sftamx1 Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Has any one here had issues with powder coating a frame? Some have said any flex will cause the paint to crack or flake off. This frame is for a stock restoration of a 1933 Terraplane 8 convertible...any experience or advice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 It's been done many times............no issues that I am aware of. It isn't for Pebble Beach........but if you like it, why not? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Bond Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 If you are trying to do a "stock restoration," which to me implies authentic, the be sure your powder can provide the correct level of gloss (or lack of) in the finish. To me, looking under a nicely restored car and seeing a frame with a finish so glossy you see your face in it is disappointing. Terry 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Harwood Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Powdercoat is the best choice for a frame and the varying levels of gloss can get you a very authentic look. I used 60% gloss black on my '41 Buick Century frame and it looked exactly right. Not too shiny. It flexes better than paint and as long as the surface is prepped properly (sandblast it) it will probably outlast us all. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fossil Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 (edited) Our experience in our facility with powder coating was not good. We found that if the coating was damaged (scratched or chipped) water would get underneath and corrosion would start. From there the corrosion snowballed very rapidly. The other thing is powder coating tends to be thicker than paint which reduces the size of holes and slots. So you want to make sure the holes are large enough to accomodate this. We had much better luck with high quality primers and paint. We were a food processing facility. Admittedly this was a harsh environment where problems show up faster than normal. I've noticed the same results on accessory car parts like trailer hitches. If this is going to be just a show car it would probably work just fine. Edited November 23, 2020 by Fossil (see edit history) 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Real men paint them, or hire one that can. Bob 4 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
46 woodie Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 A couple of other issues with powder coat is one, repairability and two, if your car is like a Model A Ford, with positive ground to the chassis, then grounding can be an issue. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Positive or negative grounding to the frame does not make any difference. Metal to metal is what is important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 I have had a lot of architectural metals powder coated by a reputable guy. For the most part things came out great, but after a few years in the weather some of the stuff is starting to rust through. SO, the idea that powder coat is the last coat of paint you will ever need doesnt seem right to me. I would not have a problem doing a car frame as long as the gloss is correct. I do like the idea of regular paint that way if one needs to touch up it should be easier. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sftamx1 Posted November 23, 2020 Author Share Posted November 23, 2020 I'm especially interested in the ability of powder coating to reach in all the nooks and crannies. This car will be kept dry in AZ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Man Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 Powder coating is applied electrostatically so it is normally is better coverage. Make sure you put bolts in threaded holes or you get to tap the paint out of the threaded holes. Go talk to your local powder coater make sure they have a big enough oven to handle your frame. Lots of race car frames are powder coated because they are so hard to get good spray paint coverage. They will also have examples of their work to look at, black happens almost every day at most shops. Good Luck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a griffin Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 We've had multiple frames powdercoated. Mostly hotrods, but a few restorations snuck in. Never had a problem. There are dozens of color and gloss choices to choose from. Powder coat is typically more durable than a paint job too. Last frame we had done was for a tri 5 chevy and was around 1400.00, blasted clean and completely coated. Most shops charge per foot on frames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 23, 2020 Share Posted November 23, 2020 My local power coater will not do frames anymore as the last one he did had grease inside the frame and screwed up his whole operation. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 7 hours ago, TAKerry said: SO, the idea that powder coat is the last coat of paint you will ever need doesnt seem right to me. Powder Coat is just paint without solvent. Pigments and binders, no solvent, since it is electrostatically applied instead of needing a fluid liquid for brush or spray. Sort of a version of reflow enamel that vehicle manufacturers use, just no liquid solvent, requires heat to flow. I tell people all the time powder coat is just paint.😉 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studemax Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Except powder coating is NOT paint. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1937hd45 Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 10 hours ago, Matt Harwood said: Powdercoat is the best choice for a frame and the varying levels of gloss can get you a very authentic look. I used 60% gloss black on my '41 Buick Century frame and it looked exactly right. Not too shiny. It flexes better than paint and as long as the surface is prepped properly (sandblast it) it will probably outlast us all. Could you post some photos of a heavily rust pitted and sand blasted Brass Era frame with a powder coat finish, in any level of gloss? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalowed Bill Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 So what happens if it has to be removed later? I've always wondered how you touch it up or redo it if it gets damaged? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed Luddy Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Living in the frozen north with lots of road salt I wish the manufacturers would do something better than the thin watery paint they use on current truck and car frames and chassis. My 2 yr. old Dodge Charger had lots of rust and I didn't winter drive it. My current 08 F 150's frame is really bad due to being bare metal in a lot of areas due to sand and salt spray. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 Undercoat and Imron work nicely together. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sftamx1 Posted November 24, 2020 Author Share Posted November 24, 2020 Imron? Been a long time since I heard that word. 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 13 hours ago, Studemax said: Except powder coating is NOT paint. Explain the difference. They are both coatings for surfaces. Powder coating and "paint" both involve pigments and binders. Plating involves attaching another metal to the substrate. That is different than powder coat and paint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 I did that job in 2011 and came in under the wire before globalization. The Imron spawned from my nephew on his preference. I didn't question it since he did the rearend work in his shop. DuPont is globalized now and changed (2013). I have a preference toward Valspar and PPG, which now have the same parent company in their globalization. House of Color appears to belong to the PPG family now and I may try that on an upcoming base coat/clear coat job. I will still use PPG single stage for other touch ups. One thing to remember is that sound deadener is the other name for undercoat. Take it literally. In the early 1990's I laboriously stripped the old undercoat from my '64 Riviera and painted the bottom. It is noticeably noisier. When I did the '60 Electra I cleaned and resurfaced the undercoat on the frame and body parts to keep it quiet. That worked. Only suspension parts are painted and it is a very quiet car. On this next refresh of the Riviera, after 25+ years, I will strategically undercoat the body this time. It is important to use a combination of the coating to get appearance and quietness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ojh Posted November 24, 2020 Share Posted November 24, 2020 One problem I've had is the coating is thick enough to affect the fitting especially the body parts, it can easily be 1/16th and more thicker, the body sets down on top of the frame and fender or hood latch bracket bolts to the side and now everything is off by an 1/8th, you've already mocked everything up and had it fitted perfect, nice and tight and they're you'll be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 17 hours ago, Buffalowed Bill said: So what happens if it has to be removed later? I've always wondered how you touch it up or redo it if it gets damaged? A local railing company owner, who did mostly powdercoated handrails for homes and commercial buildings, told told me you can touch-up powder coat by mixing the granules with alcohol, brushing the mixture on the area to be repaired, and hitting it with a heat gun to flow it out and cure it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalowed Bill Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 Thanks Harold-it makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sftamx1 Posted November 25, 2020 Author Share Posted November 25, 2020 14 hours ago, ojh said: One problem I've had is the coating is thick enough to affect the fitting especially the body parts, it can easily be 1/16th and more thicker, the body sets down on top of the frame and fender or hood latch bracket bolts to the side and now everything is off by an 1/8th, you've already mocked everything up and had it fitted perfect, nice and tight and they're you'll be. I think inexpensive cars of the early '30's have enough lee way to not notice,lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TAKerry Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 I had a guitar painted with imron around 1979, still looks good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryankazmer Posted November 25, 2020 Share Posted November 25, 2020 The repair method sounds plausible, but not all powder coatings are the same chemistry and not all "cure" (crosslink). So it's important to get the same type of coating chemistry as original for a good repair. In conventional painting, the solvent/carrier has to be removed to leave a dense film behind. In powder coating, the air in between the particles has to be removed, leaving a dense film behind. In this repair method, both the solvent/carrier and the air have to be removed. The alcohol gets it to stick without the substrate being charged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sftamx1 Posted November 25, 2020 Author Share Posted November 25, 2020 The owner of the powder coating business told me this: Frames are a vehicles foundation. I do many 4 wheeler, race frames,and also rims of all types. After blast and phosphate wash, zinc rich primer goes on at lower temp and gel coats, apply final topcoat and all bakes together on frame. 8 years, no returns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted November 26, 2020 Share Posted November 26, 2020 On 11/23/2020 at 3:30 PM, sftamx1 said: I'm especially interested in the ability of powder coating to reach in all the nooks and crannies. This car will be kept dry in AZ. Not totally true. Where you have deep cracks like where the center of a steel wheel meets the outer rim, powder coating will not get all the way into the joint area. To fix that bare metal area, you can use some clear RTV to seal that area or some other suitable sealer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarGurus Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 I just recently powder coated the frame of my car and went with a company called Vitracoat. They have a few different choices of powder coats that cover a few different applications but if you call them I'm sure they will point you in the right direction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sftamx1 Posted June 9, 2022 Author Share Posted June 9, 2022 Thanks for the replies. Went from this powder coated frame to this finished car in just over a year... 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 (edited) On 11/25/2020 at 8:45 AM, TAKerry said: I had a guitar painted with imron around 1979, still looks good! I guess you play Heavy Metal (bad joke) or just in case you to play a set of acid rock the finish won't get tarnished Edited June 9, 2022 by John348 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootey Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 I’ve had two powder coating experiences. I did a bunch of stuff including the frame on my 1938 Buick Century with no problems. I also did an original Yankee stadium chair frame. The chair sits on our porch 200 yards from the ocean. It had gotten very rusty. The powder coater sandblasted the frame before powder coating . There must have been minute pinholes in the powder coating that allowed rusting to commence. The rust is pervasive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Gray Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 I have done several Corvette frames with powder coating. Overall it does a nice job, but if the surface is not smooth (pitted) the powder coat will reflect the imperfections. Also on Corvettes where grounds are very important, care must be taken to grind off the powder coat at grounding points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
63RedBrier Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 Dave Gray brings up a good point... If the part/frame/railing is pitted, how (or with what?) do you fill the pits before powder coating? Grinding/sanding a frame (or whatever) to remove pits may weaken the part to a point of it no longer being safe. At least with paints, you can fill pits with all kinds of epoxy coatings/fillers/primers before painting to get a nice (smooth?) finish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank DuVal Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 13 hours ago, Shootey said: There must have been minute pinholes in the powder coating that allowed rusting to commence. Powder coating is just paint without solvents. It still needs to flow to cover, this happens in the oven. Just like car paint used to be, the reflow system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John348 Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 14 hours ago, Shootey said: I’ve had two powder coating experiences. I did a bunch of stuff including the frame on my 1938 Buick Century with no problems. I also did an original Yankee stadium chair frame. The chair sits on our porch 200 yards from the ocean. It had gotten very rusty. The powder coater sandblasted the frame before powder coating . There must have been minute pinholes in the powder coating that allowed rusting to commence. The rust is pervasive. I have a pair of the 1923 Yankee Stadium seats and the cast iron bases are very bad. I keep mine inside Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootey Posted June 9, 2022 Share Posted June 9, 2022 Re filling, I had an interior railing constructed for my house. The pieces were welded together and then the contractor filled the ugly pits with a plastic-type filler. I schlepped the monster to the powder coating guy. He sandblasted it and all the filler came out or it at least was melted out in the oven. The powder coater said the contractor should have instead run a bead of weld around each joint and left it at that. So I abandoned the powder coating and painted. the point is that non-metal filler is a problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bryankazmer Posted June 10, 2022 Share Posted June 10, 2022 5 hours ago, Shootey said: Re filling, I had an interior railing constructed for my house. The pieces were welded together and then the contractor filled the ugly pits with a plastic-type filler. I schlepped the monster to the powder coating guy. He sandblasted it and all the filler came out or it at least was melted out in the oven. The powder coater said the contractor should have instead run a bead of weld around each joint and left it at that. So I abandoned the powder coating and painted. the point is that non-metal filler is a problem. powder coating works by having an electrical charge on the object to be coated - the non-metal filler is an insulator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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