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King Pins Help on 1929 U Ply


chetbrz
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It appears that the knock in my passenger side front wheel is related to the bottom bushing of the king pin.  There is a good amount of play and I can physically move the wheel back & forth and create the knock.  I guess cleaning off the protective years of grease and grime helped bring out the problem.  So I need to replace the king pin set and while I'm at it, replace the inner and outer wheel bearings. Oh yes probably should install the new brake pads I have for the front. 

 

Unfortunately I have never replaced king pins before and could use some advise.  I don't think it's difficult but I have not done a King Pin set yet.  I don't want to guess at it.  

 

1929 Plymouth U 4 door Sedan

 

To remove the Pivot Pin lock pin, Does it just hammer out or is there a set screw or trick ?.
Also which direction, see picture below:

KingPin-01.jpg

 

Any words of wisdom from them that have been there and done that, would be appreciated, Chet...

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My '33 has a lock screw/bolt so I have no experience with the setup in your car.

 

But my understanding is that those vehicles that use a pin to secure the king pin usually have a taper on the pin. If that is the case on your car, there will be a right and a wrong way to drive the pin out. You may want to carefully measure the pin diameter on each side of the steering knuckle and see if you can determine if it is tapered.

 

Looking at the illustration that @hwellens posted, it looks like there are four places the lock pin was staked at the factory. At least I am seeing four somethings around the pin. I would guess if you were staking the pin to help hold it in place then you’d stake it on the big end.

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30 minutes ago, ply33 said:

My '33 has a lock screw/bolt so I have no experience with the setup in your car.

 

But my understanding is that those vehicles that use a pin to secure the king pin usually have a taper on the pin. If that is the case on your car, there will be a right and a wrong way to drive the pin out. You may want to carefully measure the pin diameter on each side of the steering knuckle and see if you can determine if it is tapered.

 

Looking at the illustration that @hwellens posted, it looks like there are four places the lock pin was staked at the factory. At least I am seeing four somethings around the pin. I would guess if you were staking the pin to help hold it in place then you’d stake it on the big end.

 

Thanks Tod,

 

What you pointed out is my main concern.  Which way the pin comes out.  Before I start hammering this pin I need to know the direction and if anything is installed to stop the movement beside the taper lock.  Then which way the pivot shaft comes out.  Top to bottom or bottom to top. 

 

hwellens,

 

I appreciate the picture but I have this cut away.  I was hoping to find someone who has been there and done this.  

 

Tks Chet...

 

PS... The parts are in the mail.

 

 

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I have never done king pins myself either but years ago I had a GMC van that needed them.

I talked to a truck shop and the guy explained that they need to be fitted, ie reamed to fit.

I took him the whole axle assembly and he fixed me up.

I am no machinist, so was nervous about the reaming part.

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I did the king pins on my 31 a few years back and if i recall lock pins drove in from front side --it is just a tapered pin but I did have some trouble getting them out.  The bushings are in the axle after I installed them I used a brake cylinder hone to fit the pins.-- could not get king pin out of spindle after lock was removed and had to cut king pin off above and below spindle -- took me some time --Good luck Allan

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13 hours ago, chetbrz said:

Jack,

 

You are correct the bushings need to be reamed after being pressed into place.  There is a drive line shop nearby and that is always an option. 
 

Thanks Chet 

When I did the king pins on my '33 I was unable to find the correct size king pin reamer locally (pre-Internet days). I did find a local machine tool supply that had an adjustable reamer that covered the correct range. The reamer I got has a long shaft and a tapered bushing so you can keep the reamer in line with the centers of both bushings.

 

Working slowly on the first bushing, I adjusted the reamer out, made a cut, then measured everything. Repeat until the reamed bearing had the correct clearance. Once the reamer size was correct the other bushings were pretty fast work.

 

It would not surprise me if an adjustable king pin reamer is still available. But with the Internet you can probably find a source for a king pin reamer with the correct diameter. The actual job of reaming the bushings is quite easy and given what I’ve seen of your work on these forums well within your capabilities.

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32Plywood, 


Thanks for the verification on which direction the lock pin is installed.  This is what I thought but wanted verification before I try to remove it.  I would be using a ‘C’ clamp pin press to break the taper lock.   I hope I don’t have to cut the King Pin shaft.

  
Ply33,
Thanks for the vote of confidence, as always good information presented   I like using a long reamer that aligns both the top and bottom bushings.   We’ll see what I can come up with.


Plyroadking,


Thanks, I have the correct parts from a verified source.  As far as tools are concerned I have an old bushing puller set I picked up in an antique store. They had no idea what it was used for, actually got it for a song.   I’ll give you a shout if I run into a brick wall.  The items you used I might have lying around the garage.  Ingenuity is the mother of invention.   Thanks for your comments.
 

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3 hours ago, chetbrz said:

Plyroadking,


Thanks, I have the correct parts from a verified source.  As far as tools are concerned I have an old bushing puller set I picked up in an antique store. They had no idea what it was used for, actually got it for a song.   I’ll give you a shout if I run into a brick wall.  The items you used I might have lying around the garage.  Ingenuity is the mother of invention.   Thanks for your comments.
 

If I recall correctly, I used some wrench sockets and my bench vise to press out the old bushings and press in the new. I guess it depends on how tight they are if you can do that or if you need a real press with appropriate tooling.

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Here are a couple of photos from a long time ago showing the reamer I used. In these views I am working on the upper bushing and you can see a tapered collar centering the reamer shaft in the lower bushing to keep things lined up.

 

00289_s_10ag2mhlku0289.jpg

00290_s_10ag2mhlku0290.jpg

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As a young man I installed many king pin sets in early Plymouth's.  I bought the correct bushing reamer and made a king pin punch to drive the king pin out from the axle using a large sledge hammer with  a short handle  If you have never done this before you don't realize how much force it takes to drive out the old pin plus the skill to ream the new bushings.   I would suggest you remove the brake drum/backing plate,tie rod and then the axle from the car.  Take it to a local machine shop with your new king pin set and get a price on them installing the set.  They will use a press.  This would be the best money you ever spent.  Stay safe,  Life is Good.  Don

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4 hours ago, ply33 said:

If I recall correctly, I used some wrench sockets and my bench vise to press out the old bushings and press in the new. I guess it depends on how tight they are if you can do that or if you need a real press with appropriate tooling.

This is the set I found somewhere.

20201112_154508.jpg

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45 minutes ago, DFeeney said:

As a young man I installed many king pin sets in early Plymouth's.  I bought the correct bushing reamer and made a king pin punch to drive the king pin out from the axle using a large sledge hammer with  a short handle  If you have never done this before you don't realize how much force it takes to drive out the old pin plus the skill to ream the new bushings.   I would suggest you remove the brake drum/backing plate,tie rod and then the axle from the car.  Take it to a local machine shop with your new king pin set and get a price on them installing the set.  They will use a press.  This would be the best money you ever spent.  Stay safe,  Life is Good.  Don

 

You’re right getting the locking pin out was difficult.  It appears that the soft metal pin is deformed by the hardened pivot shaft.  I had to drill out most of the pin material to weaken the pin to remove it. 

The bushings are not a problem and once the locking pin was removed everything came apart effortlessly. 

See photos.

 KingPin-03.jpgKingPin-04.jpg

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28 minutes ago, chetbrz said:

 

You’re right getting the locking pin out was difficult.  It appears that the soft metal pin is deformed by the hardened pivot shaft.  I had to drill out most of the pin material to weaken the pin to remove it. 

The bushings are not a problem and once the locking pin was removed everything came apart effortlessly. 

See photos.

 

 

Interesting that your '29 has Elliot and my '33 has a Reversed Elliot. I wonder why they changed that. From what I can tell by reading on various axle and steering knuckle types there doesn’t seem to be a huge difference in the two for cost, manufacturing, etc. reasons.

 

One advantage for Reversed Elliot is that if I had to take things to a machine shop to fit new king pins I wouldn’t have to remove the axle all I’d need to take would be the steering knuckles.

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26 minutes ago, ply33 said:

 

Interesting that your '29 has Elliot and my '33 has a Reversed Elliot....

One advantage for Reversed Elliot is that if I had to take things to a machine shop to fit new king pins I wouldn’t have to remove the axle all I’d need to take would be the steering knuckles.

 

Well these King Pins have lasted 90 years.  I think when they designed the 28/29 they might have figured that 90 years was the life of the car.  The pivot shaft had little to know wear.  The bottom brass bushing had the most wear.  Getting out the locking pin is the hard part of this job, as stated earlier.

 

Thanks for the pictures.  I think I'm good from this point forward.  Hopefully get back on the road soon.

 

Many thanks to all contributors.  Chet...

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On 11/12/2020 at 4:27 PM, DFeeney said:

As a young man I installed many king pin sets in early Plymouth's.  I bought the correct bushing reamer and made a king pin punch to drive the king pin out from the axle using a large sledge hammer with  a short handle  If you have never done this before you don't realize how much force it takes to drive out the old pin plus the skill to ream the new bushings.   I would suggest you remove the brake drum/backing plate,tie rod and then the axle from the car.  Take it to a local machine shop with your new king pin set and get a price on them installing the set.  They will use a press.  This would be the best money you ever spent.  Stay safe,  Life is Good.  Don

 

Hi Don,

 

After much aggravation I think your suggestion is right on the money.  I decided after trying the best I could to remove the bushings.  I removed the driver's side wheel assembly and dropped the axel out of the car.  I will bring the new parts and axel to the drive line shop tomorrow.  While trying to remove the bushing the the puller explored a harden steel nut.  I probably should have doubled up on the top nut but surrendered instead.  I figured I gave it a good try.  In the event I did get the bushings out I didn't want to damage the new parts because I didn't have the right tools.

 

KingPin-05.jpg  

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Hello, Since you have the spindles already removed I think you will find the labor charge reasonable to install your new king pins. Also  after the new bushings  are installed they need to be reamed to the correct size.  To buy the correct reamer will be far more money than the charge to have it done.  Do you have the tire lock clamp that locks your spare tire in place? I have a extra one I'm getting to list on the forum.   Stay Safe,  Don

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   Just installed kingpins this week in the 30 DeSoto. To get the old bushings out I used a hacksaw blade and cut through one side of the bushing. They literally fell out after that and it didn't take much effort to cut through them. Made a bushing driver on the lathe and installed the new ones. Didn't have a reamer so I used one of the old pins that was a little corroded where it had been in the spindle. Cleaned it until it was just a little over sized. Then oiled the pin and bushings and gently rotated the pin back and forth and up and down until it went through the bushings. When done the new pins just slid snuggly into the bushings. After reassembling I can detect no play in the spindles. 

  Kind of a barnyard system I know but when you live on Buffalo flats you sometimes have to think outside the box. I figure they are going to last longer than I will and they are now in a lot better shape than before I started. 

 

 

  

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