1929 Cadillac Value

[rwchatham]

For the pre war guys what do you think the value of this 1929 Cadillac is , supposedly a test mule for fisher body back in 1929 with that windshield ?

 

[K8096]

I believe that car was for sale in the middle of the White Field (airport runway) at Hershey around 2002 or 2003.  I think they wanted around 70K for it at that time.  If it's not the same car, then the one that was there was painted a similar color.    What it is, is basically the cowl and windshield of a towncar, and the rear section of a convertible sedan body with a big long door in the middle.  I don't think it was a test mule for anything.   I don't think it's gone up in value any since the asking price 20 years ago.        

[Joe in Canada]

Is the body not Fleetwood? 

[Graham Man]

The black and white photos are the same car, down to the mismatched side mount narrow white wall tires, so the black and white pictures are not 1929 vintage.

 

 

 

 

 

These pictures are more convincing....

Fleetwood (USA) Style 3885 custom 4-passenger Victoria convertible coupe (only 1 assumed built, body N° 11616), photos in SS, 3/86: RH front side, RH rear side, body tag, rear, top down, int. top, headlight emblem, Pennsylvania "V" w/shield, trunk and rear wheel.  

The car has survived, as shown in this photo (right), courtesy Terry Griffin, Australia

https://www.newcadillacdatabase.org/static/CDB/Dbas_txt/DRM28-29.HTM

You have to scroll down a ways to see the pictures....

 

 

[John_S_in_Penna]

In my opinion, it lacks the grace of other

open-bodied Cadillacs.  If it has a true

historical interest to Cadillac fans, that's fine,

but it's good it wasn't put into greater production.

 

If its history can be adequately documented,

some Cadillac fan may pay more just for its uniqueness.

I would not.

 

[alsancle]

It is something different and if it is real - that period picture looks likes like it might be - then I would rather have it then all the garden variety stuff.

 

As for value,  unless there is a Caddy guy or two that wants to fight over it,  I'm not thinking a lot of money,  especially as a what looks like a very old restoration.

 

Somewhere between 50k and 80k depending on what the Caddy guys think?

 

Edited October 2, 2020 by alsancle (see edit history)

[edinmass]

2 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

In my opinion, it lacks the grace of other

open-bodied Cadillacs.  If it has a true

historical interest to Cadillac fans, that's fine,

but it's good it wasn't put into greater production.

 

If its history can be adequately documented,

some Cadillac fan may pay more just for its uniqueness.

I would not.

 

 

 

A PERFECT evaluation.........it's real, and interesting. I think the lines hurt the value rather significantly. It's a great piece of history. I bet under the paint the wheels are still chrome. Too bad about the color choice and metallic. It's been a well known car in Cadillac circles for fifty years. I have never seen it in person, which I would like to do to study it's engineering and other unique hardware. The mirrors stuck on the cowl, and the poor overpaint indicate a half hearted attempt at improvements probably back in the 60's. Too bad they didn't leave it alone. I believe I spoke to the gentleman who posted the cars photos a while back, and gave an opinion to value then. My opinion today is lower than it was due to market conditions and available similar cars from the era. I would value it less than a regular 1929 Cadillac roadster or convertible coupe. The awkward lines do not overcome the unique part of history that the car is. I'm sure someone would like it as a driver or tour car......but I don't think it has a future on the show circuit. 

Edited October 2, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Maybe not beautiful, but significantly more attractive top down.  Interesting how some cars look better one way or the other, and some are stunning top up or down. 

[rwchatham]

Ed yes you were a big help on the value when we spoke . Yes it’s the real deal car , 

has some really cool custom features .  Interested in it because it’s different  but my price and the sellers price do not seem to be close so just wanted to see what people thought . Thanks again for the help

[60FlatTop]

I think Gordon Buehrig would have liked that car a lot.

 

[trimacar]

My first though was a garage build, interesting that it’s the real deal.

 

Even being real, though, it’s very unfortunate looking in my opinion.

[Matt Harwood]

Poor homely thing. The uniqueness doesn't make it prettier and without any real history behind it, it's just an oddity (with the emphasis on odd).

[Graham Man]

The car is one of those cars, the devil is in the details...

 

The dark colors, make the chrome "pop" look at all the details that have been painted over, door hinges, tool box trim, wheels, guessing more on close inspection.  Looks like the original car had a gold thick pinstripe, I don't think the colorized picture is correct, I think the tool box covers were hood color, not black.  I think properly restored it could be a stunning car again.  Looks like you could get a few bodies in the trunk, if you could reach that far?  Must be a bigger car than it looks 140" wheelbase?  The mirrors are so ugly I would take them off now, the holes would look better.  Still don't understand the 1" band at the front of the hood?

 

From what I read the car is in Australia?  Is it back in the states?

 

 

From the original picture it almost looks like the front fenders are the same as the body color, and the rear fenders match the hood.  The band on the hood matches the front fender better then the hood color.  Would be an interesting car to inspect closely.  The top would look better if the top line of the window opening curved to match the car.  The door must be almost 4 feet long?

 

 

With people in the picture you can see how big the car is, must have been some sort of cover for the trunk when the top is down?  You can see the snaps on the black and white picture.

Edited October 2, 2020 by Graham Man (see edit history)

[Walt G]

Many good observations and comments about the car. Proper period color combination and choice for the paint, and top would make a world of difference. It would never make the car "oh wow" pretty , but would lessen the severity of the design. As mentioned the car with the top down looks much better - so the contrast between the color values of the massive top material and the colors on the body/fenders would have to be much more complimentary and in harmony to pull off a good appearance. Choice of black or white wall would also factor into the overall appearance.

[rwchatham]

Was it common for the factory to make the trunk to custom fit the body like this one does ? It is not just a generic trunk , it was shaped to fit the contour of the body . 

[John_Mereness]

Lovely Cadillac.  

 

May I suggest getting a copy of the "Build Sheet" from the General Motors Archives (tends to shut up the naysayers very quickly).   

 

Lazy and selling this car are a dangerous combination - unless you like to get less than its worth and then have at it. 

 

GM Media Archive Vehicle Invoice/Build Record Collection

Managed by Allied Vaughn

11923 Brookgield

Livonia, Michigan 48150

vehicleinvoice@gmmediarchive.com

724-261-5086

724-261-5216 fax

 

I sell stuff like this day in and day out via significantcars.com, in this particular case I would have the GM invoice firmly in my hand and then I would tell you that you should not be handling this on your own as it is the pure definition of stupidity.  If not working with a competent dealer of 30's CCCA cars, then give David Gooding www.goodingco.com a call and auction this off. 

 

Sorry to be blunt - but a lot of people "do not get it" and unfortunately for them.

 

 

Edited October 2, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

By the way, unique car and Cadillac was really not into Convertible Victoria body styles (most of this period are European bodied) - so they tend to be more unusual and coveted than not, plus they allow tall people to drive them comfortably.  

 

As to the comment on the mirrors - yes, empty holes would be better.  

 

As to the wheels - this car is an excellent example of a car that needs the wheels properly 100 point restored - would definitely help the cause.  Firestone Blackwalls and all too. 

[Matt Harwood]

Yes, it's likely a 140-inch wheelbase. That was the standard wheelbase for all Cadillacs in 1929 except the commercial chassis. The tool box covers in the splash aprons are actually covered in running board rubber, so black is correct, not body color or fender color. The trunk is probably similar to the one used with this DCP or, as Jason mentions, the convertible sedan from which the rear half was borrowed.

 

   

Edited October 2, 2020 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[John_S_in_Penna]

2 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

I think Gordon Buehrig would have liked that car a lot.

 

 

To me, it has the appearance of a "neo-classic,"

those 1970's-era re-creations and mal-creations

that tried to imitate the beautiful originals.

I know it's not, but it doesn't have the flowing lines,

the right proportions, of something that usually came out

of the inspired styling studios of the late 1920's and

early 1930's.

 

I feel that, just because something is from a respected

marque, or from the good old days, doesn't make it good.

Edited October 2, 2020 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

Folks, it may have its  high points and low points in styling, but in the big scheme or small scheme of things it is as good as it gets for an 8 cylinder Cadillac (and that is equally its problem as it is an 8 cylinder car and not a V-16). The survival rate of custom bodies anything of this period is incredibly low too (this one tends to be dramatic and that is just fine - it can find its way onto any Concours field on the Globe with no issue).   And it is well photographed new.   Also, I am guessing a whole different car when you are standing next to it - Matt is correct that it is 140 Wheelbase and a massive car.  

 

Also, given its colors, proportions, and ... it unfortunately looks like it is sitting on marshmallows which do nothing for it in attractiveness - I would have one weekend of fun with it driving it around the neighborhood while at the same time I was ordering Firestone blackwalls, tubes, and flaps - then Monday, I would be pulling wheels and removing tires to have a Tuesday appointment with Dayton Wire Wheel to drop off wheels to be restored (to whatever color the build sheet had them new). 

Edited October 2, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[1937hd45]

Are the tail lights on the car the same as new? I thought the diver bell style came out in 1930, and would like to find a pair. Bob 

[John_Mereness]

15 minutes ago, 1937hd45 said:

Are the tail lights on the car the same as new? I thought the diver bell style came out in 1930, and would like to find a pair. Bob 

The basic tail lamp / light design came out in 1928 and was used through 1931 - there are differences in the model years though. 

[60FlatTop]

Gordon's "Go to interview" car.

[John_Mereness]

7 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said:

Gordon's "Go to interview" car.

By the way:  If anyone has started making one of these Fords, has not finished their project, and wants to move on - I am in the purchasing mood. 

[rwchatham]

John thanks for the tips but not trying to sell the car just trying to get a better feel  for its value . Already have the build sheet for it so not concerned with it being the real deal because it definitely is . I sent you an email , thanks again 

Edited October 2, 2020 by rwchatham (see edit history)

[edinmass]

The car is right as rain...........no doubt about it. I have probably owned more early 30's Cadillac V-8's than anyone else that is still breathing. I have been familiar with the handful of Cadillac convertible victorias that were built between 1928 and 1932. I know where the 1932 V-12 is currently. Interesting cars for a working platform working out trim details, body moldings, ect, ect, ect...........don't want to dump on it unnecessarily but if they were truly a great cars, the cars would have worked their way into the legandary collectors garage by now. None of them has been owned by a major collector........and that speaks volumes. They are great cars for working class collectors like us who like the unusual and obscure.........which is what I myself like to collect. I never chased any of these because I consider the cars clunky, under powered, and not particularly attractive(yup, my taste has changed.) Cadillacs offer all the difficult things you can ask for...........vacuum tank, crappy carburetor, heavy, hard to work on, expensive, lots of pot metal, factory or Fleetwood only coachwork, heavy steering, poor brakes.........Don't get me wrong.....Cadillac's were the only pre war car I owned for ten years. I then expanded my horizons........trust me fellas, I had the best running and driving 1931 V-8 Cadillac in the world, and I sold it, and I don't want it back..............and have never bought another at any "deal" price. I became a Pierce Arrow guy the first day I drove a good Pierce. I do like and enjoy V-16's. But they are a much different animal than an 8. Hang around the hobby long enough, and you find a comfort zone. Cadillacs are good cars, but they never stop needing attention.