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The phone rang... and then the next car adventure starts


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The new bushings are installed into the lower spindle nut housing, and everything went fine. The total parts cost for rebuilding the front end was less than fifty dollars..........hows that for off the shelf parts on a pre WWI car? The most difficult part of the job was cleaning everything........104 year old dirt is as hard as concrete........and the parts took a stiff brush cleaning in the tank five times total to get them clean enough to be reassembled. Tail light brackets are fabricated and temporarily installed, as are the new front easy on/easy off headlights. Ran into a curve ball with the bulbs and I should get that sorted shortly. One of the headlight lenses was a home made replacement......so now I need to find another......sometimes the BS never ends. Drew up a wiring harness for the lights and fuel pump. Also began fabrication of the stop light switch.......all of this stuff is hidden and made with correct 1917 era materials. We drained the oil for the third or fourth time, and dropped the small oil pan clean out and screen. Everything looked good. I installed some magnets to the oil pan cover that is removed each time the screen is cleaned.....if we get any metal in the pan it will stick to the magnets. Only two large items left unaddressed mechanically is the rear brakes and wheel bearings, and a new set of tires. With the holidays and friends and family showing up, things will slow down for a few weeks. Plan is to have the car entirely done by January 2021. We will be tour ready for years to come. Photo below of the spindle and new bushings installed.

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Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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Good evening yesterday........we put the White front end back together. It took about three hours to get it apart. It took another two hours finding bushings and bearings. Cleaning took about 8 hours........and that's NOT paint prep........just getting the concrete like dirt and grease off of everything. Each side went togeather in less than 15 minutes.......the front end is that easy to work on. Everything is tight.......no more flopping or wobble while driving ..............we didn't actually drive it today.....but I'm certain its better than new. The lights are still progressing, and we installed the brake light switch also. Fabricating things in a shop that isn't set up for iron working makes things go slow. Every modification is bolt on with no drilling and everything can be removed in just minutes. The car still continues to impress as as we service it and learn new construction details. Here are a few photos of the front end.......Best, Ed.

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3 hours ago, padgett said:

Wow, taper and a Woodruff key. They weren't taking any chances.


 

Nope....overbuilt. Came apart easy....I was stunned. Notice the leather boots over every joint and linkage ..........all 104 years old. There must be fifty of them on the car...........Trimacar is gonna be busy when we get to them.

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Dave and I go a long way back........we get along just fine. Two old school guys who see most things the same way. 👍
 

 

There are literally fifty leather boots........but I think Dave will only have to make me two for the driveshaft. They have been removed, and are in great condition.....except stiff from 104 years of sitting on the shaft. They shrunk quite a bit and they are very large. The smaller ones have not suffered too badly.

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Here is a page from the owners manual.........good detail, and the list of parts is also interesting to use while looking at the blow up. Interesting to see the book shows grease cups in the entire front end, while the car actually has grease fittings.

 

 

 

 

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Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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Not really good engineers know how to make  an RFQ sole source and how to use a spreadsheet to make the bottom line a fixed value.

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If these photos have been seen before, ignore them.

 

They were posted on a facebook as part of a quite large album by Joe Rudick. They look to have been taken in Washington, DC, around 1918-19, although there are some earlier ones in the album as well.

 

Those I have posted here are mostly the same car. There are several instances in the album of multiple pics of the same car - adds interest I think.

 

Maybe someone knows the original source?

 

 

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"I don't think that the White engineers were in the habit of using spreadsheets." What do you call a log table or a steam table. Accountants have also been using for centuries just the term "electronic spreadsheet) is from 1978.

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1 hour ago, nzcarnerd said:

If these photos have been seen before, ignore them.

 

They were posted on a facebook as part of a quite large album by Joe Rudick. They look to have been taken in Washington, DC, around 1918-19, although there are some earlier ones in the album as well.

 

Those I have posted here are mostly the same car. There are several instances in the album of multiple pics of the same car - adds interest I think.

 

Maybe someone knows the original source?

 

 

White maybe 1.jpg

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The White cars are all 1915-1916 4-45 series cars. They also made a 6-60 series car..........the numbers correspond to cylinders and horsepower. They are on a 124 inch chassis.(4)

 

The event was the US Army and French Army inspection tour looking at having trucks and tanks made for the first war. They did a large loop from Washington DC, up to Boston, out to Buffalo and then Cleveland, over to Detroit, St Louis and then back to DC. It was well publicized and documented in the newspapers of the day. The Pierce Arrow cars are also very nice! 

 

 

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2 hours ago, edinmass said:

The Pierce Arrow cars are also very nice! 

They are indeed, and appear to be 66s from the very tall hoods.  Notice the curve of the cowls down from the top of the hoods, different from those on less-tall 48s.  Almost certainly the touring car is a 66, and most likely the Vestibule Suburban as well.

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I noted there was enthusiasm for the Pierces so I went and found the relevant photos. I think there may have been only one 66 Vestibule Suburban used on that occasion(?). At circa $8,000, according to my copy of The Standard Catalog, probably not a big seller? Note in one photo the smiles on the faces of the young-looking passengers. I guess  there is an explanation somewhere.

 

The second photo is possibly from an earlier date and relates to a suffragette demo. A circa 1909-ish Pierce?

 

 

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The coach and all the above cars are 1916 models. The cars are series 4-45. They called them gear jammers.......from the strange shift pattern.........the 1916 cars had the shorter 124 inch chassis. Bodies were factory units built in batch by Kundtz. They also built cabinets for White sewing machines. It’s interesting how prolific White was selling vehicles to the government............

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Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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40 minutes ago, edinmass said:

The coach and all the above cars are 1916 models. The cars are series 4-45. They called them gear jammers.......from the strange shift pattern.........the 1916 cars had the shorter 124 inch chassis. Bodies were factory units built in batch by Kundtz. They also built cabinets for White sewing machines. It’s interesting how prolific White was selling vehicles to the government............

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These two photos are from NZ. Maybe I posted them somewhere? The bus was supplied by Newton King in New Plymouth. The sheep truck photo was taken in 1927.

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The bus was supplied by Newton King in New Plymouth

 

Newton King were also the Studebaker agent and I vividly remember as a kid standing in the front of the showroom window in about 1950 looking at the new car with the big bullet in the middle of the grill.  As the footpath was a bit lower than the showroom it was right at my eye level and I'd never seen anything like it.

 

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4 hours ago, nickelroadster said:

I would like to nominate this post as "The post of the year".  How many concur? 

 

A really tough call. I would say this one and the "Period images to relieve some of the stress" thread are the two top contenders.  Somewhat like 1939 in film history, when there were several major films that fully deserved "Best Picture" status, deciding which of these two should be so honored would be difficult.

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Ed deserves a lot of credit for this thread.  Documenting what he was doing was not trivial and he manages to do it in an entertaining way.  On the other hand,  the White was distracting him from more important stuff he had to work on,  so I might lean towards Walt's thread.  

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9 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

 

A really tough call. I would say this one and the "Period images to relieve some of the stress" thread are the two top contenders.  Somewhat like 1939 in film history, when there were several major films that fully deserved "Best Picture" status, deciding which of these two should be so honored would be difficult.

I think this one takes it - has all the right things - drama, suspense, surprise, intrigue and even a little sex! Plus no violence unless someone comes to blows because his engine still is not finished?  The "Period images to relieve some of the stress" definitely should win the best documentary  of the year. 

Both are winners!

dave s 

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On 12/21/2020 at 7:57 PM, edinmass said:

Here is a page from the owners manual.........good detail, and the list of parts is also interesting to use while looking at the blow up. Interesting to see the book shows grease cups in the entire front end, while the car actually has grease fittings.

I suspect they offered the buyer a choice or when car was originally shown they had whatever was new and trendy to catch the eye. 

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On 12/21/2020 at 9:12 PM, nickelroadster said:

They just did what they bloody well felt like!

Nope, patent law was already quite well established and with the number of manufacturers at time they either had to buy someones technology or build their own technology, though axle design was quite spoken for via the period.  

 

 

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21 hours ago, padgett said:

When you didn't need a permit.

Again - Nope, patent law was already quite well established and with the number of manufacturers at time they either had to buy someones technology or build their own technology, though axle design was quite spoken for via the period.  

 

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Sidenote:  As to axle technology:  Packard's come and go with dad and I, though he preaches that the technology is in the brass era cars, the first generation twin six, the front wheel drive prototype, the V-12 engine prototype, the second generation Twin Six, the Twelve, the Torsion Bar Suspension, and the V-8.  In fairness too, there was technology in the radial diesel aircraft engine - it paved the way for their WWII production and eventually their relationship with Curtis-Wright and pioneering jet aviation.  And discussion otherwise is that Packard was a company that designed around other peoples patents.  My grandfather was heavily involved with the Merlin project for the Military - he had no interest in a Packard for anything otherwise and quite ingrained that into my dad.   My point is:  When someone beats you to the punch then you buy the patented technology or you then design your own. 

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"When you didn't need a permit. "- John: interesting since I was talking about your post with Santa and his Reindeer over a city street. As for ALAM, by 1912 they were ded. Besides they misspelled Gasoline.

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On 12/23/2020 at 4:32 AM, nzcarnerd said:

I noted there was enthusiasm for the Pierces so I went and found the relevant photos. I think there may have been only one 66 Vestibule Suburban used on that occasion(?). At circa $8,000, according to my copy of The Standard Catalog, probably not a big seller? Note in one photo the smiles on the faces of the young-looking passengers. I guess  there is an explanation somewhere.

 

The second photo is possibly from an earlier date and relates to a suffragette demo. A circa 1909-ish Pierce?

 

 

 

 

 

Pierce 4.jpg

 

The only other car of that era that would be as eyecatching as this P-A with its arched lintel over the door would be a Gregorie 'Triple Berline' from France:

 

13_Gregoire_TB.jpg

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39 minutes ago, padgett said:

"When you didn't need a permit. "- John: interesting since I was talking about your post with Santa and his Reindeer over a city street. As for ALAM, by 1912 they were ded. Besides they misspelled Gasoline.

That is a photo I believe is from somewhere in Los Angeles - I do not know "history" if some store did that or one of the Cities proper (cool photo any way about it though).  

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It is like comparing "Gone With the Wind", and "The Wizard of OZ", then looking at "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington". All three incredible movies, just totally different. I have very much enjoyed both of these threads this past year. Ed M and Walt are both to be congratulated.

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