1964 Lincoln convertible— auction— Kalamazoo Michigan August 18, 2020

[Cadillac Fan]

Not mine.  
 

https://www.biddergy.com/Listing/Details/160651000/1964-Lincoln-Continental-Convertible-Only-56724-Miles

[trimacar]

It's a paraphrase, but the most expensive 60's Lincoln convertible you'll ever own will be the one you buy cheap....I really like these cars, but they can be money pits very, very quickly....

[Cadillac Fan]

Agree.  Buy the best you can.  But this starts at $1000.   Might be some parts for someone.  

[John_S_in_Penna]

5 hours ago, trimacar said:

It's a paraphrase, but the most expensive 60's Lincoln convertible you'll ever own will be the one you buy cheap....I really like these cars, but they can be money pits very, very quickly....

 

What goes wrong?  The various relays and other electrical

components for the top and automatic trunk opening?

[ericmac]

2 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

 

What goes wrong?  The various relays and other electrical

components for the top and automatic trunk opening?

I have owned 12 of these cars over the years.  What goes wrong? Everything...every single thing. 

[John_S_in_Penna]

6 hours ago, ericmac said:

I have owned 12 of these cars over the years.  What goes wrong? Everything...every single thing. 

 

Do you mean the convertible parts, mostly?

Or are the sedans unreliable too?

Both electrically and mechanically?

All the way from 1961 to 1969?

 

I always thought the Lincolns of the 1960's were

good looking cars.  Maybe it's good I never owned one!

 

Edited August 10, 2020 by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

[58L-Y8]

Structural rust damage is fatal to uni-bodies in general and these Lincoln specifically.  Because of the complexity and unique-to-Lincoln components, they are a real challenge to restore properly.  Electrical is a major item, particularly for the convertibles.    I had a '63 convertible, it seemed everything that needed repair was unusually difficult to work on, though parts were readily available from a few suppliers that specialized in 1960's Lincolns.   For those interested in this car, go inspect it in person before you bid.

[Aaron65]

I'm learning about these cars once removed with my '63 Thunderbird, and mine's only a hardtop!  They're really cool, but way more complicated than most old cars, and they're pretty frustrating to work on...I can't even imagine how much more complexity and frustration a Continental convertible would bring to the party.  Anyone see that episode of Jay Leno's Garage where he introduced a guy who travels around the country fixing the windows and tops on Continentals?  Any time there's a guy who can make a living doing that, you know you're in for trouble.  

 

But this isn't a hobby that makes sense to a lot of people...do as I say, right? 

[trimacar]

More electrical and wiring in one door than a fleet of Model A’s. Vacuum door locks.  Power windows.  Relays.  Switches, and if one is an eighth inch out of place you have problems.  Top rear panel cover that rusts if you breath on it. Electrical run THROUGH the top pads to the front latches, troubleshoot that! The list goes on and on....I was tickled to death with the bargain I got on a “mostly restored” 67 convertible,  even happier (but with a much lighter pocketbook) when new owner drove it away (in a drizzling rain with no top on it, by the way, had a top for it but not all the little pieces and parts you need to install it)...

[ericmac]

I looked the car over this evening.  It is both better and worse than I expected.  It looks like a running driving car.  The tires looked largely unused but cracked and probably 20 years old. The body was not terribly rusty with the exception of the hood, which is shot. The electrical system was a cobbled mess. The seats and door panels were decent but carpet would need to be replaced.  May the Force be with anyone who chose to perform a full restoration. 

[58L-Y8]

The 1961-1965 Lincolns suffered rusted hoods and trunk lids worse than almost any car I've seen.  And, its not just the usual along-the-lips, but develops in the pattern of the underside bracing.  The source of the problem was a dip primer paint process at the Wixom assembly plant where the hood and trunk lid were attached but ended up with trapped air bare metal after the primer bath.  The simple air exchange from heating and cooling introduces moisture resulting in the rust-ruined panels.  The problem seems to be less so for the 1966-1969 models.

[W_Higgins]

44 minutes ago, 58L-Y8 said:

The 1961-1965 Lincolns suffered rusted hoods and trunk lids worse than almost any car I've seen.  And, its not just the usual along-the-lips, but develops in the pattern of the underside bracing.  The source of the problem was a dip primer paint process at the Wixom assembly plant where the hood and trunk lid were attached but ended up with trapped air bare metal after the primer bath.  The simple air exchange from heating and cooling introduces moisture resulting in the rust-ruined panels.  The problem seems to be less so for the 1966-1969 models.

 

Another component to all of this is the blobs of sealer they injected between the two halves every so often to keep the outside skin from vibrating.  When you see the problem first starting to occur it is at those blobs, even on cars that have always been dry with the lids shut.  I don't know if the sealer sucks up moisture from the air and holds it against the metal or if the sealer itself has some mildly corrosive element to it or what, but it's a real problem for these cars.  As bad as this one shows underneath nothing is coming through on top yet. 

 

With the previous design in '58 - '60 it had the asphalt sound deadening sheet sandwiched between the two halves and they don't rust like that.  I did have one with the pattern of the substructure rusting through the skin on top but in that case rodents had packed the inside with stuffing from the seats and caused the corrosion.     

[58L-Y8]

Thanks for the explanation why the 1958-1960 models don't suffer the rusted hoods and trunk lids like the 1960's models do. 

[W_Higgins]

I'm not really sure that the innards of the earlier trunk lids are treated any better but perhaps that petroleum based sound deadening sheet is what helps to keep the bare metal from degrading so rapidly.  

[60FlatTop]

On 8/10/2020 at 12:18 AM, ericmac said:

I have owned 12 of these cars over the years.  What goes wrong? Everything...every single thing.

 

I have never owned one, but I have come close to the Continental Mark IV. When my wife and I were dating she coaxed me into letting her have a '66 T-Bird. From then on she told me to pick her cars.

 

I have been looking at the Lincoln 4 door converts for a few years. After servicing one in the 1990's I will agree with the "everything" comment. The owner of the car stiffed me for $250. He never came back and I never pursued it, always said it was the best $250 I ever spent.

 

Remember, a slightly shabby old Buick can be a decent car, but a shabby old Lincoln or Cadillac will usually be nothing more. And never get the idea I practice what I preach.

Bernie

[trimacar]

11 hours ago, W_Higgins said:

 

Another component to all of this is the blobs of sealer they injected between the two halves every so often to keep the outside skin from vibrating.  When you see the problem first starting to occur it is at those blobs, even on cars that have always been dry with the lids shut.  I don't know if the sealer sucks up moisture from the air and holds it against the metal or if the sealer itself has some mildly corrosive element to it or what, but it's a real problem for these cars.  As bad as this one shows underneath nothing is coming through on top yet. 

 

With the previous design in '58 - '60 it had the asphalt sound deadening sheet sandwiched between the two halves and they don't rust like that.  I did have one with the pattern of the substructure rusting through the skin on top but in that case rodents had packed the inside with stuffing from the seats and caused the corrosion.     

A similar sound deadening material was used in my 2001 Suburban.  When the side was wiped out by the UPS truck, I asked the body man what the rust colored foamy stuff was, he said sound deadening.  It was wet and full of rust from the body...

[ericmac]

3 hours ago, Ben P. said:

Wait a minute, did you own a white one with an added rear windscreen around Kalamazoo about 20 years ago?

It was a very pale yellow,  and yes, that was one of my cars.

Edited August 14, 2020 by ericmac
Correction (see edit history)

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Love these cars, have always wanted a 61 - 63 but the more I learn about them the scarier they are.  I think I will stick with the relative simplicity of the MB 560 SL!  

[ericmac]

On 8/14/2020 at 6:23 AM, Steve_Mack_CT said:

Love these cars, have always wanted a 61 - 63 but the more I learn about them the scarier they are.  I think I will stick with the relative simplicity of the MB 560 SL!  

I too love these cars  (which explains why I've owned so many of them) but I've come to the realization that they are so complicated to work on that maintaining one simply isn't very much fun. Its It's one thing to like working on a car but quite another to like fighting with a car. The latter is where I have repeatedly found myself. Yeah...stick with the MB.

[Steve_Mack_CT]

Wow!  Honest, raw feedback Eric.  I have had a couple others basically say the same thing.  I will say, while challenging, the MB generally responds well to attention, and is an overall satisfying car to work on.  But those Elwood Engel lines...

[W_Higgins]

An awful lot of people own them and love them.  I took care of one for a while.  They're like anything else in that if you have a good one and you get it all sorted out and keep up with things as they come along, you will get a lot of enjoyment out of it.  If you're someone that cannot do the diagnosis and not well-heeled enough to pay someone to maintain it for you, you will suffer constant frustration.  If you're given to falling into the victim ideology of, "I don't want to spend more on my car than it's worth" than you should bypass these and move on to a sedan or another make entirely.  You still won't win at that game with any other old car, but you'll probably get to your threshold more slowly.

 

  

[ericmac]

1 hour ago, W_Higgins said:

An awful lot of people own them and love them.  I took care of one for a while.  They're like anything else in that if you have a good one and you get it all sorted out and keep up with things as they come along, you will get a lot of enjoyment out of it.  If you're someone that cannot do the diagnosis and not well-heeled enough to pay someone to maintain it for you, you will suffer constant frustration.  If you're given to falling into the victim ideology of, "I don't want to spend more on my car than it's worth" than you should bypass these and move on to a sedan or another make entirely.  You still won't win at that game with any other old car, but you'll probably get to your threshold more slowly.

 

  

I have owned several good ones and one great one so I agree with you for the most part. On the other hand,  the key point I was making was fun working on them vs. fun fighting them. When the latter starts happening most of the time it's time to move to another car. And that's why I have a Cadillac now. I will confess,  I keep thinking about putting in a lowball bid on this car. 

Edited August 17, 2020 by ericmac
Clarification (see edit history)

[ericmac]

I can't believe it but this was bid to $10,200. I think the buyer over paid by at least 5k and will have 5x the sale price in the car before it is complete. To each their own.