Used Cars pre WWII era

[Walt G]

It is difficult for me to refile a lot of material in my collection in the proper location in my library so I can find it again without glancing through it. I have read all of it but that is over a period of 5 decades. Here is another topic that really deserves a story in a print publication (on line is great but I am 'old school' enough to like to read a magazine while sitting in front of the fireplace this time of the year! Hard to manage a computer on ones lap - no I don't have and won't have a lap top) , where a nice periodical with coated stock paper pages so you can clearly see the photographs is still a great joy probably to some of us here.

Anyway The Jones Motor Company was an active Packard dealer with three locations : 950 High Street in Pottstown, 322 W. Main Street in Norristown, and Bridge and Church Streets in Spring City  , Pa.  For the new Packards they promoted and sold they would take "used cars" in on trade, some not more then a few years old. this is the rear page of a folder they issued and sent out in 1928. With their promotion of selling you a new car they note " Your present car will be accepted in trade"  There are several other pages of photographs of used cars for sale like this one in the folder , again I wish there was room in a print publication but the pages in our club magazine are not available.

 

[John_S_in_Penna]

This topic has the potential to be very 

interesting, Walt.  I need to look up the 

original prices of these cars, but it appears

that depreciation was rapid.  I have seen old

ads that imply that 2-wheel-brake cars

lost a lot of value--were considered outdated

or almost obsolete--after 4-wheel-brake cars

became available.

 

Which cars in the 1928 era held their values best?

 

 

Edited December 21, 2020 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[Walt G]

John, this Kelley Blue Book reference dates from Nov-Dec. 1937 so is a little late to include your Locomobile, but it gives and idea of what drastic slashes in price took place as a result of the Great Depression. Interesting to see what the price of the car sold new for and what it was valued at wholesale . I have a few other brand used care value books of an earlier era . Another topic for a story, with an author to also take the time to find period photographs of some of the cars listed just so the reader can get an idea of how a $7000 car new , several years later was worth $100. I have way to many ideas . I do the same with the local history of the village I reside in and where I am the appointed historian as recognized and certified by the state annually. ( yes it is a bit of a process- signing documents that you agree to serve etc. ) To many ideas on how to recognize buildings that in 1929 started life as a local stationary and newspaper and magazine store and is now a restaurant. 

Walt

[Grimy]

OUCH!  Walt, can you give us the date of the Packard dealer's ad in your original post?  I'll take that Loco 48 Victoria for $20 in your Nov-Dec 1937 KBB!

[Billy Kingsley]

Based on the pictures alone that Nash Advanced Six Sedan would be my choice. 

 

That's a lot of miles for a year old car on both those Nashes. I was under the impression that traveling long distances in that time period was difficult, but perhaps that's a myth? 

[John_S_in_Penna]

1 hour ago, Walt G said:

John, this Kelley Blue Book reference dates from Nov-Dec. 1937... Interesting to see what the price of the car sold new for and what it was valued at wholesale.

 

Walt, I've glimpsed something of the Depression's

effect on used luxury cars, but I didn't realize it was

quite that drastic.  Locomobiles, priced new at $10,000

or $12,000, worth $15 or $20 only 8 or 9 years later!

Automotive advancements rendered them outdated

faster then, too, in addition to the economic effects.

 

I had thought once of doing such an article--the vast

depreciation of luxury cars--with data I would try to find 

from old N.A.D.A. books in the AACA Library--but I never

did that article.

 

[Walt G]

George, The Packard folder is from 1928 . I love stuff like this, it puts a whole new perspective on cars of that era and what a normal everyday car buyer then could expect to see. By the way there are 10 pages of used car values , body styles etc. like this just on Pierce Arrow alone. the years covered are 1930-1937 both the 8 and 12 cylinder cars. It lists Paige as well for 1923 to 1928 - all valued ( sedans) at $20 but one at $10.

I enjoy coming up with topics to post here that draw out comments from people reading them because it makes them think - what if? about what was..............................

😁 Is everybody happy?!!!

Walt

[John_S_in_Penna]

53 minutes ago, Billy Kingsley said:

That's a lot of miles for a year old car on both those Nashes. I was under the impression that traveling long distances in that time period was difficult, but perhaps that's a myth? 

 

Billy, I didn't see any mileages listed for those

used cars.  Am I not seeing something?

 

By the late 1920's, the highway-building movement

was in full force.  Many highways, formerly dirt,

were being paved.  And it was at that time that the

federal highway numbering system was adopted.

One 1928 survey I read about said that most people

didn't travel at more than 45 miles per hour.

So the capability for long-distance travel was just

beginning at that time;  most people still took trains

if they were going a long distance.

[Graham Man]

You are going to have to put a caveat on the 1930 till WW2 used cars, remember in 1933 with 25%+ unemployment you could not give a used car away.  My guess is the dealers would take the cars in on trade just to sell the new ones, most likely thy scrapped them to get them off the market.  The car repositions in the early 1930s were appalling.

The Quarterly Journal of Economics; February 1999

 

Total cars purchased in 1932 (new and used)  24,391,000 so for 1932 alone 10.4% is approximately 2,536,664 repossessed cars in 1932

 

For comparison the 2017 the repossession rate in the US was 1.2%

Edited December 21, 2020 by Graham Man (see edit history)

[Walt G]

At an AACA annual meeting some decades ago when they were still held at the Belview Stratford Hotel there were some b & w films shown of cars being scrapped in the mid 1930s - 5 year old cars being driven in to a wrecking yard. the gas drained out of the gas tank and then to gut the car with little effort to get the scrap metal a lighted bottle of gas was tossed in an open window and the sedan would burn up and rid the car of interior and a lot of the structural woodwork . That was pretty hard to watch and a lot of groans came up from the audience present looking at it.  This had to be in the very early 1970s the films were shown because I used to attend the annual meetings with Austin Clark and would assist him and former AACA President George Norton conduct the x rated truck seminar ( yes they really were) . George Norton was a really great guy, was fond of telling the audience he was the owner of the only Cosgrove V-7 car ever built, perhaps it was a 1909 or? . 

[8E45E]

More NADA listings here------------>   Prewar Studebaker Prices nosediving! - Studebaker Drivers Club Forum

Craig

[1937hd45]

Thanks Walt, Those Truck Seminars were Classic, too bad they were never recorded. Bob 

[padgett]

Billy: "The direct predecessor to US 1 was the Atlantic Highway, an auto trail established in 1911 as the Quebec-Miami International Highway. " Even that early a snowbird (or their chauffeur) could put a lot of miles on a car. Today I like the Amtrac AutoTrain.

[Billy Kingsley]

In the original photo Walt scanned it says almost 9000 miles on the Light Six. I got distracted while typing and when I came back to it I didn't look again and thought they said mileage on the Advanced Six.

 

 

 

[LI_BENTLEY]

I bought a 1927 Advanced 6 Nash four door sedan just like the one pictured for $75.00 in 1958.  Great car drove it for 12 years. My first antique car.

[Walt G]

OK, one more page from the 1928 Packard used cars folder issued by the Jones Motor Company of Pa. and from the 1937 Kelley Blue Book

Edited December 22, 2020 by Walt G
correction to text (see edit history)

[58L-Y8]

Consider how rare a 1931 Pierce-Arrow Model 41 Salon Series Club Sedan by LeBaron was to begin with and how low its value had fallen in only six years.  Then five plus years on, how little value it had at all during wartime, its a wonder any examples still exist!

 

Thanks Walt for the look at these pages, they certainly put things in context.  For resale value retention, that would be found at the low-priced, popular makers end of the market.  As Walter Chrysler said: "Look at All Three!" "Plymouth is your best value!"

[Graham Man]

 

1931 Pierce-Arrow Model 41 convertible sedan....  yes I would pay the full $160, I suppose the WW add an extra $5

 

[Rusty_OToole]

Tom McCahill spoke of buying a new Locke body Chrysler Imperial 80 roadster in New York in 1928 and driving it to Palm Beach Florida for the winter. He said in those days you never saw a traffic cop south of Washington DC. He made this trip by auto many times including once, in WW2, in a Ford V8 running on kerosene. He said it wasn't the fastest trip he ever made but it was restful.

 

It is true that trains were most popular for long distance travel but some people made long trips by car.

[Graham Man]

My 1929 Graham-Paige 827 was purchased used in Massachusetts in 1952 and used to make the trip back and forth to Rochester MN (1200 miles, each way).  He was going to school to be a doctor, the car made at least 4 documented trips, he and the Graham-Paige ended up staying in MN.

 

[1935Packard]

This is a really interesting issue.  The Depression had something to do with the almost-free prices, although my sense is that it was also generally common for cars to lose their values super quickly in an age when cars didn't last long.  We've had threads on this before, including this one I started in 2009 about values in 1942, for what it's worth.

 

 

Edited December 22, 2020 by 1935Packard (see edit history)

[Big Beat]

Here's the average life of a car back then - from March 1932 issue of Popular Mechanics.

[8E45E]

On 12/22/2020 at 4:41 AM, 1935Packard said:

This is a really interesting issue.  The Depression had something to do with the almost-free prices, although my sense is that it was also generally common for cars to lose their values super quickly in an age when cars didn't last long.  We've had threads on this before, including this one I started in 2009 about values in 1942, for what it's worth.

 

 

One must also remember technology and refinement made significant leaps between 1925 and 1935.  A ten year old car in 1935 was truly obsolete.   With few exceptions, a typical 1925 car, 45mph was a comfortable cruising speed, and not many wanted to travel any faster, given the roads of the time, anyway.  Fast-forward to 1935, the majority of the cars could easily go 60 mph all day without complaint on much improved roads and new paved highways like Route 66 that was designed for fast, long distance travel.  Henry's V8, and the advent of the overdrive transmission contributed to higher cruising speeds at a lower price which made it affordable to the average motorist.  

 

Today, many are now accustomed to seeing 20 year old cars on the road with still shiny paint jobs without much rust showing and mechanically sound with much better lubricants being used.

 

Craig

Edited December 24, 2020 by 8E45E (see edit history)

[padgett]

In central Florida am used to seeing 30-40 and an occasional 50 year old car in nice condition.

[Frank DuVal]

Same here, Padgett. I was so disappointed on my first trip to California and Arizona around 10 years ago. I see more 40/50 year old cars running as daily drivers

around here, as rusty as they may be, than on my trips west.

 

 

Tom McCahill must not have taken Rt 1 south of DC, as Colonial Heights is on Rt 1 below Richmond, above Petersburg. They were well known as a speed trap. My father said it was because they had Model Ts with the overhead valve conversion. Unsuspecting "Yankees" would see the Model T police cars, laugh and drive above the 35 MPH limit. thinking they were safe. Woops!! Lots of revenue for the locals from that. I recall the last AAA TripTik I saw still had the rubber stamp of Speed Trap on Colonial Heights. What's a TripTik? Well, youngsters, before GPS....😁

 

[padgett]

Woodbine Georgia was the big one down Souf, the AAA put a warning in their triptiks. BTW they do still exist, just a downloadable .pdf now. See https://triptik.aaa.com/home/index.html

[Walt G]

Here is a page from a small booklet issued by the Hotel Woodward in NY City that in 1918 - 1919 was given out to customers so they could locate and know the makes, models, series, body styles and prices for cars for sale in the NY City area. The three makes shown here would not be in existence nor being made a decade later. Interesting booklet as it gives all the addresses of where the cars were being sold and who were the managers/salesmen etc. A great research tool for automobile historian types about location and who moved around assorted companies to work where over the decades . 32 pages of cars and data , plus a great history of "Automobile Row" in NY City at the beginning and who developed that in this major city. Some very familiar names to be seen long associated with other makes later in their career. It would make a great story for a publication  Some very obscure cars sold new in 1919 and all had showrooms in Manhattan! Note the huge differences in price at the time. Think of what people were making per day for a wage, or the total per week.

Edited December 27, 2020 by Walt G
added text (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

On 12/25/2020 at 12:11 AM, Frank DuVal said:

What's a TripTik?

 

A.A.A. still prepares Trip Tiks.  I've never ordered one,

that I can recall, but I appreciate their excellent maps.

 

Sorry to get a bit off-topic.  Thank you all for the

excellent thread.

 

Edited December 28, 2020 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)