Seedee Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Hey everyone! Figure I might as well start up a "restoration" thread and also introduce myself while I'm at it! So.... Long story short me and the Mrs. were going through a very dark time and were looking for an outlet so to speak. We both have been talking about wanting a classic car to restore and make a car that will "stay in the family" so to speak. I did run up into GA to look at a '38 buick roadmaster and was disappointed in the condition and on the way back into Fla I happened to stumble into what is now our 1949 Oldsmobile 88! A little back story on this vehicle is that we're the third owner since brand new. It was built at the kansas city plant and sold in kansas and stayed there it's whole life until it moved to Florida where it sat for a number of years before we got it. I wish I was able to get the original sales invoice (good luck anyways right?!) However...I did find an old piece of paper with "3569D" scribbled on it with a wax pencil and stuffed between the coils under the front seat! Here's are some pictures of the car. I'll add some more photos of the soon to be long journey back to it's former glory! And don't worry...all the chrome pieces came with the car and though these are somewhat old photos I have the major chrome back on it. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zipdang Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Great Car and Welcome!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keiser31 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Welcome to the forum! Nice ride. Hope to see it on the road and you smiling behind the wheel! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike "Hubbie" Stearns Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 Nice ride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Perkins / Mn Posted November 4, 2020 Share Posted November 4, 2020 Welcome to this forum! My Grandfather purchase a ‘49 Olds 88 new, he had it until he passed in 1969. I went for many rides in that car and loved it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John S. Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Seedee, welcome to the forum. I had a 1950 88 4 door. They are neat cars. Looking forward to you restoring the Olds. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericmac Posted November 7, 2020 Share Posted November 7, 2020 Hi and welcome! I didn't have an Olds but did have a '50 Buick, a car that is among my favorites. This era of GM vehicles seems to be over looked by many but they are great drivers. I'll look forward to watching your progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedee Posted November 11, 2020 Author Share Posted November 11, 2020 (edited) Thank you everyone for the welcome! So far the car has been rather interesting to work on! I have messed around with the timing somewhat and that whole thread can be found Here Today I've been wanting to tackle a problem that will definitely give grief down the road if I don't try to tackle it now...and that's overheating!!! I know something was amiss when you open the radiator cap and you see what appears to be chocolate milk colored coolant! (Uh oh!!) I remember reading around here that the early olds motors were prone to having a buttload of sediment in the lower block...well I took off the engine block drains aaaaand? NOTHING! Not a single drop of coolant comes out! So...that little 5 watt filament of a brain I have lights up and says...hey...blast some air in there and see what happens...I'm sure you can guess what happens next...a shower of brown muck comes flying out and I get drenched!! I must have flushed the whole block with at least 100 gallons and intermittently blast air into the drains to get more much out....it wasn't pretty, large flakes of rust and who knowa what came out! I did try to back flush the radiator but it's not looking good....worse case is a recore but I might just buy an aluminum radiator as a quick fix before I can scrounge up enough pennies for a radiator recore... I'll leave you folks with some pictures of the flushing aftermath! The picture really doesn't do any justice of how much really came out the block! Edited November 11, 2020 by Seedee (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 I know all about the rusty block issues but thought that was on the early engines. Didn’t realize the problem ran into the 50’s. At least in your case you can get an affordable OEM style recore. For my 32’ it would cost $6000 up! I luckily found another radiator out of a hot rod build to replace my blocked core. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedee Posted November 12, 2020 Author Share Posted November 12, 2020 4 hours ago, chistech said: Didn’t realize the problem ran into the 50’s I think it's because alcohol/water mix was still being widely used for engine coolant and thats probably what contributed to the heavy rust problems. I want to assume that ethylene glycol was just emerging on the market and from my service manual even says though it has superior properties it is prohibitly expensive 5 hours ago, chistech said: For my 32’ it would cost $6000 up! Ouch!! I'm glad you were able to find one, I have to double check with my radiator shop to see if they can save it which I'm sure they can for a small fee! When I have time next I'm going to fill the cooling system with thermocure and distilled water. Should be something to see what comes out 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedee Posted March 17, 2021 Author Share Posted March 17, 2021 Hey everyone!!! Definitely has been awhile, just a little update on what's been going on with the Oldsmobile! Not much but it's something. So long story short. It seem that the coolant flush I tried doing had little to no effect on getting the crud out the block...But that's fine since I'm pulling the motor and transmission out anyway. I did find a little nasty surprise hiding under the valve covers and what this motor has been through and I'm genuinely surprised that the valves has not been cooked! This is the passenger side and it's literally bone dry!!! What you see is just baked on crud. I know for a fact I'll have to pull the steel plugs out of the rocker shafts to clean them out! and that's an unholy amount of junk just sitting there!! The driver side is no better but even though that side seems to be getting oil (to some degree) the drain back holes are completely clogged! This is how the motor looka as off right now. I'm going with an aluminum radiator since the cost of a recore is way beyond my budget so I'm just going to sit the original to the side and maybe sell it as a core to someone one day or maybe recore it and reinstall. I'll eventually update you guys and gals on how the lifter valley looks once I take the manifold and the valley pan out...it's probably going to look worse down there! 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike "Hubbie" Stearns Posted March 17, 2021 Share Posted March 17, 2021 That looks bad, but it could always be worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 It’s amazing what a block looks like after coming back from a good machine shop. Most can be brought back to almost new. I had to send a 30’ chevy 194ci six to the machine shop because the owner had rebuilt it about 12-15years ago and he would start it occasionally thinking he was doing it good. All it did was pull tons of moisture into the interior of the motor and rusted everything right down to the lifters. There was an inch and a half of sludge in the pan and this was actually a fresh motor! The motor is currently at the machine shop and they have managed to save most of the prior machine work including the bores. Don’t lose faith on yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&J Posted March 18, 2021 Share Posted March 18, 2021 23 hours ago, Seedee said: The driver side is no better but even though that side seems to be getting oil (to some degree) the drain back holes are completely clogged! Just some critical info on the somewhat unusual rocker oiling system on these early Olds Rockets... When you remove the rocker shaft assembly from each head, you will see that the oil comes through one small hole under just one rocker stand. The oil comes up through that small hole in the head, then lines up with another small hole in the engine block. The hole through the head gasket is an offset passage and sometimes sludge blocks completly right at the head gasket area. Now the odd thing: The oil that gets to the rockers starts at one cam journal per side. The cam journal has a cross-drilled hole that only lines up when the cam gets in that position. It acts like a "timed" oil control, only getting oil when the holes line up as the cam turns to the right spot. >>>SO, if you were to spin the oil pump with the cam not turning, oil will never come up to the rockers like it would with most other brands of engines. Many people get fooled by this system when trying to "pre-oil" a motor that is not turning over, and they can't get oil showing at the rockers by just spinning the oil pump. That's because the holes through the cam are not aligned with the hole in the block. If you had the cam removed, you will see that just 2 of the cam bearing journals have a cross drilled oil hole. One is for the right head and other is for the left head oiling. From 49 through the later 50s, Olds kept changing the oil passages in the actual rocker itself, and also the oil groove on the rocker shaft under each rocker. The engineers were trying to cure poor rocker oiling in those years. Everything needs to be checked and cleaned to have the system work. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedee Posted March 29, 2021 Author Share Posted March 29, 2021 (edited) As promised! I return with some more photos! And boy, these do not disappoint! First up, intake manifold is off! Unfortunately the copper pipe that runs from the intake manifold to the water pump broke...my usual sources to get hard to find parts turned up nothing but fabricating a new one should be nice and easy. I opened up the blank off plates up top and what was hiding under kinda gives me a big indicator on how bad the water jackets are... mmmm....lovely! The intake manifold gaskets are very interesting to me, I've never seen this but perhaps someone can chime in So what it looks like to me is two copper plates with what I'm assuming an asbestos core? At least the part number is plainly visible perhaps someone can find out if this is original or not, so far it looks like no one has opened up the engine... Next up....the valley cover! Seems like 70 years of grime to me though some odd stuff hiding up in the far corner of the distributor shaft The valley cover gasket has basically disintegrated so I'll safely assume that pile is what's left of it... the lifters look like their pretty much toast and I'm also worries about the camshaft lobes...to me it looks like the lifters have ate through the material. Or is it just rust/varnish?? I know a definitive answer won't be known under it's pulled out but what do you think. That's about it for now and probably will be on another small hiatus. Next up on the list will be disconnecting the driveshaft from the transmission and drain/fill the rear axle with some fresh fluids. Edited March 29, 2021 by Seedee (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tate Posted March 29, 2021 Share Posted March 29, 2021 I almost wonder if that engine was run with oil that was lacking in zinc. But that’s just a guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike "Hubbie" Stearns Posted March 30, 2021 Share Posted March 30, 2021 I would suggest that an overhaul is in order. Disassemble and a good hot tank cleaning. It may take some time, but will be well worth it in the long run. Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedee Posted March 31, 2021 Author Share Posted March 31, 2021 On 3/29/2021 at 7:19 PM, Seedee said: At least the part number is plainly visible perhaps someone can find out if this is original or not So I may have figured out at least who made the gaskets! The manufacturer was "Victor Mfg & Gasket company" I've seen some catalogs on ebay and looks like they been around from at least 1910? And was absorbed by Dana which is now Victor Reinz... I have no clue if they were the original supplier for GM though... Just a photo I pulled from eBay for reference... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedee Posted May 8, 2021 Author Share Posted May 8, 2021 (edited) Just a very quick update! Although the engine and transmission still sit inside the car. (And probably will for the foreseeable future until I gain some more floorspace to work on the engine!) I've just began to collect a mixture of NORS parts and new parts while at the same time trying not to go overboard since an engine teardown and rebuild may pull up some unexpected things! I must say however I did find a supplier that seems to have a main store on eBay and have the same parts that egge has but far better prices. Their name is falcon global and out of TN if you want to check them out I just bought a new camshaft and I'm very pleased with how it looks! I'll snag some pictures later when I have the chance to! Edited May 9, 2021 by Seedee (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
8E45E Posted May 9, 2021 Share Posted May 9, 2021 Here is a restored example. Keep up the good work! Craig 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
36 D2 Coupe Posted May 12, 2021 Share Posted May 12, 2021 On 5/8/2021 at 9:20 AM, Seedee said: Their name is falcon global and out of TN if you want to check them out I just bought a new camshaft and I'm very pleased with how it looks! I'll snag some pictures later when I have the chance to! Interesting! I got most of the insides for my '36 Dodge D2 engine rebuild from Falcon. Very reasonable prices and prompt delivery. They seem to have a really broad base of engine parts in their inventory. They're worth a look. They saved me a bundle! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedee Posted September 28, 2021 Author Share Posted September 28, 2021 Hey everyone quick update on how things are progressing, slow but it's progress! I've been slowly disconnecting things to make engine removal easier. Dropped the driveshaft and changing out the u joints while I'm there. Even though the "look" ok I'm sure that the grease has all but dried up and disappeared as the u joints had cork gaskets to keep the grease inside. The transmission will need a serious degreasing once pulled out and seeing as it was shifting fine when I had the car running I'm going to pass on rebuilding the transmission. I will, however check and adjust the bands once everything is back together Right now I'm making final preparations and spraying the living daylights out of the front/rear engine mount bolts with Kroil daily so I have a fighting chance to free it from the car. Since I have not seen anywhere on YouTube or anywhere with anyone disassembling a 303 (only seen 324 etc.) I'm debating on making a somewhat "docuseries" of it and have everyone follow along and enjoy! Body wise. The mid and front floor braces will need replacing and I've found someone that fabricates them for the Chevy styleline...I know that they are built on pretty much the same chassis so I'm hoping that they will work? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedee Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 UPDATE!!! well, after a bunch of shouting many an expletives that would make even a well seasoned sailor blush and the unforseen need of removing the radiator support...I have finally....FINALLY,.got the engine out Did I say, FINALLY! Dragged the bugger in to admire the feat that was in the making for many a moons! And something made me chuckle and amazed me at the same time... How on earth did this mount not fail any sooner...it was certainly hanging on by hopes and dreams that for sure! And now you fine people, I shall revel in this accomplishment with a couple of well deserved brewskis and call it a night! Next up on the list will be disconnecting the transmission followed by mounting the engine onto the stand for disassembly 😁 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 On the transmission. There is a very good chance that the trans will fail shortly if used on a newly rebuilt engine. All the seals in the transmission are just as old and tired, due to age, as everything else. They are likely to fail. You would be wise to bite the bullet and have the tran$mi$$ion rebuilt too. All the early Olds engines are virtually identical in basic design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedee Posted October 18, 2021 Author Share Posted October 18, 2021 (edited) On 10/17/2021 at 12:12 PM, DonMicheletti said: On the transmission. There is a very good chance that the trans will fail shortly if used on a newly rebuilt engine. All the seals in the transmission are just as old and tired, due to age, as everything else. They are likely to fail. You would be wise to bite the bullet and have the tran$mi$$ion rebuilt too. All the early Olds engines are virtually identical in basic design. Yeah it might be wise to send it out to for rebuild but I'm not sure of any reputable shops that would rebuild the hydramatic. Only one I found online was out in MI. And I'm kinda worried that the throttle valve might've been damaged....the throttle input shaft had what felt like 2 stops and each end of travel and now there's total slop with a odd tight spot half way and there's way more travel in the arm so I must've snagged it pulling the engine out!! I'm sure finding a NOS or similar valve body assembly will be pretty hard but I won't know what's going on until I pop the side cover off and see what's happening Edited October 18, 2021 by Seedee . (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DonMicheletti Posted October 19, 2021 Share Posted October 19, 2021 Seedee, You are right about finding someone to do a proper job. One of the problem of all early automatic transmission cars. At least the Hydromatic was popular and used for a long time on many other makes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedee Posted October 27, 2021 Author Share Posted October 27, 2021 The disassembly continues!!! First off was the bottom bell housing cover with what was a thin metal plate the filled a gap between the bell housing and the bottom of the engine exposing the driven torus...I didn't take a picture of it but definitely had it's fair share of surface corrosion Also, one thing I didn't take a picture of was the road draft tube...it's construction is odd because I haven't seen it depicted on other 303s of this year. Mine has a canister filter right at the bracket which attaches to the bell housing. Others I've seen is just a straight tube with no filter attached ( a revised part perhaps?) I'll look into it more later... Not sure why the photo keeps getting inverted but, whatever! Slowly making progress on removing all 30 off the torus/flywheel mounting bolts. I already loosen the top bolts of the transmission/upper bell housing bolts in preparation to separate the transmission... Excuse the mess! But after a few soft taps the transmission came free of the engine! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedee Posted October 29, 2021 Author Share Posted October 29, 2021 A few more pictures as I get closer to mounting the engine onto the stand... This kind of intrigued me a bit, why would there be numbers stamped on there...only thing I can think of is to aid the assembler on the line...the front side of the flywheel where the starter engages has chewed the flywheel a bit but I should be fine. Well this is new to me! None of my manuals say anything about this shield! Suppose I should take these plugs out while I'm back here...could anyone chime in as to what these are sealing? I'm guessing oil galleys? I'll have to take real care of the square head bolt... whoever installed it rounded off the corners with their wrench so I dread to think if they torqued the daylights out of it... must've been a Friday when it was assembled! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedee Posted November 6, 2021 Author Share Posted November 6, 2021 Nothing spectacular (but to me it is!) After about a year the engine is finally on the stand! Now just need to clean up the space I have and prep for teardown, this should be fun! I did say awhile ago about chronicling the teardown on YouTube but I'm debating on HOW to do it. Either do it in Livestream segments or possibly which would be the better route,is to do a multi-part series...either way. It'll be fun to do! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pvfjr Posted November 7, 2021 Share Posted November 7, 2021 Just found your thread; well done and nice project! I'm looking forward to more progress. I've got a '48 Poncho with a Hydramatic as well, so I'll be curious to see what you end up learning there. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedee Posted November 8, 2021 Author Share Posted November 8, 2021 On 11/7/2021 at 1:36 AM, pvfjr said: Just found your thread; well done and nice project! I'm looking forward to more progress. I've got a '48 Poncho with a Hydramatic as well, so I'll be curious to see what you end up learning there. If you want to learn more about the early hydramatics there's a channel on YouTube (WeberAuto) where an auto tech teacher does an amazing job at explaining the transmission inside and out, the history of it and also disassembly and assembly! It's a 5 part series and you should definitely check it out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted November 8, 2021 Share Posted November 8, 2021 I used to restore and sell 1950-1954 M135 and M211 GMC military trucks. They had a 4 speed hydromatic trans with a 4-1 reduction unit bolted to the back for low range. I was told that the trans was the Oldsmobile trans mission and looking at your pictures, it looks like exactly what I remember. These trans use a main shaft governor for shift which cause problems for the military because of convoy speed was right the cone to clutch pack shifting speed. Constant shifting caused failure. These were easy trans to rebuild and most often the failure was due to bad material in the manufacture of the lip seals and other seals. Parts were readily available from Memphis Equipment of TN and PA. Not sure if they’re still in business but the had rebuild kits and even manual valve bodies with a shift lever so you could shift the trans as you see fit. I’m going to look for my old military rebuild manual. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedee Posted November 11, 2021 Author Share Posted November 11, 2021 On 11/8/2021 at 11:12 AM, chistech said: I’m going to look for my old military rebuild manual. I look forward to hearing what you find! I did a little searching myself for why there was a canister on the bottom of my road draft tube...and what do you know! Guess mine is the "heavy duty type" unfortunately the end of the tube that attaches to the bottom of the canister assembly has been ripped off ( which most likely happened when the driver sometime in the past hit some object and broke the exhaust and two studs on the exhaust manifold in the process) shouldn't be a problem to fabricate and fix it! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chistech Posted November 11, 2021 Share Posted November 11, 2021 (edited) Found my military repair manual. The transmission model was a 302M. It was coupled to a straight 6 302 engine and it was for the military so I assume that’s why it got that designation. On some military truck forums they say it’s the same early GM hydromatic transmission just with a reduction unit on the back. It was water cooled so it had a big heat exchanger casing on the bottom of the transmission. I have the book that explains the whole rebuilding of the transmission. It shows the valve body, main shaft governor, clutches, bands, etc. The one really cool thing about the 302M is it had a rear oil pump and if you towed the truck, it would turn the motor over to start it unlike normal autos. Edited November 11, 2021 by chistech (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedee Posted November 14, 2021 Author Share Posted November 14, 2021 I can see with the slow speeds why they would have a water-cooled heat exchanger but I bet the clutch packs and the bands were burning out left right and center too with the constant shift changes at convoy speed... I have found a very unusual part online and is currently in the mail to me. Though would be very helpful to the longevity of the top end, especially at highway speeds. It's basically an oiling system which taps into the oil canister's drain plug and supplies oil direct to the left and right rockers shafts via brass plugs driven into the front where the soft plugs would be. The oil flow is "metered" through a tee fitting with a an orifice. My only gripe per se is that I would have to cut and bend the lip of the valve covers where the pipes go through...so I may find a pair of sacrificial valve covers to cut. The manufacturer of the part wasn't in the picture but the instructions say it's part # 839... whatever that is! Guess we'll all find out when it comes in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedee Posted January 19, 2022 Author Share Posted January 19, 2022 Ok everyone, I've finally gotten around to start making videos on YouTube to chronicle the teardown of the 303! Here's a link to part 1 : I didn't realize I had my cell phone oriented the wrong way while recording (my first time making a video on YouTube mind you!) but don't fret I won't make the same mistake on the next video, but regardless. I hope you all enjoy as you join me in tearing down the engine. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedee Posted January 26, 2022 Author Share Posted January 26, 2022 Here's part 2 of the teardown! Now, a question I did ask in the video of someone could help, is decoding the "cast date" on the cylinder heads...I see ln the same format all over the block and different parts and just wondered how to decipher them Here's some photos as well! I'm getting there!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedee Posted February 3, 2022 Author Share Posted February 3, 2022 Hey everyone!!! Just a quick update for everyone, I haven't had a chance to work on the engine for part 3 of my videos (if anyone is following along!) But after some much researching I think I have found an interesting discovery... When I pulled the heads off there was a set of Victor gasket on the engine. And from what I have found GM was using Victor gaskets as part of their OEM line. So deducing from that my logic tells me that this engine has not been completely torn down and I am the first to do so which to me, is very exciting! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seedee Posted April 9, 2022 Author Share Posted April 9, 2022 (edited) Another quick update!!! Still working on part 3 I've made some progress and a ghastly discovery... It looks like everything upfront has been completely starved of lubrication! The chain is barely hanging on and with a good push from one finger the timing chain almost comes off! From what I've read in the books there's a 1/16" hole drills through the camshaft thrust plate to the right side main oil galley and "supplies continuous oil to lubricate the timing chain, gears and eccentric cam." Yeah...sure! Must've clogged up eons ago! And for an extra dose of anxiety there's heaping piles of rust flakes in the corner and into the oil pan! 😬 How long has the engine REALLY been sitting?! So much gunk and rust! The front main seal was completely shot but why would it matter it wasn't getting oil to the front anyways!!! I'm sure the oil feed to the distributor gear is clogged as well as that's a 1/16" hole as well! Next step will be to pull the crankshaft timing gear off with the puller and then hopefully more filming to complete part 3. Edited April 9, 2022 by Seedee (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike "Hubbie" Stearns Posted April 9, 2022 Share Posted April 9, 2022 Looks like a complete tear down and a hot bath is in order to me. Mike 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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