Interesting decision this morning... what do I drive today?

[1935Packard]

Ed, here's my question.  You have access to very rare cars that are very valuable.  Purely from a driving standpoint, how different are they to drive from cars that other folks here might reasonably hope to drive of either the same brand and year or at least relatively similar?  For example, how different is a 1931 Cadillac v16 roadster from a 1931 Cadillac 8 sedan?  A Packard 12 Dietrich from a Packard 8 of the same year?   Curious if you see as all relatively similar, or no comparison, from a driving perspective.  

[AL1630]

2 hours ago, Xander Wildeisen said:

Idaho grinds up people's dignity and self worth. Then it spreads that over the roads. Nice and course if you are a non believer in the conformity Kool aid.😆 Only collector car driving in the snow, that I noticed driving home. Started coming down around noon.

You may hate life, but at least your car won't rust out! I saw a couple antique cars on the road in Boise yesterday, but it seems like as soon as the snow flies the garage doors stay shut until March/April.

[edinmass]

Interesting question.........and I think the answer to your question can be determined by auction hammer prices. Sounds simple........but in reality it’s not. It takes a long time being exposed to truly great cars to get your head around them......and understand them......in a literal sense that very few people have experienced. There are very few great cars......the total 100 percent package. Why does a 34 1108 Dietrich Custom sell for more than most Duesenbergs? Plain fact........a Model J is the best American car ever made.......... except in a few instances. Chassis, power plant, and body very, very seldom come all together to make what one would describe as a “wow” car. A Model J Murphy Disappearing Top Roadster is the ultimate mass produced “wow” car. But while nearly perfect..........a Packard 1108 will bring more money.......because it’s better in style, fit, and finish............with adequate power. Not the excess power one gets from a Model J. Simply put.....the Packard is more refined, smooth, and comfortable. Personally, I would take the J. Maybe another way to look at it is.........

 

Take the top ten super models of all time, and at the height of their career.........place them side by side. While we would all agree they are beautiful...........one of the ten will speak to us more than the other. There are things in this world that are impossible to define..........what makes the one you choose speak to you? Hair color, height, body shape, personality, education, or a thousand other little details?  It’s the entire package that comes into consideration. Often times, there is no one “right” answer. Would an 18 year old choose the same one twenty five year later with more life experience? As I stand looking in some of the worlds best collections......and instantly I can tell if the owner really understands cars. There are really only about 20 great collections in the US. There are hundreds of very nice collections. Mature taste is when a collector only has what he likes.....and to hell with the rest of them. Of the top five collections in the Western Hemisphere, I expect only two would be familiar to most people. There are some fantastic garages that almost no one ever gets to see..........

 

What does every fantastic collection include?

 

1934 Packard 12 Individual Custom.......LeBaron or Dietrich.

Model J Duesenberg.......a GOOD one, not a run of the mill car. 

Diversified other great platforms with one off or small batch customs. Also, an example of the Following:

 

V-16 Cadillac (Common but great car.)

Rolls PI, PII, & PIII (PII & PIII are cross overs.)
 

Perhaps also some of the cars below........

DV-32 Stutz

Pierce 12

Auburn SC 

Lincoln KB

 

Then the obscure.............

Cunningham

Doble

McFarlin

Simplex

American Fiat

Crane Simplex
Chadwick

Mercer

Locomobile

ect

 

The first truly great cars started in 1906 or 1907. The last great car was built in the us in 1936 or 1937.

 

 

I have kept the list limited to American cars to make it easier to relate too. There are many great foreign cars also.

I think to have a truly great collection of cars, you need to own between fifteen and thirty cars. Any less and your most likely going to be missing some things.

Edited December 14, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

Ed isn’t it like asking who was the better price fighter Rocky Marciano, Muhammad Ali, or Joe Louis? They were all great in their era and way of fighting. Would have been great to see them against each other in their prime. 
dave s 

[edinmass]

 

Examples of cars that are seldom seen, that would belong in a great collection. The Pierce is a 1931 Salon Series factory body with a design by Durham. It's on a 147 inch chassis. 385 CID, 150 hp. The Cunningham is a C-7 I think.....from 1929. V-8, something like 440CID, 145 inch chassis. These cars exist.........but are almost never seen. Locked away for decades in great collections. 

 

 

 

 

Edited December 14, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

9 hours ago, edinmass said:

Ok Matt.......did you know it, or did you have to look it up. It’s a pretty obscure reference! 

 

 

If this Twinkie is the number of times normal people have watched that movie, then the number of times I have seen it would be represented by a Twinkie 35 feet long and weighing approximately 600 pounds.

[SC38dls]

Matt if you ate a Twinkie that size your hands would make Phil’s look small. 

[edinmass]

Here is a typical Long clutch issue car..............a 1929 Stutz at Pebble three years ago, owned by a good friend from India. The car was restored very well.......and was a class winner at PB. It suffered partial clutch failure on the tour. One of the principals of the show called me and asked if I was familliar with Stutz cars...........and I said sure. He said how about the clutch? I responded I installed one last month. I didn't realize it was for a car that I had sold parts to the owner, and rebuilt the steering box, and built a Stromberg carburetor for. I was great to service a car from half way around the world that I helped out with doing components and making parts. The car came in on the hook.........we did a parking lot repair and got it shifting again. He was able to drive on the field, and up to the awards stand, and back onto the field. Even though they have very good people working on the car in India, there is NOTHING like experiance working on cars. The learning curve is steep on the exotics and everyone thinks it's "just an old car".........well, they aren't impossible to fix, but they sure take time and money. Doing something over on a car is just part of normal restoration and repair. You have to be willing to keep doing the fix until its perfect..........I have had the same clutch in and out of a car several times till it was right..............no one gets every repair correct the first time, no one. 

[padgett]

a: " last great car was built in the us in 1936 or 1937." If by "great" you mean "big", I would agree.

b: the difference between an engineer (or other profession) and a SME is the SME will make fewer misteaks.

[60FlatTop]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

. Doing something over on a car is just part of normal restoration and repair. You have to be willing to keep doing the fix until its perfect...

 Julio said "The level of perfection one can achieve is directly proportional to the number of times they are willing to do it over". It took a couple of decades for me to learn "willing" was the key word.

 

Many will vary on the importance of details, giving less credence to some skills than others.

 

The test for making coffee is an excellent example. If there are ten steps to making coffee and you forget the water, will you get a 90%? Not around here Kiddo!

[1935Packard]

10 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

 

 

 

 

That Cunningham is beautiful.  Perfect proportions.  I don't get the idea of having a car and locking it away in a collection, but whoever has that is very lucky indeed. 

[edinmass]

1 hour ago, 1935Packard said:

 

That Cunningham is beautiful.  Perfect proportions.  I don't get the idea of having a car and locking it away in a collection, but whoever has that is very lucky indeed. 

 

I agree, parking it makes no sense. And it’s an absolutely fantastic truck.

[edinmass]

9 hours ago, padgett said:

a: " last great car was built in the us in 1936 or 1937." If by "great" you mean "big", I would agree.

b: the difference between an engineer (or other profession) and a SME is the SME will make fewer misteaks.

 

Anything post 1937 is unappealing and production...........fun, yes, serves a valuable purpose, yes. But interesting or appealing...........call me guilty of being a car snob.............just a used car. Blame it on AJ........😇

[SC38dls]

Ed I think you missed it by a year- post 1938 instead of 37!  
I may be slightly prejudice on the year. 
dave s 

[edinmass]

Ok Dave........I must admit that a Packard Darrin doesn’t fall into that bracket. What in 1938 is worth owning.......my old Brunn Lincoln as a neat car.

[SC38dls]

I like and drive my 38 State Commander Studebaker as a daily driver. I usually have two blondes in the back seat and my wife of 50 years doesn’t mind!  Do you do that on a regular basis? It was the Art Deco car of the year in 38!  If you have to stick to the 37 date I can live with that as my beast was manufactured Aug 27, 1937 so it still fits your definition!  
dave s 

[padgett]

1938

[Grimy]

1 hour ago, SC38DLS said:

Ed I think you missed it by a year- post 1938 instead of 37!  
I may be slightly prejudice on the year. 
dave s 

Yes, Pierce-Arrow's last year model was 1938--and Ed should know that!

[edinmass]

46 minutes ago, Grimy said:

Yes, Pierce-Arrow's last year model was 1938--and Ed should know that!

I wasn’t thinking in terms of series of cars.........but the last “new” stuff.  The photo of that silver MG does nothing for me.............or is it an SS.........they look so much alike. 🤭

[Gary_Ash]

Ed, I'd like to believe that since 1937 there have been more than a few cars that would meet the standards of great design, good engineering, custom assembly, and special appeal.  I'd start with the 1956 Lincoln Continental Mark II, but there must be others even newer.  I'd throw in the 1947 Packard Custom Super Clipper sedans, a 1957 Cadillac Eldorado Brougham, and I need to think of a few foreign cars like the Mercedes W189 and 600, all meeting the standards of luxury, performance, and (hopefully) comfort.  We can ignore the Italian racers.  

[edinmass]

I should have mentioned limited production............very few cars post 1937 or 1938 were all the aforementioned and limited in production. Hand built cars just about fell off a cliff in 1936. Lots of post war cars were well designed and engineered.............but the term “rare” almost never applies. The Mark II was quite unusual in that it certainly was an attempt to throw back to the old days of hand built cars.......what was it’s production numbers? The stainless Caddy’s have always been a favorite of mine.......but my guess is they will never win any styling awards. Reality is bespoke automobiles died a slow and lingering death.......and what came at the end wasn’t the high watermark of design.

 

Also, to be fair........the Post War Bentley R type (1950-1956) is considered by many sophisticated collectors to be one of the best cars ever built regardless of year. I haven’t been around them enough to make a fair observation. They easily sell into seven figures.......which says a lot about what they are.

 

 

 

Edited December 15, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[padgett]

" Bentley R type (1950-1956)" - I'm a sucker for a fastback (R-Continental) and sixes. One of my family's friends had one.

SS-100 has no problem with a 70 mph cruise and to me is better looking than a XK-120.

Where I grew up there were more European sporty cars than Corvettes. Friends had all sorts of things (DKW was dangerous: too easy to burn yourself on the cig lighter).

 

[A. Ballard 35R]

On the early end of your range of years, the 1905 Packard meets your criteria. One of the very few 4 cylinder American cars made in 1905 and had a transaxle, transverse front spring spring, distributor, with models ranging up to $4,600. Having driven one of these many hundreds of miles I can attest to their incredible reliability and ability to cruise effortlessly at 50 mph.

[SC38dls]

Ed it is now Tuesday and we have only seen the hood of one beautiful car. You said you had to exercise a whole bunch of cars this week! So get with it and post a hood shot of each one you are allowed to show. A lot of us less fortunate souls live vicariously thru those that get to enjoy and be around so many classic cars. So get with it damn it!

dave s 

 

PS - yes I am usually a pain in the ass to many.

 

[edinmass]

3 hours ago, A. Ballard 35R said:

On the early end of your range of years, the 1905 Packard meets your criteria. One of the very few 4 cylinder American cars made in 1905 and had a transaxle, transverse front spring spring, distributor, with models ranging up to $4,600. Having driven one of these many hundreds of miles I can attest to their incredible reliability and ability to cruise effortlessly at 50 mph.

 

 

I have seen and closely went over a 1905 Packard........I agree...........but by 1906 across the board many more cars make the list. One can always pick an exception to the rule. Upon seeing a 1905 Packard for the first time.......I commented to the owner.......wow, its actually a car, not a horseless carriage. He smiled and replied positively  to me, suprised a young guy actually realized what his car was. 

[John_S_in_Penna]

4 hours ago, SC38DLS said:

A lot of us less fortunate souls live vicariously...

 

Dave, please don't consider yourself less fortunate

in any manner.  I enjoy my commonplace '78 Lincoln

as much as my Locomobile, and I'd enjoy seeing a

1976 Buick Electra probably more than a Duesenberg.

And the Electra is more comfortable!

 

Take a cue from young children, perhaps.  When you

go out to ice cream, for instance, they don't care

whether they're riding in a Marmon V-16, a Ford

Model T, or a 1969 Mercury.  They're not pretentious.

They are just as pleased with the experience--the family,

the dog, and the ice cream--regardless of which

old car you take.

[SC38dls]

John- I'm very fortunate! All I have to do is say lets go for a ride and Gracie and Sophia are at the car waiting. I enjoy looking at them as much as riding in them. There are a number of classics I will probably never own or ever get to drive unless I win the lottery. But that's OK and besides I would have to buy a ticket to do that and the odds are against me.   Ed has a number of cars he gets to drive, work on and enjoy to some extent and he has always been good enough to share his experiences.  Besides it's fun just to raddle his cage once in a while.  

dave s