A preview of our Buick vs. Packard video

[Matt Harwood]

Filmed some footage this morning with my shop manager, Michael Johnson, at the wheel of the 1942 Packard 160 limousine and me in our '41 Limited. This is footage from inside the Packard. Roll-on start in high gear at about 10 MPH, full throttle to where Melanie is waiting at the finish line 1/4 mile away(you will just barely see her dressed in black on the right side of the road as we flash past).

 

Watch Michael's eyes in the rear-view mirror.

 

Wait for the end, it's worth it...

 

 

Edited September 27, 2020 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Can I come visit and run each car against the clock? I think I can squeeze a bit more out of each car.........the drivers in the video seemed to have an irrational fear of pounding on the engine to squeeze the last quarter horsepower out of it.........one may infer they were concerned with breaking something..........an irrational thought when running a car.

🤔

 

I’m sure there are a few other cars in the showroom that would be fun to apply our shop motto to..........”Drive it like you stole it!”

 

I have availability to exercise cars for you if your overwhelmed with work, just let me know. 👍

 

 

Edited September 27, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

8 hours ago, edinmass said:

Can I come visit and run each car against the clock? I think I can squeeze a bit more out of each car.........the drivers in the video seemed to have an irrational fear of pounding on the engine to squeeze the last quarter horsepower out of it.........one may infer they were concerned with breaking something..........an irrational thought when running a car.

🤔

 

I’m sure there are a few other cars in the showroom that would be fun to apply our shop motto to..........”Drive it like you stole it!”

 

I have availability to exercise cars for you if your overwhelmed with work, just let me know. 👍

 

 

 

 I second Ed's last sentence.

 

 Neat video. Was there any doubt as to the outcome?

 

  Ben

[Matt Harwood]

We did run both cars at full throttle from roughly 10 MPH, no holding back or soft-pedaling. I wanted to avoid shifting simply to reduce stress on the clutches or gearboxes in the heat of battle--these old guys are a lot less tolerant of a flubbed shift at full throttle than a modern transmission. And after all, the Packard is for sale; I didn't really want to hurt it. As with any race, there was certainly more in each car than we got out of them (if you listen, you'll hear Michael slipping the clutch a bit in this race, which is why the Packard took off so much faster).

 

Overall, however, I'm satisfied and the races were consistent enough that I have confidence in the result: with sufficient road, the Buick is notably faster. We did four runs to get a variety of different camera angles, and the process was the same each: get next to each other with cars in high gear at idle and when we cross a specific driveway next to the road, punch it. The Buick ultimately won every race, sometimes by a lot, but on the first run it was only by half a car length. This video shows the most common occurrence, though--a decisive come-from-behind win for the Buick. In the final pass, the Buick absolutely DESTROYED the Packard start to finish, but I suspect that the Packard was getting hot at that point. Buick maintained 180-185 degrees all day, including sitting and idling while we reviewed and reset the cameras, Packard was showing more than 3/4 on the gauge by the final race--not dangerously hot, but warmer than it liked. 

 

The result is pretty much what I expected: the Packard is faster off the line, but once there's real speed involved, the Buick's superior breathing takes over. The Packard really works best at delivering low-end torque, making shifting completely optional around town unless you're at a dead stop. I figured it would run out of breath eventually and that's exactly what happened. You can see the Packard's velocity plateau at about 50 MPH and it really works hard to drag itself past that point. That's when the Buick is hitting its stride and the dual carbs and overhead valves are taking over. You can see the Packard's speedo indicating that it was hitting 70 MPH by the end of the 1/4 mile, and that speedometer is pretty accurate. The Buick is well into the 70s by then.

But yes, I did mention to Melanie and Michael before we started that I wasn't 100% confident that the Buick would win. I was pretty sure, but one's posterior is a poor judge of actual speed. At the same time, I did not want any cheating or holding back or faking it to make the Buick come out on top. I wanted legit results. If the Buick lost, well, it would be disappointing, but it would be the truth.

 

Other factors: Buick is 400 pounds heavier than the Packard. Buick has 4.20 gears compared to Packard's 4.10s, but that's close enough to be a non-factor. Buick tires are 750-16 while Packard wears 700-16, so they're taller making it a wash on mechanical advantage. Packard has 39 more cubic inches to work with, which isn't insignificant, but after overcoming all that curb weight is no longer a factor, breathing is what matters and the Buick gains speed much more rapidly than does the Packard. 

 

I should probably also acknowledge that it might have been even closer had my Buick been stock with stock progressive carbs, stock manifolds, and stock 2-inch exhaust system. On the other hand, I handily beat a Packard 160 convertible coupe several years ago before I did any of the modifications, but that race started at a higher speed (like 40 MPH), so the Packard's low-end torque was taken out of the equation--that guy was pretty pissed when the Buick walked away from him.

 

Melanie reports that the cars sounded epic roaring across the finish line, and she got footage of that, don't worry. You can hear that the Packard has that familiar '40s trucky grumble that all such cars seem to have. I've never heard the Buick's exhaust note at speed, so I don't know how it sounds. Maybe I will now. 

 

This part was a lot of fun, but also stressful. I was really worried about losing and Michael said afterwards he didn't want to lose, either. So we were really racing. 

 

Stay tuned for the rest of the video, which hopefully we'll have in a few weeks. Enjoy!

 

Edited September 27, 2020 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[DonMicheletti]

About 35years ago, when I restored our '38 Buick Roadmaster, I visited a friend whe was a real Packard fan. He had several from 1902 to about 1936 or so. His latest was a Twin Six (v12). I had driven that Packard many times and it was a great car.

He asked me if the Buick performed as well as his Twin Six. I told him the Buick was a better performer. He didnt believe me. I handed him the keys and said "find out for youself". He drove off with the Buick.

He came back abour 20 minurtes later and handed me the keys and said "That SOB is a race car".

 

I do admit that the Packard did feel more solid and may have weighed more - but it did have cubic inches over the Buick.

[NTX5467]

In reality, the "top gear" acceleration test was probably the best way to do things.  Not unlike how many cars were driven back then, when possible.  You answered my initial questions about gearing and tire size, which was good.

 

It might have been "work", but I also suspect it was quite fun, too!

 

Thanks,

NTX5467

[Centurion]

Your video preview is my favorite automotive video of the year, Matt.  There is something remarkable about seeing that majestic Buick zooming past the right-hand side of the Packard.  I can't wait to see the full presentation!

[edinmass]

The rolling start is smart.....takes 95 percent of the load off the car, and prevents any unnecessary pounding on the cars. When we drag race some of the big boy toys, we always do it from a 2mph rolling start........I mean......that’s what people tell me.🤔
 

Of course, Chinese Downhill rules apply........it is agreed............😝

Edited September 28, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[FLYER15015]

I like Packards.

They're such cute little things.

 

Ya can't find parts for.....................

[EmTee]

On 9/27/2020 at 11:29 AM, Matt Harwood said:

You can see the Packard's velocity plateau at about 50 MPH and it really works hard to drag itself past that point.

 

I noticed that, and my first thought was that Michael let-off the gas thinking he had the race won!  I'm waiting to hear that tailpipe audio! 

[Su8overdrive]

So put dual carbs on the Packard.  Let's not get carried away lauding the victor and pooh poohing the runner up in this unequal test.  Obviously, ohv the way of the future, but Cadillac still had side valves.  Try it again with two carburetors on the Packar, or better, the Buick in single carb form a la 1940 or 1946.  

 

Perspective is served by the October 1st, 1940 inaugural run of the nation's first limited-access divided highway, the 160-mile Pennsylvania Turnpike from Carlisle (near Harrisburg) to Irwin (Pittsburgh). Half the motorcade was of new Packards, the rest Buicks and Cadillacs.  Boys being boys, after an hour, the sector between Bedford, the halfway point, and Somerset was lined with GMobiles, including the governor's Cadillac, hoods open, overheating, rod failure or worse.  Every Packard glided the entire route to Irwin at top speed, some dispatched to rescue the governor and other dignitaries.  Soon after, the turnpike adopted a 70-mph speed limit.

    Packard's refinement included a flatter ride than Cadillac, certainly Buick's coils at each corner, abetted by a lateral fifth rear shock to control side sway.  There were no better distance road cars on either side of the Atlantic or Channel.  

 

   I happen to like prewar Buicks, esp. the '40 Roadmaster w/ its racy new C body, some elements the '41 1/2 Packard Clipper cribbed.  But junior 248-ci Buick eight was less trouble than Flint's 320, according to mechanics in the day, the latter having a three piece exhaust manifold to Packard's single,  as well as torque tube drive, cheaper coil springs at the rear, as did stablemate Oldsmobile beginning 1938.

 

   Internal tests of the Buick 320 at 3,000 rpm for three straight hours left Flint's senior engine with various problems, which explains GM's might resulting in the above speed limit.