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Don't let anyone drive your early cars, especial brass cars. BIG NO NO


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I don’t drive customer’s cars.

 

I will help a customer tow a car to the back of my trailer to load or tow from the back of my trailer to where the car needs to go once I unload If it can’t be driven.

 

All loading and loading I do is by remote controlled winch.

 

I have transported many Early Brass Cars over the years - that is why my trailer has an 8 foot rear clearance.


This afternoon I loaded up this 1933 Ford Phaeton from The Jay Hertz Collection in Albuquerque:

 

18533535-BCAF-4326-8140-A69F1FDCB530.thumb.jpeg.232395655d5fe26439cafaf08bddac14.jpeg
 

I am taking it to the Early Ford V-8 Foundation Museum in Auburn Indiana.

 

There it will join “ Alexander “

the 1904 Ford Model B which 

I have transported personally over 4000 miles to date:

 

88B0C9CA-A179-4A93-B3E1-6DB41D7095ED.thumb.jpeg.30fade6eca3a5639f6501366bc9d5a91.jpeg
 

This will be the seventh car that I have safely transported to that museum.

 

 

Jim

Edited by Trulyvintage (see edit history)
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On 10/30/2020 at 12:33 PM, alsancle said:

There are a lot of complicated cars to drive,  the brass ones with reverse pedals come to mind, but it depends on who the driver is.    One of my best car experiences ever was a friend letting me drive his Model J during the dawn patrol at Pebble.   I didn't want to do it for all the reasons mentioned previously (i.e. something going wrong)  but he forced me and it was AWESOME.  Will never forget it.

 

 

IMG_2148.JPG

DuesenbergAtPebble.jpg


 

Your very lucky you have a  friend like that..........I question his judgment! Maybe you should buy him dinner every time you see him at a car show.......just saying!

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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Wouldn't bother me if someone had an equivalent car or experience, but then again my car isn't worth anywhere near what your guys cars are worth. The cadillac is probably a bit easier than a lot of other cars of the period because it has 'modern' controls, though mine is LHD which adds some complexity (doesn't bother me because of how narrow it is) 

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A few years back I had aN older friend, John Nicolaci, who was sick with leukemia and he called me, asking me to come pick up his Ferrari so I could bring it back to my house. He wanted me to sell it for him so his wife wouldn’t have to deal with selling it herself. He called me on Sunday evening and I told him I could come on Wednesday morning to pick it up. It was a car custom built for him as you can tell by his name, he was Italian, had flown to Italy, went to the Ferrari factory and had it spec’d out his way, then he arranged his own shipping here.  I really didn’t want to drive it but realized my friend was asking for help. I was kind of in a difficult spot as I didn’t want anything to go wrong but also knew the right thing was to agree to drive to my house. A buddy was going to drop me off and Wednesday was the soonest he could do it. I called john on Monday morning telling him I would be by at 10am on Wednesday and he said I’ll see you then. On Tuesday night his wife called me to say John had passed. It was a pretty somber moment and something I’ll never forget. The good news is one of the son in laws decided he was up to the task of being the Ferrari’s caretaker so it ended up staying with the family.

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11 hours ago, alsancle said:

There are at least 20 guys on this forum,  maybe more, some of which I have never met in person that I would let drive any of my cars.    I guess the key thing for me is a known quantity,  somebody I have some kind of relationship with even if it is only from the forums.   You can tell who the idiots are... usually.. even over the internet.

 

Also,  to echo what Dave said.   I would never ask to drive someone else's car - I would wait for the offer.    And I'm thinking that all the guys on here I like would probably act accordingly.

 

You had a great view of me driving, from the luxury of the jump seat or back seat, so how'd I do?  😁

We made it back in one piece.  👍

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11 hours ago, padgett said:

Personally would never ask to drive someone else's car. Too many things could go wrong and would feel responsible.

 

My grandfather bought the Pierce I own when I was an infant.

I grew up with the car.

There were plenty of times that I drove the car with just my dad or by myself when my grandfather couldn't join us for whatever reason but I never drove the car with him in it.

One night we were at a small car show not far from his place and he asked me if I wanted to drive the car home.

I politely declined telling him that I would never be able to live with myself should something go wrong while I was behind the wheel and he was sitting right next to me.

Since that time I have put hundreds and hundreds of miles on the car but I still never drove with him in the car.

I let my dad chauffeur my grandfather around while I rode in the back.

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With our local club we used to spend the occasional afternoon driving each others cars on country roads (model T's to Rolls Royce) and it is great fun. I also enjoy being in the passenger seat watching the driver in sync with their automobile.

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Around 20 years ago, when I was looking to buy my first antique car, I met a guy at a local car show who had a few cars like what I was looking to buy -- a '49 Cadillac. I had never driven one. He invited me to his house and let me take out his cars to get a feel for them, with him in the passengers seat.   I remember the thrill of driving his spectacular '49 convertible and feeling that I had to buy one.  And I also remember the terror when I misjudged the brakes and overshot a turn a bit, leading him to scream out immediate instructions of what to do to correct for it.  I think I lost about a pound in perspiration within 60 seconds.

 

The happy end of the story is that I did buy my own '49 Cadillac about a year later, and I enjoyed hanging out with him at shows for years.  But I never forgot both sides of that drive, and I'm sure he didn't, either.

 

 

Edited by 1935Packard (see edit history)
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8 hours ago, edinmass said:


 

Your very lucky you have a  friend like that..........I question his judgment!


Eddy,  you remember I was terrified.   He wasn’t going to take no for an answer.

 

btw, that wasn’t isn’t the biggest reason to question his judgement. 😀

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  I have many fond memories of driving brass era cars that others owned. I think it’s  the best way to get someone interested the hobby. We face an uphill battle to expose people to early cars and joys of touring. 
   We are after all just temporary cars takers of these cars.  Don’t let one bad experience dampen your enthusiasm for getting others behind the wheel. 

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If you have a set, it’s probably because of the unavailability of tires back in the 50’s or 60’s. Often times wheels were swapped out for ones that tires were available. 

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1 minute ago, 1937hd45 said:

Driving a car doesn't make it look any better that it is in the garage or on show field. 

 

Bob 

 

Bob,  I don't disagree and I'm a big believer in projects that are just garage art.   The problem is when you actually start working on them.   But after about 15 years of somebody on this forum beating me about driving cars I've come around in the last few and did my first tour.   This fall my dad and I have been trying to drive something every nice day.   If you can drive them,  then you have added more dimensions to the fun.   They still look good on the show field and in the garage... that doesn't go away.

 

On the subject of this thread,   all cars are just mechanical devices that can always be fixed.   Most guys don't own cars they can't afford to fix.

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AJ - It’s a time and money issue. We all seem to have much less time than we used to have, add in the increasingly expensive restoration and repair costs.........actually, once a car is fully sorted......the cheapest way to store it is drive it ten miles every month. Running cars need much less attention and money then trailer queens and garage rats.

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They may look good in the garage, show field or driving them but they are a lot more fun going down the road!  At least at the level of old car I can afford and still be allowed in the same house as my wife. 
dave s 

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From my observation sight is the least credible of the human senses. Anything seen must also be augmented by the sense of touch. That's very common with hobby cars and I am sure most have experienced it any time other people are near their car.

 

After touch, driving would bring in more senses and sensations, probably overwhelming them. The last time someone drove one of my cars he was looking the dashboard over so intently we had to change drivers.

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11 hours ago, 4Hud said:

I also enjoy being in the passenger seat watching the driver in sync with their automobile.

 

That reminded me of a tour a couple of years ago, a good friend was navigating for me in the front seat of my '31 Pierce.  I met the car in 1966, bought it in 1984, so it and I are old friends.

 

We pulled up to one of the stops, guy showed us where to back in the car, I went forward, very smoothly went into reverse, and immediately started backing up.  My navigator was wide eyed, and said oh my gosh, you really know where your car is and where the back end will be, very impressive....most people are hesitant with their cars when backing up..I told him I knew the car pretty well by this point...

 

I know it sounds like a little thing, but it was a nice compliment...and goes along with your "driver in sync" comment.

 

Also reminds me of the people backing out of grocery store parking spots, little bitty car, but one would think they had a semi trailer behind them they're going so slow...I know, I know, don't want to run over anybody...

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On 10/30/2020 at 9:35 AM, CatBird said:

Don't let anyone drive your early cars, especial brass cars. BIG NO NO

I often asked by people to drive one of our early cars. A guy, who is quite knowledgeable on 1940s-1950s cars. He fell in love with our 1913 Marmon Speedster 48B. I took it out and pointed it out down a straight stretch of road. 

Showed him the foot feed and leave the throttle control on the steering wheel alone.

He got in the car, I started it and told him to go very slow. As he settled in and caught his sleeve on the throttle control, and went wide open! My heart about stopped! 9.5 liter engine is very powerful and on a lightweight speedster chassis.

Took off like a bolt of lightning! About a block away he got it stopped by brakes and disengaging the clutch with the throttle still wide open. I heard the engine screaming as it overrevved.  Fortunately this Marmon has a pressurized oil system. The engine was ok.

He didn't apologized and just made a few remarks, and asked if he could drive another car of ours. Actually wanted to take one home and give his mother for a ride. He is about 50.

I told him that an engine like this would cost about $150,000 to $250,00 or more to restore if a major catastrophe AND could take perhaps two years to put it back together. He said he would be more careful with another of our cars. HAH!

Some of this is that he was not knowledgeable with brass cars. I could understand. But his nonchalant attitude (he thought I must be joking about costs of a brass car. restoration cost of the Marmon was over $400,000), but could not forgive that he then wanted to take this car or one like it home to give his mother a "joy-ride."

There were two morons in this equation. Me and him. I sure learned a very good lesson! The woman in the picture was a model at a Concourse.

Marmon Amzon Drive.jpg

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75406511_3851665238192195_5120326144750518272_o.jpg

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like that you didn't join him going around the block. This is not the type of vehicle that you let someone drive without supervision. 

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I like rear view cameras. Wireless are easy to bolt on and many go one the license plate. Even had one on my travel trailer but had to go 802.11 to get the range I needed.

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I have always said that I would rather have the worst car on a club tour, than the best car in a garage.

Been too long now, but I used to have other people drive some of my cars. Although I tend to be too nervous to allow them to take it for very long without me. I have always encouraged kids to sit in them. I also tell them that it is only to be done when the car's owner says it is alright, never without permission.

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Having several 7 pass cars a Yellowstone bus and a Stanley MT.  wagon I always seem to have people along for a ride. When people see the Stanley they always ask how can you drive this thing. I tell them it's the easiest car I have to drive it's just the hardest to operate. I even let the ones that I can tell have a real interest in old cars drive it but only if I am with them to operate it.

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On 10/30/2020 at 9:55 AM, trimacar said:

I think the key is that it's OK to let someone drive one of your cars, IF they know what they're doing and have a track record.  I have some good friends quite versed in the old car hobby, they could drive.  Otherwise, just tell them "my insurance won't allow it" and move on.  

 

David is absolutely right !

 

Back when he lived in Louisiana, he once had me drive his '09 Sears. After he properly taught me all of the controls, I was at the helm (tiller?), and started slowly enough on the dirt/gravel area of his family business. Controls on this type of car are very different from anything to which I was accustomed, and even while being extremely cautions, got things backward for a moment, turning at a speed, faster than I felt appropriate for a highwheeler. David was, of course, diplomatic, but I was shocked and remorseful, even to this day, at how quickly things might have gotten out of hand. Of course I still appreciate the opportunity, and the guidance at the chance to drive that car, and to this day I fondly recall the experience. 

Edited by Marty Roth (see edit history)
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On 10/30/2020 at 12:41 PM, John_S_in_Penna said:

Catbird, you've been on our forum for quite some time.

I remember you building up your collection of interesting

and historic cars.  You've clearly learned a lot, yourself.

 

This incident must be very fresh in your mind.  But I'll

have to say that neither you, nor the interested onlooker

with the loose sleeve and a lack of knowledge of value,

are morons!  I agree with you that we shouldn't let the

inexperienced learn on valuable old cars.  But keep this man

around--as a passenger.  If he has children, let them ride

in the back seat too.  

 

I didn't drive an early car until I bought my own.

Develop his interest.  Then when he's ready for an early car,

you can teach him to drive one--in his own early car!


Most people, the HUGE majority are very respectful of the old cars. I always allow people to sit in one and I take pictures with their mobile. Never had a problem. This guy is odd and disrespectful on the whole. Irritating is the best 'compliment' I can find. He has been banned from several forums. And from several car clubs.

He is also disrespectful to woman. At a car event he latched onto a friend's wife. Insulting her, thinking he was just being playful. He is loud and vocal. Her husband was getting mad, but his wife said she would handle this.

Though she is about 5 inches shorter than the guy, she warned him to back off and she hit him hard in the face enough to knock him down to the ground and bloodied his nose. He got back up and began again 'teasing' her and she hit him again enough to knock him to the ground, again. He walked away completely puzzled, but he shut up.

His only saving grace is that he will help you anytime you ask, he knows 1950s and 1960s Cars very well. 

But he is one person from the hundreds of people I know in the "Hobby" who is a complete jerk.

This event has not in the slightest poisoned me to enjoying the hobby. I wrote him off and that was that. Almost every people we know are certainly "odd", we all in the Hobby fit that moniker!

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I have gained some good feedback from this post. I have been suggested to remove the knobs on the hand throttle where clothing can get caught.

In the event that someone ask to drive my cars (and he is the very first who asked), I will first ask if they have driven a specific car like mine? And will they sign over their house to me as collateral? 

Just grinning right now, putting this event in the past and reiterate that the people in the hobby are great, kind, caring, sharing, respectful and these I focus upon and love.

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The last paragraph of both your last two post say what a good person you are and we all should try to be like. Hope to meet you in person some day and maybe get a ride in one of your cars. I wouldn’t dream of driving one. 
dave s 

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23 hours ago, edinmass said:

AJ - It’s a time and money issue. We all seem to have much less time than we used to have, add in the increasingly expensive restoration and repair costs.........actually, once a car is fully sorted......the cheapest way to store it is drive it ten miles every month. Running cars need much less attention and money then trailer queens and garage rats.

 

You are the dude on the right whacking everyone with your cane.  Why no time?

 

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/1b/dd/86/1bdd869e28a41cddd0a04c94c49d3ea8.jpg

 

 

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12 hours ago, Marty Roth said:

 

David is absolutely right !

 

Back when he lived in Louisiana, he once had me drive his '09 Sears. After he properly taught me all of the controls, I was at the helm (tiller?), and started slowly enough on the dirt/gravel area of his family business. Controls on this type of car are very different from anything to which was accustomed, and even while being extremely cautions, got things backward for a moment, turning ata speed, faster than I felt appropriate for a highwheeler. David was, of course, diplomatic, but I was shocked and remorseful, even to this day, at how quickly things might have gotten out of hand. Of course I still appreciate the opportunity, and the guidance at the chance to drive that car, and to this day I fondly recall the experience. 

I had to make an evasive maneuver with the Sears one time, unlike a steering wheel, with a tiller a real good push will almost instantly bring front wheels to lock.  At speed, it’s amazing how far the hub on a high wheeler can deflect from plane of rim in such a situation, and spring back.

 

No worries, Marty, I did it too!

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9 hours ago, CatBird said:


Most people, the HUGE majority are very respectful of the old cars. I always allow people to sit in one and I take pictures with their mobile. Never had a problem. This guy is odd and disrespectful on the whole. Irritating is the best 'compliment' I can find. He has been banned from several forums. And from several car clubs.

He is also disrespectful to woman. At a car event he latched onto a friend's wife. Insulting her, thinking he was just being playful. He is loud and vocal. Her husband was getting mad, but his wife said she would handle this.

Though she is about 5 inches shorter than the guy, she warned him to back off and she hit him hard in the face enough to knock him down to the ground and bloodied his nose. He got back up and began again 'teasing' her and she hit him again enough to knock him to the ground, again. He walked away completely puzzled, but he shut up.

His only saving grace is that he will help you anytime you ask, he knows 1950s and 1960s Cars very well. 

But he is one person from the hundreds of people I know in the "Hobby" who is a complete jerk.

This event has not in the slightest poisoned me to enjoying the hobby. I wrote him off and that was that. Almost every people we know are certainly "odd", we all in the Hobby fit that moniker!

 

 

It sounds as though he may have Asperger's. It is an autistic spectrum disorder. Asperger's has only been seriously studied and diagnosed for a bit over thirty years now. It is very likely that my dad had Asperger's, but was never diagnosed. Asperger's tend to be very socially awkward, not understanding boundaries, or social norms. Asperger's very often don't know the difference between being cute or funny, and being downright rude. Asperger's generally tend to be highly intelligent, sometimes even genius level IQs. And very often they can be very kind and helpful (if you can deal with their control and other issues?). My dad was like that. I often describe him as being "an extreme personality". He could be the nicest, kindest and most helpful person you ever knew. Or he could be a total jerk. He was in so many ways one of the smartest people you ever met. Or he could be as dumb as a stump.

They may or may not be good people. They are almost always very difficult to deal with.

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I disagree - you want people to drive car, but you want to drive it first with them watching and then you wan to be next to them while they do it.  We use to borrow cats from local club members for AACA tours and also borrow cars that were for sale via Leo Gephart (and bought a number via borrowing them). 

 

 

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5 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

I often describe him as being "an extreme personality". He could be the nicest, kindest and most helpful person you ever knew. Or he could be a total jerk. He was in so many ways one of the smartest people you ever met. Or he could be as dumb as a stump.

They may or may not be good people. They are almost always very difficult to deal with.

Wayne knows exactly what he is talking about.  I would say the person who drove that car was not being rude, rather just acting in a normal manner for himself. I'm glad you didn't loose your temper with him. 

Edited by Fossil (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, Fossil said:

 

Wayne knows exactly what he is talking about.  I would say the person who drove that car was not being rude, rather just acting in a normal manner for himself. I'm glad you didn't loose your temper with him. 

 

It sounds as if you may have had some experience in these matters as well? Somehow, I have had to deal with several people in my life that had Asperger's.  My experiences with my dad prepared me well to do so.

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10 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

We use to borrow cats from local club members for AACA tours...

 

That's a new take on the hobby:  Getting a feline club

and an automotive club together for some activity.

I suppose a cat riding next to you could be soothing.

But I'd be wary of taking someone's tabby cat for a ride,

hoping he wouldn't scratch the leather upholstery...

 

(Sorry, John, I was in a humorous mood this morning!)

 

Edited by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)
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41 minutes ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

 

That's a new take on the hobby:  Getting a feline club

and an automotive club together for some activity.

I suppose a cat riding next to you could be soothing.

But I'd be wary of taking someone's tabby cat for a ride,

hoping he wouldn't scratch the leather upholstery...

 

(Sorry, John, I was in a humorous mood this morning!)

 

To keep from hijacking this thread, I replied in Miscellaneous Humor and Videos.

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Eagerness to take charge of someone's pride and joy should be taken as a warning sign that over confidence is in control. In the end we as owners are responsible for the outcome any decision. It would be hard not to blame someone who was driving our car when in fact we let them do it. 

It's so hard to say no sometimes. 

 

 

Edited by Fossil (see edit history)
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On 10/31/2020 at 8:24 AM, 1937hd45 said:

Driving a car doesn't make it look any better than sitting in the garage or on a show field. 

 

I disagree, it looks much better driving than sitting in a garage or on a show field, especially if you have the view from the front seat (driver or passenger).

 

I once got to drive a 4 speed 68 Hemi Roadrunner. They do not excite me looking at them at shows, but from the driver's seat? Priceless!👍

 

Oh, that one got so high in value the owner never even drives it anymore. So sad.😪

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9 minutes ago, Frank DuVal said:

 

I disagree, it looks much better driving than sitting in a garage or on a show field, especially if you have the view from the front seat (driver or passenger).

 

I once got to drive a 4 speed 68 Hemi Roadrunner. They do not excite me looking at them at shows, but from the driver's seat? Priceless!👍

 

Oh, that one got so high in value the owner never even drives it anymore. So sad.😪

 

I know a bunch of guys that beat the livin sh*t out of 2 million dollar Duesenbergs.  If a guy with a 100K Hemi is scared to drive it he should sell it to somebody that will use it.

 

EDIT:  Disclaimer:  although on the other hand, I'm the first one that will tell you that you can do whatever you want with your own car - so above comment is out of character for me.  😁

Edited by alsancle (see edit history)
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