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1925 standard buick starter motor


tonybuick
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Just for info a couple of months ago +\- there was a posting with photos of a member making a rope sling for the s/g to assist in removing and installing it.  It looked like a really good idea to handle that very heavy and awkward unit in a confined space.  If you page back here you might find it.

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10 minutes ago, michealbernal said:

Just for info a couple of months ago +\- there was a posting with photos of a member making a rope sling for the s/g to assist in removing and installing it.  It looked like a really good idea to handle that very heavy and awkward unit in a confined space.  If you page back here you might find it.

I made one for mine to help lower it.I have pulled that s/g a dozen times. once 3 times in one day

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hi which screws do you remove you have to remove the two that hold the sheet metal cover off as its trapped by the pump drive do you mean the 3 screws that hold the housing around the disbuter drive gear if you took that and that gear off you would free up a lot 

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Tony, on the shaft just before it enters the Start/ generator you will see a pin through the shaft.This will have to be knocked out  and it is tapered and has to be knocked out or installed in one direction.Once this pin is knocked out remove the 2 screws from the tin cover on the s/g and remove the two bolts and take off the top of the pillow block.You can now slide the coupler out of the s/g and slide it all the way back to the pillow block.Here is the trick slide the brass oil slinger assembly out of the pillow block toward the water pump but be careful to hold the oil slinger ring up as to not break it.You can now move the s/g coupler real close to the pillow block and take the three bolts and spacers out that hold the s/g to the block and lower the s/g to the floor.What I usually do is use a ratchet strap to hold it in place while I take the bolts out and use a rope sling to lower it to the floor.Remember it is heavy and be careful.Once the S/g is unbolted from the block you can move it outward enough to give you room to pull it off of the tapered starter pedal shaft.

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thanks for that they are heavy i can remeber when i took mine out i will give it a go as you have suggested i have been asked to help another buick owner put his back onto his car he removed it for repair and used crow bars etc to get it out and he bent the shaft from the starter pedal the water pump is still on the car but it would save time to leave this on and fit starter motor again the tapered pin etc has been removed i did my starter gen up when i did my car up and i haver never had to thouch it again thanks tony

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Like Ron says.  1925 shop manual notes below.  Most of the time the drive coupling on the water pump shaft won't slide on the shaft unless the last person put never seize or grease on the shaft prior to installation of the drive coupling.   A couple options on lifting.  The unit weighs 60 lbs and I have always lifted it out the top-but be careful lifting it as it could be top heavy and rotate in your sling if you are not careful.     Hugh

 

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1039079207_RogerPridemoreSGremoval.thumb.JPG.b45d2111795f4759223e888b40055828.JPGIMG_7294.thumb.JPG.0fd2ebc6ca3991ae327952534b1ad42e.JPG

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Tony I forgot to mention that the tapered shaft has to be pulled back.I usually remove the starter pedal and manually pull the shaft back because I am usually by myself.If you have help you can get someone to hold the starter pedal down so you won't have to remove it.Be sure to pull the oil slinger ring up in the bottom of the brass piece or you will brake the ring.You will have to tap the brass piece back gently with a small hammer.

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  • 10 months later...

Some previous "tech" had installed a bent nail in the Oldham coupling and with pipe wrench divots on the pump shaft i'm not sure I want to remove the SG unless I really have to. If I've read things correctly the unit should motor with a jumper from the battery post to the No.2 switch terminal connection ...i get a weak arc and no motor action. Comments?

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Look at the wiring diagram and the ignition switch.  When you rotate the switch, the 3 brass fingers connect posts 1, 2, and 3.  Battery voltage goes thru the ammeter to #1 post, then #2 will get power and begin motoring the SG unit.  #3 also gets power and that feeds the coil.  

You should have 6 volts on post #2 on the ignition switch, and also 6 volts on terminal A of the SG unit.  Maybe the generator brushes are dirty?  You may be able to check them with an Ohm meter (have the ignition switch off if using the ohm meter).  Hugh

981495327_1925Buickwiringdiagram2.jpg.aa9d77342399bbc979ac23f29270121b.jpg1325131417_rebuildignswitch1-insideswitch.JPG.e1d92e6d3796fd952bf83a808ce6e87f.JPG

985888072_StarterGeneratortestphoto.JPG.6c9a11fece1bb56e0d99e8cc35050d71.JPG

 

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  • 1 month later...

Cleaned commutators with com stone, raked the mica gaps (plenty low not protruding, looks like undercut done recently) No. 2 switch terminal when connected direct to battery (6.56 V) motors the generator. At this point theres batt voltage to the starter brush. As soon as starter engaged motoring stops n nothing else happens though still batt voltage at the starter brush. Checking commutators with ohm meter finding nothing to ground. What am I missing? As in previous post I don't really want to remove the SG due to condition of the shaft. Looks like I can cut the shaft ahead of the support bearing n add another coupling or better yet have it on the bench where I can fab a new shaft out of stainless. How much forward room do I need to get the unit out or can it just tilt up n forward?  TIA

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Doug:

 Sometimes it is the timing of the relationship of the pin that  drops the starter brushes.

 On my car when I remade the waterpump shaft and tried to duplicate the same location for the starter coupler pin mine did the same as yours. I made my hole in the shaft with an accurate set up on a drill press in V blocks. Reamed the taper and found that the original shaft was somwhat angled and off center (drilled in assembly). Originally the "Oldham" coupler (loose piece between the shaft coupler and the starter generator) needs about .050 clearence. Otherwise things bind up when the starter pedal is depressed.

 I removed the Oldham coupler and surface ground about .020 from the surface untill things would work again. That was since I now could not relocate the hole in the end of the water pump shaft. Also did not feel likke taking off the WP for a 4th time.

 The rebuilt water pump I did for my 1925 Master I did a removeable .050 shim between the couplers and will use the coupler hole to drill the new pin hole in assembly.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Looking at the schematic I printed from the AACA pre war Buick forum..it shows the commutator of the SG rotating ccw viewed from the brush end of the SG unit. Mine is rotating in a CW direction when being motored when the switch turned to the on position, and it doesn't turn very fast. Battery connected negative ground.

Will this condition cause the starter function to not work? 

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Doug:

 Looking at the front of the car the water pump/starter generator shaft turns clockwise. Same as the crankshaft. The output of the S/G is CCW to mesh with the flywheel teeth to have it going clockwise.

 Seems as though a lead has been switched.

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When the starter pedal is depressed it raises the copper brush on the large commutator and lowers the carbon brush to the smaller commutator, exactly backwards from what it should. Seems this is backwards as the the copper brush, one would think, is the start side.  The SG motors in the correct direction with the battery connected positive ground. Seems I have 2 issues here. Someone had turned the commutators and undercut the mica...it doesnt look like they've had much use since this was done ....likely(?) connection wrong and linkage reversed somehow ...onward 

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Not sure what I did....took off the gear cover while helper depressed starter pedal. No damage, gears meshed. He pushed starter pedal 2nd time and it all works! Now it runs, 10# oil pressure at idle hot, drives, shifts, stops. Now to decide what to do with it. I restore classic motorcycles and this elephant is filling the shop. If someone wants it I'd sell it.....

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