Autolite 1100 rebuild

[metalmoto]

Hi again,

 

Trying to get my 65 Ford Falcon Futura running again.

Garaged for 35 years, and Thanks to everyone, I've finally spark.

 

First off, trying to get her running on a tight budget. And like to keep it as original as possible.

 

OK, this is what I have, and figured out so far, with the help of the net.

 

Original carburetor on the car, at least I assume it is.

No ID tag,  Stamp near throttle shows a "0". I measured the venturi with a caliper, measures 1 inch exactly.

The car has a 170 ci engine. Seems like it's a carb from a 144 ci engine. But it was running fine, before it was parked, 35 years ago.

 

It's disassembled, and I got it pretty clean using Simple Green and a ultrasonic cleaner.

Only problem is the throttle shaft is seized. I tried soaking it for a few days in PB blaster, but it barely moves.

 

Secondly, I found an identical carburetor in the trunk. The throttle shaft moves freely, but has some side to side slop.

This carb is a little beat up on the upper half. And don't think it's going to be any good.

Although the bottom part is fine, and in better condition.

 

However, stamp near throttle linkage is stamped 2, 2. One number is faint, so it looks like it was stamped twice, to identify it. 

Indeed, the venturi measures 1.2 inches, So it must be for a 200 ci engine. 

 

Not sure if using this larger venturi on my 170 ci engine will work?

 

As I was thinking of using the top half of the original carb, with the better bottom half, where the throttle shaft is not seized.

But since the venturi size is different, it probably will give me problems.

 

It appears, the venturi can be removed, and perhaps swapped with the smaller one. But it's seems risky, as the phenolic material is probably brittle, and I'm afraid to take the chance, of damaging it.

 

My only other option, at this point, is to disassemble the throttle shaft, and try to break it loose. 

This also seems risky. Don't want to break the delicate pot metal, it appears to be made out of.

 

This where I'm at right now.

 

Other than spending $$$ on another rebuilt carb, what do you think I should do?

 

The car structure is sound, still completely original, electrical all works, needs some bodywork.

Basically want to get it running first, before moving onto brakes etc.

Engine is very good, rebuilt about 1,000 miles before being parked.

Believe me, I checked it out good, or I wouldn't be this far into it.

 

I know the history of it,  it's been in my family since 1978. 

 

I would greatly appreciate any suggestions, on rebuilding the carburetor.

 

Thanks in advance!

 

Dave

 

 

 

 

[Bloo]

Don't mix the parts if they're different. Pick one and fix it. If you keep soaking that throttle shaft it will probably come loose.

Edited August 15, 2020 by Bloo (see edit history)

[metalmoto]

The carbs are identical, from what I have learned. Except perhaps the casting molds.

The venturi is made of a phenolic resin, that was inserted for the particular engine, it was made for.

 

I'd like to keep it original, but the throttle shaft wont budge. 

I'm going to attempt to remove the expansion pin, and see if if I can get it move.

Just was trying to avoid doing that. Maybe if real gentle, I wont damage the casing.

 

Perhaps a little heat from a propane torch will loosen it. I will try that first.

 

I haven't given up on it yet. 

 

My last resort will be buying a Chinese copy of the carb for $150. Just to get it running.

Then I can get the original rebuilt later. Kind of stuck at this point😫

 

I will keep you informed of my progress.

[padgett]

Larger venturi is no big. Probably has larger jets also to accommodate a smaller signal at a particular flow rate. John knows best but I used to swap around Rochester 2G and 2GCs a lot. With the right massaging can get up to 450 cfm out of a large one. (Rules said "one Rochester 2GC").

[ojh]

To free frozen throttle shafts I use heat to pull WD40 into the carb body & let that soak in, it probably won't free it at that point.  Then I use the heat again to melt wax into the body around the shafts and after that you start to see movement, it'll be gradual so don't force it.  

Its a time consuming process but it'll save a valuable carb.  Bees wax works best if you can find it, I just used a few birthday candles on a set of old carters.

[Fossil]

4 hours ago, metalmoto said:

Perhaps a little heat from a propane torch will loosen it. I will try that first.

A heat gun would be better. Things can get out of hand pretty quickly (too hot) with a torch. 

[Isaiah]

TAKE THE ONE OFF THE CAR AND  TAKE IT APART AS MUCH AS YOU CAN. THEN GET SOME  REAL LEMON JUICE  AND  GET A PAN TO PUT IT IN AND PUT WATER ENOUGH TO COVER IT AND ADD SOME LEMON JUICE  THEN TURN THE HEAT ON WHEN IT JUST HAS SOME LITTLE BUBBLES  ITS HOT ENOUGH LEAVE IT GO FOR SEVERAL HOURS . BEST DONE OUT SIDE. THEN YOU WILL BE TO TAKE THE REST OF THE CARB APART.

IF THE SCREWS  DON’T COME OUT EASY  COOK IT SOME MORE.

 I USE A OLD CROCK POT THAT HAS  SOME  HEAT CONTROL.

[John_Mereness]

Good news is that if a throttle shaft is stuck then it probably is also not worn out.  As if anyone locally in whatever car club may be able to help you rebuild it yourself (usually they just need all unstuck and new gaskets - not a complete rebuild). 

[metalmoto]

5 hours ago, John_Mereness said:

Good news is that if a throttle shaft is stuck then it probably is also not worn out.  As if anyone locally in whatever car club may be able to help you rebuild it yourself (usually they just need all unstuck and new gaskets - not a complete rebuild). 

 

John, I was thinking that also. 

The "spare" carb, with the larger venturi has some side to side movement in the throttle shaft. Is that bad?

 

I already have both carbs disassembled, and have a rebuild kit.

 

I'll keep soaking it, and hopefully it will start moving.

 

Thanks

[John_Mereness]

1 hour ago, metalmoto said:

 

John, I was thinking that also. 

The "spare" carb, with the larger venturi has some side to side movement in the throttle shaft. Is that bad?

 

I already have both carbs disassembled, and have a rebuild kit.

 

I'll keep soaking it, and hopefully it will start moving.

 

Thanks

IF PENETRATING OIL DOES NOT WORK, THEN TRY EVAPO-RUST

[metalmoto]

Hello All,

 

It's been a long time. Between Covid and everything else...

Soaked the carb for months, and it's still seized!

 

My next option is using the top half of a spare carb, and the bottom half of the original carb.

Maybe I'll get lucky, and it will run good.

 

I will get back, when I get it back together and installed.

 

Dave

[JACK M]

Then a few ice cubes and you will have lemonade.

I have had this same problem. I think you mentioned that it would move a little.

I suspect that if you keep at it with the proper lube you will have good luck.

[rocketraider]

You've been messing with this thing for nearly a year. Surely you don't have the only two 1100s in existence?

 

With hundreds of thousands of them made it's time to forget salvaging the carb that the car supposedly was born with and find a usable core to rebuild. Shouldn't be at all difficult to find a correctly coded number and application. Use vintage Ford and Autolite parts catalogs to your advantage.

[metalmoto]

It's not like I haven't been trying to find a good rebuild-able carb. People are asking way too much for one, in unseen/unknown condition.

Others want to rebuild mine for an outrageous amount of money. I'm no fool. 

Yes, I put off working on the car for a while. I had to buy another car for me to drive to work, and gave my car to my wife to drive.

I need to keep the daily drivers going, as they are more important than my Falcon, right now...

And it's not like anyone here, can help me out, and offer to sell me a old carb for a reasonable price...

 

  

[carbking]

8 hours ago, metalmoto said:

It's not like I haven't been trying to find a good rebuild-able carb. People are asking way too much for one, in unseen/unknown condition.

Others want to rebuild mine for an outrageous amount of money. I'm no fool. 

Yes, I put off working on the car for a while. I had to buy another car for me to drive to work, and gave my car to my wife to drive.

I need to keep the daily drivers going, as they are more important than my Falcon, right now...

And it's not like anyone here, can help me out, and offer to sell me a old carb for a reasonable price...

 

  

 

OK - first of all, I am sold out of the 144/170 carbs, so this is advice only, not an attempt to make a sale.

 

40 or so years ago, there was a push on demand for the 144/170 carbs to restore the small Rancheros. Add a zero to the price.

30 or so years ago, there was another push on demand for the 144/170 carbs to restore the Econoline vans. Add another zero to the price.

 

The 144/170 carbs are scarcer than those for a K series Mustang (289/271 HP), and priced accordingly. You might be able to swap a complete running 200 CID ENGINE for less than a 144/170 carb!

 

So not sure what your idea of reasonable would be; but take the above into account if someone offers you a genuine 144/170 carb.

 

Again, I am sold out, and have been for 20 years!

 

Jon.

[rocketraider]

Jon, I'd have never thought these carbs would have been so scarce now.

 

What are your thoughts on freeing up the OP's throttle shaft, since seems like this 1100 is no longer readily found?

[Bloo]

Has soaking it in Evaporust been tried?

 

Question for @carbking , does any reasonably good aftermarket, more or less properly fitting carb option exist for these engines?

[carbking]

Glenn - unless it was stored in the bottom of a pond for 50 years, heat normally works; soaking very seldom works.

 

A carburetor is a good example of a Galvanic cell (a.k.a. battery). Two dis-similar metals in the presence of a liquid. There is ion flow, creating corrosion between the shaft and the carb body. Heat to maybe 100 degrees less than the melting point of the body will burn the oxygen out of the corrosion molecules, thus reducing the space they occupy. Then penetrating oil will sometimes work.

 

Bloo - while the original Autolite's are scarcer than a 6-fingered poker dealer, Holley made service replacements almost as soon as the Autolites hit the street. My guess would be that any FLAPS could easily obtain a rebuilt Holley. And probably one could be ordered through a Ford dealer. And since the Holley would not have been original, there would be no premium in price.

 

Jon

[rocketraider]

Sounds like the OP could determine melting point of the carb casting and then stuff it in an oven for a while. Daresay a good-sized thrift store toaster oven could do the job?

 

This is why I love these Forums. Someone, somewhere, has often figured out a way!

[metalmoto]

Hello again,

 

It's been a while since I visted the forum.

I gave up on the orginal Autolite 1100 carb. And purchased a Chinese clone for $100 on eBay.

Since the car is in my garage, literally under the living room of my house. I decided to try running the car using a small one quart gas tank, using gravity feed. Only put a little fuel in the tank. The car started right up, but was running really fast. Not anticipating that, I ran to get inside the car to turn off the key. But it quicky used up the gas, before I could get inside, to shut it down. But "Yes" she runs again! First time in almost 40 years.

(Unfortunatly, my father passed away in July age 86. And he never got to see it running again). May he rest in peace...

 

Work on the car has been sporatic. As I was busy trying to keep my daily driver, an 01 Jeep Wranger running.

203000 miles on the orginal 4.0 straight 6. Bulletproof engine, made to last. I will never buy the disposable cars they make today!

 

Anyway, I have the idle screw on the 1100 carb turned down low. So, I guessing the mixture screw is not right, and causing the very fast idle?

I mean it was revving so fast, when it started running, I didn't even expect it, and need some help here. 

Which way to turn the mixture screw, to slow it down?

 

Winter came, and I spent that time, repairing a huge rusted area in the trunk, I was not aware of, nor did my father ever mention before.

Looks like he used sandpaper or something to patch the hole, just above the gas tank. Then he coverd it with thin aluminum.

I've since patched that area using galvanized sheet metal, as best as I could, for the meantime anyway...

Not a structural part, so, it's not a big deal. 

 

Weather is warming up now. And I'm anxous to get back to work on the car.

Brakes are the next thing on my list. As I can't move the car out of my garage, without using a winch.

Driveway is sloped downwards into the street. Once pushed out of my gargage, there is no way to stop it!

 

Just wanted to fill you in on what has been going on since I joined this forum.

 

Any help/advice is gladly appreciated.

 

Dave

 

 

[Bloo]

You don't slow it down with the mixture screw. Use the throttle stop screw. Does your new carburetor have an automatic choke? The choke might be too rich or the fast idle screw might be set too high.

 

If it runs way too fast, the throttle is probably too open. If there's an automatic choke, with the engine off, sometimes you can finagle the choke open (while holding the throttle open) and finagle the fast idle cam (if there is one) out of the way (with your fingers) so when you let the throttle close it is as closed as it ever gets, and the arm is resting on the base idle screw. Then unscrew it until the throttle is completely closed and the screw isn't touching anymore. then screw it in until it touches, and then just a little more, maybe half a turn.

 

Open the throttle and let the choke and fast idle snap back (if it's automatic). You may be on a fast idle screw now (for a cold engine). If so, and if it's too much, back it out a little after you start it again.

 

The mixture screw affects speed, but it's no way to set speed. It has a sweet spot, and you will be adjusting it slightly every time you tune the car up or reset the idle speed. It also needs to be set after the engine is warmed up.

 

EDIT: Also, if it has an automatic choke, it is normal to be on a faster idle, maybe too fast if you didn't kick the throttle after you started it. In a normal situation you kick the throttle once before you start it to set the choke. Then, after it starts, the choke pulls itself partly open, but you are still on high fast idle. The first time you kick the throttle after the engine is running, it will drop to a slower fast idle. Later on it will drop all the way down on the base idle (normal low idle) screw. It will only do that however after the engine is warm and the choke is fully open.

 

Edited March 4, 2023 by Bloo (see edit history)

[Littlestown Mike]

Good to see you back on here.  Bloo gave good advice.

[Rusty_OToole]

If the choke is off, and the idle speed screw backed off, you may have a vacuum leak somewhere. This will cause a fast idle especially if the carb is adjusted rich which they usually are out of the box.

[Robert G. Smits]

On 7/29/2021 at 2:41 PM, carbking said:

My guess would be that any FLAPS could easily obtain a rebuilt Holley.

I must be the only one who doesn't know the meaning of FLAPS .  Also what model of Holly carb?  Thanks

[carbking]

(F)rendly (L)ocal (A)uto (P)arts (S)tore

 

As to the Holley model, need to have the FLAPS check for one for the same engine CID and same type transmission (stick or automatic).

 

Jon

[Littlestown Mike]

On 3/6/2023 at 2:25 PM, Robert G. Smits said:

I must be the only one who doesn't know the meaning of FLAPS .  Also what model of Holly carb?  Thanks

  Me too---its a new term to me.

[metalmoto]

On 3/4/2023 at 4:36 AM, Bloo said:

You don't slow it down with the mixture screw. Use the throttle stop screw. Does your new carburetor have an automatic choke? The choke might be too rich or the fast idle screw might be set too high.

 

If it runs way too fast, the throttle is probably too open. If there's an automatic choke, with the engine off, sometimes you can finagle the choke open (while holding the throttle open) and finagle the fast idle cam (if there is one) out of the way (with your fingers) so when you let the throttle close it is as closed as it ever gets, and the arm is resting on the base idle screw. Then unscrew it until the throttle is completely closed and the screw isn't touching anymore. then screw it in until it touches, and then just a little more, maybe half a turn.

 

Open the throttle and let the choke and fast idle snap back (if it's automatic). You may be on a fast idle screw now (for a cold engine). If so, and if it's too much, back it out a little after you start it again.

 

The mixture screw affects speed, but it's no way to set speed. It has a sweet spot, and you will be adjusting it slightly every time you tune the car up or reset the idle speed. It also needs to be set after the engine is warmed up.

 

EDIT: Also, if it has an automatic choke, it is normal to be on a faster idle, maybe too fast if you didn't kick the throttle after you started it. In a normal situation you kick the throttle once before you start it to set the choke. Then, after it starts, the choke pulls itself partly open, but you are still on high fast idle. The first time you kick the throttle after the engine is running, it will drop to a slower fast idle. Later on it will drop all the way down on the base idle (normal low idle) screw. It will only do that however after the engine is warm and the choke is fully open.

 

Thanks for your reply. Yes, my car has an automatic choke. But hear is my situation. The orginal carb was seized, believe me I tryed EVERYTHING to free it up. After soaking it, heating it and boiling it, it would not budge. Found an old carb in the trunk, and tried rebuilding it using the upper half of one carb, and the bottom from the other. This never ran, and just dumped all the fuel into the engine. Also found the fuel pump was bad, dumping gas into the engine. So, since these carbs are hard to find today at a reasonable price. I bought a Chineese clone carb for it.

Bought a new fuel pump, but for safety reasons, the car is in my garage under my living room. I'm just using a quart fuel tank from a minibike, and gravity feeding the carb. Trashed the orginal fuel tank a while back, that 40 year old gas smelled up my house bad. A replacement tank is waiting to be installed. Also flushed out the metal fuel line. 

Using a remote starter switch from the 60's that is well-used that works intermittenly is not helping me either.

I'm right now making a new remote starter switch, and a kill switch, to kill the engine if needed, if it starts racing this time.

Perhaps I'll mark the idle screw and the other adjustments with different colors with small blob of paint, so I don't get confused, as to which screw to adjust. I still have my doubts about the cheap clone carb I'm using, but will try again tomorrow. Charging up the battery now.

 

 

 

[rocketraider]

On 3/4/2023 at 7:02 AM, Littlestown Mike said:

Good to see you back on here.  Bloo gave good advice.

Bloo ALWAYS gives good advice, as do many other folks here.

 

I'm admittedly leery of Chinese-sourced new production carburetors. The new one-size-fits-none QuadraJets are a case in point. Out of the box they barely work on any engine, not even something as ubiquitous as a small-block Chevy, which is the market they were produced for. Knowledgeable carburetor guys have spent weeks finessing them to where they'll "work". I suspect the 1100 clone may be the same way.

 

Did you check into the Holley substitute Carbking mentioned?