Results of RM Roadmaster Collection sale

[MrEarl]

Thoughts on prices?

 

https://rmsothebys.com/en/home/lots/af20#?SortBy=Default&SearchTerm=&Category=All Categories&IncludeWithdrawnLots=false&Auction=AF20&OfferStatus=All availability&AuctionYear=&Model=Model&Make=Make&FeaturedOnly=false&StillForSaleOnly=false&Collection=The Roadmaster Collection&WithoutReserveOnly=false&Day=All Days&CategoryTag=All Categories&TimedOnly=false&OneHubLinkOnly=false&page=1&pageSize=40

Edited September 8, 2020 by MrEarl (see edit history)

[Matt Harwood]

Wow, prices pretty reasonable overall. I was eyeballing that '56 Roadmaster convertible in pink--saw that at the Mecum auction in July and Melanie decided she only wants to collect pink cars.

[MrEarl]

4 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

Wow, prices pretty reasonable overall. I was eyeballing that '56 Roadmaster convertible in pink--saw that at the Mecum auction in July and Melanie decided she only wants to collect pink cars.

 Fair for buyer and seller IMO, I was expecting much lower.  So I take it Melanie considers Coral a shade of pink then? 🙂

[auburnseeker]

The 1920 seems pretty cheap.  The 31 seemed like a good buy,  though I don't know a thing about the market.  How were they mechanically? 

[NC-car-guy]

Just now, MrEarl said:

 So I take it Melanie considers Coral a shade of pink then? 🙂

I thought everyone did?  Nothing wrong with pink.

[NC-car-guy]

12 minutes ago, MrEarl said:

Thoughts on prices?

 

https://rmsothebys.com/en/home/lots/af20#?SortBy=Default&SearchTerm=&Category=All Categories&IncludeWithdrawnLots=false&Auction=AF20&OfferStatus=All availability&AuctionYear=&Model=Model&Make=Make&FeaturedOnly=false&StillForSaleOnly=false&Collection=The Roadmaster Collection&WithoutReserveOnly=false&Day=All Days&CategoryTag=All Categories&TimedOnly=false&OneHubLinkOnly=false&page=1&pageSize=40

Was this all one person's collection?

[MrEarl]

1 minute ago, NC-car-guy said:

I thought everyone did?  Nothing wrong with pink.

 Wasn't implying there was. Coral was my favorite color for '56

[edinmass]

MrEarl......thoughts on prices? 
 

I will speak generally.........I don’t know or follow the Buick market. 
 

With the pandemic auctions, no car shows or concours to go along with the sale, and no club functions occurring, without mentioning the crash and recover that has happened over the last six months..........I would say that overall the public online sales are doing fairly well. Junk and project cars suffered heavily. Looks like many of the Buick’s were dusty under the hood.......possibility sitting for a while? Some of the square teen’s and early 20’s stuff was very inexpensive if the engines are good to go.........I think the biggest accomplishment is the hobby is still moving forward with all the shutdowns and restrictions. I think any car sale this year would be considered a buyers market across the boards regardless of all the outside factors. The hobby is fine, markets are fair to soft........but I haven’t seen nice high point cars having fire sales. 

Edited September 8, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[JohnD1956]

If one is just a temporary owner,  might as well modify whatever one has because the modified's bring better prices.  If a car is to be kept original,  and you want a high price on resale, looks like the best bet is a factory hot rod of sorts.  

 

 

[auburnseeker]

Modifieds may appear to bring a better price but often they have to be done over the top with a long laundry list of really high end parts.  Usually those cars that appear to sell for more , have twice as much invested in them and in ten years everything on them will be outdated that was then cutting edge so like a new car they will have a depreciation curve.  I'll also guarantee many of the less than super high end will have running and or driving issues that will be hard to fix as you are no longer fixing a 1930 whatever.  you are fixing a 1930-2020 Fo-Chev-Dod (thrown in with alot of aftermarket parts from possibly extinct companies) with engineering issues only the builder and a small select group of guys will understand much less know how to correct. 

[lancemb]

Doesn't look like anyone "stole" anything.  That many Buicks in one collection must have attracted some real enthusiasts with deep pockets.

[NTX5467]

I suspect the Modified market is more driven by people who want modern mechanisms in an older car they like the styling of.  With the orientation that "modern iron" is more reliable than the older stuff.  Possibly driven by the popularity of OEM-style crate engines/transmissions.  Something the younger buyers can associate with and know how to work on themselves.  I also suspect that most are done in higher-end shops that can also do full restorations, so it all comes out looking OEM-correct and such.  Shops which probably charge over $100.00/hour for what they do.  THEN, "do the math" to see how much of a bargain that modified car might be at auction, for the buyer.  Compared to chasing the particular car on the used car market, then getting it done to that level of execution rather than buying it "already done".

 

With ANY vehicle that is altered from OEM specs/configuration, the supplier of the non-OEM parts will always be an issue as time progresses.  At this point in time, though, the particular vendors who supply many of the parts/sysstems needed have been around close to 30 years, so they'll probably be around another 30 years or so.  Not to say that their current items might be upgraded in future years, or that current parts might be discontinued.  But that's no different than any other OEM-level supplier, or even the manufacturers when the cars were new.  Just have to go to the speed shop to get parts rather than the local auto supply stores.  Be that as it may!

 

Like any fully-restored vehicle, when it might need some work, they'll probably need to go back to the shop that did the initial work, rather than any local garage, I suspect. 

 

In many respects, the "modified" game is no different than the "restoration" game.  Same issues, just different teams of players involved. 

 

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

Edited September 13, 2020 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Buick built countless cars from a very early start in the industry........and, they were always a reliable and well built car. Modifying a Buick to make it more reliable is in fact, a action that makes no sense. They were reliable when new.........even in the early teens. It’s just today people are too brainwashed into thinking that a 100 year old car isn’t reliable...........and the same thing goes for the newer models. Modify it if you like........change it so it appeals to you..........but there is no advantage to the modifications and making it more reliable.......most people’s skill set make it less reliable when they are done with it. Just a plain fact.

[JohnD1956]

I am pretty sure the use of the term "reliable " in the context of this subject is equal to the term "convenient".  I believe there are enthuisasts who like to belong to the hobby but will prefer to have repairs etc done by others and as such feel it will be difficult to get parts and people who can repair older stuff.  And to some extent they are not wrong about that. 

[NTX5467]

The issue of finding someone who already KNOWS what they are looking at when they look at an older vehicle needing repairs/maintenance gets more real as time progresses, generally.  Not that anybody can't learn, but who wants to pay lots of money for somebody's "schooling" on both parts and how to install them?

 

Many "modern" techs can tend to rely upon YouTube DIY videos and such to determine how to work on things.  Just as some dealership techs will call "Tech Assistance" for how to fix things and what parts to order to do it (usually a laundry list of parts of which few are really used, by observation).  And even THEY seem to be working from a database rather than actual knowledge or dynamics thereof, sometimes!  An example:  My 2005 Impala 3.4L got a ticking noise in the engine, not consistent.  Ended up replacing a cracked flywheel.  Did it again a few months later.  Call to TA had its usual list of things to check/look for.  Ended up putting in a GM Reman torque converter, with a new flywheel under parts warranty.  Claimed the torque converter possibly "bulged" causing mis-alignment which put too much "flex" into the flexplate.  Again, under parts warranty.  A few months later, noise reappears.  THIS time, as heads were scratched, the Service Manager noticed some shiney areas on the torque converter bolt shanks.  The same bolts, all along.  Yet for all appearances, the bolts torqued-down normally, so no concerned about them.  Apparently, the bolts had stretched a bit and were bottoming out in their threads.  New bolts, along with a GM Reman transaxle, fixed it.  The trans was replaced for a different reason, but my new, low-mileage torque converter went with the core.

 

One thing on the laundry list of things to look for was to look for loose block dowel pins, which would mean a new block.  When I heard that, I laughed.  A "new block" on a car with a trade-in value of about $1000.00?  Then I thought, if that's the case, we're going to use a used car lot "fix" instead, which would mean JBWeld on the pins and red Loctite on the bolts.  As it turned out, though, the dowel pins were tight.  Evidence, to me, of the use or "databases" rather than some consideration of the vehicle being attempted to repair!

 

By observation, what people did in the '70s to make street rods look cool, in spite of how it might affect their performance, has evolved from "the shadetree" to the fancy air-conditioned shop.  Staffed with people that are near the top of their game, usually.  Plus enough equipment to make a cable car shop look "normal".  To be sure, the expanded availability of such equipment AND motivated fabricators to use it well, for great outcomes, has expanded greatly over the past 15 years or so.  Wave the "magic plastic" or authorize bank drafts and things happen nicely.  ALL of which should be documented on the repair orders!  Of course, as the level of execution MUST increase every so often, better Buicks (and other cars) emerge from those shops.

 

As more OEM technology is available for adaptation, usually via the street rod area of things, almost all recent amenities for newer vehicles can be adapted to any older vehicle, including electric power steering.  Maybe not universal availability just yet, but very possibly MORE in the future.  One benefit of these things is that motivated younger techs, who become well-versed in how these things work on newer vehicles, can then branch out to work on older vehicles to which these things have been adapted, knowing pretty much what they're looking at and how it works.  Not that some of these same people might not know about carburetors and ignition points already, but comparing those systems to their later electronic counterparts CAN result in their further expansion of skill sets/horizons into older stock-type vehicles.  BUT THEN, they'll have to learn where to get "the good parts" to do these repairs, rather than "something online", possibly from a sub-standard supplier.

 

Respectfully, there were some things which were done in the '70s and prior, which even the least-talented modern "builder" knows better than to do.  Much of which was "try and see how it works" rather than "plug and play".  If it didn't work well, it still looked neat.  Driving slower, as necessary, made for a better "proflie" as driving slower allows more time for by-standers to look at the neat old vehicle, even if it's on a trailer "going somewhere".

 

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

[alsancle]

I’m not getting your point.

[Marty Roth]

On 9/8/2020 at 2:39 PM, MrEarl said:

 Wasn't implying there was. Coral was my favorite color for '56

Mine too !

and also red & white !

Edited September 16, 2020 by Marty Roth (see edit history)

[Larry Schramm]

On 9/13/2020 at 7:31 PM, NTX5467 said:

 

My 2005 Impala 3.4L got a ticking noise in the engine, not consistent.  Ended up replacing a cracked flywheel.  Did it again a few months later.  Call to TA had its usual list of things to check/look for.  Ended up putting in a GM Reman torque converter, with a new flywheel under parts warranty.  Claimed the torque converter possibly "bulged" causing mis-alignment which put too much "flex" into the flexplate.  Again, under parts warranty.  A few months later, noise reappears.  THIS time, as heads were scratched, the Service Manager noticed some shiney areas on the torque converter bolt shanks.  The same bolts, all along.  Yet for all appearances, the bolts torqued-down normally, so no concerned about them.  Apparently, the bolts had stretched a bit and were bottoming out in their threads.  New bolts, along with a GM Reman transaxle, fixed it.  The trans was replaced for a different reason, but my new, low-mileage torque converter went with the core.

 

Just some thoughts,

NTX5467

 

"Apparently, the bolts had stretched a bit and were bottoming out in their threads."  BS

 

Someone put the wrong bolts in the flex plate to converter.  Many times, the heads on the flex plate to converter are shorter than a regular bolts. 

 

If not that, then it could be possible for the crankshaft thrust bearings to be worn.  Did anyone check the for & aft movement of the crankshaft?  That would explain the intermittent noise of the bolt heads hitting the back of the block. 

 

Edited October 11, 2020 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)