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Pre war car service at modern dealership.


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Mine until recently. Previous owner delivering it.

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I would keep my Bendix oil in the same can I keep my Hudsonite clutch fluid in, secretly labeled ATF. Although I have been know to dip into a can of D&L hand cleaner to get some lanolin. Even done leather seats with that. To the topic, the modern dealership might not bring up and alternative when one keyed the product in.

 

We are in a bad spot with database answers and no background reasoning. I had trouble with a GM gear reduction starter that would pull in while driving and self destruct- 3 times! I bought a $30 rebuilt just asking for a 1975 Camaro 350 off the top of my head. I sold the car to a friend and a few years later he took it to a shop for a new one. They had an awful time matching it up. I also put a resistor in the coded key circuit, another big issue for the shop.

 

Once again to the topic, those whom think the dealership plugs in a computer and it tells them what is wrong are ignorant in the most specific meaning of the word. There is a lot of interpretation in most OBD based services. More than the old timer who just looked at an oscilloscope screen, pointed to a blip, and said "there it is" like they did 50 years ago.

 

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2 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

 

01010.thumb.jpg.4b1448397228aa09d57c38f63b688788.jpg

 

This is a funny coincidence. Just last week, while researching/sourcing some new air conditioning fittings for a +/- 50 year old Ferrari* and after finding suitable pieces, I noticed the application reference was for Allis-Chalmers (?!?).

 

*No Ferrari parts supplier anywhere in the world had/has anything, not even part numbers for them.

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Not long ago I took a Coker Firestone tire to the local Firestone tire center.  I was told that they couldn't put the new tire on the wheel because it has a tube.  They don't know how to put in a tube; about eight attendants working there and none knew how to install a tube. I volunteered to show them how to do it, having installed tubes a hundred times back in the 1960's.; nope, too dangerous.

 

From there I took my tire and tube to a place that handles truck tires. No problems after that.

 

 

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Firestone got burned so bad on that Explorer mess that they won't tackle ANYTHING out of the ordinary. Because of knuckleheads' stupidity and not checking tire pressure on their Fords, the rest of us are now saddled with tire shops who are afraid and nuisance tire pressure alarms on our vehicles. But it couldn't POSSIBLY be the idiot vehicle owner's fault, could it?🙄

 

I worked with a guy who wanted an alarm for every conceivable (and some inconceivable) condition. Pissed him off in a controls upgrade meeting by saying "so you, as a rated control room operator, are incapable of monitoring your equipment?"

 

Yes, he drove an Explorer.

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9 hours ago, rocketraider said:

I worked with a guy who wanted an alarm for every conceivable (and some inconceivable) condition. Pissed him off in a controls upgrade meeting by saying "so you, as a rated control room operator, are incapable of monitoring your equipment?"

 

Is that where the term Idiot Light came from?  😀

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On 11/11/2020 at 2:17 PM, TTR said:

I believe your reference is somewhat an oxymoron. I think they're now called "technicians" (WTFTM ?)

I was in the business over 50 years. We were called technicians. Grease monkey if you didn't know what you were doing.

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On 11/11/2020 at 2:26 PM, Bhigdog said:

Dealer service dept's are there to be a profit center. To do that the turn around time has to be ASAP. Add to their overhead all the special tools both hard and soft ware that they MUST buy from the car company every year, and the rapidly and ever changing technology and you can see why they have neither the time nor interest in your old iron.

Back in the day all the cars were more or less similar and usually a problem could be found simply by looking or listening. A trained mechanic could work on pretty much anything with a set of basic tools.

Them days is gone, gone, gone................Bob

 

Try your back in the day mechanic on a 1940 HydraMatic!

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On 11/11/2020 at 2:44 PM, edinmass said:


 

Matt......Don’t worry! The warrantee will expire before you know it.........sticking the owner with the problem......that’s the “correct fix” we see from the dealerships in New England. The only down side to it is you own the car........

If he has repeatedly a problem that a dealer can't fix with a paper trail he's got lemon law protection.

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18 minutes ago, Pfeil said:

If he has repeatedly a problem that a dealer can't fix with a paper trail he's got lemon law protection.

 

 

Agreed.......but it's different in each state. In Massachusetts it is black letter law, and the dealer license on a new car is automatically suspended if they don't comply, but I am not sure if that will apply here if the car was bought in Michigan and registered in Ohio. Nothing is ever easy. To be totaly honest, I will give Matt my advice here in the open...........swap it out for a new factory car, and just keep the cool prototype wheels. I place the chances of them fixing that car at less than 15 percent. Been there, done that.......with a Chrysler that belonged to a customer. Also did it with a Nissan Maxima. 

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On 11/12/2020 at 2:34 PM, zepher said:

Modern cars are designed to make it difficult for the shade tree mechanic to work on them.

You need to invest in a really good scan tool and have lots of other specialty tools on hand.

Want to bleed or flush your ABS system?  Need a scan tool that will run the ABS pump.

Want to change brake pads on calipers that have the automatic parking brake system?  Need a scan tool to release the parking brake mechanism.

And on and on.

 

Yesterday, I changed the spark plugs on my 2002 Nissan Altima SE.

Because it has a sideways V6 the front plugs took me about 15 minutes while the rear three took me 2.5 hours.

The upper intake manifold has to come off to even see, let alone access, the rear coil packs and plugs.

There is plenty of room to use a straight upper intake like Nissan used in the 350Z (same exact engine) but instead they chose to use one that wrapped back over the rear plugs.

 

Modern cars are designed to make it difficult for the shade tree mechanic to work on them.

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Yes and no. There is usually no rebuilding of parts and usually no parts to rebuild something with so it's diagnosis and replace.

 My doctor friend once said to me, when it comes to trouble shooting he had it easier than me. I asked why and he said with a patient you have the ability to talk to them and ask questions like where is it hurting or what symptoms are you having and a car can't do that. The good news today is cars DO talk to you and that makes things easier.

 

 

 There is plenty of room to use a straight upper intake like Nissan used in the 350Z (same exact engine) but instead they chose to use one that wrapped back over the rear plugs.

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Actually there isn't enough room for a 350 intake, and the engines are not the same. Your Altima has different camshafts to go along with that intake to provide a broader torque curve for your car which is heavier than the Z. The Z relies more on peak HP than the Altima. I have the 4.1 version in a Frontier which has different cams and intake manifold for even more torque for towing. BTW that engine has been on the ten best engines ever built list for over ten years.

I realize the spark plug change on the rear cylinders for a novice can take a long time, but with the proper tools it's no great task. Since the spark plug change interval is 100K..... for some people that's ten years, heck it's not like changing a IMS on a 9 series Porsche. The important part while your in there is to change the little coolant and vacuum hoses while you have accessibility. 

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1 hour ago, 60FlatTop said:

 

I stop listening when a sentence starts with "So".

You're thinking millennial. I'm thinking Strunk & White. The sentence would neither have made sense nor had the desired impact without the coordinating conjunction "so".

 

Grammar and style lesson for today, boys and girls.

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2 hours ago, Pfeil said:

Actually there isn't enough room for a 350 intake,

 

You may want to let the guy know that swapped out the intake on his 3rd gen Altima SE with one from a 350Z.

it was tight under the hood but he had to do no hood modifications to get it done.

I saw it in person, in my driveway when he came over for an event I had at my place years ago.

He did have to custom fab the rest of the intake tubing to get the MAF and cone air filter connected but he plumbed the intake down into the fender well to turn it into a CAI.

I'd have to go back and dig through some ancient forum posts but I thought someone had looked up all the part numbers for the internals and everything was the same for both the 350 and the 3rd gen SE.

Obviously the ECU was tuned differently, and there was also the inexplicable crushed section of exhaust pipe on the 3rd gen that was not on any other car using the 3.5 VQ.

I saw a 3rd gen Alitma blow the doors off a stock 350Z, the 3rd gen had headers, exhaust and an ECU tune.  The difference between that 3rd gen and a stock 3rd gen was staggering even with the auto trans.

Biggest issue for the Altima is the poor traction due to it being FWD.  Weight transfer is not your friend when the front wheels are the ones that are supposed to do the pulling.  Adding the Maxima diff with limited slip helped somewhat but anyone that was making decent power couldn't really use it unless they were above 30mph.

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4 hours ago, zepher said:

 

You may want to let the guy know that swapped out the intake on his 3rd gen Altima SE with one from a 350Z.

it was tight under the hood but he had to do no hood modifications to get it done.

I saw it in person, in my driveway when he came over for an event I had at my place years ago.

He did have to custom fab the rest of the intake tubing to get the MAF and cone air filter connected but he plumbed the intake down into the fender well to turn it into a CAI.

I'd have to go back and dig through some ancient forum posts but I thought someone had looked up all the part numbers for the internals and everything was the same for both the 350 and the 3rd gen SE.

Obviously the ECU was tuned differently, and there was also the inexplicable crushed section of exhaust pipe on the 3rd gen that was not on any other car using the 3.5 VQ.

I saw a 3rd gen Alitma blow the doors off a stock 350Z, the 3rd gen had headers, exhaust and an ECU tune.  The difference between that 3rd gen and a stock 3rd gen was staggering even with the auto trans.

Biggest issue for the Altima is the poor traction due to it being FWD.  Weight transfer is not your friend when the front wheels are the ones that are supposed to do the pulling.  Adding the Maxima diff with limited slip helped somewhat but anyone that was making decent power couldn't really use it unless they were above 30mph.

Yes I would. I would also be interested if the mods are Emissions legal. Do you think NISSAN likes to spend money on multiple intakes for a VQ to fit in different cars. They don't.

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1 hour ago, Pfeil said:

Yes I would. I would also be interested if the mods are Emissions legal. Do you think NISSAN likes to spend money on multiple intakes for a VQ to fit in different cars. They don't.

They also don't want their 4 door family car to perform almost or just as well as their flagship sports car.

When the 3rd gen hit the market in 2002 the aging Maxima saw its sales crater since you could get a better performing car for less money with the 3rd gen.

When the Maxima was redesigned the following year sales recovered.

And no, the ECU changes were not smog legal, especially in Calif. But with the piggy back unit these guys ran the A/F ratio was spot on since they could adjust everything using their piggy back.  Some even ran larger injectors but that was usually only the guys using forced induction.

The ECU had the rev limiter removed, the spark advanced and other stuff to help them run better.

As I recall, you gave the company all the specs for your setup and they programmed the ECU to match your components.

I've installed many a set of headers on the 3rd gens, both the 3.5 and 2.5 versions.

Also done a ton of suspension work on them.

 

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12 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

 

Agreed.......but it's different in each state. In Massachusetts it is black letter law, and the dealer license on a new car is automatically suspended if they don't comply, but I am not sure if that will apply here if the car was bought in Michigan and registered in Ohio. Nothing is ever easy. To be totaly honest, I will give Matt my advice here in the open...........swap it out for a new factory car, and just keep the cool prototype wheels. I place the chances of them fixing that car at less than 15 percent. Been there, done that.......with a Chrysler that belonged to a customer. Also did it with a Nissan Maxima. 

Here's the Florida lemon law requirements, directly from:  https://www.dmv.org/fl-florida/automotive-law/lemon-law.php

 

In order for your car to be considered a lemon, the following must have occurred within 24 months following the date of delivery (the Lemon Law Rights Period):

  • The vehicle defect or condition must "substantially impair the use, value, or safety" of the vehicle.
  • The vehicle must have undergone at least 3 attempts to repair the same issue.
  • The vehicle must have out of service for repair of the defect for 15 days or more.

The first and third requirements are what protects the dealers.  The majority of crappy electronic issues may be a significant issue to the owner, but when it comes down to it, do not 'substantially impair the use, value or safety of the vehicle.  And dealers are extremely wary of the 15 day out of service requirement.  Rarely is a car left at a dealership for repair any more than a day or two.  If they can't do something with it right away, they give it back to the customer so it's not sitting on their lot racking up days. 

 

Ove the past 18 months I've had my 2019 Escalade in for repair of a half-dozen electronic issues 5 different times.  Still not fixed, and at this point, no hope of them ever being fixed.  And none 'substantially impair the use, value, or safety' of the car.  One issue is the theft alarm goes off on it's own, with no one or nothing in or around the car at the time.  This has happened multiple times.  We've observed it in an empty parking lot when the alarm activated...with horn honking, lights flashing, and text messages sent to my phone.  The service manager of the local Cadillac dealership keeps saying there's no fault codes in the computer so there's nothing he can do.  Another is the sensor which detects the key fob being left in the car.  If the key fob is left in the car, the doors refuse to lock, the lights flash, and the horn honks...or that's the way it's supposed to work.  We've had multiple occasions of not being able to lock the doors and the horn honking, even though the key fob was definitely NOT in the car.  Once was at an interstate highway rest area.  I had to leave the car unlocked while I used the rest room.  I was extremely concerned as I had several '2nd Amendment' pieces with me at the time, and there was no way I could carry them all into the restroom.  But I had no choice but to leave them in the unlocked car which has already flashed it's lights and honked it's horn notifying everyone that I'm walking away from an unlocked car.  Since then whenever it happens I've been trying different scenarios, and it seems that if I get back in the car, restart it and let it run for a bit, then shut it off again, the sensor fixes itself and I'm able to lock the car.  If not, repeat the process.  And the reverse has happened as well, once with me and once with my wife.  We each accidently left the key fob in the car, locked the car and walked away...locking the fob in the car.  That's not supposed to happen and that's the whole reason for having that sensor.  The response from the service manager was that they couldn't duplicate the problem and there were not fault codes in the computer.  So his fix was to change settings in the on-screen display for the car doors to automatically lock every time they're closed.  Nothing fixed...just masking the symptoms.  Not withstanding the fact that I don't want the doors to all lock every time they're closed.  Another problem is the car has sensors which detect when the car drifts out of lane or if changes lanes without using a turn signal.  It nudges the steering wheel back into the original lane while at the same time buzzing the seat or sounding an alarm.  On clearly marked roads, it only works about 10% of the time.  The service manager keeps telling me that I must be driving on roads with poor pavement markings as there's nothing wrong with the system.  Totally not true, but still they have not done anything to fix the problem.  The service manager tells me the same thing...that there's no fault codes in the computer, so there isn't a problem.  There's more but I won't bore you any further with the details.  We just live with it knowing that we paid $100k for a car with crappy, unreliable electronics that that don't work and they can't fix.  The auto industry's pursuit of self-driving cars is a huge joke, when the electronics they're selling right now don't work and they can't fix them.

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13 hours ago, zepher said:

They also don't want their 4 door family car to perform almost or just as well as their flagship sports car.

When the 3rd gen hit the market in 2002 the aging Maxima saw its sales crater since you could get a better performing car for less money with the 3rd gen.

When the Maxima was redesigned the following year sales recovered.

And no, the ECU changes were not smog legal, especially in Calif. But with the piggy back unit these guys ran the A/F ratio was spot on since they could adjust everything using their piggy back.  Some even ran larger injectors but that was usually only the guys using forced induction.

The ECU had the rev limiter removed, the spark advanced and other stuff to help them run better.

As I recall, you gave the company all the specs for your setup and they programmed the ECU to match your components.

I've installed many a set of headers on the 3rd gens, both the 3.5 and 2.5 versions.

Also done a ton of suspension work on them.

 

 

  So what you are saying is all these mods are illegal. That tells me they should not be on the road. Since you are in Ca. how are you getting through emission testing, especially the visual part?

 

 It's hard for me after having been in the industry for so long, and part of the time in emission certification trying to meet standards that were given to us that some outfits try to undo all that hard work. Emission wise it makes our products look bad.

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30 minutes ago, Pfeil said:

 

  So what you are saying is all these mods are illegal. That tells me they should not be on the road. Since you are in Ca. how are you getting through emission testing, especially the visual part?

 

 It's hard for me after having been in the industry for so long, and part of the time in emission certification trying to meet standards that were given to us that some outfits try to undo all that hard work. Emission wise it makes our products look bad.

 

Calif emissions are completely draconian and often arbitrary.  Just about every major emissions related part on a car is Calif only.  You have 49 state parts and Calif parts.  Guess which ones cost more?

An aftermarket intake tube is illegal unless the company pays CARB their extortion fee to get a sticker on it making it legal.

One guy bought a CARB compliant intake from AEM. The CARB cert was just a sticker that was applied to the intake. Engine compartment heat is not kind to stickers and it eventually fell off.  He contact AEM and they sent him another one but he kept it in the glove box to show the smog tech each time.  He eventually got rid of the AEM intake and bought a non CARB approved one. He kept the sticker and showed the smog tech each time. The smog techs never bothered to look up the CARB number to verify it was the correct manufacturer or part.

Same thing applies to air filters.

Calif always has one hair brained idea or another on what to do to save the environment.  Remember MTBE?  It was supposed to be the next great thing to reduce emissions. All we ended up with were dozens and dozens of water wells that we can't use because they are forever contaminated with MTBE.  That fiasco is a great study on bureaucrats doing the wrong thing because of their animosity towards one particular company and their desire to 'do something' to appease the tree huggers, facts be damned.

 

In Calif, technically, any modification to the exhaust is illegal. That would mean you have to replace any exhaust piece with one of the same OEM specs, even the mufflers, or it is illegal.

What does a muffler have to do with emissions? Same goes with suspension.  If it alters the suspension at all from stock it is illegal.  Calif has tried real hard to kill the tuner crowd but they are still out there modding their cars like people did since the automobile gained widespread use. Even with all this restriction, most the world looks to Calif and Japan for trends when it comes to tuning and modding their cars.

 

For the visual, some people would remove the factory heat shields from the cast iron manifolds and fab brackets to cover up their headers.

But with the pre-cat gone they would have to add an O2 sim to mimic the correct output from the O2 so the car would not throw a code and a MIL.

That became more difficult when Nissan switched to using wideband O2 sensors in '05.

Then, around 2004 there was a company what was making headers with a high flow pre-cat built in so it would be legal in the 49 state area.

Still, others found shops that would 'smog' their car for a higher fee.

But in Calif you don't have to worry about smog for the first 5 years so plenty of people modded the heck out of their cars for 5 years then returned it to stock and sold it to move on to something new.

With a piggy back system you could return the ECU back to stock specs with the touch of a button.

This allowed cars to pass smog and then be set back to their performance tune quite easily.

 

And BTW - the 350Z came out a year after the 3rd gen Altima and believe it or not they weighed about the same.

So Nissan fabbed a new upper intake for the Z while continuing to use the same one for the Alitma and Maxima.

The one that wrapped back over the rear bank did fit the engine compartment better but didn't flow as well so it helped to keep the family car performance below the Z.

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I don’t expect any professional mechanics today to be able to troubleshoot or repair an old vintage car. Why would they? They are busy and overwhelmed trying to keep up with all the constant changes in modern vehicles. 
 

Would you take your old rotary dial phone into the cell phone booth in the mall, and ask them to fix it?

 

These old cars are so old the systems are long gone and lost on many. We are hobbyists. We look after our own. Be proud if can keep your old car running.  In my personal opinion, if you cannot repair/maintain your own vintage car, you should think twice about acquiring one. That’s just me.
 

Hey, if you own an old Mopar and you need it fixed, and you’ve got money to burn, PM me. I’ll work for modern dealer rates. About $100/hr. USD. 
 

 

Edited by keithb7 (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, keithb7 said:

I don’t expect any professional mechanics today to be able to troubleshoot or repair an old vintage car. Why would they? They are busy and overwhelmed trying to keep up with all the constant changes in modern vehicles. 
 

Would you take your old rotary dial phone into the cell phone booth in the mall, and ask them to fix it?

 

These old cars are so old the systems are long gone and lost on many. We are hobbyists. We look after our own. Be proud if can keep your old car running.  In my personal opinion, if you cannot repair/maintain your own vintage car, you should think twice about acquiring one. That’s just me.
 

Hey, if you own an old Mopar and you need it fixed, and you’ve got money to burn, PM me. I’ll work for modern dealer rates. About $100/hr. USD. 
 

 

Or can afford someone like Ed in West Palm Beach to do it for you...when he's not tinkering with the Great White.

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2 hours ago, zepher said:

 

Calif emissions are completely draconian and often arbitrary.  Just about every major emissions related part on a car is Calif only.  You have 49 state parts and Calif parts.  Guess which ones cost more?

An aftermarket intake tube is illegal unless the company pays CARB their extortion fee to get a sticker on it making it legal.

One guy bought a CARB compliant intake from AEM. The CARB cert was just a sticker that was applied to the intake. Engine compartment heat is not kind to stickers and it eventually fell off.  He contact AEM and they sent him another one but he kept it in the glove box to show the smog tech each time.  He eventually got rid of the AEM intake and bought a non CARB approved one. He kept the sticker and showed the smog tech each time. The smog techs never bothered to look up the CARB number to verify it was the correct manufacturer or part.

Same thing applies to air filters.

Calif always has one hair brained idea or another on what to do to save the environment.  Remember MTBE?  It was supposed to be the next great thing to reduce emissions. All we ended up with were dozens and dozens of water wells that we can't use because they are forever contaminated with MTBE.  That fiasco is a great study on bureaucrats doing the wrong thing because of their animosity towards one particular company and their desire to 'do something' to appease the tree huggers, facts be damned.

 

In Calif, technically, any modification to the exhaust is illegal. That would mean you have to replace any exhaust piece with one of the same OEM specs, even the mufflers, or it is illegal.

What does a muffler have to do with emissions? Same goes with suspension.  If it alters the suspension at all from stock it is illegal.  Calif has tried real hard to kill the tuner crowd but they are still out there modding their cars like people did since the automobile gained widespread use. Even with all this restriction, most the world looks to Calif and Japan for trends when it comes to tuning and modding their cars.

 

For the visual, some people would remove the factory heat shields from the cast iron manifolds and fab brackets to cover up their headers.

But with the pre-cat gone they would have to add an O2 sim to mimic the correct output from the O2 so the car would not throw a code and a MIL.

That became more difficult when Nissan switched to using wideband O2 sensors in '05.

Then, around 2004 there was a company what was making headers with a high flow pre-cat built in so it would be legal in the 49 state area.

Still, others found shops that would 'smog' their car for a higher fee.

But in Calif you don't have to worry about smog for the first 5 years so plenty of people modded the heck out of their cars for 5 years then returned it to stock and sold it to move on to something new.

With a piggy back system you could return the ECU back to stock specs with the touch of a button.

This allowed cars to pass smog and then be set back to their performance tune quite easily.

 

And BTW - the 350Z came out a year after the 3rd gen Altima and believe it or not they weighed about the same.

So Nissan fabbed a new upper intake for the Z while continuing to use the same one for the Alitma and Maxima.

The one that wrapped back over the rear bank did fit the engine compartment better but didn't flow as well so it helped to keep the family car performance below the Z.

Don't know why you are telling me. I was in the middle of it.

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Heck I don't even trust dealers on newer cars. Of course part of my hobby is scan tools, have had since the 80's. Before that have a couple of ignition analyzers (one has the HEI adapter), also have ALDL scan tools (can reprogram those) and OBD-II tools. Found the best general purpose one, an Autel Diaglink, is often under a Benjamin. For GM to 2013, a VX Nano with Tech2Win software for a little over but can do just about everything (some requires buying a $40 license from GM).

 

For a '19 I'd register it at my.cadillac.com and report to HQ.

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4 hours ago, keithb7 said:

I don’t expect any professional mechanics today to be able to troubleshoot or repair an old vintage car. Why would they? They are busy and overwhelmed trying to keep up with all the constant changes in modern vehicles. 
 

Would you take your old rotary dial phone into the cell phone booth in the mall, and ask them to fix it?

 

These old cars are so old the systems are long gone and lost on many. We are hobbyists. We look after our own. Be proud if can keep your old car running.  In my personal opinion, if you cannot repair/maintain your own vintage car, you should think twice about acquiring one. That’s just me.
 

Hey, if you own an old Mopar and you need it fixed, and you’ve got money to burn, PM me. I’ll work for modern dealer rates. About $100/hr. USD. 
 

 

 

Very true, and as many of us would be lost if we were working on a new car

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Lamborghini was a tractor manufacturer before they started making supercars. Story is that Lamborghini got ticked off with Ferrari (I cant remember for what reason) and said he'd build his own car.

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I added a Foxwell NT680 Pro with a full set of adapters a couple years ago. I have some of the OBD1 OTC stuff. Sometimes I miss the 1970 Allen O-scope. But it really is in the approach and your personal diagnostic technique. I used to teach diagnostics as part of an apprenticeship program- "make not preconceived ideas" and follow the same sequence every time. I used to tell the class to make up the test sequence they felt comfortable with, put it on a paper in their wallet, and read it in the toilet every day. Works just fine.

Too many embrace concepts and overlook details.

 

Stories like that Esky intrigue me. Next time you see a service van with refrigeration or HVAC painted on it ask the tech if he has a Megger. Hook it to the battery cables and throw 500 volts on it. Then fix the places where smoke came out. British style. And if you can't the dealership will never figure out what you did. They will have a better basis to start with though.

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Modern dealerships are, in my experience, virtually worthless unless you are looking to purchase a new model.  Recently brought my daily driver 2009 Jeep Grand Cherokee into the local Chrysler Jeep dealer and was told that 'we don't like to work on these old models'.  It is going to be interesting how they are going to comply with the Lifetime Power Train Warranty I got from them when I bought it new from them, which requires it be submitted for an inspection (free) every 5 years.  Heaven forbid that they would have to fix something.  Even the parts departments are a joke.  Granted, the computer parts catalogues are perhaps better than the banks of 3-ring binders we used to see used by a seasoned counter man (person).  However, I can recount several instances when I was told, based upon the computer, that some part didn't exist or didn't fit my Jeep when I was standing right in front of them with the broken part in my hand.  Went home and with ten minutes on the web or ebay the correct part was on its way to me in the mail.

Cannot imagine what would happen if I pulled up in any of my 34 Mopars with a request for service.  Not going to happen.

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A buddy bought a late '20's Buick survivor and showed me a work ticket when the original owner drove the car from Colorado to Virginia, the ticket was dated in the 1950's and the Buick dealer was prepping it for the drive, they replaced 2 spark plugs, did some lubricating and adjusting, I think the bill was about $14 and change.  I can't help but reflect that that must've been quite a trip, it must've taken days.  They must've done a good job.

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3 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

ask the tech if he has a Megger. Hook it to the battery cables and throw 500 volts on it. Then fix the places where smoke came out. British style. 

All electrical equipment runs off magic smoke. When you let the magic smoke out it won't work anymore.

 

Maybe that would work for you, George.

 

Used to hate when we meggered generators and high-volt cabling and I made sure I wasn't anywhere near when we did hi-pots. And yes, sometimes we let the magic smoke out.

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After replacing the front lever action shocks on my 1939 LaSalle, I thought it would be fun to take it to my local Cadillac dealer for an alignment and see their reaction....so I did.  It's really easy to adjust for caster, camber and toe and I brought the service manual/specs with me.  They had the technician that was going to align it come out in the vehicle entrance and I walked him through the procedure.  Two issues:

1) Since they couldn't plug into my ALDL port, they had a heck of a time trying to enter my 7 digit VIN into their computer system - had to call their IT guy to come up with a solution.

2) Three on the tree?  One guy knew how to drive a stick but never a column shifter.....they asked if I would drive it onto the alignment rack and I was happy to do so. 

Once on the rack, other than reprogramming their Hunter machine with a new model with my specs (including my negative caster), it went well.  Most of the staff was out in the entrance checking the car out at one time or another - I guess a bit of a novelty for a modern dealership.

Scott

 

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Edited by Stude Light (see edit history)
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56 minutes ago, Stude Light said:

I guess a bit of a novelty for a modern dealership.

You got out without the Bump. They couldn't add extra services to the original request. No incentive for the mechanic, no commission for the service manager. Big red check mark at the Monday morning service meeting.

 

"Sir, we recommend deflating your tires and reinflating with Nitrogen. We can do that for an extra $90."

"Sorry, my factory specs recommend only 78%. Doesn't yours exceed that?"

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On 11/11/2020 at 6:03 PM, Jim Bollman said:

Hoping a NY friend reads this thread and tells about taking his 1913 T in for a NYS inspection at the Ford dealer a few years ago. He had a good time.

 

The 13 Ford only gets a safety check which is a different sticker, the dealer probably did not even have one, everything they inspect requires an emission sticker. The computer in Albany could not process the bar code on the sticker to a non-emission required vehicle. I would venture to say that the tech at the dealer probably did not even know about safety only inspections

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