The phone rang... and then the next car adventure starts

[padgett]

Not really good engineers know how to make  an RFQ sole source and how to use a spreadsheet to make the bottom line a fixed value.

[nickelroadster]

I don't think that the White engineers were in the habit of using spreadsheets.

[nzcarnerd]

If these photos have been seen before, ignore them.

 

They were posted on a facebook as part of a quite large album by Joe Rudick. They look to have been taken in Washington, DC, around 1918-19, although there are some earlier ones in the album as well.

 

Those I have posted here are mostly the same car. There are several instances in the album of multiple pics of the same car - adds interest I think.

 

Maybe someone knows the original source?

 

 

[padgett]

"I don't think that the White engineers were in the habit of using spreadsheets." What do you call a log table or a steam table. Accountants have also been using for centuries just the term "electronic spreadsheet) is from 1978.

[edinmass]

1 hour ago, nzcarnerd said:

If these photos have been seen before, ignore them.

 

They were posted on a facebook as part of a quite large album by Joe Rudick. They look to have been taken in Washington, DC, around 1918-19, although there are some earlier ones in the album as well.

 

Those I have posted here are mostly the same car. There are several instances in the album of multiple pics of the same car - adds interest I think.

 

Maybe someone knows the original source?

 

 

The White cars are all 1915-1916 4-45 series cars. They also made a 6-60 series car..........the numbers correspond to cylinders and horsepower. They are on a 124 inch chassis.(4)

 

The event was the US Army and French Army inspection tour looking at having trucks and tanks made for the first war. They did a large loop from Washington DC, up to Boston, out to Buffalo and then Cleveland, over to Detroit, St Louis and then back to DC. It was well publicized and documented in the newspapers of the day. The Pierce Arrow cars are also very nice! 

 

 

[Grimy]

2 hours ago, edinmass said:

The Pierce Arrow cars are also very nice! 

They are indeed, and appear to be 66s from the very tall hoods.  Notice the curve of the cowls down from the top of the hoods, different from those on less-tall 48s.  Almost certainly the touring car is a 66, and most likely the Vestibule Suburban as well.

[nzcarnerd]

I noted there was enthusiasm for the Pierces so I went and found the relevant photos. I think there may have been only one 66 Vestibule Suburban used on that occasion(?). At circa $8,000, according to my copy of The Standard Catalog, probably not a big seller? Note in one photo the smiles on the faces of the young-looking passengers. I guess  there is an explanation somewhere.

 

The second photo is possibly from an earlier date and relates to a suffragette demo. A circa 1909-ish Pierce?

 

 

[nzcarnerd]

A link to those albums - I have not yet been through most of them - (1) Old photos of people with their Rides Pre-1980s | Facebook

[padgett]

Rear door had extra clearance for a Top Hat ?

[nzcarnerd]

5 hours ago, padgett said:

Rear door had extra clearance for a Top Hat ?

 

That is the 'vestibule' part.

[nzcarnerd]

More Whites. These photos were posted just yesterday on the Buses of Yellowstone Preservation Trust facebook page.

 

A pity the 'bulk' Whites shot is so small.

 

 

[edinmass]

The coach and all the above cars are 1916 models. The cars are series 4-45. They called them gear jammers.......from the strange shift pattern.........the 1916 cars had the shorter 124 inch chassis. Bodies were factory units built in batch by Kundtz. They also built cabinets for White sewing machines. It’s interesting how prolific White was selling vehicles to the government............

Edited December 23, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[nzcarnerd]

40 minutes ago, edinmass said:

The coach and all the above cars are 1916 models. The cars are series 4-45. They called them gear jammers.......from the strange shift pattern.........the 1916 cars had the shorter 124 inch chassis. Bodies were factory units built in batch by Kundtz. They also built cabinets for White sewing machines. It’s interesting how prolific White was selling vehicles to the government............

 

These two photos are from NZ. Maybe I posted them somewhere? The bus was supplied by Newton King in New Plymouth. The sheep truck photo was taken in 1927.

[DavidAU]

The bus was supplied by Newton King in New Plymouth

 

Newton King were also the Studebaker agent and I vividly remember as a kid standing in the front of the showroom window in about 1950 looking at the new car with the big bullet in the middle of the grill.  As the footpath was a bit lower than the showroom it was right at my eye level and I'd never seen anything like it.

 

[John_Mereness]

[padgett]

When you didn't need a permit.

[nickelroadster]

I would like to nominate this post as "The post of the year".  How many concur? 

[wayne sheldon]

4 hours ago, nickelroadster said:

I would like to nominate this post as "The post of the year".  How many concur? 

 

A really tough call. I would say this one and the "Period images to relieve some of the stress" thread are the two top contenders.  Somewhat like 1939 in film history, when there were several major films that fully deserved "Best Picture" status, deciding which of these two should be so honored would be difficult.

[alsancle]

Ed deserves a lot of credit for this thread.  Documenting what he was doing was not trivial and he manages to do it in an entertaining way.  On the other hand,  the White was distracting him from more important stuff he had to work on,  so I might lean towards Walt's thread.  

[edinmass]

That’s a very nice complement from Dave C. It’s been nothing but fun.....and best of all, with a new car I also made a dozen new friends. 

[SC38dls]

9 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

 

A really tough call. I would say this one and the "Period images to relieve some of the stress" thread are the two top contenders.  Somewhat like 1939 in film history, when there were several major films that fully deserved "Best Picture" status, deciding which of these two should be so honored would be difficult.

I think this one takes it - has all the right things - drama, suspense, surprise, intrigue and even a little sex! Plus no violence unless someone comes to blows because his engine still is not finished?  The "Period images to relieve some of the stress" definitely should win the best documentary  of the year. 

Both are winners!

dave s 

[John_Mereness]

On 12/21/2020 at 7:57 PM, edinmass said:

Here is a page from the owners manual.........good detail, and the list of parts is also interesting to use while looking at the blow up. Interesting to see the book shows grease cups in the entire front end, while the car actually has grease fittings.

I suspect they offered the buyer a choice or when car was originally shown they had whatever was new and trendy to catch the eye. 

[John_Mereness]

On 12/21/2020 at 9:12 PM, nickelroadster said:

They just did what they bloody well felt like!

Nope, patent law was already quite well established and with the number of manufacturers at time they either had to buy someones technology or build their own technology, though axle design was quite spoken for via the period.  

 

 

Edited December 26, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

21 hours ago, padgett said:

When you didn't need a permit.

Again - Nope, patent law was already quite well established and with the number of manufacturers at time they either had to buy someones technology or build their own technology, though axle design was quite spoken for via the period.  

 

Edited December 26, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history)

[John_Mereness]

Sidenote:  As to axle technology:  Packard's come and go with dad and I, though he preaches that the technology is in the brass era cars, the first generation twin six, the front wheel drive prototype, the V-12 engine prototype, the second generation Twin Six, the Twelve, the Torsion Bar Suspension, and the V-8.  In fairness too, there was technology in the radial diesel aircraft engine - it paved the way for their WWII production and eventually their relationship with Curtis-Wright and pioneering jet aviation.  And discussion otherwise is that Packard was a company that designed around other peoples patents.  My grandfather was heavily involved with the Merlin project for the Military - he had no interest in a Packard for anything otherwise and quite ingrained that into my dad.   My point is:  When someone beats you to the punch then you buy the patented technology or you then design your own. 

[padgett]

"When you didn't need a permit. "- John: interesting since I was talking about your post with Santa and his Reindeer over a city street. As for ALAM, by 1912 they were ded. Besides they misspelled Gasoline.

[8E45E]

On 12/23/2020 at 4:32 AM, nzcarnerd said:

I noted there was enthusiasm for the Pierces so I went and found the relevant photos. I think there may have been only one 66 Vestibule Suburban used on that occasion(?). At circa $8,000, according to my copy of The Standard Catalog, probably not a big seller? Note in one photo the smiles on the faces of the young-looking passengers. I guess  there is an explanation somewhere.

 

The second photo is possibly from an earlier date and relates to a suffragette demo. A circa 1909-ish Pierce?

 

 

 

 

 

 

The only other car of that era that would be as eyecatching as this P-A with its arched lintel over the door would be a Gregorie 'Triple Berline' from France:

 

[John_Mereness]

39 minutes ago, padgett said:

"When you didn't need a permit. "- John: interesting since I was talking about your post with Santa and his Reindeer over a city street. As for ALAM, by 1912 they were ded. Besides they misspelled Gasoline.

That is a photo I believe is from somewhere in Los Angeles - I do not know "history" if some store did that or one of the Cities proper (cool photo any way about it though).  

[Grimy]

5 hours ago, edinmass said:

.and best of all, with a new car I also made a dozen new friends. 

So now you have 15....

[edinmass]

59 minutes ago, Grimy said:

So now you have 15....

 

And I don’t pay the other three...............👍

[nickelroadster]

A comment on Wayne's comment.

"Period images" is kind of a different type of post that has multiple authors.  Ed's "White post" is mostly controlled and authored by him.  Different category.  What we do need are more of each kind of post.  The more the better.

[wayne sheldon]

It is like comparing "Gone With the Wind", and "The Wizard of OZ", then looking at "Mr. Smith Goes to Washington". All three incredible movies, just totally different. I have very much enjoyed both of these threads this past year. Ed M and Walt are both to be congratulated.

[edinmass]

Some call me “Don Fanucci” so I’ll go with The Godfather.............🤔That’s a Don Fanucci pose in the hallway.

 

I just want to wet my beak a little.............Good boy!

 

 

Edited December 27, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[padgett]

" they either had to buy someones technology or build their own technology, " actually there was and is another option: cross licensing. Have at least one software patent that my employer never used except to exchange for use of other patents. Personally do not believe in such that lasts longer than five years, otherwise it stifles innovation. The 20th century is full of patents that caused little except a hold up of technology. ob AACA: Power Steering was well known before W2 but was held up by attempts to circumvent the Davis patent.

[edinmass]

Update:

 

Well, things are continuing slower during the holidays. We now have the new tail lights on the car, wired, and working. This car had a single rear running light with no stop light. The new headlight bracket and light buckets have been fabricated and installed. Working on the new reflectors and halogen bulbs. Wiring is in place.......and we should have a much safer car for the open roads. Were are getting much closer to the end.....only rear brakes, clutch adjustment, and some lubrication to deal with. And also, the new tires. More photos tomorrow. Notice the 1919 Ford T taillights.......they remove entirely with one nut and a quick disconnect. The harnesses made entirely from period materials and also just unplugs........all so we can go on the show field in truly stock condition.👍

Edited January 2, 2021 by edinmass (see edit history)

[A. Ballard 35R]

Found this ad from May 1917 pasted in one of my father's old scrapbooks and thought it might be of interest. I'm sure Ed already has it but it depicts a pretty sporty body style.

Edited January 1, 2021 by A. Ballard 35R
Added date (see edit history)

[edinmass]

1917 White with a four door Roadster body. Rubay coach builders. Model GLA.......same chassis as mine but a foot shorter. 👍👍👍

[58L-Y8]

The one design feature that appeared occasionally beginning in the Brass Era were long, elegant, sweeping front fenders.  But, for whatever reason, they never caught on until the early 1930's Classic Era.  Cycle-style fenders were the choice of the sporty car makers in the WWI-mid'20's years.  It would be interesting to know if Rubay also designed the fenders to accompany their four door roadster body.

[alsancle]

On 12/26/2020 at 11:30 PM, edinmass said:

Some call me “Don Fanucci” so I’ll go with The Godfather.............🤔That’s a Don Fanucci pose in the hallway.

 

I just want to wet my beak a little.............Good boy!

 

 

 

 

 

[edinmass]

Al......I’m going to make you an offer on the Stutz speedster.........an offer you can’t refuse. 😎