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Intervention - stop the seemingly endless dividing and subdividing of the forum into more and more restrictive sub forums


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  • Peter Gariepy changed the title to Intervention - stop the seemingly endless dividing and subdividing of the forum into more and more restrictive sub forums
3 hours ago, Restorer32 said:

OK I'll be the one to say it.  Would someone please organize an intervention to see if we can stop the seemingly endless dividing and subdividing of the forum into more and more restrictive sub forums?

 

So flesh out your thoughts and why you dislike subforms, and why you feel they are restrictive?

 

In my defense, since August there are actually about 6 fewer forums. (not more)

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Let them speak for themselves!  Check the number of responses to a thread before the subject matter was split off and after. If your responses are equal or better it’s a good split. If lower then rethink the split. 
 

Too some having to go to a different location is restrictive and they just won’t do it. Activity on a thread is the best indication not just the complaints of a few that may not like it. In my past business dealings I’ve found most surveys are ignored by satisfied  customers. That’s why I say activity gives you your best answer. 
 

dave s 

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2 hours ago, SC38DLS said:

Let them speak for themselves!  Check the number of responses to a thread before the subject matter was split off and after. If your responses are equal or better it’s a good split. If lower then rethink the split. 
 

Too some having to go to a different location is restrictive and they just won’t do it. Activity on a thread is the best indication not just the complaints of a few that may not like it. In my past business dealings I’ve found most surveys are ignored by satisfied  customers. That’s why I say activity gives you your best answer. 

I could not have expressed it better.

Surveys are usually worded to get the result that person paying for the survey wants.  My brother in law was a contract worker for our Federal Government writing surveys.  Getting future contracts was decided on the results of the last survey.  He made good money for over thirty years where many people were only hired once because their survey did not produce the right answer.

I like the new look of the forum.  Thanks to Peter et al.

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The "For Sale" section is what confuses me. It has so many sub-divisions, I really don't look at it anymore. I preferred it when it was just "Cars" and "Parts". An idea: Each person placing an ad could fill out some boxes or choose from a list to make a search under make, year, model, etc. easier.

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2 hours ago, Robert G. Smits said:

Agree 100%.  I rarely go the the For Sale section any more.  Maybe I am too old to learn!!!

I doubt if it's that. I'm presumably 1 of the younger (40) members here, and I get lost in it as well. 

 

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3 minutes ago, Ftrose said:

I to have to agree , the for sale section is confusing and I know I’m not seeing as much as I used to , I guess I have to say what was wrong with the old format? old saying , if it’s not broke don’t fix it 

 

I previously got complaints the for sales forums were not consolidated.  Now that they are consolidated, some want them spread out again. Damned if I do, damned if don't.

 

"If it's not broken, don't fix it".  If that advice was followed the forum would never exist.

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5 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

The menu in a Chinese restaurant is easier to follow..........Bob

 

Consider providing some constructive criticism.  I obviously disagree.  Give me some ideas how to make it better.

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41 minutes ago, Peter Gariepy said:

 

Consider providing some constructive criticism.  I obviously disagree.  Give me some ideas how to make it better.

 

Occam's razor......or.........Embrace the KISS concept in organization ......Bob

 

Edited by Bhigdog (see edit history)
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I'll get flamed for this but oh well... what else is new..

 

 Can't please everyone. The ole timers (those who hate change, myself included) expect simplicity with a point and shoot method that we are all used to when visiting a site that we've grown so accustomed to.

 I get it.. trust me I do..

 

However,

those of us who are still in the work force look at this and laugh because of the simplicity compared to what we're used to dealing with in the corporate world now days (the phrase suck it up buttercup comes to mind). Finding things on the board is not a challenge for some of us, but I understand what some are saying, it is frustrating but I think it's psychological. The sub categories work great in theory but if your audience is used to simplicity without effort it's tough to find something that works for all. Can't please everyone theory...

 

My recommendation is to delete the old section of BUY and Sell from where it is now, just completely delete it so we aren't expecting to see it. We've only had 19,000 (approx) views to this page since it's moved anyway and we all know where the new location is. What we should be saying is the new location isn't appealing to the eye (just my opinion). If you completely delete the old section of buy and sell when you log on to the main page your mind isn't "expecting" it to be where it used to be which in turn will eliminate that confusion and frustration. The layout will be the same but the second section will say Photos and Video Forums. THEN, I'd highlight the NEW buy and sell section banner ...  just the banner so it's stands out somewhat. I'd use a green banner for buy and red for the word sell, just my way of thinking and studying how others are effected by the psychological torment we all seem to struggle with when it comes to change in this techno world...

 

OLD look stays the same. Remove buy and sell completely then move the Photo and Video Forums up one notch.

 

image.png.73051c3be8c6b9aee22a62c7bb148830.png

 

 

 

NEW LOOK 

image.png.a54328d36d534230043ec64e000fbd32.png

 

If we can't find it by then... we'll never find it ;) 

 

 

 

Edited by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)
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Peter, I have previously expressed my dislike for the Buy/Sell Forum changes, but understand that you and I disagree on that one. I really dislike the subforum for Automobile humor. It is just something making me have to scroll down further to check the General Forum. If it's content was in the general forum I would click on a few topics if they sounded interesting. For now, I simply mark that subforum read without ever looking at it. I don't come here for humor, so I am not going to click on a humor only subforum. An occasional dose of humor found while scrolling the General forum would be preferable.

 

If you could lose the Redirect link for the Buy/Sell Forum, that would also save me a bit of scrolling while I continue to ignore that forum. Continuing to subdivide things to require additional clicks does not make the forum more fun. When you first set up this latest software, when you clicked to mark a forum read, you did not have to click again to confirm that selection. MrEarl asked previously if we could eliminate that dialogue box and additonal click. I also wish you would change the setting back to what it was initially to elminate the additional confirmation requirement.

 

When you make something super stratified, it diminishes the value of scrolling through a list of topics and finding  something that you were not looking for and clicking on it and learning about something that you are not familar with. One example that comes to mind is your previous comments regarding the desire for a "Playboy" specific forum. As I said then, I would not look for that, and would not see it. With it in a "Our Cars and Restorations" forum, I would (and have) clicked on it and learned about something a little bit unusual and interesting. Trying to make everything too specific is not an improvement.    

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12 hours ago, Peter Gariepy said:

 

I previously got complaints the for sales forums were not consolidated.  Now that they are consolidated, some want them spread out again. Damned if I do, damned if don't.

 

"If it's not broken, don't fix it".  If that advice was followed the forum would never exist.

 

Well, you asked for advice, now that you have it, you don't want to take it. I stopped reading the For Sale section the minute it changed. Maybe it's my eyes, but it's too confusing and too fragmented. I was one that asked you to do something about the 'Not Mine' section because I felt it cluttered up the section too much. If I want to locate a car for sale, I'll find it with Google. I sometimes think that those who post Not Mine ads just want there total of posts to go up. It's almost like "How many ways can I dick around with success before I ruin it."

 

Just my thoughts...

 

Frank

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1 hour ago, oldford said:

 

Well, you asked for advice, now that you have it, you don't want to take it. I stopped reading the For Sale section the minute it changed. Maybe it's my eyes, but it's too confusing and too fragmented. I was one that asked you to do something about the 'Not Mine' section because I felt it cluttered up the section too much. If I want to locate a car for sale, I'll find it with Google. I sometimes think that those who post Not Mine ads just want there total of posts to go up. It's almost like "How many ways can I dick around with success before I ruin it."

 

Just my thoughts...

 

Frank

 

As you've already stated, I do take advice. To date, I've gotten complaints, not advice.

And just because you personally dont read the for sale forums does mean others dont.

I do get your point on confusing. But less confusing than before when they were all over the forums. (IMHO)

 

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33 minutes ago, Ben Bruce aka First Born said:

WOW!

 

Agreed...

 

How hard is it to look at a page, find your interest, then click what you want? There really isn't even any scrolling as some have implied... it's all right in from of us. 

If you don't want to view the humor section you don't have to scroll down.. It's right there, just click general instead of humor. Not that hard people. 

 

Peter, if you make it any simpler, you'll be doing our clicking for us. I was away for a while and when I came back I noticed the changes and found everything pretty quick. I understand why some have a hard time but I doubt that's the majority. If you need help finding the ignore button let me know ;) 

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11 minutes ago, 30DodgePanel said:

 

If you don't want to view the humor section you don't have to scroll down.. It's right there, just click general instead of humor. Not that hard people. 

 

Wrong. Before the change, when you click on the General Forum, you immediately saw posts a number of posts in the General Forum without having to scroll down. This screen shot is what I see when I click on the General Forum. I can't see any post in that forum without having to scroll down. It is a minor thing, but it is irritating. This is why I prefer fewer subforums. 

 

image.thumb.png.91359a81a3742a24e3ab7fa53901e079.png

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I simply use the "Unread Content" button at the top and bottom of the forum. That shows me a simple list of topics that have new posts since my last visit to the forum. All in a list, so I don't have to sort through sub-forums. I read the ones that are interesting to me and do not read those that aren't. Much easier and this way you never miss anything that might be in an out-of-the-way corner of the site.

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1 hour ago, MCHinson said:

 Before the change, when you click on the General Forum, you immediately saw posts a number of posts in the General Forum without having to scroll down. 

 

Ctrl scroll out ;)  or, maybe a masseuse for the index ? 

It's hell getting old... I get it... but your still on the general page.. can't we just ignore the humor section? 

Or, maybe Peter can place a toggle next to the humor section for those that want to avoid it entirely? 

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Peter I disagree with your statement that you have gotten complaints and not advice. I personally do not have a problem navigating the forums. I suggested letting the changes speak for them selves by doing response analysis based on prior and after action results. I’m see no response from you telling us this or some reasonable analysis was done in this decision process. It almost seems like it is at the whim of an individual. This particular thread is a perfect example. Why move it to an (shall I say) obscure forum when you are asking for comments from the general forum members?  
As I said above, I don’t have a problem with the moves, I will also say I believe I will miss out on a lot of interesting threads simply because I won’t be going to a lot of obscure forum categories on a regular basis. 
I don’t envy your job and appreciate that you do it. I think this subject could be easier on you if you gave some better factual explanation in the reasoning as to why these divisions have been done.  I hope you don’t get discouraged or take these comments as a personal assault or insult. 
dave s 

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36 minutes ago, Peter Gariepy said:

 

You said "Packard" in your original post.  Youre right about PA. Will be addressed.

Peter, what I meant was that Packard was not with Packard, and Pierce was with Pierce.

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This is how I browse the forums, maybe this will help some, maybe just confuse things more, but here goes:

 

I am on a windows PC using Chrome browser, this probably works on many other machines and browsers, probably not on some.

 

I go to the main forum page and scroll down to the sub forum I want to see. Then do a right mouse click, open in new tab. For example right click, open in new tab on 'Not Mine Automobiles for Sale'.

I then click on that tab that just opened, and view individual threads of interest in the same way, by right click, open in new tab.

When done with a thread or sub category I close it's tab, but always leave the original tab open, the main forum page that shows all the sub forums. This leaves the original main page in place that I can go back to at any time to open more sub forums.

 

This way I always work off the main page, for example view the 'Not Mine Automobiles for Sale' in new tab, look at a few, close it. Then go back to the main page, page down, right click on 'Buick - Pre War', view it in new tab, close it, back for more off the forum home page. And do the same for all sub forums of interest.

 

This works for me, maybe will help others. Does anyone else have an orderly 'system' they use for browsing this forum? Similar to covering swap meets in an orderly fashion instead of random rows ☺️

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3 hours ago, sleeve-valve said:

This is how I browse the forums, maybe this will help some, maybe just confuse things more, but here goes:

 

I am on a windows PC using Chrome browser, this probably works on many other machines and browsers, probably not on some.

 

This works for me on Firefox with both Windows and Mac too. I just open up what I'm interested in, then read through the threads one by one.

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I believe the more appropriate/better intervention would be if members learned (and stick to) using search function to find already existing discussions/threads related to the subject they wish to comment on.

This simple exercise of intelligence would eliminate unnecessary creation of countless new discussions/threads on same/similar topics piled on top of countless others.

 

I mean how many separate  “help me identify this... “, “what is this...”, “look what saw today”  or “Hey, I took my ***** for a drive”, etc. ad nauseum topics do we need ?

 

Or are all these members constantly contributing new topics just millennials with no patience to be bothered with common sense approaches or so bored with everyday living, needing continually stimulate their virtual reality ?

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For people who view this site daily, I recommend the "Unread Content" and "Mark Site Read" buttons that are at the top and bottom right of every page you visit as long as you are signed in.

 

Everyday (these days more than once) I just click the unread button  (I have it bookmarked so I go directly to it) and scan through the messages that are unread since the last visit.  When I see a topic of interest I right-click it and open it in a tab then keep scanning down to the end.  At the end of the list I click the Mark Site as Read Button and it's ready to go for the next day.  Then I look at the tabs I've opened to read and reply as necessary.

 

Using this method, I pay no attention to which forum a message resides in and often stumble across items of interest that I wouldn't have found had I been simply checking forums in my interest area.

 

NOTE: If you don't do this regularly you will find the list of unread messages is rather long.

 

Peter

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