1937 Packard 12Series 1507 5-Passenger Sedan for sale on BaT

[George Cole 1,093]

This must be the same one which was discussed several weeks ago with a seized 12 cylinder engine.  It's owned by the IMS Museum.  Bidding is at $12.5k and closes tomorrow afternoon.

 

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1937-packard-fifteen-series-twelve/

[trimacar 3,515]

Doesn’t the phrase “seized 12 cylinder engine” just send chills up your spine?

 

[bdc 324]

No that's a bankruptcy waiting to happen.

[1950panhead 148]

No that's a bankruptcy waiting to happen.

What would you call this ? - https://www.ebay.com/itm/1932Packard903Deluxe1933Eight1934Super8Twin1935Six1936Twelve1937V12-1938-1939/121440784705?hash=item1c466f5141:g:2lUAAOSwq7JUG5rd

 

[George Cole 1,093]

16 hours ago, trimacar said:

Doesn’t the phrase “seized 12 cylinder engine” just send chills up your spine?

 

Either with an unlimited budget, or no hopes or plans to put it back together, I think it would be an interesting disassembly.

[bdc 324]

5 hours ago, 1950panhead said:

 

 

What would you call this ? - https://www.ebay.com/itm/1932Packard903Deluxe1933Eight1934Super8Twin1935Six1936Twelve1937V12-1938-1939/121440784705?hash=item1c466f5141:g:2lUAAOSwq7JUG5rd

 

At least it will be a more desirable body than a sedan, but it sure will be a money pit.

[bdc 324]

1 thing that stands out on the Twelve is that it came without sidemounts and a luggage rack instead of a rear mounted spare. I cant recall seeing a twelve sedan without sidemounts, although I've seen some with 1 sidemount.

[George Cole 1,093]

1 hour ago, bdc said:

At least it will be a more desirable body than a sedan, but it sure will be a money pit.

 

7 hours ago, 1950panhead said:

 

 

What would you call this ? - https://www.ebay.com/itm/1932Packard903Deluxe1933Eight1934Super8Twin1935Six1936Twelve1937V12-1938-1939/121440784705?hash=item1c466f5141:g:2lUAAOSwq7JUG5rd

 

I like everything about it except the price tag.

[George Cole 1,093]

The auction just closed with a selling bid of $21,250.00.

[alsancle 5,989]

25 minutes ago, George Cole said:

The auction just closed with a selling bid of $21,250.00.

 

I need to sell stuff on BAT.

[George Cole 1,093]

Just now, alsancle said:

 

I need to sell stuff on BAT.

Wife? Kids?  Neighbor's dog?

[bdc 324]

Like a buddy of mine used to say: everything is for sale except for my wife; I'll give her away.

I never understood how he could get away with that since his wife was 30 years younger than he was.

 

I tell my wife all the time she can leave anytime she wants, but I'll go with her!

[Matt Harwood 12,766]

Bring A Trailer works best when you have a car that isn't a BMW or Porsche or Mercedes and that isn't so perfect that the "Do you have paint thickness readings?" goofballs show up en masse. They don't know anything about Packards but they know a 12-cylinder Packard is a big deal without realizing that a frumpy 4-door is a nothing car, regardless of how many cylinders. Many guys are simply in awe of the car and they rarely understand the work that's in store. So they bid. 

 

I've seen great cars lay an egg because those guys don't understand them and I've seen real head-scratchers like the recent $39,000 Triumph TR6 that was average in every way except someone added A/C--apparently that doubles the value of a TR6. 

 

I've been tempted to list cars there, but then I read the comments and realize that if they don't "get it" and it doesn't sell, it'll be marked forever.

[alsancle 5,989]

27 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

Bring A Trailer works best when you have a car that isn't a BMW or Porsche or Mercedes and that isn't so perfect that the "Do you have paint thickness readings?" goofballs show up en masse. They don't know anything about Packards but they know a 12-cylinder Packard is a big deal without realizing that a frumpy 4-door is a nothing car, regardless of how many cylinders. Many guys are simply in awe of the car and they rarely understand the work that's in store. So they bid. 

 

I've seen great cars lay an egg because those guys don't understand them and I've seen real head-scratchers like the recent $39,000 Triumph TR6 that was average in every way except someone added A/C--apparently that doubles the value of a TR6. 

 

I've been tempted to list cars there, but then I read the comments and realize that if they don't "get it" and it doesn't sell, it'll be marked forever.

You get the added stigma of the comments to go with a price forever stuck to it on the internet. Definetly risky.

[bdc 324]

1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

Bring A Trailer works best when you have a car that isn't a BMW or Porsche or Mercedes and that isn't so perfect that the "Do you have paint thickness readings?" goofballs show up en masse. They don't know anything about Packards but they know a 12-cylinder Packard is a big deal without realizing that a frumpy 4-door is a nothing car, regardless of how many cylinders. Many guys are simply in awe of the car and they rarely understand the work that's in store. So they bid. 

 

I've seen great cars lay an egg because those guys don't understand them and I've seen real head-scratchers like the recent $39,000 Triumph TR6 that was average in every way except someone added A/C--apparently that doubles the value of a TR6. 

 

I've been tempted to list cars there, but then I read the comments and realize that if they don't "get it" and it doesn't sell, it'll be marked forever.

Matt, you hit the nail right on the head with your characterization of BAT!

Edited December 13, 2020 by bdc (see edit history)

[58L-Y8 2,134]

2 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

Bring A Trailer works best when you have a car that isn't a BMW or Porsche or Mercedes and that isn't so perfect that the "Do you have paint thickness readings?" goofballs show up en masse. They don't know anything about Packards but they know a 12-cylinder Packard is a big deal without realizing that a frumpy 4-door is a nothing car, regardless of how many cylinders. Many guys are simply in awe of the car and they rarely understand the work that's in store. So they bid. 

There might be an upside for this '37 Twelve when the neophile who bought it finds out how much it will cost to restore it but has bragged to his contemporaries about his shrewd purchase and feels compelled to spend a fortune to restore it regardless of how uneconomic the ultimate costs.  Such are those driven by personal vanity...

[Ben P. 673]

13 hours ago, alsancle said:

You get the added stigma of the comments to go with a price forever stuck to it on the internet. Definetly risky.

I’ve seen worse done here on this forum. Fortunately, I could delete the thread and his stinking made-up comments designed to hurt the value of the car he otherwise could not afford.

I’m never posting a ‘not mine’ ad on this forum ever again....

[alsancle 5,989]

4 hours ago, Ben P. said:

I’ve seen worse done here on this forum. Fortunately, I could delete the thread and his stinking made-up comments designed to hurt the value of the car he otherwise could not afford.

I’m never posting a ‘not mine’ ad on this forum ever again....

 

 

I would say that 90% of the comments are on here are pretty close to accurate.     BAT is the opposite and I think most of the posters are 12 years old.   80% of the comments are inane and refer to dropping crate motors in to micro cars.

[Ben P. 673]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

 

 

I would say that 90% of the comments are on here are pretty close to accurate.     BAT is the opposite and I think most of the posters are 12 years old.   80% of the comments are inane and refer to dropping crate motors in to micro cars.

A friend of mine used to say something along the lines of: “99% of statistics used in conversation are made-up on the spot.” I’m pretty sure he was pretty close to accurate on that, but I’m just as sure that the 90% and 80% figures you just threw out are about spot on. Maybe even a little conservative.

Yeah I agree there, that’s also why the incident I referred to did such damage — folks just wouldn’t expect such an underhanded ploy here.
(Though if they thought of checking into the snake before taking his comments as well intended or fact they’d see in one Google search that he had spent 50+ years running around the country suing people - including one foreign carmaker for his driving one their $xxx,xxx cars down a West coast freeway at 45mph and suing them for the result (they settled). But collector car buying (I hate the term but can’t think of a more accurate one) is such a different world I doubt anyone would have thought to check.)

Could you IMAGINE if real estate listings allowed comments on the ads??? It has never happened. Not even close. One real estate outfit sent lawyers out after a blogger for using the term ‘McMansion’. Not on an ad, not even referring to an ad - just the term with photos of examples.

Strange world

 

Edited December 13, 2020 by Ben P. (see edit history)

[wayne sheldon 1,416]

Unfortunately, a LOT of collector cars for sale ads truly deserve negative commentary, due to inane claims, or bizarre high prices. This is true regardless of the website or other medium. Ebay ads by several of their most prominent dealers are often three to four times high market value. The common lousy junk claimed as "rare" or "desirable" goes far beyond baseless claims. Hemmings is better than most, but still has some hideous and over-priced bad deals. I don't frequent Kijiji. but look in occasionally when a car ad is shared. What I have seen there is similar. 

The commentary on Kijiji appears to be absolutely juvenile and pointless. As for ebad, I quit sending useful information to sellers there years ago because most of them were totally clueless.  I find almost everything about Facebook's marketplace disgusting, and rarely look at it (it won't even show up on my computer half the time due to the way they do things).

 

At least here, on this forum, MOST of the commentary about cars for sale is at least somewhat helpful and informative. Most of it offers good advice, to potential buyers that could otherwise be seriously hurt by a bad purchase. And often good advice to sellers, if they would get off their high horses and take it.

 

Grandiose claims of authenticity or false vintage in many cases really should be exposed. That stuff hurts everyone.

 

All that said. I often do not comment on car ads because I don't like being "Mr Negative" too much. But sometimes I make negative comments anyway. Usually trying to educate someone.

[Matt Harwood 12,766]

I will admit that I occasionally participate in the discussions at Bring A Trailer and was actually driven to register due to comments on a Mid-Year Corvette, which I thought was being unjustifiably maligned. Of course, it was only later that I would learn that it is SOP for the peanut gallery there to rip Corvettes to shreds and they seem to race each other to be the first to drop a "I don't think that stamping pad looks quite right," comment. I argued that unless you know for certain, it's a problem to cast aspersions about such an important aspect of a car like that--Corvettes live and die by "matching numbers" and implying that a car is a fraud can have a very significant effect on values now and in the future. What's worse, nobody can really know for certain if a car has been restamped--it's 100% opinion even when the experts are involved. Making that claim from a photograph is beyond stupid, it's borderline negligence.

 

Nevertheless, my opinion was shouted down by a vast majority of the participants who virtuously argue that they're "only trying to protect the buyer" and "get all the information out there." No, that's exactly NOT what you're doing, boys. You're mindlessly speculating that a car is a fraud because you looked at a picture of 3/16" tall numbers on a dirty engine in the darkest corner of an engine bay and proclaiming that you are able to divine something critical about the car's history from it. Meanwhile, the poor sap selling the car is caught with his pants down because he believed it was matching numbers. What's worse, the car is now marked for life--any time someone punches the VIN into Google they'll see all the comments. There will always be an asterisk next to that car now because some selfish anonymous guys on the internet decided they knew more than the guy who owned it. And, of course, anonymous guys on the internet somehow seem to carry a lot more weight in their opinions that an owner or a dealer, who have nefarious agendas don't you know? So the car's borked because they let amateurs take pot shots at it. That's completely uncool.

 

I have often wondered if I'm a hypocrite because I buy cars on Bring A Trailer once in a while but won't sell there and get frustrated with the commenters. I don't know--more than one person I've talked to recently says that I worry too much about what's ethical rather than simply letting grown men be idiots. Meh.

[Ben P. 673]

2 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

And, of course, anonymous guys on the internet somehow seem to carry a lot more weight in their opinions that an owner or a dealer, who have nefarious agendas don't you know? So the car's borked because they let amateurs take pot shots at it. That's completely uncool.

Yep. Why is that? This ‘never trust the experts’ thing has become worse than it was in the 1930’s. Hopefully it dies with Vulpes ‘News’ which created it, but it will probably be around as long as Facebook survives.

 

Since I shot my mouth off re. ‘negative comments on ads’ on this forum - that’s not an absolute. The vast majority of the non-positive comments on this forum are intended to be helpful and educational. There isn’t anyone here who doesn’t have a LIST of things they didn’t wish they knew before they bought any given particular car. Especially since a great number of (maybe most) cars are being sold not by a knowledgeable owner, but his surviving family who know NOTHING about it. (Whatever happened to that $100,000 Durant basket-case that was advertised in HMN for YEARS on end?)

 

There is a fine line there, wish I could spell it out but I cannot. “I know it when I see it” though.... After one sucker punch by a cat operating to his own self-serving and secret motives I however will not post a ‘not mine’ ad ever again. It’s self regulating - Most of us are a little more careful with words when we know we’re commenting on an ad the OP created or can see himself. Add in the additional layer of anonymity provided by a ‘not mine’ ad and all bets are off.

It doesn’t take much — a tiny grain of truth with an innocent ‘mysterious question’ wrapped around it can be instant death to a car’s sale and like you said, hang around it forever. “If you look at the distance between the rear wheel and fender you can see...”

Yeah, never again, and btw, worrying about what’s ethical will save you from more trouble than it could possibly create. But that can be a lot like ‘striving to be humble’, which by definition kinda means you’re not.

*enough*