1920 Brewster Town Landaulet

[padgett]

Ice cold beer is easy, the difficulty is in obtaining more than two ice cubes at a time.

ps Lucas heaters.

[Rusty_OToole]

Brewster was an old line coachbuilder who supplied carriages to rich New Yorkers starting in 1810. When cars came in they began making car bodies of the highest quality.

 

One problem was that most high grade chassis were enormous with huge powerful engines and long wheelbase frames. Not very suitable for city use. They did make some town cars on imported chassis by Renault and others. Then, they made their own chassis with the long lived "silent Knight" engine. It was built more or less along the lines of a London taxicab, with short wheelbase, sharp turning radius, small high torque engine geared for stop and go traffic and not meant to go much over 35 MPH. But with a hand made body of unquestionable comfort and quality.

In later years they made small cars for city use on V8 Ford chassis.

 

Years ago I knew a local collector who used a 4 cylinder Willys Knight as a tour car. He told me it would burn a quart of oil in the first sixty miles, after that, nothing. The next day another quart in the first sixty miles, then nothing. It took that long for the engine to completely warm up.

 

Knight engines were known to be oil burners. I have seen old newsreels of English royalty in their sleeve valve Daimler limousine in the 1930s with a plume of blue smoke coming out of the tail pipe.

 

I don't know if anything can be done about this. There used to be special oils for 2 stroke motorcycles that burned without smoke. Don't know if anything like that is available for sleeve valve engines.

[Matt Harwood]

I was wondering where this thread went. WTF is it doing in the photo and video forum?

[HarryLime]

On something like this.........a wooden sailboat might be better .

[edinmass]

3 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

I was wondering where this thread went. WTF is it doing in the photo and video forum?

Moved by the moderators......and then moved again. Apparently some were confused thinking they you didn’t know what it was according to the subject line......so they moved it to the what is it area in photos. 

[oldcarfudd]

Maybe the moderators should use more moderation when they moderate.

[Matt Harwood]

13 minutes ago, oldcarfudd said:

Maybe the moderators should use more moderation when they moderate.

 

LOL. They do a great job given that we're like a bunch of cats on crack, myself included (maybe even me especially). 

 

Go hug a moderator. They'll appreciate it and they've earned it.

[edinmass]

“Everything in moderation......except moderation.”

[1937hd45]

I guess a Brewster section is next. 

[Matt Harwood]

First, I edited the topic name so it won't get lost in the "What is it?" forum again. This hopefully makes it easier for others to find in the future.

 

 

Two, we've been working away on the Brewster but it really didn't need much at all. I think it's a very handsome car and not at all spindly or delicate-looking like so many others of the period. We reinstalled the sidemounts, did some general clean-up (although we still have to give it a deep clean for photos), and tweaked the carburetor a bit, although it ran rather well right out of the box. It comes from a good home where it wasn't used often but it wasn't just parked for 20 years, either, so it's reasonably healthy. 12-volt electrical system means it starts almost instantly. Just pull out the MAG button and hit the starter button and it's running in 2 seconds with no other fussing--no choke, no pumping, no waiting for it to prime itself, none of that. It's rather remarkable. That sleeve valve engine runs surprisingly well, too. Smooth, torquey, and fairly quiet. I can get it to idle at like 200 RPM, which is pretty impressive, although it's happier around 400-450. A bit of smoke under load, but I don't consider it excessive unless you're running it indoors. I am getting conflicting readings on operating temperature--I have two moto-meters that came with the car, and both eventually peg themselves at full hot after about 5 minutes of driving, but the in-dash gauge shows that it's in the "WARM" range at 140-150 degrees. My hand-held infrared thermometer gun confirms that radiator inlet temperatures are only about 170 degrees. Why are the moto-meters so far off? Or is 170 degrees scary hot for an engine like this? I don't know.

 

 

 

I'm pleased with the way this thing goes down the road. It tracks like a cruise missile--watch the video below and you'll see I need zero course corrections on the wheel as I'm cruising along. I flubbed the 1-2 shift twice even though most of the time it shifts fine without the video camera running. Grrrrr. It's still a bit balky and needs some wrestling--the shifter has a lock button on top that needs to be depressed each time you move it, not just to get into a specific gear like reverse but every gear. That's kind of awkward and very hard to grab on the fly. Practice would probably make perfect, but it's by far the worst part of the car--terrible design. Ride quality is AMAZING, better than my 1929 Cadillac and as you'll see in the video below, it just ignores the train tracks by our shop that rattle most other cars to pieces. Brakes are decent but not amazing, but it's not particularly fast or heavy, so they're adequate. Cruises pretty happily at 35 MPH--there's more in it, I suppose, but I'm not interested in finding it. With these tires being ancient, I'm not going to push my luck with faster or lengthier drives. I've verified it runs and drives well, that's enough.

 

This Brewster isn't my thing, it's not a keeper for me, but it's an interesting car with a fascinating history and it's full of neat little details--check out the "B" that forms the controls on the center of the steering wheel, for instance. The craftsmanship is tangible in every single part and it really is beautifully preserved. After 100 years, the doors still swing true, the windows crank up and down effortlessly, and every moving part has a precise feel like none of the corners have been worn off yet. I guess with only 11,000 miles on it, that shouldn't be surprising. A neat artifact.

 

So here's a brief drive. Enjoy!

 

 

Edited October 7, 2020 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[motoringicons]

What a great car. I have been around a few Brewsters and the build quality is impeccable. 

[FLYER15015]

Doesn't need much ?

An ideal car for John Bloom.

Call him quick Matt

 

Mike in Colorado.

Edited October 7, 2020 by FLYER15015 (see edit history)

[rocketraider]

Thanks for the ride! I really enjoy the 2nd gear whine while accelerating, you know your machinery is working. And you're right, it tracks well. 

[CHuDWah]

I'm a couple weeks late to the party, but...

 

On 9/23/2020 at 5:41 PM, Matt Harwood said:

I have the sidemounts. They were removed for engine access to get it running after some hibernation. We'll have them reinstalled tomorrow, I hope.

 

Maybe a nitpicky question but there was a tool box on the passenger running board that looked original and/or attached - was it?  It looked like it would interfere with the side-mount and seems to have disappeared since the spare was installed?

 

On 9/23/2020 at 4:56 PM, Matt Harwood said:

Yeah, I'm undecided on the wolf whistle. I hate them--a lot--but it's been there for probably 70 years. Is that erasing history or just removing something that didn't belong there in the first place?

 

I vote for removal.  I have nothing against wolf whistles on the right car, but this isn't it.  It would've been socially unacceptable in 1920 for Richie Rich to tool around in his Brewster Town Landaulet with the chauffeur blowing the wolf whistle at all the girls.  🤣

 

Anyway, this car is older than what I usually like but I gotta agree it's very cool!  👍

[alsancle]

On 9/23/2020 at 6:06 PM, Walt G said:

The gray Brewster sedan was owned by Frank Wismer of Ct. he was the author of the book "An Inkling of Brewster" and had the help of Brewster family relatives for the history. Great Book. Frank was a good guy and also had a Packard sedan in the early 1930s. The gray Brewster sedan had an appearance in the TV series Boardwalk Empire about a decade ago. That series stared actor Steve Buscemi .

just about finished the book. Interesting quick read.  Thanks Walt!

 

btw, that whistle needs to go.

[Matt Harwood]

20 minutes ago, CHuDWah said:

Maybe a nitpicky question but there was a tool box on the passenger running board that looked original and/or attached - was it?  It looked like it would interfere with the side-mount and seems to have disappeared since the spare was installed?

 

That tool box on the right-hand side is actually the battery box, and it's still in place. It doesn't interfere, although getting a battery out would be a challenge with the sidemounts in place. It's actually beautifully integrated, not just a metal box, but a lid with a pair of hold-downs like the hood latches and part of it is actually the surface of the running board. 

 

You can see it in this photo:

 

 

 

And don't worry, the wolf whistle is already gone. First thing I did.

 

 

Edited October 7, 2020 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[alsancle]

40 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

And don't worry, the wolf whistle is already gone. First thing I did.

 

 

good man!

[alsancle]

On Walt's recommendation I bought the book "An Inkling of Brewster".   Matt,  you should definitely get a copy if you don't already.    It is not very big, but basically give you the history of many of the earlier cars.   2 or 3 of the salesman's data books survived with the order history which is what most of the book is based on.    Some points:

 

1.   Only 400 odd cars were built over 10 years before pending insolvency forced William Brewster to sell to RR.

 

2.  This was almost 100% a regional car manufacturer,  catering to the ultra wealthy of NY City.  

 

3.  Price was anywhere from 6k to 9k per car.  

 

4.  Business was very seasonal with no sales when customers were off in Newport for the summer, or during the holidays.  

 

5.  There is almost no mechanical difference between the early and late cars,  but each body was very individualized per order.

[Matt Harwood]

Several trusted sources suggest that 473 were built over 10 years, all pretty much mechanically identical and using the sleeve valve engine. The bodies were all custom built, of course, but looking through photos most were really only variations on a theme. This town landaulet body style was fairly popular, although it evolved from early to late production as fenders and front bodywork changed to match fashion. For example, early cars had patent leather fenders and no doors for the driver, plus a third set of fenders ahead of the rear doors. But as cars in general evolved, Brewster did make some efforts to keep up by adding steel fenders and running boards. There was also a panel brougham (one is pictured earlier in this thread) which has the same general shape but a non-folding metal roof. I have a show board with this car's purchase price listed at $10,700 but I don't know where that figure came from.

 

Nevertheless, you can very much see that their carriage building roots run deep, as the rear bodywork is probably very similar to what they were building in the 1800s. I was doing some reading about the marque and Brewster is literally the country's oldest coachbuilder (founded 1810), with founder James Brewster's great-great-great grandfather arriving in 1620 at Plymouth Rock. There was always a Brewster family member working at the company, although at one point in the late 19th century, there were actually two separate Brewster coachbuilders with two different family members running them. It seems Brewster & Co. (the one that eventually built the cars) maintained a fairly extensive library of family crests and exclusive family colors for their clients, and their varnish/paint techniques were widely regarded as the best in the industry, although the finishes at that point were still brushed on and I would imagine that brush marks would have been evident. The paint on the car today was done in the '50s and is in remarkable condition given that it's 60-70 year old lacquer, but it was obviously sprayed because it's smooth and glossy.

 

I didn't realize that their business was so seasonal, but that makes perfect sense given the majority of their clientele was in NYC. I also think it's neat that they were built on Long Island, right there in the city. It's why the cars are somewhat smaller than other luxury cars of the period. This one seems to be geared for "speed" such as it is, but more than 40 MPH was probably unthinkable given how these cars were used around town. It doesn't feel small and there's a good amount of room even for the driver, but it's not massive like a Pierce or Packard Twin Six would be. I like the way it looks and the commanding driving position and low hood surely helped it maneuver in a crowded city.

 

During WWII they tried to repurpose the Brewster factory to make airplanes, but it was configured poorly for that kind of production and getting them out of the city was problematic. 

 

Thanks for the recommendation on the book, AJ. I'll try to find one. Maybe this car is listed in there somewhere. I'd be curious to know who the original owner was--reportedly a guy in Pittsburgh.

[Walt G]

The Brewster building is at the east end of the 59th street ( Queensboro) Bridge. Brewster had several other locations in Manhattan ( NY City) for display areas/showrooms.

The late Bruce Lane's father worked for Brewster when they were still in business.

[Rusty_OToole]

Coach painting of the time might be 2 types. One used a special enamel made for brush application, in the hands of an expert with good brushes there were no brush marks in the finished paint job. The more expensive method on high end coachbuilt cars involved building up color coats, rubbing down smooth, and finishing with varnish. These were never waxed or polished but had to be taken in and revarnished every few years. These were also done by hand, with paint brushes.

[Matt Harwood]

8 hours ago, Rusty_OToole said:

Coach painting of the time might be 2 types. One used a special enamel made for brush application, in the hands of an expert with good brushes there were no brush marks in the finished paint job. The more expensive method on high end coachbuilt cars involved building up color coats, rubbing down smooth, and finishing with varnish. These were never waxed or polished but had to be taken in and revarnished every few years. These were also done by hand, with paint brushes.

 

That's true, but Brewster's unique process eliminated the need for varnish and periodic refinishing. Many others tried to copy their proprietary process but none figured it out. The downside was that brush strokes remained faintly visible, but could be diminished with regular polishing.

 

From coachbuilt.com:

 

They ground and mixed all their own colors, and from 1906 through the late twenties, a large proportion of their bodies were done in a secret oil-based finish that contained no varnish. A body finished with varnish that was regularly exposed to the elements required constant care and a total refinishing every couple of years. There were some downsides to Brewster’s oil finish. As it never dried out, it couldn’t be rubbed out smooth and brush marks used in applying it remained visible on the completed body. However, it was much more durable than varnish and repeated polishing could smooth the surface to some degree, and it didn’t require the extensive maintenance required by varnish. Brewster’s formula was a closely guarded secret and while other body-builders tried to duplicate it, none were successful.

[Matt Harwood]

At the suggestion of AJ and a visitor to our shop who was interested in the Brewster, I ordered a copy of the book, "An Inkling of Brewster." 

It arrived yesterday and I was eager to give it a read and maybe fill in some gaps in my knowledge. Check it out:

 

      

 

I have to say, the book isn't at all what I expected but perhaps we'll give some of the recipes a try. Yes, that is indeed a recipe for cooking ants.

 

Mmmmm, Brewstery.

 

 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2020 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[alsancle]

12 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

At the suggestion of AJ and a visitor to our shop who was interested in the Brewster, I ordered a copy of the book, "An Inkling of Brewster." 

It arrived yesterday and I was eager to give it a read and maybe fill in some gaps in my knowledge. Check it out:

 

      

 

I have to say, the book isn't at all what I expected but perhaps we'll give some of the recipes a try. Yes, that is indeed a recipe for cooking ants.

 

Mmmmm, Brewstery.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Look at you taking my advice.   Pretty soon I'll be changing your politics.  😀

 

Agreed it is a different sort of car book.  It was not what I expected either, but I liked it and it does contain quite a bit of otherwise unknown to me Brewster info.

 

That car is very cool.  Somebody will be happy with it.

 

[alsancle]

12 hours ago, edinmass said:

Eating ants is just like driving a Tucker..........I think I shall pass.

 

I usually never miss an opportunity to pee on Tuckers,  but lets NOT derail a good thread about a pretty cool car.

Edited October 19, 2020 by alsancle (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

4 hours ago, alsancle said:

 

 

Look at you taking my advice.   Pretty soon I'll be changing your politics.  😀

 

Agreed it is a different sort of car book.  It was not what I expected either, but I liked it and it does contain quite a bit of otherwise unknown to me Brewster info.

 

That car is very cool.  Somebody will be happy with it.

 

 

Look again at the pages I posted...

[alsancle]

17 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

Look again at the pages I posted...

the cover is correct but contents from another book?

[Matt Harwood]

1 minute ago, alsancle said:

the cover is correct but contents from another book?

 

LOL, yep. I suspect it's some kind of print-on-demand situation and the files got crossed.

 

 

Edited October 19, 2020 by Matt Harwood (see edit history)

[jdome]

If you want another Brewster there is a front clip for sale on HCCA Parts Classifieds. The sheet metal appears to be in good cond. Cowl & Windshield forward complete with radiator & Headlamps & steering column. All you need to complete it is rear fenders, body, engine, drivetrain, fuel tank, and a complete rolling chassis to make another one. 

[edinmass]

I stopped by to see Matt this weekend, and it seems had used the special "miracle car restoration spray shine" on the Brewster. We took the car out for a drive, and we got rained on, so it washed off. The bottle didn't say not to get the car wet after treatment. Go figure....another $17.99 down the drain. The radio and in dash navigation also shit the bed.........

 

DISCLOSURE- This is NOT Matt's car........but it was just too much fun to ignore.

 

Edited November 7, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

My detailer, Michael, is talented as hell!

[edinmass]

1 minute ago, Matt Harwood said:

My detailer, Michael, is talented as hell!

 

 

Look how good of a job he did cleaning the windshield........not a single bug splatter or streak! Very impressive. 👍

[Matt Harwood]

See? A little more spray wax and it's all better!

 

[1937hd45]

On 10/19/2020 at 6:10 AM, alsancle said:

 

I usually never miss an opportunity to pee on Tuckers,  but lets NOT derail a good thread about a pretty cool car.

 

Great to know I'm not alone in my opinion of Tuckers "Americas Most Over Rated Motorcar". Bob 

[Paul Dobbin]

Matt,

Thanks for the virtual ride in your Brewster.   That was my second ride in

a Brewster, with my first Brewster rides in Ted Holden's 1934 Brewster.  Being chauffered around Jupiter & West Palm Beach was a blast.

Ted's Brewster was the only one I ever saw that had been re-chassied after the great depression as instructed by the Brewster sales force.

His was rechassied onto a 1947 Buick chassis, with no visable alterations to the Brewster coachwork.   Ted was the Brewster Club Newsletter guy back then ("Because he had a copy machine").

When we toured the country 9 times (Great American Races) in his 1935 Chrysler Airflow, the Brewsters kept showing up all across the country to greet Ted and show off their Brewsters.  Most of the ones we saw were like his, with the famous heart shaped grill.  All very impressive classics to me, because I'm a flathead Ford V8 guy and most of them were still powered buy 1934 Ford V8's. (Somewhere I'm sure I have a lot of Brewster pictures) 

Edited November 23, 2020 by Paul Dobbin
Spill Check (see edit history)

[edinmass]

8 hours ago, 1937hd45 said:

 

Great to know I'm not alone in my opinion of Tuckers "Americas Most Over Rated Motorcar". Bob 

 

Who ever said a Tucker was a car? 
 

Ok, someone complained about my comment.......if you have ever worked on a Tucker.....you will realize they are not really anything close to a “car”.......They are basically hand built prototypes that are poorly constructed. Until the movie, they never brought any money, and were not respected as anything but a minor side note in car history. The welding and fabrication on them are very poor. They are more like a backyard built race car that was poorly constructed. And hey....let’s use a helicopter engine in a car......bad idea. Neat story, poor styling, and bad construction. Hope this clears things up.

Edited November 8, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[SC38dls]

I’m curious as to how much snow you got when you had Matt’s car out and how long did it last! 

[Walt G]

The late Bill Hamlin of Ontario, Ca. was an engineer at Boeing, had a 1932 Franklin Airman sedan in amazing condition, a 1934 Reo Flying Cloud coupe that he repowered with a Franklin Airman engine and 3 carburetors and a Columbia 2 speed rear out of an Auburn and owned several Tuckers. He would lap the Ontario Speedway car track at 100 mph in his Tuckers - not to shabby for a rear engine car with a helicopter engine fitted with water jackets. Say what you want about Tuckers but how many other cars of the same year could lap the Ontario Speedway at that speed?  I have had three close friends that owned Tuckers and have ridden in at least 3 different ones, have no issues with how well they perform. Have any of the people making the comments ever spent any time in one? I can attest that they can go up and down some long grades on Rt. 20 in central NY State with no issue at a fair rate of speed ( and no we didn't get stopped when we blew through traffic lights at 60+ mph 40 years ago) 😇

[1937hd45]

Can't argue with your opinion Walt, I just wouldn't want to be seen in one. Nothing wrong with a Ford or Chevrolet that might be 20MPH slower. Bob 

[edinmass]

21 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

See? A little more spray wax and it's all better!

 

 

Matt.......your new detail guy is a hard worker.......he polished off the white walls right off the tires! 😜