First Duesenberg sold to public

[SC38dls]

2020 National Historic Vehicle Register Inductees Announced!

 

i can’t seem to get the link to post but the video that goes along with this announcement is really good. Beautiful 1921 Duesenberg  and will now be memorialized for all time in the library of Congress. 

edit 

This seems to get to the utube site 

1921 Duesenberg and 1970 Dodge Challenger added to National Historic Vehicle Register | HVA

Edited October 28, 2020 by SC38DLS (see edit history)

[alsancle]

 

[edinmass]

The Duesenberg was recently donated to the ACD museum by the original owners family.........The Dole Pineapple Empire financial backers. The car spent its life in Hawaii. 

Edited October 28, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Walt G]

SO nice the car was restored to the original sedate colors and not like so many cars in the past 30 years , been restored with bright colors ( ie yellow fenders purple body) and over plated - wheels , door hinges, etc and no extra Trippe lamps mounted to the front.

[padgett]

So if donated it becomes historic ?

[John Bloom]

18 minutes ago, padgett said:

So if donated it becomes historic ?

First Duesenberg sold to public........that good looking........“Historic” works for me. 

[padgett]

NP with the Duesy, it was the Challenger I was wondering about.

[1937hd45]

2 hours ago, Walt G said:

SO nice the car was restored to the original sedate colors and not like so many cars in the past 30 years , been restored with bright colors ( ie yellow fenders purple body) and over plated - wheels , door hinges, etc and no extra Trippe lamps mounted to the front.

 

 

DO NOT post a color photo of that if you have one. Bob 

[greenie]

We took this picture 6 days ago at the ACD Museum. I wondered out loud what the roads in Hawaii were like in 1921? 

[TTR]

5 hours ago, edinmass said:

...the original owners family.........The Dole Pineapple descendants.  

Well, I promise not to hold that against them.

^^ Private joke, since I don't like pineapple. 😉

[C Carl]

I enjoy the occasional p'apple. But more to the point, I expect those early Hawaiian roads were about as rough as one. Probably close to as sloppy as a rotten one, too.   -   Carl 

[padgett]

"what the roads in Hawaii were like in 1921? " Prolly more what was the road in Hawaii like...

 

[TAKerry]

According to the net Samuel Northrup Castle died in 1894, so it is unlikely he was the first owner. Perhaps one of his children. He was a missionary turned businessman. I didnt see any link of him to Dole pinapple though. 

[edinmass]

14 minutes ago, TAKerry said:

According to the net Samuel Northrup Castle died in 1894, so it is unlikely he was the first owner. Perhaps one of his children. He was a missionary turned businessman. I didnt see any link of him to Dole pinapple though. 

On his obituary it says........He was the financial backer of the Dole Pineapple empire.

[TAKerry]

Would make sense, I saw that he was making money from sugar plantations, one of five major businesses in the Kingdom at the time.

[SC38dls]

I believe Dole owns a whole island in the Hawaiian island chain. It has the factory and maybe a few houses but mostly pineapple groves. 
Donating this car probably is a good tax write off that won’t hurt their bottom line. Great for people to be able to see the car. I just hope it doesn’t just sit there for years without running. 

[edinmass]

The car has been getting out since day one. It is a fresh total restoration.......so it should last 200 years. ACD Museum has a full service shop and takes great care of their cars......unlike 99 percent of the museums.

Edited October 29, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[1935Packard]

The New York Times had an interesting article and accompanying video about the restoration of this car back in 2013: 

]https://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/11/automobiles/its-a-duesie-the-first-in-fact.html

[TAKerry]

10 hours ago, BobinVirginia said:

That Dusenberg is rolling artwork! Super cool!!

I like those cars for what they are, but this one is by far one of the most beautiful I have seen. Good runner up to the Pierce Arrow.

[Graham Man]

I was looking for pictures of the Duesenberg before restoration it must have been pretty rough...

 

Good link for most of the story

https://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?9186321-Bruce-Canepa-and-the-restoration-of-the-first-Duesenberg

[alsancle]

I didn’t think it was in that bad a shape.   But give a Duesenberg to a Porsche shop and voila.. 10k hours later you are done.

[edinmass]

The car had a hard life..........and had “upgrades” if memory serves me. The shop that restored it did a great job.......it was NOT an easy restoration........in fact, It was heroic. To be fair......there was ten times more to the story than published.  Fantastic car, and a great shop working out of their comfort zone.

Edited October 29, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[padgett]

Something is tickling a synapse about a gear driven overhead cam from a European motor around 1911. Also any relation to the Miller S8 of the same period also used by Fred and Augie.

[1912Staver]

A couple of the old books by Griff Borgeson  provide some idea of the early years of  Duesenberg . And early OHC engines.  The twin cam engine book is pricy , but the Golden Age of American Racing is a lot more 

wallet friendly. 

 

Greg

[Guest Mark McAlpine]

1 hour ago, BobinVirginia said:

 I was planning a trip to Kokomo for the Elwood Haynes Museum next year and I’m gonna add the ACD Museum to my trip! 
 

 

Definitely hit the ACD Museum.  It's worth the trip in itself.  (My wife & I have attended all of the AACA Nationals (formerly "Meets") held in Auburn partially because of the ACD Museum.)  Give yourself plenty of time to take it all in.  The museum has outstanding display signage, but I recommend you still take a tour with one of the docents--they're very knowledgeable, very friendly, and will share a lot of information about the vehicles and history of the companies & personalities not included on the display placards.  When you visit the ACD Museum, also visit the National Auto & Truck Museum right behind it. 

 

If you have time, also visit the nearby Early Ford V-8 Museum, Kruse Automotive & Carriage Museum, and National Military History Center, all located on the opposite side of I-69 across from the RM Sotheby's Auction Park (formerly the Kruse auction park--there's an interesting back story there).  I only visited the Kruse Military History Center & Kruse Automotive & Carriage Museum once about six years ago.  I hope both collections are in better shape now than they were then--you could tell they were going through financial hardship at the time because a number of military vehicles had been sold (just the signs and drip pans were in place) and many of the vehicles in both museums had flat tires.  Both were nice collections that had seen better days.  Note that I don't know the status today of either Kruse museum or if they're even open. 

 

Bottom line:  I strongly encourage you to visit the ACD Museum.  If it fits your schedule, consider attending the 2021 AACA Central Spring Nationals in Auburn on 6-8 May 2021.  That way you can over indulgence in antique-car related fun:  the AACA show, the RM Sotheby's auction & flea market, and all the nearby museums.  (There's usually a great party with live entertainment at the auction park on Friday evening for AACA members and auction participants.  It's also a great time to check out the auction cars without a large crowd around.)

Edited October 29, 2020 by Mark McAlpine (see edit history)

[edinmass]

1 1/2 hours north of ACD is the Gilmore Museum Campus.....a MUST SEE like the ACD Museum also.

[Cadillac Fan]

Just now, edinmass said:

1 1/2 hours north of ACD is the Gilmore Museum Campus.....a MUST SEE like the ACD Museum also.

In my opinion, the best!  (And likely getting even better soon).  

[Graham Man]

This picture says a lot about the "as received" condition....

 

They recreated the headlight supports from the original pictures...

 

My guess it it was pretty bad, they may have been a "Porsche shop" but you need to attend a Porsche Concours d'Elegance to understand that level of competition.

 

The ash body frame of the Duesenberg Model A. “Everybody we talked to about restoring that frame said, ‘We’ll just scan it and make a new one,’ ” Bruce Canepa, the owner of the restoration shop, said. “We said, ‘No thanks.’ ” The body frame restoration took a year and a half.

 

 

 

 

[1912Staver]

The wood does not " look " that bad. Lower sills obviously are bad but still very intact. I imagine they probably saved at least 1/2 of what is in the photo, unless appearances

are deceiving. Always hard to tell about wood from a photo..

 

Greg

 

 

 

[Xander Wildeisen]

[edinmass]

The wood wasn’t the only issue. The car was extensively modified over the years because of the remote location.........ever try and find Duesenberg parts in the middle of the Pacific Ocean during the war? And, there were more tractor mechanics than super ultra luxury car mechanics on the plantation. We got to assist on several aspects of the car........the shop out west did a fantastic job.

[alsancle]

20 hours ago, edinmass said:

The car had a hard life..........and had “upgrades” if memory serves me. The shop that restored it did a great job.......it was NOT an easy restoration........in fact, It was heroic. To be fair......there was ten times more to the story than published.  Fantastic car, and a great shop working out of their comfort zone.

 

There is no doubt in my mind that the guys at that shop are the best.   I'm simply pointing out that many skills transfer,  but knowledge of the marque does not.   Hence,  you are going to pay to teach the Porsche guys Duesenberg Model A.  

[edinmass]

You are correct. Interestingly after the Model A they have been involved with a Pierce arrow also. Seems the craftsmen there like early stuff also..........

[wayne sheldon]

I have heard and personally seen so many horror stories about modern shops and craftsmen (?) and machinists working on antiques. I took an adult education course (three semesters!) in machine shop about fifty years ago so I could make some parts for one of my cars. The side benefit to me was that it gave me an insight to the mind of the modern machinist! That insight also carries over into people rebuilding modern high performance cars. As a group, they generally have an arrogant belief that people a hundred years ago didn't know anything about what they were doing. Therefore, the "modern machinist" MUST make it better, and do it the way "it should have been done originally". I, and I am sure that you also, have heard that out of their mouths many many times.

Of course those of us that know the history, know that the engineers and inventors of so much of what we take for granted today mostly did know what they were trying to do. Their designs reflect the technologies available to manufacturing at the time. Metallurgy as we know it today was in its infancy then. Lubricating oils and fuel quality was terrible by today's standards. And, there were some things that were not yet known, like the advantage of full cylinder water jackets. Also, the expectations of the car were different. Expected speeds were much lower, and expected distances much less. Also, the publics expectations were based on the familiarity with elaborate horse drawn carriages, and the construction techniques of the day. It took nearly half a century for a lot of those expectations to change.

 

I think I digress again.

 

Regardless, thank you both for good words about a "modern" shop that understood and did things right!

[padgett]

Some tools I use to think about what am trying to do: oscilloscope, lathe, and mill are good examples. It is too easy to design something that cannot be maintained without a chronosymplastic infidibulum and a set of mobius wrenches.

[Fossil]

47 minutes ago, padgett said:

chronosymplastic infidibulum and a set of mobius wrenches.

Uh yah, what he said. 

[gossp]

On 10/29/2020 at 3:39 PM, edinmass said:

1 1/2 hours north of ACD is the Gilmore Museum Campus.....a MUST SEE like the ACD Museum also.

Excellent recommendation, I am going to go there one week from tomorrow... and bring home my car that has been there for over a year! 

[wayne sheldon]

BobinVIrginia, Yes, like all things to do with human beings. There are good people and bad people everywhere. Over the years, I have met a good number of very good machinists. Some could fix or make almost anything, and do a beautiful job of it. Others, NOTHING on an antique engine is anywhere near good enough to try and use it. EVERYTHING had to be completely re-machined to modern tight tolerances, and surface finished to .001 inch. When done, it not only looks nothing like it originally did? They cannot get it to run for even a minute before the pistons seize up. I have seen model T engines that owners spent $10,000 to $20,000 getting it rebuilt (model Ts should be cheap to rebuild!), and never could make it run. 

And it is not just machinists. Body and paint people, as well as upholsterers, that do not understand antique automobiles, can charge huge amounts of money to do a job so wrong that there is little if any value at all left in the car. Just a couple years ago, there was a common "black era" model T touring car for sale. The seller had receipts for nearly $45,000 restoration cost! A nearly the best on the planet black era model T touring car would only be worth about $12,000. Everything was done wrong. The hideous colors (supposed to be black!), the upholstery that looked like it was stolen off a Lazy Boy. The top so wrong they couldn't put it up without looking horrible, and couldn't fold it down properly either. 

Having read your thread about your car, and your questions, as well as many comments you have made on a number of other threads, I would say you are well on your way to a long and fun time in a wonderful hobby!  You seem to have a good well grounded approach to the learning curve in this hobby, and asking many of the right questions. 

Good luck!