ThomasBorchers Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 Hi, I have a question regarding starting a very old engine with „untimed inlet valves“. We own a 1901 LeAster rear entrance tonneau, fully restored, really nice car. But to turn the engine over is really hard. The last time I had 14 days problems with my back. The problem is that the inlet valves are not open by the camshaft like the outlet valves. They open by sucking when the pistons go down. ( sniffer valve?? I don’t know the correct translation ). So, has someone a tip / hint how I can start this engine easier as now? Kind regards Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFranklin Posted September 25, 2020 Share Posted September 25, 2020 Back when your car was new people hired a chauffeur, young and strong with a knowledge of the motor car. Maybe you can find a strong friend that would like to be yours. If the engine has been newly rebuilt it should get easier to crank after it gets some use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 That type of inlet valve is called an " atmospheric inlet valve ". Very early , low R.P.M. engines only. Greg 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Harper Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 (edited) Hello Thomas, Automatic inlet valves or atmospheric valves were very common particularly on hit-or-miss engines and even early aircraft engines like the rotary Gnome and LeRhone engines used in WW1. If accessible you can hold the inlet valve open with your hand to relieve compression until its on top dead center than spin it through. If your using batteries often when your are just past top dead center you hit the switch and off it will go if all is well. Early fisherman who used the old 2 stroke make and break marine engines took great pride in that skill. Also how to time it just right flip the engine into reverse on the switch! I hope this helps! Hopefully you will find the settings and method that brings it to life AND saves your back and you can enjoy this interesting piece of machinery! Edited September 27, 2020 by Terry Harper (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 How about sharing a picture of two of the car and of the engine? Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasBorchers Posted September 27, 2020 Author Share Posted September 27, 2020 @ Greg: Ah, thank you for the translation. It is always hard to find out such things. @ JFranklin: Good idea with a strong, healty friend who starts the engine for me. But I am afraid, that the one can not make all the tours with me then. 🙂 The engine was perhaps rebuilt but I don't know when. @ Terry: No, it is not possible to hold the inlet valves open. Well, you mean that it could be possible to start on compression? I know this from my 1912 Cadilac and the Ford Model Ts. @ : Al: Of course... but I have just one bad photo. I can't find the better ones at the moment. I have to take one more of the engine. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 Great car. Probably best to install a electric starter. There are many options that can be will hidden, and use a small gel cell battery. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasBorchers Posted September 27, 2020 Author Share Posted September 27, 2020 (edited) An electric starter would be a really good solution. I know for example a Mercedes Simplex here which has an electric starter. I would like to do this but don't know how. Normally I would put a cogwheel on the flywheel but there is so less space between flywheel and frame, that it is not possible. I thought about to use something like the old race cars without starter. Tom Edited September 27, 2020 by ThomasBorchers (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 (edited) You can use a flat belt around the flywheel, it’s the most popular way to do it now. No engine modifications necessary. Post a photo of the flywheel please. Edited September 27, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasBorchers Posted September 27, 2020 Author Share Posted September 27, 2020 (edited) Flat belt, sounds interesting. And this has enough friction then to turn the engine over? I have never seen this before as an engine starting system. I know them from my grandfathers old machines like a belt driven saw. Tom Edited September 27, 2020 by ThomasBorchers (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 (edited) Yes, a flat belt will work. There is a starter generator combination from a(Desiel) tractor that will start the car and then charge the battery......all 12 volt, and works great. They use a serpentine belt off a modern truck. I would recommend you join the HCCA and post on their forum. We have done two of these a few years ago. With luck, you can make brackets that fit current holes in the chassis, and make it all work without drilling anything. To be honest, you don’t need to get the charging portion working......you can just put a battery tender on the battery and plug it in once a month. I’m sure there are a few technical articles showing how it’s done. I recently caw one done with a remote wireless starter key fob.......NO WIRES! Totally hidden. It’s some work, but cost is minimal, and adds a huge value towards resale. PS- because you car is a low compression and low speed engine, the small tractor unit works fine. The trick is to get the right size battery....enough amps to crank it easily, without bing too large to hide. You need to make a pulley, and sometimes a belt tensioner....but it’s all basically simple. You can make it so you only need one wire to start the car......so you can hide the switch. Edited September 27, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasBorchers Posted September 27, 2020 Author Share Posted September 27, 2020 Ah, I see, thank you for the hints. A 12V battery is already installed because we need this for the ignition. It has no magneto ignition, just battery ignitions coils. Like the Ford Model T. So then I have to switch to the HCCA website and Forum there. Are there also some photos of such systems? Tom 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alsfarms Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 Hello Thomas, PM sent...... Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 I don’t have any photos......I have seen them installed on a dozen cars over the years. I’m sure someone in the HCCA can help provide photos. It’s really not a difficult install on most cars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olympic33 Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Our '03 Franklin has atmospheric intake valves. Although it's not hard to crank like you mentioned, getting it to perform is an art with the right spring tension and valves. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R Holden Posted May 3, 2021 Share Posted May 3, 2021 Hi Thomas I can't see any de-compression cocks on your motor, however you could use the priming cups as a de-compressor. By turning the motor over on the intake stroke and then just after bottom dead center open the priming cup up and rotate the crank until the piston is 1/2 way up the compression stroke and then close the priming cup. This will give you mixture and less compression so it can be throw over easier and if it fires, it would have full compression on the next stroke. I have several early vehicles some with Atmospheric inlets but nearly all fitted with de-compression cocks which allow a certain amount of the compression to be released as the piston moves upward in the cycle until the rings pass the cock and then compression starts, but at a much reduced rate. Some vehicles have a lever that slightly lifts the exhaust value to release the compression, CDO have this and that makes them easier to start. I hope this assists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThomasBorchers Posted May 5, 2021 Author Share Posted May 5, 2021 Hi Russel, thanks for your answer. No, it has no de-compression cocks, just the priming cups you mentioned. Well, I have to try it as you have said. I am still thinking about an electric starter because I am a bit afraid for my back. I have seen that you are located in Australia an in the brass car scene. Do you know one with a 1913 Hudson 6-54 with a roadster body? I had here a visit from a man from Australia which had checked out our Hudson to build such a roadster body but I had never a contact with him. It is 10 years ago or so. Kind regards Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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