BobinVirginia 195 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) They’re a dream car for me and I’ve never seen one in person. Where is the best place to see one in person in the Mid-Atlantic region? I’d love to fabricate one from scratch. Such a cool and unusual car! Edited October 30, 2020 by BobinVirginia (see edit history) Link to post Share on other sites
8E45E 1,111 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 IF you want to snowbird, there is this one in Reno. Craig 1 Link to post Share on other sites
John_S_in_Penna 3,238 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 The late Walt Seeley was a specialist in American Underslungs, and had at least one nicely restored example. The one I saw was light blue in color. He passed on at least 10 years ago, but was a member of the Chautauqua Lake Region of the A.A.C.A. in southwestern New York. I don't know where his cars went. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
alsancle 4,695 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 You can buy this one. You just have to cast a new engine (if you care enough). The price is commensurate with the engine swap. https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/american-underslung/traveler/2420107.html Seller’s Description: 1910 American Underslung Traveler touring car. Powered by period correct Continental 50hp engine, but have several castings and molds to build a Teeter-Hartley. Diff also incorrect but runs and drives well. Price: $250,000 Negotiable 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
A. Ballard 35R 261 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 The Simeone Foundation in Philadelphia has one on display. I'm sure that there are others in your area but I don't know them. One of Fred Simeone"s people could probably help you. 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Matt Harwood 11,862 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 1 hour ago, 8E45E said: IF you want to snowbird, there is this one in Reno. Craig 2 Link to post Share on other sites
8E45E 1,111 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said: And HUGE! 2 Link to post Share on other sites
edinmass 11,202 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) My opinion of them is not very high......I have worked on them. Others will bash me..... I thought the mechanical quality was lacking, and rather crude. Give me a Packard, Peerless, Pierce, Simplex, ect...........I'll pass on the underslung. More legend and myth than car........just my two cents. The fact the above car has a different engine in it, and needs new castings speaks volumes. I see them on and off trailers......very few are ever driven extensively from my experience. Ok....start shooting at me now...... And yes....they look very neat.......I get it. Edited October 30, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history) 4 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Perkins / Mn 576 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 1 hour ago, John_S_in_Penna said: The late Walt Seeley was a specialist in American Underslungs, and had at least one nicely restored example. The one I saw was light blue in color. He passed on at least 10 years ago, but was a member of the Chautauqua Lake Region of the A.A.C.A. in southwestern New York. I don't know where his cars went. The saga of the American Underslung was published in two issues of the AACA Antique Automobile magazine back in ‘79-‘80. One of my favorite stories of one of my favorite cars. Great looking cars but as far as driving one.........no idea. This one sold for 1.6 million a few years ago. One of Walt Seeley’s restorations. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
edinmass 11,202 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) That might be the one I worked on........1.6 sounds high to me....but I don't follow them. The one we were working on had clutch issues.....it seemed someone did their version of an upgrade........it wasn't a good idea. Edited October 30, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history) 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
JV Puleo 3,995 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 47 minutes ago, edinmass said: My opinion of them is not very high......I have worked on them. Others will bash me..... I thought the mechanical quality was lacking, and rather crude. Give me a Packard, Peerless, Pierce, Simplex, ect...........I'll pass on the underslung. More legend and myth than car........just my two cents. The fact the above car has a different engine in it, and needs new castings speaks volumes. I see them on and off trailers......very few are ever driven extensively from my experience. Ok....start shooting at me now...... And yes....they look very neat.......I get it. Interesting...there is one on display at the Audrey Museum in Newport, RI. Several years ago it was at the Newport Motor Car Festival and I was looking at it with a friend - the owner of several very significant big HP brass cars and long-time participant in major tours. He said to me (his voice lowered so we couldn't be overheard) "I wouldn't trust it to go 100 yards down the road." I suspect he was referring to the six-figure restoration that had largely ignored it's mechanical aspects but it was an interesting observation on a car that had brought in excess of 1 million dollars. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
edinmass 11,202 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 If I were spending seven figures on an early car.......it would be a Simplex, and nothing else. 1 1 Link to post Share on other sites
1937hd45 3,143 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) Note the Michelin artwork on the trailer, neat stuff. Bob Edited October 30, 2020 by 1937hd45 (see edit history) 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BobinVirginia 195 Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 Well, thanks for all the comments! The look of an Underslung is obviously what has fascinated me. They’re way cool looking cars! I’ve never actually laid eyes on one and couldn’t say anything for how they actually perform. That’s what I find is really great about this forum, people that have actually been there done that. The price of them is prohibitive for me even at $250K so they’ll just remain something I appreciate from a distance. I would like to build a replica with modern driveline that a guy could actually get out and enjoy without busting a seven figure car!!! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
58L-Y8 1,542 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 To be a bit crass, that underslung frame must have been useful for sledding along on the deeply-rutted, muddy roads of that largely unpaved era... No brickbats, please... 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites
A. Ballard 35R 261 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) Definitely great looking cars but I've yet to hear anyone who liked driving one. Unlike Simplex, Mercer, Lozier, Locomobile, Stutz, Thomas, National, Alco, and other early competition cars, I can't find a single record of an American winning an event. Yes Ed, Simplexes are great cars, I'll stick to a T-Head Mercer as the early easy, fun to drive, amazing handling, American car ot the era. Edited October 30, 2020 by A. Ballard 35R wording corrected (see edit history) 2 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BobinVirginia 195 Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) Sounds like they’re cool to look at but that’s about it. They’re more novelty than refined driver’s car. The price means I’ll just keep looking at them anyway. Lol I’d worry myself crazy having a car that expensive! Edited October 30, 2020 by BobinVirginia (see edit history) Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Man 605 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Coker has one in Chattanooga TN. in his car collection, you can walk right up to it in his museum. https://cokermuseum.com/ Coker 1913 American Underslung 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Terry Bond 1,753 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Don't forget to include the Regal Underslung - great cars! Terry 1 Link to post Share on other sites
padgett 2,039 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Right up there with the Octoauto. Link to post Share on other sites
BobinVirginia 195 Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 13 minutes ago, padgett said: Right up there with the Octoauto. I had to look that up. I’d never heard of it. Crazy design for sure! Link to post Share on other sites
TAKerry 368 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Bob, if you ever get the chance to get to Philly the Simeone is a great place. Like was mentioned above, they have one in their collection. Until you stand beside one you cannot appreciate the size of these auto's. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
edinmass 11,202 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 3 hours ago, A. Ballard 35R said: Definitely great looking cars but I've yet to hear anyone who liked driving one. Unlike Simplex, Mercer, Lozier, Locomobile, Stutz, Thomas, National, Alco, and other early competition cars, I can't find a single record of an American winning an event. Yes Ed, Simplexes are great cars, I'll stick to a T-Head Mercer as the early easy, fun to drive, amazing handling, American car ot the era. I grew up around some fantastic Stutz cars.......so, nothing is worser than a Mercer! 👍 3 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Man 605 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) My son wants to build one.....1911 Reeves built on a 1910? Oakland car. I bet the patent is available on line for the drivetrain? The claim to fame was "railroad suspension" so by definition the 4 wheels on each end would pivot on a third center axle....like to see a picture from the bottom. 1910 Oakland (dash looks wrong), just buy a couple axles, add 4 wheels and extend the fenders... Edited October 30, 2020 by Graham Man (see edit history) 1 Link to post Share on other sites
A. Ballard 35R 261 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 35 minutes ago, edinmass said: I grew up around some fantastic Stutz cars.......so, nothing is worser than a Mercer! 👍 You gotta be nutz to drive a Stutz! 1 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Graham Man 605 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Found a high resolution picture check out the rear suspension....front uses the same double spring arrangement 1 Link to post Share on other sites
AHa 531 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) The Octoauto still exists. Why not buy the car and restore it? I was also advised not to buy an American Underslung when one was offered to me. I was also advised not to buy a Duesenberg. Told they steer like a truck. Edited October 30, 2020 by AHa (see edit history) 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BobinVirginia 195 Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 37 minutes ago, AHa said: The Octoauto still exists. Why not buy the car and restore it? I was also advised not to buy an American Underslung when one was offered to me. I was also advised not to buy a Duesenberg. Told they steer like a truck. That still exists!? Where is it? Wish I could have either of the Duesenberg or Underslung. Cars that are beyond my reach but I enjoy learning about and seeing. That octoauto would be something to see for sure! Link to post Share on other sites
JV Puleo 3,995 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, BobinVirginia said: I would like to build a replica with modern driveline that a guy could actually get out and enjoy without busting a seven figure car!!! If I were to undertake such a project, I'd buy some wreck of a brass car - something that is realistically beyond restoration – and either make a new frame or modify an existing one. I think that would actually be easier than trying to find miscellaneous parts that would work and far more interesting to own and drive than a fake brass car with a modern drive train. Edited October 30, 2020 by JV Puleo typo (see edit history) 2 Link to post Share on other sites
AHa 531 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) You'd have to start with something that had a flat frame. That limits your options. Then you've got to come up with some 40" wheels and tires. Might be cheaper to just buy the Traveler offered above. The regal underslung might be a better option. Some Ford, model Ts have been underslung, probably your best option, and I suspect plans to undersling a T model could be found. You could build a Chevy four and use chevy drive train and a model T frame. You might get away with 26" wheels. It would be doable. Last I knew, the Octoauto was in private hands and disassembled. It was offered to me but the period literature said it was impractical. I passed. Edited October 30, 2020 by AHa (see edit history) 1 Link to post Share on other sites
JV Puleo 3,995 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 I have thought about projects like that - when I was younger and had a lot more years ahead of me. I often drove past an abandoned drive-in theater in my town. Near the entrance was an abandoned shovel-nose Mack truck, tipped on its side - all that was left was the chassis but that was more or less complete. I could have had it for the asking...in fact, my cousin did ask about another wrecked truck on the property and they gave it to him. That's the sort of thing I have in mind but I doubt it would be free today even though the cost of bringing it back to any degree of usefulness is much greater now. Bob...since I know you are a machinist, give some thought to taking on one of these projects that will require a lot of clever machine work - something that is well beyond 99% of the old car enthusiasts and far too expensive to have someone else do. It's really the "ticket of entry" into the world of big, early cars for folks like us who are unlikely to ever have a six-figure disposable income. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BobinVirginia 195 Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) 38 minutes ago, JV Puleo said: If I were to undertake such a project, I'd buy some wreck of a brass car - something that is realistically beyond restoration – and either make a new frame or modify an existing one. I think that would actually be easier than trying to find miscellaneous parts that would work and far moeer interesting to own and drive than a fake brass car with a modern drive train. That’s the hot rod guy in me! Would be interesting either way. The reason I would make one is I have a hard time with modifying such early cars. (Including a basket case car) I feel like they need to exist as they were. Or at least get parted to help other cars live on. It’s an idea I’ve had on a couple cars actually. First I need to get my Haynes going and perhaps one day maybe after I retire I’ll take on something like that. Hopefully I can make it a reality one day Edited October 30, 2020 by BobinVirginia (see edit history) 1 Link to post Share on other sites
John_S_in_Penna 3,238 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, AHa said: The Octoauto still exists. I doubt that the Octoauto exists--according to an authoritative article in Automobile Quarterly, years ago, only one Reeves car exists today, a conventional 4-wheel earlier model. Like you, I've heard testimony that Duesenberg Model J's steer like a truck. One of our local members, very knowledgeable and experienced and involved in AACA nationally, bought a nice original in the mid-1960's for $25,000. His friends thought he was crazy to spend so much for a 30-some-year-old car. He told me it wasn't all that fun to drive, and was like an F-250 or F-350 truck. He sold it after several years for a good profit. Edited October 30, 2020 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history) Link to post Share on other sites
BobinVirginia 195 Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 23 minutes ago, JV Puleo said: I have thought about projects like that - when I was younger and had a lot more years ahead of me. I often drove past an abandoned drive-in theater in my town. Near the entrance was an abandoned shovel-nose Mack truck, tipped on its side - all that was left was the chassis but that was more or less complete. I could have had it for the asking...in fact, my cousin did ask about another wrecked truck on the property and they gave it to him. That's the sort of thing I have in mind but I doubt it would be free today even though the cost of bringing it back to any degree of usefulness is much greater now. Bob...since I know you are a machinist, give some thought to taking on one of these projects that will require a lot of clever machine work - something that is well beyond 99% of the old car enthusiasts and far too expensive to have someone else do. It's really the "ticket of entry" into the world of big, early cars for folks like us who are unlikely to ever have a six-figure disposable income. Exactly! If I had to pay someone the project wouldn’t be affordable. I enjoy making things and it would likely be something based on a car like the Underslung. Big and bold but for now I’m soaking in ideas from people like yourself and thinking about what would best suit me. Thanks for your ideas and comments! Link to post Share on other sites
BobinVirginia 195 Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 7 minutes ago, John_S_in_Penna said: I doubt it. Not according to an authoritative article in Automobile Quarterly, years ago. I hope it’s not been lost forever! Such an unusual car design from a time when it was truly trial and error. Link to post Share on other sites
AHa 531 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 The Octoauto was offered to me by a well known literature dealer that used to set up at Hershey every year. I bought several pieces of literature from him through the years but I haven't been to Hershey for quite a while. I never saw the car so I can't say definitively it exist. Through the years though, several cars that were not supposed to exist have showed up. I can think of two right now. Though the sister car of old 16 was said to have been destroyed, it is restored in a private collection, or so I've been told. The story of the Zust, which is being discussed in a separate thread, was supposed to be lost, yet is restored. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Tinindian 1,699 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 Here is a picture of a 1913 American Underslung that was in Victoria for a car show a couple of decades ago. The picture was taken in the Hotel's underground parking. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
edinmass 11,202 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, AHa said: The Octoauto still exists. Why not buy the car and restore it? I was also advised not to buy an American Underslung when one was offered to me. I was also advised not to buy a Duesenberg. Told they steer like a truck. The Duesenberg information is totally incorrect. They are easy to steer when properly set up......I have thousands of miles under my belt in a Duesenberg. Want to drive a truck......buy a V-16 Cadillac. And they really are not too bad. Edited October 30, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history) 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Jeff Perkins / Mn 576 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 8 hours ago, edinmass said: ....1.6 sounds high to me....but I don't follow them. Ed, I checked and the “Honeymoon Car” 1907 American Underslung sold for 1.43 million $ at Bonham’s auction 10/06/2014. Sorry for the misinformation! 1 Link to post Share on other sites
BobinVirginia 195 Posted October 30, 2020 Author Share Posted October 30, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, Jeff Perkins / Mn said: Ed, I checked and the “Honeymoon Car” 1907 American Underslung sold for 1.43 million $ at Bonham’s auction 10/06/2014. Sorry for the misinformation! Yep, that’s just a couple dollars over my budget! I’ve figured out that I have million dollar taste on a Model T budget! Edited October 30, 2020 by BobinVirginia (see edit history) Link to post Share on other sites
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