New owner, need part sources.

[Stev]

Howdy.

Just bought my first Airflow, 1935 Desoto SG, and it needs some stuff but i don't know where to get parts.

 

The most imperative is the transmission mount, which is somehow not resting on the crossmember and has partially ripped. (though is still ductile). I also would like a source for disposable wear items like the condensor, and ultimately the clutch, which is so worn it disengages within half an inch of the top of the pedal travel, and will probably need replacing soon.

 

 

I'm a little spoiled by my '48 ford truck, which has repros for pretty much everything. I don't expect much for the airflows, but I'd prefer if the transmission was supported by more than hopes and dreams.

 

Edited October 25, 2020 by Stev (see edit history)

[36 D2 Coupe]

I see you have bought a rare Canadian (Windsor) assembled De Soto SG. It uses 1934 Chrysler 3-bar bumpers. The back bumper is incorrect. Looks like maybe '37 DeSoto but I'm not positive. 

First order of business is to join the Airflow Club of America - www.airflowclub.com - a huge resource of friendly and very knowledgeable folks devoted to the restoration and preservation of these wonderful cars. They can guide you to sources of parts and have a very large technical library available on line to members only. 

Motor mounts can be re-vulcanized but I have forgotten who does this work. NOS is not available. I had a set done many years ago with good success. 

Many parts houses can supply the electrical components. Also I think some clutch parts. 

This will be a great car to own and drive.  Best of luck. And keep in touch. I'll help you if I can.

 

Jim Hazlewood

[RogerPHX]

Then and Now Automotive in Mass. can redo your engine mount.

I had the clutch for my '37 Airflow redone by a local shop in Phoenix.

I'll second joining the Airflow Club as a great resource,

Cheers,

Roger

Phoenix

[Old buicks 2]

For NOS ignition parts contact Tom VanMeeteren     tsvanmeet@gmail.com  or 402-359-5762

[Stev]

On 10/29/2020 at 7:02 PM, 36 D2 Coupe said:

I see you have bought a rare Canadian (Windsor) assembled De Soto SG. It uses 1934 Chrysler 3-bar bumpers. The back bumper is incorrect. Looks like maybe '37 DeSoto but I'm not positive. 

First order of business is to join the Airflow Club of America - www.airflowclub.com - a huge resource of friendly and very knowledgeable folks devoted to the restoration and preservation of these wonderful cars. They can guide you to sources of parts and have a very large technical library available on line to members only. 

Motor mounts can be re-vulcanized but I have forgotten who does this work. NOS is not available. I had a set done many years ago with good success. 

Many parts houses can supply the electrical components. Also I think some clutch parts. 

This will be a great car to own and drive.  Best of luck. And keep in touch. I'll help you if I can.

 

Jim Hazlewood

 

Yeah it's a canadian built one. I'm not sure how it's outwardly identifiable but it came with a bunch of club documentation and is allegedly one of three and the only in original/unrestored state. It also came with another three slat rear bumper which i need to straighten out and put back on. It's nice to know that that's original, as I much prefer it visually.

 

 

 

Here's the transmission mount. Difficult to see from this perspective but it's floating above the crossmember about 3/8ths, and the bolt is under tension. If i back it off the transmission rises up even higher. Really not sure what's going on there, unless the front mounts are torqued down to kingdom come and it's lifting the whole entire unit.

 

The transmission also has a large 8 gauge ish mystery cable coming off of it that was clipped with shears. Was overdrive electrically engaged? The dashboard doesn't have the knob but the trans could've been swapped in. It'd certainly be nice to have.

 

Thanks for the part references, time to start hoarding.

 

Edited October 31, 2020 by Stev (see edit history)

[PFindlay]

Stev, I'm glad to see my Airflow has found a good home.  In 2008 my dad brought it back to life after it had been sitting for 40 years.  Back in the 1960s he serviced it at his station.  There should be a Lorne's Automotive sticker on the driver's doorpost.

 

That rear bumper is off a 49 Plymouth.  I always wanted to put the original back on but never got to it.  There are some guys in the Airflow club who have a surprising number of parts available.  You should join the club, but you don't need to be a member to join the Airflow group on groups.io.  Excellent resources.

 

There should be an article about the car's history in your stuff.  If not I could send it to you.  It was published in the Airflow Club newsletter about 5 years ago.

 

Good luck with it.

 

Peter

[Stev]

6 minutes ago, PFindlay said:

Stev, I'm glad to see my Airflow has found a good home.  In 2008 my dad brought it back to life after it had been sitting for 40 years.  Back in the 1960s he serviced it at his station.  There should be a Lorne's Automotive sticker on the driver's doorpost.

 

That rear bumper is off a 49 Plymouth.  I always wanted to put the original back on but never got to it.  There are some guys in the Airflow club who have a surprising number of parts available.  You should join the club, but you don't need to be a member to join the Airflow group on groups.io.  Excellent resources.

 

There should be an article about the car's history in your stuff.  If not I could send it to you.  It was published in the Airflow Club newsletter about 5 years ago.

 

Good luck with it.

 

Peter

 

Oh hey, fancy that. Glad to have it.

 

Yes the car still has a mountain of literature with it, including the newsletter about the car's ressurrection. In it, it's claimed that the car was used in The Imaginarium of Dr. Parnassus, which is one of my favorite films. But alas i went to watch it and I guess they dropped that take because there's one scene it could be and it ain't there.

 

Gonna do my best with it, it's a lovely thing.

 

And yes, the sticker is still there.

Edited October 31, 2020 by Stev (see edit history)

[PFindlay]

Yes, they cut us out of the film.  It wasn't exactly my kind of movie but I skimmed through it and didn't see our scene.  Here are a few pictures from that day.  It was in front of the Marine Building on Burrard St. and also on Cordova near Gastown.  They also cut us out of Night the Museum Night at the Museum 3 (Robin Williams' last film) but the car does show up in some other shows if you look quickly.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Stev]

 

That's the scene I thought it was. Small world.

 

 

I intend to take it on a tour of vancouver's 30's buildings this summer but I'm not brave enough to do that until the clutch is replaced, it does not like hill starts at present.

 

Edited October 31, 2020 by Stev (see edit history)

[PFindlay]

I was driving that silver Packard (belongs to my brother) and that's me at the front of it.  They dressed me up as the doorman.  I missed that scene when I skimmed the movie.  Thanks.

[Stev]

19 hours ago, PFindlay said:

I was driving that silver Packard (belongs to my brother) and that's me at the front of it.  They dressed me up as the doorman.  I missed that scene when I skimmed the movie.  Thanks.

 

Rad. It's one of my favorite films so that's pleasing to know the history.

 

Also, there's three questions i have about the car you might be able to resolve.

 

 

 

These lines on the block i'm assuming went to an aftermarket oil filter that's no longer there. Also there's a broken off thing on the left fender that looks like it should've been an antenna, but there's no sign of the car ever having a radio, any idea what's going on there?

 

And finally there's a mystery cable coming out of the transmission that was cut with cable shears, that is smaller than the battery cables but is still rather thick. The car doesn't have an overdrive knob, so i'm wondering if this is perhaps an overdrive transmission that was swapped in. I don't know enough to tell them apart externally. It'd be very nice to have overdrive, as the motor's turning over uncomfortably fast at 50mph as it is, and to go anywhere around here I have to take the highway.

 

Thanks

[PFindlay]

Yes, it's an antenna.  Back in the sixties it had a (Philco?) radio mounted under the dash.  Presumably the son wanted music when he drove it to school.  A correct Airflow radio would be a box mounted under the dash on the firewall (I think) with a remote radio head that replaced the ashtray.  The antenna would be in the roof, I believe.

 

Those lines look like oil filter lines and that is where an oil filter would have been mounted to the block.  I don't think they were there when I had it.  Maybe he was in the process of adding a filter.

 

I don't know what the mystery cable is and I don't remember noticing it ever.  I'd be really surprised if it is an overdrive transmission, though.  I think my dad would have known that if it were true.  If you can get a good picture, post it on the airflowcars.groups.io site and they will tell you if it's an overdrive or not.  That would be a real bonus.

[Stev]

4 hours ago, PFindlay said:

Yes, it's an antenna.  Back in the sixties it had a (Philco?) radio mounted under the dash.  Presumably the son wanted music when he drove it to school.  A correct Airflow radio would be a box mounted under the dash on the firewall (I think) with a remote radio head that replaced the ashtray.  The antenna would be in the roof, I believe.

 

Those lines look like oil filter lines and that is where an oil filter would have been mounted to the block.  I don't think they were there when I had it.  Maybe he was in the process of adding a filter.

 

I don't know what the mystery cable is and I don't remember noticing it ever.  I'd be really surprised if it is an overdrive transmission, though.  I think my dad would have known that if it were true.  If you can get a good picture, post it on the airflowcars.groups.io site and they will tell you if it's an overdrive or not.  That would be a real bonus.

 

Excellent, thanks.

 

In the papers are some receipts for oil filters Some are after the ressurrection, some from the 60's, maybe it was the same one, maybe not. I suspect the owner before last wasn't very careful with the car generally, so perhaps he removed it. I'm not sure, ergo my question.

 

I'll investigate the transmission more. The cable is almost thick enough to be a ground, but grounding from the trans is bizzare, and the block is earthed. I can't imagine what else it might be apart from an overdrive cable.

 

Thanks for the help. If you're ever on the sunshine coast you're welcome to visit the car.

[Stev]

Bit of an update to the car for those interested.

I took a leisurely drive to get some burgers and hang out with some mustang people. Somehow I survived the mustangs, but regrettably on the way home it started surging, and upon further inspection, a rattling knock was coming out of #6.

 

 

 

Upon popping the head off, the reason became clear. #6 has terrible pitting.

 

I had dreaded that it was a rod/crank bearing, but happily there was no play detectable from the top end. But unhappily the scoring on the walls of #6 appear to indicate catastrophic ring failure. The fact that the knocking sound does not 'scale' with RPM makes me think the bearings are not the issue.

 

I don't believe I've had the car long enough to have caused this myself, and nor was there any sign of the head gasket leaking on any cylinders. My current working theory is that during the car's 40 year hibernation in open air, that intake valve was open and condensation found it's way in and ruined the wall. And I appear to be the chump left holding the bag of confetti.

 

Now I still don't know much about the chrysler flat 6, but from the research/phoning i've done, it would appear that oversize pistons and bearings simply do not exist for the anually unique 34-37 motors, and I can't nearly afford to have a custom set milled. Given the depth of the pitting I would be amazed to be able to recondition that bore without boring it substantially oversize and I'm rather at a loss for what to do.

 

I'm going to pull and strip the motor sometime soon to determine the full scope of the problems but I would appreciate some advice on how hosed I am and what to do about it. In a perfect world i could just throw a hone and set of rings at it and be on my way but I doubt it. If the block was a prohibitive writeoff my first thought was to track down a 6 from a 50-52 fullsize DeSoto for the large displacement and relatively close timeframe. The blocks look outwardly identical (outside of appliances/head), but I've heard that the motors differ so much that that can't be done without substantial modification. Dimensionally they seem to be identical but beyond that I have no idea.

 

I was hoping to restore the car piecemeal but catastrophic failure had other plans. Wish me luck, I suppose.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Stev (see edit history)

[36 D2 Coupe]

Hi Stev

Your engine takes 3.375" pistons that fit 241 & 228 cu. in. engines. I got a set of oversize pistons from Engine Parts Whse in Memphis in 2018 for my D2 Coupe - complete with wrist pins + a ring set for  under $175. They had an impressive inventory of pistons, rings and bearings including many oversizes.  Falcon Global supplied bearings for the engine at reasonable prices. Check them both out. It took me a while to find them but sure saved a lot of headaches. 

Also on eBay if you look for pistons for Chrysler 241 & 228 engines, I found sets .040 and .030 oversize for under $300 - so those parts are available if you shop. No need to have them custom made. 

[Stev]

4 hours ago, 36 D2 Coupe said:

Hi Stev

Your engine takes 3.375" pistons that fit 241 & 228 cu. in. engines. I got a set of oversize pistons from Engine Parts Whse in Memphis in 2018 for my D2 Coupe - complete with wrist pins + a ring set for  under $175. They had an impressive inventory of pistons, rings and bearings including many oversizes.  Falcon Global supplied bearings for the engine at reasonable prices. Check them both out. It took me a while to find them but sure saved a lot of headaches. 

Also on eBay if you look for pistons for Chrysler 241 & 228 engines, I found sets .040 and .030 oversize for under $300 - so those parts are available if you shop. No need to have them custom made. 

 

that's not the impression i got from initial research, that's a huge relief. I always forget Ebay is a thing, I never really trusted it.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Stev (see edit history)

[keithb7]

On the Desoto engine,  could a person bore the 3 ⅜ bore .060 over, to net 3 7/16” standard bore? Then have pistons and rings readily available. As the 3 7/16 bore is on 95% of all the old mopar flathead engines. 
 

This is exactly what I did to my Canadian 228 ci 3 3/8 bore Plymouth engine. 

[Alfa]

Sorry to hear of your engine trouble. I hope you are well on the way to getting it sorted out. If oversize pistons are not available, could you not have that one cylinder bore sleeved back to standard?

 

Also, to answer your earlier question; that is not an overdrive gearbox. The overdrive is a planetary unit in a finned housing on the back of the three speed box, with the handbrake mounted on the rear of that. The overdrive is operated by centrifugal action, there is no electrical supply. However, my 35 Airflow SE has a lockout facility to prevent the freewheeling from working on long descents. That takes the form of a large knob on the dashboard that is connected by a heavy steel cable to the transmission housing. I wonder if that cut-off cable you have seen is in fact the lock-out cable?

 

You appear to have the automatic choke on your carb. Mine has been reduced to a manual cable somewhere in the dim and distant past. The car was acquired by my father in 1969 and has therefore been in our family for more than half its life, but the choke was changed well before that.

 

Did you have difficulty removing the alloy cylinder head? Mine has never been off and I hope it does not need to anytime soon, but I was concerned that it might be difficult to remove. 

 

Adam..

[Stev]

On 8/22/2021 at 7:45 AM, keithb7 said:

On the Desoto engine,  could a person bore the 3 ⅜ bore .060 over, to net 3 7/16” standard bore? Then have pistons and rings readily available. As the 3 7/16 bore is on 95% of all the old mopar flathead engines. 
 

This is exactly what I did to my Canadian 228 ci 3 3/8 bore Plymouth engine. 

 

 

 

15 hours ago, Alfa said:

Sorry to hear of your engine trouble. I hope you are well on the way to getting it sorted out. If oversize pistons are not available, could you not have that one cylinder bore sleeved back to standard?

 

Also, to answer your earlier question; that is not an overdrive gearbox. The overdrive is a planetary unit in a finned housing on the back of the three speed box, with the handbrake mounted on the rear of that. The overdrive is operated by centrifugal action, there is no electrical supply. However, my 35 Airflow SE has a lockout facility to prevent the freewheeling from working on long descents. That takes the form of a large knob on the dashboard that is connected by a heavy steel cable to the transmission housing. I wonder if that cut-off cable you have seen is in fact the lock-out cable?

 

You appear to have the automatic choke on your carb. Mine has been reduced to a manual cable somewhere in the dim and distant past. The car was acquired by my father in 1969 and has therefore been in our family for more than half its life, but the choke was changed well before that.

 

Did you have difficulty removing the alloy cylinder head? Mine has never been off and I hope it does not need to anytime soon, but I was concerned that it might be difficult to remove. 

 

Adam..

 

Wow, been a while since I checked this thread.

 

Talked to the local machine shop, and it seems best to bore out #6 and sleeve it, and install a new set of rings. That way I can keep my original set of pistons and keep the cost down. When I got the car I knew it needed a new rear main seal (as the clutch is thoroughly oiled down) so really it's only adding an alleged 150 bucks to the tab for the job, so not too bad. I also knew it needed the engine mount rubber re-cast as well. I was suprised to find out that the fan is actually 2 pieces bonded together with rubber, as it's sort of part of the dampener. So that'll need doing as well. No idea who to take that to, though.

 

  

 

 

 

 

The motor was a real SOB to pull but I got it out. I had the motor for my 48 ford out, replace the slave cylinder and back in in about 4 hours. The Soto's was about 12 just to get it out and it's sitting on a pallet for now. Hopefully i can truck it off to the machine shop this month. Apart from #6's bore it looks great inside, i couldn't feel any ridging on the cam, oil sump was clean, no play in the rod bearings at all. Weird to think it's nudging 90 years old now. By the smell of it, the gear oil in the transmission is too.

 

As for popping the head off, it was easy. Just impacted the head bolts off and tapped it with a rubber mallet until it let go, head gasket looks great. Should be able to just quench it and slap it right back on.

 

She'll be back on the road this spring, then i can turn my attention to reshaping my grandfather's polara into a real firebreather. Money is finite, glory is eternal.

Edited November 10, 2021 by Stev (see edit history)

[Alfa]

I wondered how you got it out on that crane. With difficulty it seems. 😀

[Stev]

On 11/11/2021 at 5:35 AM, Alfa said:

I wondered how you got it out on that crane. With difficulty it seems. 😀

 

Yeah the oil sump is trapped between the axle and the front crossmember with maybe 1/3" of play. The parking brake was parked right up against the floor, and not the removable part. So it needed to tilt down and move back to come out, but the sump said no. I still also have no idea how to take the hood off, it's a 3 person exercise in cat herding at least.

 

I'm told putting the trans back in from below is even worse so getting the whole debacle back in as one piece is going to be a chore.

[Alfa]

I remember having my engine and gearbox out once. I had a larger crane than yours and we ended up tilting the engine almost vertically to get it past the axle. The gearbox is not too bad to put back in so long as you have everything lined up correctly.  You definitely need to remove the hood !! 🙂