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1930's Dual interior rearview mirror question were they for the driver or was one a Vanity mirror for the passenger ?


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So do you adjust your mirrors L & R to also take in the view out the rear side windows to also act as side view mirrors? 
Or just to the rear ? 

 

I’d like to believe one was convex and one was concave to give the driver two views aft. Unfortunately, I’ve been forced to accept that the mirror to the right is actually a vanity mirror for the lady passenger seated next to the driver!

 

 

image.thumb.png.4e3f4f75b0803cc06e9d19407012c416.png

 

 

 

 

image.png.d30b335ece78700f5c252477106f87d3.png

Edited by Mark Gregory (see edit history)
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When the mirrors are that narrow in width, in the days when right side outside mirrors were rarely used- especially if there are suicide front doors - one is for looking out the rear window, the other is for looking out the right side rear window to help see the right corner blind spot. 

 

Paul

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Mark, I have played around with them when I get a car with them - I generally get a mirror with another inch of glass length - and have fiddled with the brackets and mounting = I have not found a car yet that I cannot improve upon what was done originally.  

 

The RR PI Springfield was only car I never fiddled with the mirrors - it had original rear view mirror, stunning mirrors on each windshield post, and stunning sidemount mirrors - AND NONE OF THEM ALLOWED THE DRIVER TO SEE ANYTHING.

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)
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That kind/style of mirror was fitted by Derham Body Co. to the 1931 Franklin victoria brougham that they built for the custom body salons for 1930 that took place in Dec. 1929 and January 1930. As my long time friends Paul and John mention they were the only really efficient way to see out the back and right rear side of the car. - mostly, sort of. I got used to them in the 45,000+ miles I drove the Franklin brougham I owned . They most likely were bought by Derham via the Harry A. McFarland Company of NY City who supplied the interior hardware for most of the custom coach builders in the 1925-32 era. McFarland also supplied the bronze window cranks and door handles ( interior) that were used on many if not all of the Springfield  built R-R cars with Brewster coach work. I have period 8 x 10 photos issued by McFarland of the interior handles they offered for sale in sets for cars of that era.

Walt

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Well, since I had a conversation with a salesmen from Stutz, Willis St Clare, and Pierce  Arrow......... Specifically about this type of mirror, I shall tell you what he said after a twenty year career selling high end CCCA type cars. They are individual mirrors for each front seat occupant. While I used my two open cars that had them for the driver only, he came up to me at a Grand Classic and explained I was using them incorrectly. He also did a stint at Brunn and Waterhouse for a few weeks learning custom paint and upholstery. Thus, I respect the guy who was there when they were new. I still use mine for the driver only going down the road.

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Perhaps the 1930s dual interior rear view mirrors were the forerunner of and used similar to these contemporary multi panel mirrors. 

 

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/dI8AAOSwtRBejeS-/s-l640.jpg

 

I first saw the multi panel mirrors advertised for sale in the 1980s ... as I recall.  The first one I actually saw in use was in a New York City taxi cab.  Now they are fairly commonly seen in use on golf carts (popular in The Villages, Florida mega retirement community).

 

Cheers,

Grog

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1 hour ago, capngrog said:

Perhaps the 1930s dual interior rear view mirrors were the forerunner of and used similar to these contemporary multi panel mirrors. 

 

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/dI8AAOSwtRBejeS-/s-l640.jpg

 

I first saw the multi panel mirrors advertised for sale in the 1980s ... as I recall.  The first one I actually saw in use was in a New York City taxi cab.  Now they are fairly commonly seen in use on golf carts (popular in The Villages, Florida mega retirement community).

 

Cheers,

Grog


Four rear view mirrors......now if only someone could show them where the blinker lever and accelerator are we will have some progress!

 

 

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2 hours ago, capngrog said:

Perhaps the 1930s dual interior rear view mirrors were the forerunner of and used similar to these contemporary multi panel mirrors. 

 

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/dI8AAOSwtRBejeS-/s-l640.jpg

 

I first saw the multi panel mirrors advertised for sale in the 1980s ... as I recall.  The first one I actually saw in use was in a New York City taxi cab.  Now they are fairly commonly seen in use on golf carts (popular in The Villages, Florida mega retirement community).

 

Cheers,

Grog

Guys used them in race cars. I have one I got back in the 70's, I think it was from J.C. Whitney. I was going to install it in my AMX but not practical for a street/strip car.  No day/night mirror  ability and no sun visors and it's tough to see traffic light turn green if your too close to it.  I think it's still up in my barn with all my leftover  AMC parts stuff. 

 

Paul

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8 hours ago, edinmass said:

Well, since I had a conversation with a salesmen from Stutz, Willis St Clare, and Pierce  Arrow......... Specifically about this type of mirror, I shall tell you what he said after a twenty year career selling high end CCCA type cars. They are individual mirrors for each front seat occupant. While I used my two open cars that had them for the driver only, he came up to me at a Grand Classic and explained I was using them incorrectly. He also did a stint at Brunn and Waterhouse for a few weeks learning custom paint and upholstery. Thus, I respect the guy who was there when they were new. I still use mine for the driver only going down the road.

Have a dual mirror in my 31 Pierce Phaeton, looks factory....I thought it was for driver to see to the right.  Never heard Ed’s explanation, so learned something new today!

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On 8/9/2020 at 9:27 PM, trimacar said:

Have a dual mirror in my 31 Pierce Phaeton, looks factory....I thought it was for driver to see to the right.  Never heard Ed’s explanation, so learned something new today!

Regardless, the salesperson was right up there with the Trico vacuum wiper salesman and a few other nifty inventions that proved quite marginal at best. 

Edited by John_Mereness (see edit history)
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My 1930 Pierce-Arrow roadster has dual mirrors which I find confusing when I aim the right-hand one for better coverage of the right side of the car--top down only, useless when top is up.  Note that they are offset from one another and each is fairly small.

DSCN1756.JPG

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Both my Pierce and my Rickenbacker have the 2 piece mirrors.

Have always used them for the driver to see out the right side of the car since there is rarely a right hand outside mirror.

 

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On 8/9/2020 at 1:14 PM, edinmass said:

Well, since I had a conversation with a salesmen from Stutz, Willis St Clare, and Pierce  Arrow......... Specifically about this type of mirror, I shall tell you what he said after a twenty year career selling high end CCCA type cars. They are individual mirrors for each front seat occupant. While I used my two open cars that had them for the driver only, he came up to me at a Grand Classic and explained I was using them incorrectly. He also did a stint at Brunn and Waterhouse for a few weeks learning custom paint and upholstery. Thus, I respect the guy who was there when they were new. I still use mine for the driver only going down the road.

 

Glad to hear someone bring up the correct response, as this is exactly what it says in the accessory catalog as well.

"Double Vision Mirror: It offers commanding rear vision, through the rear window of the car, not only for the driver but the pasenger in the right front seat."

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Tried adjusting mine, works great for the passenger to see out the back.  Interesting I expected to see it in my salesman specification book but nothing about the "double vision mirror" as far as I know all Graham-Paige eights (827's & 837's) came with the "double vision mirrors"

 

image.png.d13fed7c73678038b1f439885595c103.png

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Perfect for the back seat driver.

 

ps in the 70's it was a Wink mirror. Have one somewhere. No traffic lights on a race track.

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33 minutes ago, West Peterson said:

mirror.JPG

 

This one from 1930 states it a little differently than what I posted above. The other was from 1932.

 


 

Proof in writing from the era! Fantastic. I can’t tell you how many people just don’t listen to what this are. Validation is great after twenty five years.

 

 

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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19 hours ago, edinmass said:


 

Proof in writing from the era! Fantastic. I can’t tell you how many people just don’t listen to what this are. Validation is great after twenty five years.

 

 

 

You take care of a 1932 Packard, and an extremely nice one I might add. You should get yourself a copy of the "Approved Accessories". It shows the same mirror, with the description I first wrote about above. The 1930 description is better, though, in my opinion.

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Thank you for posting the original advertising, nothing better than period advertising to bring the subject into focus.  It would be great to see the "Packard approved accessories" if you can post it?

 

  A couple of talking points...

 

This is such a simple idea I wonder if it was just copied?  My dual mirror was used in all Graham-Paige eights as far as I know. 

 

In the late 20's there still was a fair number of chauffeur driven cars, the "back seat driver" may have been the owner in the passenger seat?

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The proof is in the advertising, glad to know, but why the heck would passenger need to look behind?  See if the cops are following after robbing a bank?  See if cops are close enough to start shooting ala Bonnie and Clyde?  Warn driver of a tailgater, since the driver isn’t paying attention?  Very strange to me...

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On 8/9/2020 at 2:47 PM, capngrog said:

 

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/dI8AAOSwtRBejeS-/s-l640.jpg

 

 

I know my dissenting opinion is (again) in a very small minority here, but believe anyone needing this many mirrors, not mention all the modern digital/electronic driver assist gizmos to operate a motor vehicle should have their driving privilege, if not al together revoked, at least suspended until they prove ability to manage driving perfectly fine without them.


I actually wish it would be required from every person to be able to comfortably drive/operate an average pre-war or similar all analog car before receiving approval to be on public roads. 🤔🙄

Edited by TTR (see edit history)
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I had the Wink mirror in my VW Golf (5 panel), loved it, you can see out the drivers side window almost 180 degrees to the passenger side, no blind spots.  I did miss the visors from time to time, they would be great for racing car application a little overkill for the street, unless you drive on any of the interstates lately, some days I wish i had a roll bar and a 5 point harness, not to mention a helmet.  If the cars today still used spark advance, there would be half as many drivers on the road...

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3 hours ago, trimacar said:

The proof is in the advertising, glad to know, but why the heck would passenger need to look behind?  See if the cops are following after robbing a bank?  See if cops are close enough to start shooting ala Bonnie and Clyde?  Warn driver of a tailgater, since the driver isn’t paying attention?  Very strange to me...

 

Back "in the day", the front seat passenger was often the driver's wife or girlfriend, and I think that the second mirror was a forerunner of today's vanity mirrors found on the flip side of the passenger side sun visor.  The " ... enjoy rear vision too, ... " wording of West's "Double-Vision Mirror" promotional literature may have been a polite way of skirting the issue of feminine vanity.

 

Now as to the title of "Double-Vision Mirror", perhaps the mirror should be used if one is experiencing double vision, which would be a big help in traveling in reverse or being on the lookout for flashing red lights approaching from astern (behind).  Back in my youth (a looong time ago) I would occasionally acquire double vision if I spent too much time in the local pub.

 

Cheers,

Grog

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Yes, when one sees  two identical police cars behind them, there’s a problem....but it goes to show what one can Lear here, I’ve known my Pierce for 54 years, owned it for 34 years, and never knew the reason for the dual mirrors....

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