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Engineering vs Esthetics in a first purchase of a CCCA Classic


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4 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

One of their beige colors is fine (see below), but several others not so much - and always helps when done to or near 100 point.   Personally, I am a fan of Silver/Black/Red.

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Yes, that beige is the correct original color on my '35.  (Although barring some unforeseen event in which I win the lottery and have gobs of money to spare, I'd never do it to or near 100 points; my goal would be for it to look fine, not stunning.) 

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The easiest way to make your 35 Packard V-12 roadster look stunning is to buy a Pierce Arrow.......just saying. Ask the wife if you can get another car.........let me know. Ed

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1 hour ago, edinmass said:

The easiest way to make your 35 Packard V-12 roadster look stunning is to buy a Pierce Arrow.......just saying. Ask the wife if you can get another car.........let me know. Ed

 

Believe me, Ed, that's a project I'm working on!  :)

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On 9/29/2020 at 11:16 AM, John_Mereness said:

John Bloom was speaking of his Grand Dog moving in and how that takes up time in your life matched to kids and ....  That said, Buddy takes up probably two full hours a day, so does cut into the time of a day.  And he is a Terrier of large scale "King of the Terriers" as often referred to, though he is just larger than most females and a little smaller than most males (they also come in Oorang  which is a Giant Airedale, but they are not necessarily AKC recognized) - my point being you get all the Terrier characteristics, but in an Airdale you get all those same characteristics bundled into  a much larger platform (including the "I do whatever I want because I am big" matched to "I may just not do what you want because I am big".  Buddy would not be AKC show-able either as he had his wagon fixed, but personality wise he was way out of hand prior.   Someone locally asked Ceasar why he did not spend any time on his program teaching Airedales and Terriers as a whole - he reply was that his show was only one hour.   One thing buddy has not yet learned is how to "lean in" on corners when in car - he has ended up on the floor a few times - working on this. 

Yeah, here’s trouble...

At 6 weeks waiting to come home with 4 to go.

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8 hours ago, Jeff Perkins / Mn said:

John,   Any progress on your search/research regarding this topic?

Jeff, thanks for your interest.  I am continuing to search and there are about 5 cars I'm seriously looking at.  None are close by.  One is drivable to see from my house (7 hours away).  The others would require me to fly, and between work and going to see my father, I've not had any free time.  I have conversations going with 3 owners about their cars.  4 of the 5 cars are pre 1935.  The oldest is 1926.  In spite of my thread here focusing on my desire for the looks of an earlier car, one of the 5 cars is a later Packard.  

 

I hope to do some more homework this weekend, I am working a half day today, then want to settle in with some college football in the background while doing more research.  I also have a cautious vibe concerning spending money on a toy I don't need in the next few day because of the election.  I'm not going to do anything until seeing the aftermath of next Tuesday.  Hopefully there is resolution after the election and we aren't drug into chaos and a dumpster fire of unrest.  I will sit tight till that passes if things don't go well.  I'm not saying that to take this thread in a political direction, I just mean that buying a fun classic car isn't a necessity and it can wait a bit if things get ugly.  

 

As I look and think about what each car I'm considering brings to the table.  I am already starting to go through the mental gymnastics of thoughts like "If I buy that early club sedan, I'll make my next purchase be a later convertible"..........when it comes to this hobby, I am still a kid looking at the counter at the candy store and overwhelmed by the choices available, and want more than I can afford or have storage space to hold.

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Do NOT attempt to try and drive any car you purchase home. The odds of you getting home are nearly zero. If your not prepared for that fact.......don’t buy an old car. All cars come with a learning curve...........and it takes time to understand  them and determine what they need for work. All old cars need work.

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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16 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Do NOT attempt to try and drive any car you purchase home. The odds of you getting home are nearly zero. If your not prepared for that fact.......don’t buy an old car. All cars come with a learning curve...........and it takes time to understand  them and determine what they need for work. All old cars need work.


AMEN!! Nothing like an “unplanned “ tow to spoil one’s day.....

Edited by Jeff Perkins / Mn (see edit history)
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14 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Do NOT attempt to try and drive any car you purchase home. The odds of you getting home are nearly zero. If your not prepared for that fact.......don’t buy an old car. All cars come with a learning curve...........and it takes time to understand  them and determine what they need for work. All old cars need work.

Absolutely.  This isn’t my first rodeo I’ve probably bought 12 to 15 older cars through the years. I have an enclosed trailer and two of these cars I would go get myself. The other one I’m looking at, I would fly out to see it and drive it locally, I would arrange to have it professionally shipped back.  I will be taking things very cautiously and under no circumstances would I attempt to drive the car more than 5 miles until I have sorted through it and figure it out more intimately what I have gotten myself into.

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2 hours ago, John Bloom said:

On the other hand, it might make for a good basis for a comedy movie for me to go grab one of these 2000 miles away and with nothing other than a smile attempt to get it back home to Chicago!

 

I think it would be more of a horror film than a comedy.

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2 hours ago, John Bloom said:

Absolutely.  This isn’t my first rodeo I’ve probably bought 12 to 15 older cars through the years. I have an enclosed trailer and two of these cars I would go get myself. The other one I’m looking at, I would fly out to see it and drive it locally, I would arrange to have it professionally shipped back.  I will be taking things very cautiously and under no circumstances would I attempt to drive the car more than 5 miles until I have sorted through it and figure it out more intimately what I have gotten myself into.

If you use a professional to transport your car I would recommend Bill's Auto Works (who is a member of this forum). He is reasonably priced and extremely easy to work with.  His communication was excellent and his trailer was a work of art. 

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I have done the fly and drive a few times over the years.

Nothing more fun than a road trip.

The journey is usually more fun than the destination.

 

If I cant get some action from the chosen shipper soon I may be headed that way again.

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"nothing other than a smile attempt to get it back home to Chicago! " Roadkill might be interested in making it a show. However with a decent tow rig and AAA premier it should be easy. Would strongly suggest a co-driver, some things just take two people.

 

Last time I bought a car 1,000 miles away, I flew up and drove it home. Well 40 miles to the Amtrak AutoTrain and 40 miles home.

 

 

arrive.jpg

Edited by padgett (see edit history)
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One of my (for lack of a better phrase?) bucket list things has always been to buy a pre-1930 car two to three thousand miles from home and fly out to drive it back! I would have expected enough problems, no silly illusions there. However, all that would have been part of the adventure.

A bit over fifteen years ago, my eldest son bought a 1984 AMC Eagle station wagon that was located in Florida. At the time, we lived near one of the Western most points in the 48 states. We were one mile from the Western most bar (drinking establishment) in the 48 states. Rob wanted someone to ride along and help with any issues, so who better than dad that has a reputation of fixing anything and/or limping in on the unfixable. It was a memorable father son road trip. And Rob does like road trips!

It wasn't long after 9/11, so we couldn't take any tools on the flight, so bought a fifty dollar cheap tools kit before starting out. We started off just North of Miami near sunset, and got less than two hundred miles before the water pump started leaking. Pulled in to an auto parts store minutes before closing and bought a water pump. Middle of winter, dark and cold, we also got a couple gallon jugs of drinking water at a convenience store (for the car to drink), and elected to keep going. Rob had lived in Florida for about a year a couple years earlier, and wanted to show me some places along the way. Some beautiful areas in the Northern part of the state. We went through New Orleans about a year before Katrina messed it up badly. We spent a day there, doing the quick tour seeing the old French Quarter, the Mississippi River and riverboats. Ate lunch on the wharf (?), walked through one of the historic cemeteries, and rode the street cars. Then headed North. In the Northwestern corner of Louisiana, we got some bad gasoline. Two o'clock in the morning, a hundred miles from proverbial NOWHERE, the carburetor jets begin to plug up. We limped a couple more miles before it became clear that we would not go much farther. So onto the side of the road we went. A highway in the middle of nowhere, not a car seen for an hour before, and wouldn't see one for a few hours yet. The temperature (we found out the next day's newscasts, was five degrees Fahrenheit! We emptied our suitcases, put almost everything we had with us on (including the coveralls we both had brought in case we needed to crawl under the car?). We took turns. About ten minutes one of us working on the car, and ten minutes the other shivering inside the car (out of the wind!) trying to warm up. We had a couple good flashlights (we were somewhat prepared), removed the carburetor and took it apart. The cheap tools kit included a small brass wire brush. Pulled a single hair sized wire out of the brush and the long nosed pliers we were able to clear out the blocked jets, assembled the carburetor and got back on the road. We drove past Dallas at sunrise!

All that was with what was then a less than twenty year old car that had never had any serious issues (so the seller said?). Imagine what a half century of unknowns on a real antique could throw at you?

Edited by wayne sheldon
I hate leaving typos! (see edit history)
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33 minutes ago, wayne sheldon said:

One of my (for lack of a better phrase?) bucket list things has always been to buy a pre-1930 car two to three thousand miles from home and fly out to drive it back! I would have expected enough problems, no silly illusions there. However, all that would have been part of the adventure.

A bit over fifteen years ago, my eldest son bought a 1984 AMC Eagle station wagon that was located in Florida. At the time, we lived near one of the Western most points in the 48 states. We were one mile from the Western most bar (drinking establishment) in the 48 states. Rob wanted someone to ride along and help with any issues, so who better than dad that has a reputation of fixing anything and/or limping in on the unfixable. It was a memorable father son road trip. And Rob does like road trips!

It wasn't long after 9/11, so we couldn't take any tools on the flight, so bought a fifty dollar cheap tools kit before starting out. We started off just North of Miami near sunset, and got less than two hundred miles before the water pump started leaking. Pulled in to an auto parts store minutes before closing and bought a water pump. Middle of winter, dark and cold, we also got a couple gallon jugs of drinking water at a convenience store (for the car to drink), and elected to keep going. Rob had lived in Florida for about a year a couple years earlier, and wanted to show me some places along the way. Some beautiful areas in the Northern part of the state. We went through New Orleans about a year before Katrina messed it up badly. We spent a day there, doing the quick tour seeing the old French Quarter, the Mississippi River and riverboats. Ate lunch on the wharf (?), walked through one of the historic cemeteries, and rode the street cars. Then headed North. In the Northwestern corner of Louisiana, we got some bad gasoline. Two o'clock in the morning, a hundred miles from proverbial NOWHERE, the carburetor jets begin to plug up. We limped a couple more miles before it became clear that we would go much farther. So onto the side of the road we went. A highway in the middle of nowhere, not a car seen for an hour before, and wouldn't see one for a few hours yet. The temperature (we found out the next day's newscasts, was five degrees Fahrenheit! We emptied our suitcases, put almost everything we had with us on (including the coveralls we both had brought in case we needed to crawl under the car?). We took turns. About ten minutes one of us working on the car, and ten minutes the other shivering inside the car (out of the wind!) trying to warm up. We had a couple good flashlights (we were somewhat prepared), removed the carburetor and took it apart. The cheap tools kit included a small brass wire brush. Pulled a single hair sized wire out of the brush and the long nosed pliers we were able to clear out the block jets, assembled the carburetor and get back on the road. We drove past Dallas at sunrise!

All that was with what was then a less than twenty year old car that had never had any serious issues (so the seller said?). Imagine what a half century of unknowns on a real antique could throw at you?

Ok guys, years from now, I will say "it is Wayne's fault".......but I'm feeling a date in the future where we do the AACA version of "survivior/reality tv".  A firm calendar day is set in the future as the shotgun start date.  leading up to that date, you find a prewar car to buy that is at least 1000 miles from your home.  We get as many players as possible, and you get to have a partner/teammate for the trek.  No one can fly out before 6am that day.  But anything after 6am is Go time.  The car must be 1000 miles from home.  fly, get the car, and drive it home.  Document/stream the adventure.  First one home is the winner.  The traffic on that day/days might cause the AACA server to crash.  I have dibs on Ed as my partner in the competition........

 

John

 

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16 hours ago, John Bloom said:

Ok guys, years from now, I will say "it is Wayne's fault".......but I'm feeling a date in the future where we do the AACA version of "survivior/reality tv".  A firm calendar day is set in the future as the shotgun start date.  leading up to that date, you find a prewar car to buy that is at least 1000 miles from your home.  We get as many players as possible, and you get to have a partner/teammate for the trek.  No one can fly out before 6am that day.  But anything after 6am is Go time.  The car must be 1000 miles from home.  fly, get the car, and drive it home.  Document/stream the adventure.  First one home is the winner.  The traffic on that day/days might cause the AACA server to crash.  I have dibs on Ed as my partner in the competition........

 

John

 

 

Sure, Get all you brothers and sisters across the nation that don't do the drive to basically be on call for a week or so.

I wont go along with the first one home idea as the distances will vary.

This car I just bought is about 3000 miles from me and I am trying to be patient with the recommended shipper.

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John.......a few thoughts.......lots of people end up with too many cars, not enough resources to keep them all in running condition, and many cars they have are similar........thus, I try and teach newcomers to the hobby to think about how they will use the car......where they will use the car, and how they will get it there. Example a 1932 Pierce can be used on the HCCA nickel tour, also a CCCA tour,  and a bunch of other tours ......but if you buy a X brand 1938...you are out of luck for a bunch of stuff. So figuring out how you will use a car and if you are trailering all are important questions. "Self control" when it comes to collecting cars is important...........having two great cars is better than seven common cars......... so it's best to think long  term. Less is often more when it comes to cars. ONLY buy turnkey cars that can drive 500 miles today.........otherwise unknown's, and restoration time and money can mean a car that you won't drive for months or years. Pay more now to save tens of thousands later. 

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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9 minutes ago, edinmass said:

"Self control" when it comes to collecting cars is important...........having two great cars is better than seven common cars......... so it's best to think long  term. Less is often more when it comes to cars.

Good words of wisdom......and I know that to be true in my life as well as seeing it play out in the lives of my buddies.  It is good to be reminded of it periodically, saves grief and frustration.  

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1 hour ago, 1935Packard said:

John, if you're interested in original cars, this 1934 Packard 1100 comes out of a well-known Packard collection on the east coast (Dave English's collection).    

https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/cars-for-sale/packard/1100/2443919.html

I will take a look at that.  thanks.

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  • 5 months later...
On 9/7/2020 at 7:15 PM, John Bloom said:

Note.  Moderators feel free to move this to the CCCA forum if that is more appropriate.

 

I'm 55 and have been a classic car lover since about age 12.  First car was a 66 Riviera I bought for 400 dollars with my lawn mowing funds.  I have had several Foreign Examples (Multiple MG's, Multiple Alfas, Porsche) as well as lots of Domestic stuff.  In the last 5 years, my interests have been gravitating to the bigger iron of the American Classic Era.  Lots of looking at Packards, Pierce Arrows, Cadillacs, Lincoln, Franklin, Stutz, Marmon, etc...  For the purposes of touring, I am gravitating towards a 36-41 Packard (8, super 8, 160,180) or a series 62, 60S, 75 Cadillac.  Here is my issue.  I love the look of the earlier cars more than the late thirties.  So much stuff from 28-34 that just knocks my socks off based purely on looks.  I know a lot of engineering happened in all these Makes from 1928 to 1938 and I can appreciate what that will do from the standpoint of a touring experience.  I don't dislike the late thirties looks, but I just prefer the cars that are a little earlier.  Soooooo, with that issue of "engineering vs esthetics", what are the thoughts from some of you regarding a suggestion for a closed car, in that earlier era I prefer, to do touring (occasionally sustained speeds of 55 MPH), reasonable braking, mechanical stability) for under 50K?

 

Again, move this to the CCCA forum if that is more appropriate.

 

John

 

 

On 9/7/2020 at 7:15 PM, John Bloom said:

 

 

 

 

 

Well..........

I posted this about 7 months ago.  It has been a desire of mine for years to have an experience with a Classic.  Kids, jobs, commitments.....just the busy nature of life, all had me thinking and looking.... and not pulling the trigger.  I had and still have so much to learn about this era.    The point of the thread I started was to get information about the changes through the years related to looks and engineering.  I tried to articulate and explain that I like the looks of all the cars of that era, but that my eye does prefer that earlier look of the late 20's/early 30's, and that for cost reasons I wanted my first experience to be a closed car.   In going with those years, I realize that they won't drive like a later 30's Classic (which I do appreciate and love the looks of many).  I have had a blast looking, learning, reading, about so many options.  In the end, I think the solution is that you need two to be the best of both worlds......something earlier for the look I prefer, and something later for mechanical, touring, maintenance attributes.  I don't see me doing a lot of Touring (multiple days in a row out of town distant from home) until I retire.  Time away from work is precious and I have a big family that most of that time needs to be dedicated to until I've stopped working.  So a later 30's touring car will hopefully be in my future and I have lots of ideas about what might be my favorite target when that time comes.  

 

I got so much help and advice, through the thread and conversations offline.  This is a great community.  Ed contacted me within minutes of my first post and I have really enjoyed getting to know him, Guys on here with so much more knowledge and expertise in this area commented on the thread and shared their thoughts.  That got me to know their names and follow their comments in other threads (Ed, Matt, West, AJ, Walt, John M, Steve, .........so many others....it is dangerous to name names because I'll leave people out and I'm grateful for all the input).  lots of suggestions about cars that weren't even on my radar but I loved learning about them.  

 

I bought a 733 Club Sedan, I was in conversation with the seller six months ago, and we stayed in touch about once a month and he reached out to me about a month ago and said "make me an offer", he is retiring out west, to be near his son and wants to tidy up his life before leaving the east coast and selling his home.  Although I had pictures from the initial contact (and had spent hours studying them), I hadn't seen the car.  I flew out about a 3 weeks ago and spent the day with him and the car and bought it.  The car arrived Monday.  It is dirty and I hope to spend the weekend doing lots of cleaning and getting my initial plan together for moving forward with the car.  I have a couple of close friends (with lots of experience in this type of car and systems) who have been involved in my decision to pull the trigger and they will be a great resource as I tackle different problems (Thanks in advance Tom W).

 

I hope to start a new thread in the projects area as I sort through things and continue to learn and get advice from many of you. 

 

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A few more pictures, thanks for the nice feedback.  I had time on monday to pull the car off the trailer into the garage and then went right into a very busy four days.  TGIF......putting on the coffee pot, some motivating music and going to start cleaning.  

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Looks very nice. I haven’t driven a 733. It sure looks like you purchased a very presentable and drivable car. Take you time. Don’t be in a hurry. Fluids, lubrication, safety inspection, ect. Start with very short trips, and work your way up to sorting it to its optimal performance. Try and get a written history from the past owner ASAP.........photos, paperwork, Ext. History gets lost and forgotten quickly. Looking forward to more pictures and your learning curve on your first early 30’s Classic. When we meet in person, I’ll show you the secret handshake now that you have a car that qualifies as “heavy iron”. 👍

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Ed, I am very excited to have the car.  I intend to spend the weekend cleaning and familiarizing myself more with it, as I formulate my initial pathway forward, your advice and the path you laid out is exactly what I want to do. (Fuel system, cooling system, lubrication....front to back, etc......)  It is easy to get distracted by cosmetics....there will be time for that later, and quite frankly, I need to get some advice from a couple of friends about my strategy regarding paint.  Initially I was thinking spot painting of some panels and keep as much of the original as possible......after an evening cleaning, I have some doubts.  I'll get some advice from a couple of friends who know more about that than me.   I intend to concentrate on the mechanicals.

 

I hope to get a thread in the projects section in the next couple of days and start fresh there rather than continue this thread forward now that I have bought the car.  

 

As for the secret "heavy iron" handshake, you might feel it is premature if you see the MG Midget parked next to the Packard...

 

I do look forward to meeting in person.......I owe you a cocktail, or meal, or both..............

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1 hour ago, edinmass said:

Looks very nice. I haven’t driven a 733. It sure looks like you purchased a very presentable and drivable car. Take you time. Don’t be in a hurry. Fluids, lubrication, safety inspection, ect. Start with very short trips, and work your way up to sorting it to its optimal performance. Try and get a written history from the past owner ASAP.........photos, paperwork, Ext. History gets lost and forgotten quickly. Looking forward to more pictures and your learning curve on your first early 30’s Classic. When we meet in person, I’ll show you the secret handshake now that you have a car that qualifies as “heavy iron”. 👍

Hey Ed...you didn't offer to show me the secret handshake....I'm going to need to know that!

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5 hours ago, 1935Packard said:

Well done!  And welcome to the Packard family. :)

 

 

Well........we ALL make mistakes........don't we? 🤔 No worries......still time for him to get a Pierce!😝

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On 9/8/2020 at 8:27 PM, 1937hd45 said:

If I could do things over I'd buy better cars, RUNNING cars, projects rarely get finished. Bob 

There is a lot of truth there. The older I get, the more I want to enjoy a good driver, and the less I want a project that is hard to imposible to get parts for. As for the classics you seek, buy one that is a complete runner driver. With that said, Meeting a guy about a 1957 CJ3B Jeep tomorrow. It needs to be rescued. It's real crummy, but you can buy nearly anything you want fot it including complete body kits. Just can't stand seeing it rot into the ground as I drive by it often. It was parked in a barn 50 years ago and the barn fell on it. Oh lawdy, what a disease. Here I go again. Dandy Dave.

 

Glad to see that you have found a good car. Dandy Dave! 

Edited by Dandy Dave (see edit history)
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John, I read this thread the first time around and just read through it again. Congrats on finding a great looking car. I have 'modern' antique cars and would also one day like to own an 'old' one. This thread is very insightful. I know next to nothing about Packards, but very much like that body style. Looks like the best of both worlds, stately and elegant, plenty of room but not battleship in length. 

 

I see you have plenty of old cars in your garage and know that youre not a nubie, but I will still offer my advice on top of everyone else here. Dont let the paint bother you. IF there is a really bad spot, then yea, touch it up. But get the mechanicals sorted and enjoy that car for what it is, as it is. Dont put it into paint jail.

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On 10/31/2020 at 8:55 AM, John Bloom said:

On the other hand, it might make for a good basis for a comedy movie for me to go grab one of these 2000 miles away and with nothing other than a smile attempt to get it back home to Chicago!

Back in 74 I went with a guy from Illinois to California to buy a 64 Lincoln that we drove back.The only problem we encountered was with the headlights.The switch would heat up and then no lights.Other than that it was a fun trip.

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