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Is the antique automobile hobby ready for the coming switchover to electric cars, etc.


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My son is interested but doesn't have the time or money to get involved...for now. My 2 daughters and their husbands couldn't care less. If I were to give them any of my cars/bikes, before the end of the day it would be advertised on Craigslist, and parked on their front lawn with a For Sale sign in the windshield.

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I have commented before that I taught 5 to 12 year olds for 40 years - saw everyone in the school as I taught art and it was a large school population over 1.000 kids. Teaching ,  you need to be more creative - as a student and as a teacher. People of any age want to know more about something that may be interesting because it is beautiful or just because it is odd. I also gave a few talks to assorted classes on history- local history. I have telephone directories from the pre WWII era. they not only listed who lived at an address but usually the occupation. I would have the kids write down their address , I would look it up ( it was a reverse directory, address then name) . Told them this was a personal history about where they lived! They would bring this home and share with their parents who were in shock! Made the kids happy as it let them teach their parents something!

To get younger people interested you have to make it fun, show them the local building that is now a pizza place and say that was the local Hudson dealership and show them a Hudson or a picture of one. I will not get into again how costly it is to go on a car tour now for certain clubs where you want your family along ( ie the kids) and to see others on the tour making them welcome, asking them if they would like to look inside your car and sit on a wool cloth seat ! We all need to make the old car interest more attractive and interesting to a younger generation - it takes effort and thought, if you get 4 kids out of a group of 25 interested then you are starting to succeed. Do not ignore the girls and think they don't like cars or won't. Mention Janet Guthrie who won the INDY 500 , she was a great lady and  yes, I knew her as a friend and she loved automotive history too! as she would visit Austin Clark at his house and look stuff up in his library. Not often but the fact she did at all is worthy.

It is up to ALL OF US to MAKE THE EFFORT.

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So over 70 years of messing with cars of all kinds and eras I have most enjoyed my experiences with 1931 Buicks.   I'm working on the third one I have owned over a 50yr time span.  My dad was an engineering manager at Ford when the first one came home from a watermelon farm in Wayne, MI.  He bought that car to share with my older brother and was more interested in how advanced the car was, it would have been easier for him to get and restore a model A Ford.  Ford invested their early engineering effort in manufacturing process and mass marketing for the working man that needed economical transportation.

 

I just thought the Buick was cool at age 12 when the first one came home but later began to realize how advanced Buicks were.   They had overhead valves, from 1930-31 they transitioned from 6 cylinders to all inline 8's, they had roller tappet cams, they had vacuum operated carburetors, they had dual point distributors, they used fiber timing gears, they had all gear driven accessories except the fan, they had oil temperature regulators, they had synchro-mesh transmissions, they had torque tube drive, they had advanced body ventilation for their time.   If gasoline gets to be on the endangered species list it may become impractical to drive these cars but they will still bear witness to the monumental early engineering that went into their making.   At my age I'm not gonna lay in bed at night wondering if the 31 Buick rumble seat coupe I'm working on is gonna go out of fashion, I stopped worrying about that when I donated my bell bottoms and polyester leisure suits.

 

Electric cars are nothing new and offer their own opportunities for early car collectors.    Ever hear of Brush or Edison Electric?  I can't get too excited about what a threat electric cars are to the hobby...

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1 hour ago, TerryB said:

Matt, do you think your sons would have a different reaction if the cars were more recent offerings from Porsche, Corvette, Ferrari and similar makes?  My son likes older cars but really digs the newer stuff for cutting edge design and incorporation of performance technology in the mix.  I can see that in younger fans, a trip to a museum can be educational but it may not reflect the style you find exciting.

 

I don't think they're waiting for the right car to turn them on, since we sell all kinds of cars here. My youngest son is afraid of going fast, so he's definitely not into Corvettes, although vintage muscle cars seem kind of interesting to him. He helped me with the driving video for that black 1970 Chevelle SS454, and he liked that car enough that he said he might like a Chevelle someday. I took that as a good sign. But then he started talking about the new VR headset he wants and the Chevelle was yesterday's new. He's young, he doesn't need to have a specific interest in anything yet.

 

The older one, at 14, seems to like riding in the fast cars and enjoys the speed, but he doesn't really make any sounds about wanting such a thing. He's mentioned that he wants my wife's 2018 Ford Focus ST as his first car, so maybe in a few years that will be a car he likes. Who knows? I've been thinking about buying him a Model A this Christmas/birthday and letting him tinker with that until he can drive in a year or two, but I just don't know if it would be something he truly enjoys or just another thing that will gather dust when he loses interest. He's also a contrarian, so he'd drive something like an Isetta just so people would think he was quirky, even if he actually hated it.

 

The toughest thing about kids is gauging what truly DOES interest them. Their attention spans are short and there's so much competing for their eyes. That's why I don't push them too hard to love my hobby and if they pick it up on their own, then I'll know it's legit, whatever form it may take (muscle cars, antiques, late-model performance cars, whatever).

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1 minute ago, Matt Harwood said:

The toughest thing about kids is gauging what truly DOES interest them. Their attention spans are short and there's so much competing for their eyes. That's why I don't push them too hard to love my hobby and if they pick it up on their own, then I'll know it's legit, whatever form it may take (muscle cars, antiques, late-model performance cars, whatever).

Amen Matt.  My mother taught 1st grade for 25 years in the Wayne Westland Schools and when she retired was cited for her success in getting young kids, not just to read, but to be interested in reading.  The key to her success what exploring one on one with her students to find out what they were interested in, then teaching them that reading was a way to learn about and enjoy a subject of their interest.  

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My son in his early days and more recently.  The white pinewood derby car was supposed to be the Lotus from a James Bond film.  And today...we’ll he does not own that car in the photo but does drive a late model BMW.

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2 hours ago, Peter Gariepy said:

 

Just curious. Why "private"? Why not be more visible? 

FYI: I recently helped with some technology issues with a smaller club to help with their "private" forum.  Participation is modest but constant.  No more than 150 participants. Maybe 30 "core" participants. They saw being public as both a 'service' to their membership, and worried public would expose them. 

 

Peter, I'm fairly sure I know the club you're mentioning, and I myself have been involved in some of those discussions.

 

There IS a large exposure, as you say, and not all of that is good.  Once the private forum moves to the public forum and starts posting comments and pictures and information, it's public and can be used or abused.  It's just like making a comment on Facebook and thinking it's private.  It's not, it can then be used, quoted (or worse, misquoted), copied, by anyone in the world.  

 

I feel there's some merit to having a "private" forum, as we're labeling it.  In the case of the forum that's considering moving to the AACA, there are numerous reasons that I, and some others, aren't in favor of it.

 

-On the private forum, I know just about everyone, and can be much more candid in my comments and not expect some "stranger" to call me an idiot (as I've been called on the AACA forums)

 

-There's more anonymity, if someone doesn't want their name bantered around on a public forum, which the AACA is.  I started out keeping my name out of my posts on AACA, until someone posted something like "Gee, David Coco (Trimacar) was a big help when I talked to him the other day"....so much for keeping a low profile, and I know that some people on that other forum don't want their name out there for privacy reasons

 

-There is an undercurrent of animosity and criticism on the AACA forums.  Don't get me wrong, I love the opportunity to be here and post my thoughts, but it's a totally different tone than a private forum.  I once was rationally discussing a topic on the AACA forum, and a post was made saying that they hoped I wasn't in the educational system, I was so stupid....that tone is not evident in the private forum.   And, gosh forbid one post a car for sale on the AACA, the comments can get downright nasty, which is the reason I think the poster of a for sale thread should have the option to not allow comments.

 

-The argument is made that if a forum moves to the AACA, there are moderators who can delete or modify negative postings.  That's fine, but some of those posters with a negative outlook may then go elsewhere and say "Gee, that XYZ club is a bunch of snobs, they deleted my post".  Again, 99% of this forum is friendly, but there's an element that's not, and that doesn't even bring into account the newbies, anyone in the world can get a user name and post gibberish.

 

-What if the club in question wants to discuss a sensitive, internal issue, on the private forum?  Can't do that on the AACA, or if you do, it's airing all the club's dirty laundry.  There's one club on AACA which had a big discussion on a major topic involving the Board of Directors of that club, I cringed when I saw it, as it should NOT have been public.

 

-Last but not least, the "exposure" is used as a positive for moving to the AACA, but my personal feeling is that I don't think that having that private forum move here will make much difference.  That marque has been represented on the AACA forum for a while, and that section has little use now, why is it going to attract new use (that's not already on the private forum?)

 

I don't intend these as arguing points, I just wanted to let you know my thoughts on the subject.

 

 

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3 hours ago, Str8-8-Dave said:

Electric cars are nothing new and offer their own opportunities for early car collectors.    Ever hear of Brush or Edison Electric?  I can't get too excited about what a threat electric cars are to the hobby...

 

I think you missed the point entirely.

  • Electric cars will be the norm sooner than you think.  Most NEW car will be electric within 10 years, the vast majority of cars on the road will be electric within 20.
  • Gas stations will become charging stations, any many people will simply charge their vehicles at home.
  • Gas stations will reduce in number dramatically.
  • Gas will be more expensive - and its use even frowned upon.
  • Mechanical service will switch to electric focus.
  • Mechanics school will change focus to electric.

The change and threat and is very real... and is coming whether we like it or not.

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3 minutes ago, trimacar said:

I don't intend these as arguing points, I just wanted to let you know my thoughts on the subject.

 

I appreciate you sharing your point of view. I learned something.

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Driver less technology is coming sooner then you think, real soon. That might have more of an impact on the future then electric cars to the hobby. Cars will just become another throw away appliance,    

Edited by John348 (see edit history)
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12 minutes ago, John348 said:

Driver less technology is coming sooner then you think, real soon. That might have more of an impact on the future then electric cars to the hobby. Cars will just become another throw away appliance,    

 

Actually, I recently read an article in Car & Driver saying that most of the OEMs have quietly backed way off the development of self-driving cars. There are still computer firms working on it as an exercise in programming and processing power, and they may come to fruition that way at some distant point in the future (and the OEMs could license the technology), but for now the engineering might of the big automakers is not heading in that direction with any kind of urgency. There were just too many situations where a human could anticipate what was about to happen but there was no way to teach a computer that kind of mental trick. The liability was going to be massive as well.

 

Interesting read: https://www.caranddriver.com/features/a32266303/self-driving-cars-are-taking-longer-to-build-than-everyone-thought/

 

Other sources say that the problems in a crowded environment may never be solved--the processing power to handle it will be too expensive and the lidar, radar, and optical sensors to feed the data to that processor will only add to the cost. And nobody's signing on for the liability nightmares when one of these cars kills a person (which has already happened and was kind of the inflection point of everyone backing off). One study suggests that autonomy might be best suited for a fixed route, like a bus or a delivery vehicle, while others indicate that it will take a significant infrastructure change as well as the ability for the cars to communicate with each other--making the technology so universal that Google's car can talk to Mercedes' car can talk to Mobileye's car can talk to Ford's car might be challenging since each system will be proprietary. Universality might never even come--witness the Mac vs. PC debate that continues more than 35 years after the invention of such things.

 

I'm not worried about self driving cars. If they happen at all, they won't happen fast and probably not in any way that mandates their ownership/rental/use by the general public. Maybe my kids will see them find widespread acceptance, but I'm not so sure I'd take that bet...

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The problem is that an "oops" can make a large smoking hole in the ground. Heard of a Tesla that "saw" the open space under the center of a semi trailer and assumed it was clear. And then there was the lander that thought meters were feet. Or the Kangaroos with stingers. The landscape is littered with poor code and the cpus are not even redundant (heck I had a pair of Delcotronic amplifiers on the dash of my Corvette (63 FI/TI) and a knife switch to changeover).

 

Back in '92 I was amazed when GM introed ABS across the board. My thinking was that with an airbag, the incident had already happened while the point of ABS was avoidance so if it failed...

 

If the manufacturers are backing away from self-guidance, it is probably the lawyers and not the engineers. Suspect the first use will be on Interstates.

 

And have still not seen the logistical impact of millions of EVs plugging in at night...

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23 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

Actually, I recently read an article in Car & Driver saying

The latest issue says that since sedans, or regular "cars", are dying off, they were going to change the name of the magazine to "SUV and Driver".....

 

Think they were just kidding...

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44 minutes ago, Peter Gariepy said:

 

I think you missed the point entirely.

  • Electric cars will be the norm sooner than you think.  Most NEW car will be electric within 10 years, the vast majority of cars on the road will be electric within 20.
  • Gas stations will become charging stations, any many people will simply charge their vehicles at home.
  • Gas stations will reduce in number dramatically.
  • Gas will be more expensive - and its use even frowned upon.
  • Mechanical service will switch to electric focus.
  • Mechanics school will change focus to electric.

The change and threat and is very real... and is coming whether we like it or not.

 

 This nightmare happened to me once before. My Grandfather worked as a machinist for the SP Railways. My goal in the early 50's was to be somehow in that world. A fireman, then Engineer or building of or maintenance of steam locos, just somewhere in that world.  That world was Steam Engines. When steam went away in or around 1956 all the the romance and the key word interest went away.

  I don't doubt for a minute your point at all Peter. Having worked for a major automotive company for 34  years and been in the automotive repair business for ten years before that, I know it's coming. Mandated involvement by the government my company had already produced two types of vehicles in the very  early 90's.

 

 The question remains what is to become of all the cars we've restored, preserved, and collected.

Will there be fuel/oil for these vehicles, and will it be compatible for our engines?

 Will there be parts for these cars?

 Will there be machine shops still in business to fulfill our needs?

 Will the government turn against us and not allow our vehicles on the road?

 Will the hobby just be for the rich to indulge themselves.

 Will there be enough interest from younger people?

I think there will be a lot of cars in the future going for cheap, just like the old locos.

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Welll, I have a shelf of steam engineering information and know how to build a wood gas generator and a still. One and/or the other will be useful.

 

Was a show on "Last Chance Garage" on a wood generator.

 

BTW am on two AACA Marque forums and posts are near zero. Is this happening everywhere ?

 

 

Edited by padgett (see edit history)
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I think the more interesting question is, if we go all electric or pedal powered  cars, what happens to all that gasoline?

 

The world can't stop refining petroleum, gasoline is a byproduct.  Look around you, all the plastics are made from petroleum byproducts, and even some things you can't imagine are petroleum, are.

 

If all the products produced from petroleum disappeared tomorrow, you couldn't function.  Everything from cell phones to computers to Tupperware, to radiators and body panels and interiors on cars, all petroleum based.  PET bottles, huge number of food containers, plastic bags and plastic storage bags, the list goes on and on.

 

It's just not realistic to think we can turn our dependence on oil and gas around on a dime, won't happen.

 

 

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29 minutes ago, trimacar said:

I think the more interesting question is, if we go all electric or pedal powered  cars, what happens to all that gasoline?

 

The world can't stop refining petroleum, gasoline is a byproduct.  Look around you, all the plastics are made from petroleum byproducts, and even some things you can't imagine are petroleum, are.

 

If all the products produced from petroleum disappeared tomorrow, you couldn't function.  Everything from cell phones to computers to Tupperware, to radiators and body panels and interiors on cars, all petroleum based.  PET bottles, huge number of food containers, plastic bags and plastic storage bags, the list goes on and on.

 

It's just not realistic to think we can turn our dependence on oil and gas around on a dime, won't happen.

 

giphy.gif

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4 hours ago, Peter Gariepy said:

I think you missed the point entirely.

You know what Peter- I believe the electrification of our transportation is inevitable too and I welcome that because I happen to believe in the science of global warming and really didn't like it when west coast fires made Michigan skies turn gray for several days.  Battery technology is still the limiting factor, I couldn't live with a car that either runs out of range in 300 miles or can't be recharged in 5 minutes, the time it take me to pump 18 gallons of gas into my Subaru which then has a range of over 500 miles.  Also I think the infrastructure in this country has fallen so far behind that these charging stations you think are gonna pop up on every corner will have to wait until our roads can be rebuilt, our bridges stop falling down and the poor kids in Flint Michigan can rely on tap water in there homes not to lead poison them to death.

 

But where I think you worry too much is you have no confidence in the inquisitive nature of people to seek out the history of transportation that precedes the advent of zero emission electric vehicles and as long as the cars are out there they will find ways to collect them, restore them display them and maybe even drive them. Ok- lets just assume fossil fuels do go away which I think is a stretch, who will be the first to hide an electric motor in the transmission of a Pierce Arrow and drive it?  That would be a unique experience to sit in the opulence of a car of that stature and drive it without worrying if it was gonna toss a rod and leave me on the side of the road.  Then I can go to one of those new fancy charging stations and fill it it with megawatt premium.  It will be quiet, won't stink up the air ans still be fun to drive. 

 

I've seen other threats to our hobby that were more harmful than the natural progression of technology.  There were some nut jobs in congress not too many years ago that thought we should have to surrender our collector vehicles so they could be properly scrapped, after all they reasoned, they don't meet emissions or safety standards so they are just not good for us.  Well- that didn't happen either.  To me, the bigger threat to the hobby is what is happening to the antique car parts supply chain and restoration services and how expensive it is getting to restore a car.  Right now the first thing I do before I send parts off for chrome or rebuild or whatever is to call the shop and make sure they are still in business with Covid lurking, you never know about that either. 

 

But worry on my friend, you have your point of view and I have mine based on the experience of the 70 years I've been around this planet...

 

 

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10 hours ago, Peter Gariepy said:

 

Just curious. Why "private"? Why not be more visible? 

FYI: I recently helped with some technology issues with a smaller club to help with their "private" forum.  Participation is modest but constant.  No more than 150 participants. Maybe 30 "core" participants. They saw being public as both a 'service' to their membership, and worried public would expose them. 

 

I have had this discussion with another small club about making their forum public.   My argument is that it is important to show that there is active support for a particular kind of car, even if it is relatively obscure.   Guys looking to buy one may take notice (if they are smart).

 

 

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5 minutes ago, Str8-8-Dave said:

You know what Peter- I believe the electrification of our transportation is inevitable too and I welcome that because I happen to believe in the science of global warming and really didn't like it when west coast fires made Michigan skies turn gray for several days.  Battery technology is still the limiting factor, I couldn't live with a car that either runs out of range in 300 miles or can't be recharged in 5 minutes, the time it take me to pump 18 gallons of gas into my Subaru which then has a range of over 500 miles.  Also I think the infrastructure in this country has fallen so far behind that these charging stations you think are gonna pop up on every corner will have to wait until our roads can be rebuilt, our bridges stop falling down and the poor kids in Flint Michigan can rely on tap water in there homes not to lead poison them to death.

 

Are you saying that the fires on the west coast are caused by global warming?

 

 

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It's not the ability to build battery's that will hold electric cars back. Or the level of technology imbedded in the battery. It's the scale of relatively scarce metals { lead , lithium } and elements { rare earths } that would be needed to make everything " clean power " and make all the vehicles " zero emission " . If transportation as we know it exists in the medium future it won't be battery powered or dependent. There just isn't enough raw material for that mass of battery's. I doubt near future tech can develop a type of battery that can fill the worlds power needs.

 Battery's are fine for a tiny percentage of the worlds vehicles, and a really tiny percentage of the worlds power grid needs. But beyond that you are talking about unobtanium.

 

Greg

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3 minutes ago, 1912Staver said:

It's not the ability to build battery's that will hold electric cars back. Or the level of technology imbedded in the battery. It's the scale of relatively scarce metals { lead , lithium } and elements { rare earths } that would be needed to make everything " clean power " and make all the vehicles " zero emission " . If transportation as we know it exists in the medium future it won't be battery powered or dependent. There just isn't enough raw material for that mass of battery's. I doubt near future tech can develop a type of battery that can fill the worlds power needs.

 Battery's are fine for a tiny percentage of the worlds vehicles, and a really tiny percentage of the worlds power grid needs. But beyond that you are talking about unobtanium.

 

Greg

So that equates to cars for the elite and mass transportation for the peasants and serfs.

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21 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Are you saying that the fires on the west coast are caused by global warming?

My opinion is Global warming is a tipping component in the fires out west.  Realistically the numbers say the vast majority of fires are man-made but 130 degree ambient temperatures, very low humidity, constant winds and drought all traceable to a shift in ocean currents.  So yes- that is my opinion...

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8 minutes ago, Str8-8-Dave said:

My opinion is Global warming is a tipping component in the fires out west.  Realistically the numbers say the vast majority of fires are man-made but 130 degree ambient temperatures, very low humidity, constant winds and drought all traceable to a shift in ocean currents.  So yes- that is my opinion...

If I read theNASA data correctly, the earth’s land/sea temperature has increased, from 1880 to 2020, 1 degree centigrade, or about 1.7 degree Fahrenheit.  I have a hard time thinking that causes wildfires.

 

Research the great Western fires of 1910, and how that changed forest management policies for the past 110 years, and not for the better.  Then, research how Yellowstone Park handles fires the “natural” way.  

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8 minutes ago, Str8-8-Dave said:

My opinion is Global warming is a tipping component in the fires out west.  Realistically the numbers say the vast majority of fires are man-made but 130 degree ambient temperatures, very low humidity, constant winds and drought all traceable to a shift in ocean currents.  So yes- that is my opinion...

Mine is forest manage that turned into mismanagement because it was  hampered by organizations holding up measures in court, and allowing building housing tracks right up to and into the forest.  

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It just happen today..

 

The order, which requires that all new passenger vehicles sold in California by 2035 be zero-emission, “will improve air quality as well as improve the economic climate here in the state of California.  

 

No more  New Ferrari Testarossa  in California??  in 15 years...

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4 minutes ago, nick8086 said:

It just happen today..

 

The order, which requires that all new passenger vehicles sold in California by 2035 be zero-emission, “will improve air quality as well as improve the economic climate here in the state of California.  

 

No more  New Ferrari Testarossa  in California??  in 15 years...

Sometimes I just wish it would break away and find the Aleutian Trench. 

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14 minutes ago, nick8086 said:

It just happen today..

 

The order, which requires that all new passenger vehicles sold in California by 2035 be zero-emission, “will improve air quality as well as improve the economic climate here in the state of California.  

 

No more  New Ferrari Testarossa  in California??  in 15 years...

You do realize that an "Executive Order" in not binding on the next Executive, right? That means that despite it being California, that Executive Order does not mean anything. It is just smoke and mirrors. 

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1 hour ago, trimacar said:

If I read theNASA data correctly, the earth’s land/sea temperature has increased, from 1880 to 2020, 1 degree centigrade, or about 1.7 degree Fahrenheit.  I have a hard time thinking that causes wildfires.

 

Research the great Western fires of 1910, and how that changed forest management policies for the past 110 years, and not for the better.  Then, research how Yellowstone Park handles fires the “natural” way.  

 

Dave,   could you explain to a simpleton like me how NASA comes up with those numbers?    Do they have a bunch of calibrated thermometers in untouched locations around the world measuring temps since 1880?     Without a time machine, I'm not sure how they do that.

 

 

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1 hour ago, MCHinson said:

You do realize that an "Executive Order" in not binding on the next Executive, right? That means that despite it being California, that Executive Order does not mean anything. It is just smoke and mirrors. 

I am not sure about smoke and Mirrors? I do know they have a lot of smoke...  I had two days of an orange sun set here in Nebraska..

 

One should focus on the most pressing needs?  With this new covid-19. We have a lot of  loses to our economy.. No football, Colleges will lose $150 million?  The list go on...

 

No money to tax?  Most government or states   are in the  red...   I own rentals it is hard to not collecting 2K a month for  8 months to find a new renter..  It takes time to get back on your feet...

smoke.jpg

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12 hours ago, TerryB said:

My son in his early days and more recently.  The white pinewood derby car was supposed to be the Lotus from a James Bond film.  And today...we’ll he does not own that car in the photo but does drive a late model BMW.

EE3577F3-6DC3-4B36-8C31-1CBAEEDD289C.jpeg

C828B6D7-D6F0-4C45-8B74-DA743D37FC22.jpeg

 

Doesn't look like he's aged a day! Well, maybe a day...or too. He looks like a great guy. Great car, too.

 

And obviously an excellent performing Pinewood Derby car, as well. After competing for several years with nothing to show, my son finally won first place trophy for his den in his last year of Cub Scouts. He (and I) worked hard on that car!

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It says it will not affect the use and operation of existing gasoline cars and used gasoline cars can still be bought and sold.

 

I also suspect that like many other similar mandates, this one--however well-intentioned--will not be anything more than a symbolic gesture with an unachievable deadline. It's also an executive order, which doesn't make it a law. It will be interesting to see where it goes, but I wouldn't start looking for your fainting couch just yet.

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11 hours ago, trimacar said:

If I read theNASA data correctly, the earth’s land/sea temperature has increased, from 1880 to 2020, 1 degree centigrade, or about 1.7 degree Fahrenheit.  I have a hard time thinking that causes wildfires.

 

Research the great Western fires of 1910, and how that changed forest management policies for the past 110 years, and not for the better.  Then, research how Yellowstone Park handles fires the “natural” way.  

You may want to read a little more of that NASA report you reference.  1.7 degrees Fahrenheit mean temp rise may not sound like much but it has shifted ocean currents drastically, causing melting of the ice fields of the arctic and huge weather changes across the US.  The synopsis of effects for the US are summarized along with a brief article on the difference a degree makes appear in the NASA report here.  If you are gonna quote the NASA report don't cherry pick it without reading it in it's entirety.

 

https://climate.nasa.gov/effects/

 

 

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10 hours ago, nick8086 said:

It just happen today..

 

The order, which requires that all new passenger vehicles sold in California by 2035 be zero-emission, “will improve air quality as well as improve the economic climate here in the state of California.  

 

No more  New Ferrari Testarossa  in California??  in 15 years...

 

There hasn't been a new Ferrari Testarossa in nearly 25 years...

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