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1929 Cadillac 341B (New price $22,500) - Reduced to $20,000


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https://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/cto/d/scottsdale-1929-cadillac-4-door-sedan/7198166452.html

1929 Cadillac 4 door sedan series 341B
Dual side mounts, luggage rack with trunk, not shown. 
Buffalo knock-off wire wheels
Classic Car Club of America full classic
Very nice survivor with older cosmetic restoration
Body by Fisher
V-8 engine, 341 cubic inch, 95 h.p. 140 inch wheel base, weight 5,000lbs
Runs and drives well, Az title since 1998, previously California
Located in Scottsdale
Price $26,500.00

Calls preferred
Thank you, Jim

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  • 4 weeks later...

I was initially discouraged by the asking price given my ownership of an identical car, but then I took a closer look at this car. A LOT of needs and probably not nearly as nice as it looks in photos. Lots of important little stuff is missing or incorrect and I bet the paint is much worse than it looks in photos. I suspect it's more than a "clean it up and go" situation.

 

A few more price drops and I'd be in just to have a parts car. With a fresh torque tube, I could give the overdrive another try...

 

 

Edited by Matt Harwood (see edit history)
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  • Laughing Coyote changed the title to 1929 Cadillac 341B (New price $22,500)
59 minutes ago, JamesR said:

Beautiful vehicle, but I admit I know nothing about this stuff. That being said, it's without a doubt the prettiest "parts car" I've ever seen.

 

 

Jim, for it to be qualified as a parts car, it would need to be complete .........which it is not........

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Alright, the 1928/29 Cadillac just happens to be my favorite car, and even though I’ll probably never own one I’ve monitored the asking prices for these things in the Brown Scourge (HMN) for the past 40 years and this is the lowest price I’ve ever seen for an intact running/driving one.

So I’ve got to ask: Just what would the cost be to bring this one up to presentable touring condition (summer use touring, 3 to 500 miles per year - not the crazy cross country tours some of you compete on)?
I’ve got an idea as to what paint/body and interior would cost and what I could live with (not this ‘refurbished’ idea of an interior and definitely not one of the ‘original upholstery’ otherwise fully ‘restored’ cars - wouldn’t touch one of those with a 10 foot pole).

Realistically, what would it take to bring this car up to mechanical snuff?

(I can tell you to the penny what it takes for a 1918 Buick....)

Edited by Ben P.
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My 1929 Town sedan. Bought from eBay for $25,000.

A postcard from the "Chapman Auto Museum" in Texas offering the car dated 1975 shows the same tires it has now. (no cracks it was warehouse stored since the 1970s) I have yet to replace them. 

 

Seller said it ran but of course it did not.  (stuck valves and heads stuck to studs)

Pull engine for total rebuild by machine shop that does full classic work on the side = $15,000  Yes, I did EVERYTHING! poured babbit new roller and pins on lifters, etc. (A full classic engine is not a Ford flathead, there are no shortcuts)

 

Then rebuilt and repair; starter, generator, carb, vacuum tank, clutch, brake linings, fuel sender and dash gauge, Shutter thermostat rebuilt, Steele rubber stuff, etc., etc.  

 

I have $25,000 in it making it run and operate reliably. (parts only, did my own work)

 

Last painted in late 1960s(?) Still shines. . . .

It has a VERY NICE original interior 🙂   

I dont plan to do much more to the aesthetics. Chrome is shiny . . . . 

 

So how much? Well, I am now into it for $50,000.

Value to sell? It has been estimated that it might realistically produce $30,000 cash in hand (closed body style)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by m-mman (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, Ben P. said:

Alright, the 1928/29 Cadillac just happens to be my favorite car, and even though I’ll probably never own one I’ve monitored the asking prices for these things in the Brown Scourge (HMN) for the past 40 years and this is the lowest price I’ve ever seen for an intact running/driving one.

So I’ve got to ask: Just what would the cost be to bring this one up to presentable touring condition (summer use touring, 3 to 500 miles per year - not the crazy cross country tours some of you compete on)?
I’ve got an idea as to what paint/body and interior would cost and what I could live with (not this ‘refurbished’ idea of an interior and definitely not one of the ‘original upholstery’ otherwise fully ‘restored’ cars - wouldn’t touch one of those with a 10 foot pole).

Realistically, what would it take to bring this car up to mechanical snuff?

(I can tell you to the penny what it takes for a 1918 Buick....)


 

The problem with Cadillac’s is tenfold over a Buick. I could go on for hours. And yes, I have owned a bunch of them....and driven them tens of thousands of miles. Any Cadillac with a four or eight cylinder engine built before 1932 is a HUGE handful for countless reasons. The work, and the money never......ever stop. The car in the photo has lots of problems......I’m not trying to dump on it, but I see so many things looking at the photos in under a minute it makes me want to run away screaming. I won’t own a car that is incorrect, incomplete, or suffers from poor workmanship. We don’t know the condition of the wood. We don’t know the condition of the engine/chassis, and add in the electrical system, tires, ect, ect, ect, ect, ect..........there is NO END to the downside of a “cheap Cadillac”.

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Yup, that’s exactly what I wanted to know and that would explain the ‘parts car’ comments. Since my skill set requires me to pay shop rate for everything I’d unquestionably be limited to one that’s had everything redone - and recently. Even then I’d probably still be in over my head. Yeah I might get into one of these on the other side of the Pearly Gates.

 

Since I shared a snarky opinion on ‘original upholstery’ cars I ought to clarify:

I’ve seen just two types of ‘original upholstery’ restored cars. 1) Truly nicely preserved ones - which I’d be so fearful of damaging I probably wouldn’t enjoy the car.

2) Well decomposed ones that the owner has declared ‘worth preserving’ (and might have actually convinced himself of) after finding out the sheer cost of replacing - which is probably equal to the car’s full value. Possibly more. The Fisher interiors were especially nicely done and it’s doubtful that more than a handful of people are even capable of coming remotely close to matching them today. Very doubtful.

 

These wood framed cars - if it’s not a Ford or certain Chevies and it wasn’t already fully (fully - not cosmetically) restored by the late 1970’s/early 80’s it most likely will never be. The few people today with the skill and experience to do it right all have a shop rate. It was a different world in the 70’s/‘80’s when a few of the people who built these cars were still around and could dabble with restorations or at least share their expertise.

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My '29 has been bulletproof reliable for 10 years now. Admittedly I didn't drive it much this year, but it has never let us down. Perhaps I should 1) consider myself lucky, and 2) assume that there are problems ahead if I keep driving it? Meh. I need to get it out and drive it more next summer.

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A '29 341B five passenger coupe sets in storage about two miles from here.  Typical partially disassembled project acquired by a fellow who "never got around to it" then wished it off on his nephew.    Probably much more of a parts car, unlikely ever to be restored, though the nephew continues to harbor visions of such.

Edited by 58L-Y8 (see edit history)
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4 hours ago, Ben P. said:

Since I shared a snarky opinion on ‘original upholstery’ cars I ought to clarify:

 

This is my original cloth, 90 year old interior. 

I can forgive a lot of paint issues that others would not stand for, but I REALLY appreciate and seek out a nice original interior. I agree with you that except for some very popular heavily reproduced cars it is either expensive or near impossible to make them correct. 

 

I was disappointed that it didn't run as the seller claimed, but I also knew that I could rebuild the mechanicals (I didnt expect it to cost so much however) and the car DID have a nice interior that I would be happy with. 

$_57.JPG

$_58.JPG

$_52.JPG

$_4.JPG

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The interior in my Fisher (base model) is Mohair (hair from the Angora Goat) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohair

Different from sheep wool. Read about it, soft but also rather durable. 

 

I haven't seen too many cars RESTORED with this mohair cloth. Typically owners go with (wool) broadcloth or modern velour. 

But as I said, I prefer good (not necessary perfect) original. 

 

Oh and something else I learned about these cars. (my first 1929 car ) You know that the wood framing is an issue, but what is rarely discussed is the POT METAL! The car is filled with the poor 1920s alloy all over the place. 

 

Steering column switches and lever supports, all tail & cowl light supports, speedo cable into transmission, fuel tank sending unit, etc. 

ALL these were shattered and need to be replaced with new brass castings. (several were already broken and had been glued together) 

 

The Distributor is also made from the same crap and shatters. (mine was already glued together).  A car cant run with a shattered distributor. Classic & Exotic Services in Michigan reproduces them in real metal (thankfully) BUT . . . . at $2000(!) this is the most I have ever paid for a distributor. . . . . The radiator (Brass works) was $3000 . . . If you want to make it right (and very reliable) . . . .you just have to pay. . . .  

 

This reinforces what Ed was saying about the expense of buying a 'cheap' unrestored car. 

 

Edited by m-mman (see edit history)
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Naive question...   is pot metal prevalent on many 1928-1932 cars (or maybe wider date range)?   Did Cadillac do something different to be more of a problem - or is it related to scarcity of parts for certain makes/models?  If there is a previous thread, I didn't find it.   Thanks!

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On 10/22/2020 at 1:15 AM, edinmass said:

I didn’t go into the detail of pot Metal.........but it’s one of the major reasons Cadillac’s are very, very expensive to own. 

You have to give Mike Butters a try at castings. He is very busy even though he is full time at it. But his prices are very reasonable and does top quality work shipping parts around the world. He did all the castings on my 30 Cadillac.  

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On 10/21/2020 at 5:45 PM, m-mman said:

My 1929 Town sedan. Bought from eBay for $25,000.

A postcard from the "Chapman Auto Museum" in Texas offering the car dated 1975 shows the same tires it has now. (no cracks it was warehouse stored since the 1970s) I have yet to replace them. 

 

Seller said it ran but of course it did not.  (stuck valves and heads stuck to studs)

Pull engine for total rebuild by machine shop that does full classic work on the side = $15,000  Yes, I did EVERYTHING! poured babbit new roller and pins on lifters, etc. (A full classic engine is not a Ford flathead, there are no shortcuts)

 

Then rebuilt and repair; starter, generator, carb, vacuum tank, clutch, brake linings, fuel sender and dash gauge, Shutter thermostat rebuilt, Steele rubber stuff, etc., etc.  

 

I have $25,000 in it making it run and operate reliably. (parts only, did my own work)

 

Last painted in late 1960s(?) Still shines. . . .

It has a VERY NICE original interior 🙂   

I dont plan to do much more to the aesthetics. Chrome is shiny . . . . 

 

So how much? Well, I am now into it for $50,000.

Value to sell? It has been estimated that it might realistically produce $30,000 cash in hand (closed body style)

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, but your accomplishment is priceless.

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 10/21/2020 at 7:55 PM, Ben P. said:

Yup, that’s exactly what I wanted to know and that would explain the ‘parts car’ comments. Since my skill set requires me to pay shop rate for everything I’d unquestionably be limited to one that’s had everything redone - and recently. Even then I’d probably still be in over my head. Yeah I might get into one of these on the other side of the Pearly Gates.

 

Since I shared a snarky opinion on ‘original upholstery’ cars I ought to clarify:

I’ve seen just two types of ‘original upholstery’ restored cars. 1) Truly nicely preserved ones - which I’d be so fearful of damaging I probably wouldn’t enjoy the car.

2) Well decomposed ones that the owner has declared ‘worth preserving’ (and might have actually convinced himself of) after finding out the sheer cost of replacing - which is probably equal to the car’s full value. Possibly more. The Fisher interiors were especially nicely done and it’s doubtful that more than a handful of people are even capable of coming remotely close to matching them today. Very doubtful.

 

These wood framed cars - if it’s not a Ford or certain Chevies and it wasn’t already fully (fully - not cosmetically) restored by the late 1970’s/early 80’s it most likely will never be. The few people today with the skill and experience to do it right all have a shop rate. It was a different world in the 70’s/‘80’s when a few of the people who built these cars were still around and could dabble with restorations or at least share their expertise.

I am fully restoring my 1929 Marmon touring speedster, and I had to face the reality of replacing the rooten wood frames of two doors...it is a nightmare these days...

Edited by JRA (see edit history)
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  • Laughing Coyote changed the title to 1929 Cadillac 341B (New price $22,500) - Reduced to $20,000
On 10/26/2020 at 1:33 AM, edinmass said:

One can go to school on GM pot Metal. Long story short.......1928 and before not so bad, 1929 and most of 1930 is terrible, 1931 and later is much improved. All of it needing rechrome sucks.

 

Do you mean pot-metal trim?  What trim, such as

interior door handles and dashboard?

Is it correct that the carburetors are pot-metal 

and problematic?

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