With the roof flipped over. I need to remove everything that is not part of the outside skin. Drip rails are removed by drilling out the spot welds. Some more of the outside skin has to be removed in the back. In order to get the drip rail out in one piece. Upper door jam has to be cut off. It is spot welded to the return fold on the outer skin. Saving as much of this return fold as possible. I will need to weld the new upper door jam to this later. The windshield header structure is removed by cutting it free from the side. It is welded and covered in lead where it blends in with the outer skin on the front door pillar. I then ground down the pinch weld that forms the windshield opening. This removes all of the spot welds. And leaves the rolled shape of the windshield opening on the outer skin. Remove headliner bows. Back window opening will stay part of the outer skin, and will not be touched. The back half of the roof still has part of the rear shelf/package tray on it. As well as part of the trunk hinge braces. These will be left for now, and removed later. The remaining piece of the package tray might help the back half set on the convertible body. Just don't know how it will fit at this point. Stripped down to just the outside skin. 

[Xander Wildeisen]

Here is a picture of the windshield header structure. You can see slots in this piece. Those are for the garnish rail screws. Not sure how many other car manufacturers did this. If you have installed garnish rails, and have had trouble finding the screw hole. This design solves that problem. 

[Xander Wildeisen]

Find what you think is the best spot to cut the roof in half. Most of the time you would do this at the widest part. No point in bracing the roof. What shape would you be trying to hold it to? Cut it in half, and set the front piece on the car. I have a strip of plywood sitting on top of the side windows to support the roof skin. Place the back half of the roof on the convertible. Now you can see how well the pieces fit. Just a light coat of body filer down the middle to smooth out where the two pieces come together.😆

[Xander Wildeisen]

At this point, how the two pieces come together does not matter. Just makes for good pictures. In order to know how the pieces will fit together. You first have to build the top. Start by getting each piece to fit the body the best you can. With the front half placed over the windshield, you can get a decent gap above the side windows. Leave that half alone for now, and move to the back half. Bouncing back and forth and getting each piece to fit better, you will see the center of the roof start to line up.

[Xander Wildeisen]

In these pictures you can see the back half is setting on what is left of the trunk hinge braces. Also the sides are having to be pulled out in order to fit over the body and tack strip. Both halves still have the return lip on them. This will not be needed on the back half. When opening up the back half to fit over the body. It puts tension on the roof skin. By cutting off this return, it will allow the roof to flex. The bottom edge needs to be shortened all the way around. Back half is removed, trunk braces removed and lower portion is trimmed up. Not cutting off the return on the roof skin yet.

Edited January 6, 2021 by Xander Wildeisen (see edit history)

[Xander Wildeisen]

With the back half fitting the body the best it can right now. Jump back and do the same with the front half. With the front half setting on top of the windshield frame you can see the gap/angle it creates above the side windows. Measuring the amount of height in the windshield frame above the windshield. Is a good guess as to how much has to be cut off the front of the roof. This is an 1 1/4. Cut this out. And tack roof skin to windshield frame to hold it in place while cutting windshield pillar area to fit.

[Dosmo]

That's an interesting project - I'm enjoying looking at the photos, showing the process of getting the roof sections aligned, stretching the metal where needed, and explaining what some of the next likely steps are going to be.

 

In a way, it reminds me of some episodes I've seen of the show "Full Custom Garage" on the Motor Trend Channel.  Don't take that the wrong way - I'm not, in any way, comparing what you're doing to what happens on that show.  But, the idea of placing the separate roof sections on the car, and then stepping back to ponder the next step, is similar to what I've seen on that show.

 

A big plus in the interesting department for me is that you're using a pre-step down Hudson as the subject of your efforts.  I'm a big fan of the less common antique cars.

 

Kudos!

[cheezestaak2000]

everytime a Hudson gets saved, an angel gets their wings.

 

[Xander Wildeisen]

Looking back over the years. I am not sure I have contributed to the angel population very much. A moment of silence should be taken for the fallen Hudson sedan.😇

Edited January 20, 2023 by Xander Wildeisen (see edit history)

[John S.]

Interesting project. A lot of cutting and shaping. 

[padgett]

Was wondering if top was getting chopped, think Ian did a Packard 4-door but essentially made it a fastback.

ps wouldn't that be "an angel gets their wheels" ?

[Xander Wildeisen]

The convertible is not chopped. And is not being modified. Some chopping/sectioning is being done to the roof to make the hard top. Looking at it right now. A lot to show and explain before you see how it sits now. More pictures tomorrow. 

[Xander Wildeisen]

With the front half of the roof reshaped to fit the windshield frame. And tacked in place, jump back to the back half. Back piece is all ready fitting the body, and just clamped in place, no need for tack welds at this time. Next is to cut off the return lip from the back half. This is what the drip rail used to attach to. By cutting this off, it will allow the roof skin to flex and open up a little. Next is to cut away more of the side. This should be done the same side to side. It will allow the back half to flex and open up. When chopping a top, you normally do not cut out so much material and support from the roof. This roof is no where close to matching this body. And you will see how much has to change to get the roof to match the curve of the body. As the front half is being placed on and off the car. I am checking the shape of the roof in relation to the curve of the body. I will show this later when transferring the body curve to the new upper door/quarter window jam. That will be the new shape of the roof. With the sides cut out a little more, you can see it has allowed the roof to flex and line up better with the front half. Also notice that there are no braces installed. The roof is just floating. It is supported, but holding it's own shape. Braces can work against you by putting tension on things as they go together. They will be installed later. Next I will cut down the quarter window. This is based on height of the side window and length of the opening.

[Xander Wildeisen]

The roof has gone from this.

[Xander Wildeisen]

To this. With just back and forth trimming of the pieces. More will be cut out of the back later.

[SC38dls]

This is great to see and have the detail description to match the pics. It’s looking good. Thanks for doing this thread as it is enjoyable to watch someone that knows what they are doing. 
dave s 

[Xander Wildeisen]

Kind of you to say. It's not hard to do. You just need to pay attention to the next steps. And watch for clearance issues on things, and spacing needed. It would be nice to have a rotten old convertible top still on the frame. But spacing can be provided for things like tack strips, top material and hammer on welting. Fun to do, very little cost involved. If you screw up, you scrap it. Still have the convertible top.

[TexRiv_63]

Very interesting and complex project, I'm subscribed.

 

[Xander Wildeisen]

Please send subscription dues, in care of Xander Wildeisen.😆 https://youtu.be/DKtjBqJ4NxA

 

[Xander Wildeisen]

I thought I would show a few pictures of the top, and explain what is going on. After cutting off the return lip and opening up the side a little. It allowed me to place the back half under the front half. This could not be done before because of the angle that the two halves came together. By sliding the back half in the front half, and the width difference between the two half's. I was able to get the front corners of the back half. To sit on the return lip of the front half. This was then putting tension on the front half. Forcing it to want to spread open. That then wants to pull down the roof skin. Basically pinching the back half inside the front half. The roof can not sag in the middle. It is in a bind, and held together by tension. Tack welded on the front, clamped on the back. And floating with no braces or supports. A person could walk around the car and get a good look at what the roof was doing, and showing. About what shape it naturally wanted to take. Pressure in the middle, transfers to the back piece on the curve. I could not do this once I cut more out of the sides in the back. It would buckle in the back on the curve. Standing back a person could get a good idea how much more had to be cut out. To form a new shape to the roof sides as they come down to meet what will be the new upper door/window jam. Roof needs to get a lot wider in the back. Front half is good to the back of the door window. I will pull it apart now, and jump back to the front piece.

 

[Xander Wildeisen]

With the roof still on you can sit in the car and see what is going on above the windshield. You can see the guide pin for the convertible top is touching the roof skin once a base plate is made, and a seal is under the base plate. It will clear.

[SC38dls]

Like I said beautiful work and a great explanation that even I can understand. Thanks. 

[Xander Wildeisen]

I started building the front header area by cutting up the original one from the roof. All ready has the shape you need. Split it in half, did some trimming. And you could hold it in place to check for fit and clearance with a good fit on the inside. It is safe to cut the front tacks, remove the roof, and start building the header area/panel.

[Xander Wildeisen]

Cut the tacks on the front and remove the roof pieces. Pulling back the front half. The original header piece can be placed right on the top of the windshield frame. I know how in fits on the inside, but could not tell how it fit the shape of the windshield frame. With the roof out of the way, you can see the fold/return edge does not lay flat on the top of the frame. Just cut the center, and bend down the fold till it sets flat on the surface. The base plate that will be made, will sit flat and have the same shape. So this piece will sit on top of the base plate.