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The phone rang... and then the next car adventure starts


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I don't know that this will be of any help...probably not but it never hurts to have more information. I'm sure I have two of these little booklets but I'll be damned if I can find the extra one. I know it will show up sooner or later...nevertheless, here is the section on timing.

 

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12 hours ago, nickelroadster said:

Ed,

 

It looks like your on to the "roadside restoration" stage.  Have you been able to find very much White  company information on the car?  What I would really like is something along the lines of discussions between the bean counters and the engineers.  How did they ever come up with where this car fit in the universe of car niches.  How did they make decisions on what design features to use?


 

We are definitely at the drive and tune portion of the sorting. I just need to be legal down the road to do it. I won’t chance a ticket and tow here in Florida. Up in Massachusetts I could easily get away with sticking a plate on it in the countryside........here there is just way too much exposure. 
 

Now a few comments of White engineering, design, and quality. The frame on this car is heavier (read thicker) than ANY car I have ever worked on. Makes a Model J frame look like tin foil........and that’s no exaggeration. It’s absolutely absurd the frame on the car is built like it is. It’s really unreasonable. Looking at the suspension with the 19/20 leaf springs in the front / rear.......which are ground and tapered.........and you start to get an idea of how the car is built. Every single component is made to be serviced.......on the side of the road. It was made to be indestructible........and they achieved their goal. It’s like working on a Springfield Ghost but with even better engineering..........it’s over built, but NOT over complicated like the Rolls. Everything on the car has grease fittings.....everything. It’s asinine at the number of fittings. Also oil channels and spot lubrication points......the thing was made to never wear out if you took care of it. We are now running 10-30 oil in it, cold at idle it shows 18 pounds pressure, and the gauge goes to 30. When warm, at idle it has 11 pounds pressure. Around the parking lot at low rpm’s it’s showing 22 before the oil regulator starts to bleed off the excess pressure.....the motor is still basically like new. Another interesting item is the starting system. With 12 volts, the thing spins over like nothing I have seen pre WW1. It’s that good. My 14 Caddy had the neat and complicated self starter and generator with the sprague that motored before you engaged it......the White system is simple, indescribable, powerful, and works fantastic......an unusual feature in its time period. It uses the two wire system for the starter , so both legs from the battery go directly to it(the starter) it’s unusual and I have never seen it before. The generator is also the two wire system.........they weren’t taking any chances on this car with poor grounds. Makes for interesting connections with a mechanical starter solenoid. Every system on the car is well thought out, no shortcuts were taken, and most of the controls remind me of a cross between Pierce Arrow and Rolls Royce. This car simply steers better than ANY car I have ever driven pre 1932......it’s that good. Attention to detail is over the top, with leather gaiters around all the steering and suspension joints and linkages. The gaiters have buckles and are then hand tied on.........by some skilled leather craftsman using a funky lace style. They look beautiful.......and have all survived in like new condition except the two on the driveshaft that’s Trimacar had said he would help me with. I counted twenty two of them yesterday, and I’m sure I missed another half dozen. The rear has stabilator shock absorbers on each side, both functional and in good condition. It really bothered me to have to remove the front factory exhaust pipe..........there was no choice in the matter. The flange at the manifold rusted away.....the pipe was still fine. I could have done a small splice but the area under hood was so tight I decided to replace about 70 percent of the first pipe to make it easier to service. The cooling system is water tight.....running water with cutting oil in it for now.........corrosion protection and lubrication for the pump. I ordered a new thermometer for the original Boyce moto meter. The meter looks great, but it wasn’t functioning. Usually I am a “less is more” guy when it comes to automotive accessories on a car......but in this case I might add an interesting mascot to the car. Only if I can find the “perfect” one to match the cars personality. When I bought this machine through the interesting process of a text message, phone call, texted photos, and using a friend as a go between.........I knew it was a good car. When I finally inspected it in person, I knew it was a great car. Now that I have serviced it, and driven it a bit......I have come to realize it’s a fantastic car. This car will hold up to ANY car built from 1915-1918........ANY CAR and I have driven and serviced most of the great stuff at one time or another. It's really is that great. Makes me smile every time I open the door to the shop. It’s fascinating how the engineers and designers decided to build it, and the choices they made. Magneto ignition, 12 volt two wire system, dual valve mono block T head, four speed with overdrive, built in air compressor.....not a bolt on accessory, their own barrel valve carburator, obviously the engineering team had many of their own ideas on what their version of the perfect car was.......and there is NO doubt they were trying to build the perfect car. Did they succeed? Well, all I can confirm so far is they did an exceptionally good job. I can communicate this.......I never in my life thought I would own a pre WW1 car of this quality regardless of manufacturer. Add in the aluminum custom body, the auto show photos that are almost certainly this car, the great lines of the car for its era, it’s overall size.....139 inch chassis, it truly is an American automotive masterpiece..........a joy to own, drive, and service. I feel very fortunate to have been able to awaken the car after an 80 year slumber. I will properly service and maintain it for the next caretaker.........and for the record, this is an estate car. I won’t go anywhere until my executor handles it. I will keep this car as long as I live. Of the hundreds of toys I have been fortunate to own, this is only the second machine that I have ever acquired that is will NOT sell. Thanks to all who have expressed an interest in the car, the process, and the adventure during this crazy pandemic summer. It’s been a fantastic journey with it so far, and sharing the car with all the people here has made it even better. As always, more to come. Best, Ed.

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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Ed, one of the best phone calls I ever made. 

 

The fellow who owned it was dispersing his collection, and he was down to two vehicles.  I was able to place both of them in good hands, and though I'd have had the White had I been a younger man, I could never have done it the justice it deserves as Ed has done (yes, I know, my high school English teacher is jumping up and down about that sentence).

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Guess I am surprised you don't have a dealer plate. Last I checked you just needed a sign.

"Section 320.13, Florida Statutes allows dealers to purchase metal dealer license plates which are valid for use on vehicles owned by the dealer while the vehicles are in inventory and for sale, or while being operated in connection with your dealership's business"

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44 minutes ago, padgett said:

Guess I am surprised you don't have a dealer plate. Last I checked you just needed a sign.

"Section 320.13, Florida Statutes allows dealers to purchase metal dealer license plates which are valid for use on vehicles owned by the dealer while the vehicles are in inventory and for sale, or while being operated in connection with your dealership's business"


 

Ever put a dealer plate on a seven figure vehicle? Trust me, you get stopped instantly. The man wants his sales tax......in a BIG bad way. Back in 1986 in Massachusetts I was driving a then 300k car, and the RMV had a road block at a round about.......they tried to stop me for no sticker........I blew past them, and first thing the next day, they were at my business fuming I didn’t stop. I had a dealer plate from our motorcycle shop on the car. They were yelling I couldn’t  use a plate on a car......since I was a motorcycle shop. I asked them to show me where it said that in the MGL regulations......and they couldn’t . Fortunately it was really a customer car, taxes paid and titled, just not registered. They then came after me personally........and I had three cars in Mass with regular registrations........so they struck out. We did drive all the good stuff on dealer plates, and kept three winter beaters on regular registrations. They weren’t happy, but we beat them. Today there are creative ways to get around the man......which I will not discuss. In the short term, I will register it like a modern car. Once it’s sorted and 100 percent dependable........I will do something else. 

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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Update:

 

Test and tune. We had obvious timing issues since day one when we started it. Time to address the timing today. Lots of problems and issues, but we “cheated” our way to be able to test the timing problems we were having. I made a new magneto drive disk with slotted holes to change the timing between the output shaft on the exhaust cam and the input on the magneto. Not perfect yet, but much better. We got the engine to rev up to half throttle.......and the White designed carburetor’s secondary’s started to kick in.........sort of, kind of.........but not correctly. The thing runs like a raped ape. I now know why it only has 11k miles on it. It used all the gasoline in the Western Hemisphere.........and ran the country dry. That’s why we ended up getting oil from thr Middle East .........White Cars use more fuel than Patton’s Third Army when they are on the move. So, an inside stock tip.......every time I take this thing on tour.....buy oil stocks. This thing is becoming frighteningly fast......and we are only at half throttle. It’s not reasonable...........doesn’t car care what  gear it’s in........shut up, step on the gas, and get the sxxt scared out of you. The car is an animal..........it’s too easy to get into trouble with. All the while we were laughing and getting blood pressure spikes. We are done driving it till we get plates.....it just isn’t reasonable to road test in the parking lot any more. We still have fuel delivery, fuel system, and ignition issues......this one is not going to sort fast. I may need a loan to buy gas..........maybe we need to do a go fund me page for hydro carbons. More later.......I have a huge smile on my face!

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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12 minutes ago, HarryLime said:

Perhaps a Simms coupling to drive the magneto would enable you to dial in the timing . If there is room for the coupling .


 

That’s a new one on me, I’m game, where do I find one? Thanks, Ed.

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14 hours ago, JV Puleo said:

I don't know that this will be of any help...probably not but it never hurts to have more information. I'm sure I have two of these little booklets but I'll be damned if I can find the extra one. I know it will show up sooner or later...nevertheless, here is the section on timing.

 

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Thanks Joe.....this made me use the cheater slotted drive half assed attempted fix.......which partially worked. I need more time to study this thing. It isn’t going to be easy to get perfect. Just more time........the thing we never have enough of. I’m going to go back to a stock magneto as soon as possible.........

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I hate to cheat the car out, but it looks like a great test and tune tool........In for a penny, in for a dime. Thanks for the heads up.......you get to drive it when it’s sorted. 👍

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https://www.vintagecarparts.co.uk/products/ca1132-vernier-coupling-assembly      This is but one example I found quickly . It is the assembly and requires machining to your application. I have not seen the coupling posted above . Perhaps easier to fit to your application .

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Sims couplings are sold by The Complete Automobilist. I think the magneto timing device sold by Restoration Supply is too modern, especially for this car. I went with this design illustrated in Heldt's 1912 engine design text. It wasn't a simple thing to make but I think I could do one for the white if you thought it was worthwhile...just not until I've finished some other things. I did have a special tapered end mill ground to replicate the Bosch taper - which is not one you'll ever find a stock reamer for.

 

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Somewhere, in my Mitchell thread, I've shown how I made mine.

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Thanks Joe. I want to get the car running correctly......which is probably a long way off. I should be able to cheat it with my slotted drive solution until we get a solid game plan. It’s a replacement magneto, and I have a factory unit coming in a few months......although I don’t yet have a drive yolk for it. Between the fuel fittings, vacuumed tank, missing petcocks, and other hardware under hood for the throttle linkage........it’s time to start sorting and making it run right. When it’s where I want it to be, we will make or locate everything for it to be period correct. I absolutely go insane when I see pre war cars with modern fuel line hardware. This car is going to be a big challenge to get right. 

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Well back when a yonker the PBPolice was more like a private force and residents got waves. WPB was more like gestapo for a resident, did not like. Just was suggesting a dealer plate as a temporary stopgap in a time when the DMV is no longer just walk in. At least you should get the +30 years discount or maybe the one time $46.50 antique plate. My cars are all DDs but am finally out of plates with all these unplanned twofers.

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Update:

 

A few interesting things today. Upper windshield photo, we now have safety glass, with correct markings for the show field. With the look of this car, I decided to use a modern marking instead of a vintage marking. I just don’t want to have any issues with this car while going down the road.....and a early marking might confuse the so called enforcement people......on or off the show field. The car now starts much easier that we shifted the timing.........we had to severely retard it...........seems appropriate for the two guys working on it. Also got to play with the exhaust cut out with the floor boards installed for the first time. It’s a progressive valve with a automatic lock at wide open...........when we were making the new linkage I kept to the original design as closely as possible......which worked out well, as we were missing some parts and items that we found later......and installed. Thus staying true to the design, we didn’t have to back track, and now with a touch of your heel, you can open it momentarily.......or mash it and lock it open. Mash it again, and the quick release closes it easily. Fun stuff to keep finding new functions this late in the servicing. With all the work done, and being so close to the finish line......working on the car is easier and less aggravating. It’s nice to walk into the shop and know your not going home bleeding or sore because all the hard stuff is over. It’s now the “attention to detail” stuff we couldn’t figure out earlier that is going to slow us down. I need to become a gas guage fabricator.........and I admit I rather find someone else to do it..........I figure it will take several tries before I am happy with the results........so we will make parts for five gauges........if I end up with two good ones I will be happy. Also, the fan clutch finally broke loose today. I think it was gummed up and the fan was basically locked to the chain.......either the long term exposure to the hot oil, engine heat, or just pulling on it while trying to time the engine.......it released. Now you can stick you hand into the fan and still have something for the emergency room to stitch together. It’s fun how the car continues it improve in small ways. Here is a photo of the upper glass, and the fan drive spindle.....it’s driven by a silence chain about two inches wide......overkill. Looking forward to progress with our supplemental lighting system soon.

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Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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Wonderful stuff! I enjoy reading about this incredible car and your adventure with it. 

Looking at the picture of the windshield frame, I can see what you mean about being so fantastically over-built. The heavy casting, the wing nuts, and the stops to hold the upper glass in a lowered position are incredible! I recall you saying some time ago about how heavy that frame was. Interesting now to see it this close.

 

You commented again about the many tapered leaves springs on this beast. Working on many antiques cars over the years, and early model T Fords in particular, I always found tapered leaves to be an interesting study in design, form, and practical function. Earlier model Ts (before 1918) had tapered leaf springs on the rear, and on the front they were tapered before 1916. You know this as you yourself have a 1915 T Ford. However, I always found this interesting because Henry was so known for pinching pennies on the cars he built and sold. Engineers know that a tapered leaf is the ideal design for leaf springs. The thickness of the spring steel has less advantage with each inch from the pivotal point. However, making/manufacturing tapered leaves by any method (either rolled or ground) is labor intensive. Rolling the taper requires very heavy specialized machinery. Automated grinding requires major machinery, makes a huge mess, and requires constant maintenance. Either hammering or grinding manually takes a lot of man-hours to do the job (I know, I have done it myself a few times!), and such grinding again makes a huge mess.

The only real downside to leaving the leaves full thickness is unnecessary weight. The other major incentive to taper the spring leaves was simply tradition. Throughout most of the horse drawn carriage century, springs were hand made by forge and hammer. Steel was expensive, and drawing out the length by tapering spring leaves saved a limited and costly resource. As automobile production got going, it was natural to continue doing things the way they had been done for many years before. However, as steel mills grew ever larger, steel in general and specialty steels (like spring steel) went down in cost. I often wondered why Henry didn't switch to clipped leaves much earlier. The labor costs versus benefits would have made it advantageous even before the model T was introduced.

A lot of high end cars continued to taper the spring leaves. I suspect that had to do with the perception of quality. As heavy as this car is, I doubt they were concerned about the weight advantage.

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A lot of Bosch Magnetos use a Simms coupling with 19 teeth one side and 20 on the other which enables the timing to be infinitely adjustable.  The magneto shown has a 19 / 20 coupling on it.

 

They would be part No's 446/19, 446/20 provided they have the correct shaft taper and coupling 450 on the following link. https://www.completeautomobilist.com/categories/complete-automobilist-workshop-parts-vernier-coupling  

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Ed I know you have been busy so I didn't want to bother you but I have several thing you might be interested in. I just talked to my friend out west , he has a 1916 60hp 6 cyl White and also the remains of a duel valve 4 Cyl car .Also you said the man your car came from was a long time Tampa FL resident if he was there in the early 60s I would love to see if he knew the man that restored my 1913 60 horse Oakland  most of the old timers in the Tampa area that I knew  have passed on.Call me when you get time I am still in NC. The number here is 828 524 6702 and I am up up till 10:30 most evenings

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Update:

 

I got very sick over the weekend. Worst I have felt in twenty years........they exact way you don't want to feel during a pandemic with the China Flu going around. Took Monday off which is very unusual for me. Anyways, I had all the classic symptoms of the Covid 19. Took a test yesterday and the results today were negative.  So, with feeling like garbage for a few days, I did get to play with the car. Sometime you can't stay away. Phil took time off until I got my results........so he will be back in the game tomorrow. 

 

As only old cars can accomplish something thing while sitting still in a garage thats locked down tight.............the White managed to break itself, without any help........an impressive accomplishment for an inadimate object. The windshield stress cracked...........and, more than three days after being installed, and left alone. Go figure, and we wonder why old car people are insane. Took it back to the place that did it, and got an instant you did it.....not our fault. Fortunatly the opposite side where there was no damage delaminated and had bubbles in it.......proving my theory the glass was junk to start with. So, now they are doing it again, at no cost. We shall see how it turns out. 

 

Picking away at all the little stupid stuff that takes hours, and that is where we are at now. Finally removed all temporary lines, wires, hoses, quick fixes, ect..........and got the car back to factory stock as delivered, from what we know of it. I primed the Stewart Warner vacuum tank, fired the car up, and backed it outside. I must have done 100 vacuum tanks over the years, and learned the do it right the first time lesson. Fortunately it was fine. So, now we actually have a car, as delivered from the factory, with everything in place, functioning properly. Couldn't let such an opportunity to go to waste. While running for forty five minutes in the parking lot and making a few rounds, I decided to check on the non functioning Boyce Moto Meeter........its 103 years old, looks good, but it wasn't working. So, I let the car idle while I took it apart, and was going to replace the thermometer in it, as I had a new spare on hand. I was surprised it was reading almost into the normal range below the front cover....the thing was actually working, and even in 95 degree heat, the car runs so cool it doesn't quite make it to the normal range. Now thats what I call good engineering more than 100 years later. We blocked the radiator in front and got the Boyce to climb into the normal range........its the only time I have had anything normal in my life the last twenty years. So, back together it went. Standing there with a complete and serviced car running, I turned to Phil who happened to be going by and stopped to see the action..........plates or no plates.....this SOB is going down the road! So, for the first time in 81 years, it pulled out of the garage and parking lot and hit the streets. Now remember, my neighbors are use to seeing me drive crazy cool stuff........over the top stuff, and they almost never look sideways or say a peep. Well, when the old "Long in the tooth White" came down the street sputtering and spitting, with the cut out open.......I got a bunch of waves, smiles, and shout outs. Funny how a dumpy looking car gets more attention than a 100 point one off custom big boy toy. Initial driving report. It's fast, stable, easy to shift, and feels like you strapped on a rocket without enough protection. It isn't happy running along at a normal Sunday drive pace..........it just wants more throttle and open road. Its certainly dangerous until one becomes familiar with it.......fast steering, good but just rear brakes, and you're so high up its distracting. We need to get the top down, no choice in the matter. I don't dare pick up any real speed till it's secure. Most interestingly, it doesn't fell like most of my pre WW1 cars to me. It's big, comfortable, easy to drive, and suprisingly uncomplicated for what it is. The 12 volt system is almost like having a pot of gold next to you. The car spins so fast and starts so quick, the 68 Mustang I'm working on seems like an old hit or miss engine at startup. I have just as much confidence now in the White as I did my 1932 Pierce * coupe I had for twenty years that was totally sorted and had countless miles under its belt. I didn't feel the need to carry a screwdriver while on the first test drive. I'm so familiar with it, I know it's not going to stop or cause problems.....an interesting experience on a new to me car thats in it's second century. I have owned a lot of stuff over the years.......this is certainly a top ten toy.........no doubt about it. Can't wait for the dog to go for their first ride. The little one will sit up on the folded top.........she always has to have the highest vantage point when in a car. The big male will just sit in the front passenger seat waiting to bark at dogs walking down the sidewalk. I'm not sure who will have more fun riding in this thing the next few weeks....me or them. 

 

Also, I realized today I'm missing part of the carburetor and intake system. So that my be part of my running rich condition...........since there are only two or three of these things, it will take time to sort out. As soon as I get my paperwork, all I need is gas and I will do a 100 mile run. Best, Ed

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Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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3 hours ago, edinmass said:

, and we wonder why old car people are insane.

 

We are insane because we CHOOSE to do this! On the other hand, there is little in life as satisfying as meeting that challenge, and conquering the complications. 

 

Keep feeling better!

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The definition of insane is doing the same thing over and over again thinking the results will change but they don’t!  Isn’t keeping these old cars running and usable the same thing in many cases. So let’s start saying people are old car enthusiasts instead of insane. No that won’t work we’re just nuts. 

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In the last few years, I was on the lawn at Pebble speaking to the restorer who’s car had just won Best of Show. I walked up to him, shook his hand to congratulate him, and asked a simple question. “Who’s crazier, the guy who writes the checks or the guy who restores the car?” He laughed and said.......”we are!” I’m certain he was correct. 😎

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To be honest, I felt so bad I figured I must have had the Kung Flu, which if I did, at least I would be past all the insanity. Such is life......back to social distancing and masks. 

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The bad news is that most people survive it. They just get so sick they wish they would die before they find out they have to suffer a couple more weeks first. All kidding aside, I hear it is really nasty for a lot of people, many will suffer after effects for the rest of their lives, while many more get it and never even feel sick. That is part of the danger about it. Most people that can spread it, don't even know they have it. Feeling safe themselves, they risk exposure to people that are serious risk health-wise.

Get better!

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I lost a good friend to it, who was on a vent for three weeks. I know four other well known car people who have had it.......all with little or no symptoms. Crazy bug........

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Always sad to lose a friend. No matter how or to what.  I have been fortunate so far with this bug. I don't know of anybody I know having it. Unfortunately, I have been a bit out of touch for a few years now, and there could very well be friends that have it and I not know it. My son however has some health issues that put him at higher risk than the average person. HIs girlfriend's grandmother passed away a couple weeks ago. They drove from Oregon to Chicago rather than fly for a final visit. Then she passed, and they stayed an extra couple days. He needed to be back for a business thing and flew home. Which was exactly what they wanted to avoid. He has taken the test, and so far, negative. So we begin to breath a bit easier again.

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23 hours ago, edinmass said:

Can't wait for the dog to go for their first ride. The little one will sit up on the folded top.........she always has to have the highest vantage point when in a car. The big male will just sit in the front passenger seat waiting to bark at dogs walking down the sidewalk. I'm not sure who will have more fun riding in this thing the next few weeks....me or them. 

 

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I’ve seen this picture before, today it only turned up on alamy.

No question about it though — the dogs. Maybe it’s an exaggeration to say these cars built before the ‘improved roads’ of the 1920’s (which might have a little gravel and maybe even a drainage ditch dug on one side in particularly low-lying areas) were built specifically to take dogs on rides. But they were pretty much intended to pack up the family and go visit people. They weren’t ‘transportation’, no one ever drove these to work.

If it’s a period photograph of a car with a family in it, whether it’s a poor farmer and his Model T or a gazillionaire and his Locomobile, you’d be hard pressed not to find a dog in it.

(The resulting damage of all this dog-talk had his eyes open for the 1st time Tuesday. I sure hope he never wants on top of the folded top - my Buick’s springs don’t offer the smoothest ride.)

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I take it a bit further - long sleeves, trousers, hat, gloves, glasses, and mask with filter plus disinfectant in car. Have been around for longer than most and have had respiratory issues for most of my life. Hoped to hear more news of a vaccine but didn't expect a clown show. Just miss Trivia Tuesdays.

 

Have plenty to do at home, power steering gear on Judge is off for the second time so still on lift and pitman arm puller should be here tomorrow (what looked like the same pitman arm turned out to be 1/2" longer which puts the drag link into the crossmember) so need to swap).

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Update:

 

Ran the car last night for well over an hour straight. Kept it on a very fast idle, didn’t overheat, held oil pressure fine, and overall it behaved well. Water pump started puking, which stopped as soon as we gave a quarter turn on the packing nut. For the first time, the temperature got into the normal range. Started looking into the wiring harness more.......wished I didn’t look. It’s going to need a total replacement. It’s safe for now, and fortunately it’s not overly complicated. Problem is the quality of the White’s construction makes everything difficult to deal with. Also, we don’t want to make it look like we did anything to the car in the way of restoration......so installing new armored wire is out of the question......so, we will try replacing it one wire at a time........but that work will not progress for a while. We still have other things that are more pressing. We could actually live with it if we have to. Phil made the comment he couldn’t believe how much gas the car went through the last few days at idle........I also learned we are missing  a carburetor air horn of some type, from old factory photos that are not very clear. More things to ponder. We might try the Zenith unit sooner than I expected. Started to get everything ready to put the top down. Will try doing it tomorrow. Still no news on the title a week after they said I would have on in hand. I don’t think this is a good sign. I’ll give them a call tomorrow. Getting antsy to drive this thing and put some miles on it. That’s it for now. Ed

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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Took some time off from the White............only worked on it for three hours over the weekend. Today we had an interesting experience. Decided to do a compression check......car has about three hours on the engine now. It had 64-65 lbs across the board when we checked it before start up. That was “wet”, and we were quite happy with it. Today, we did another test..........and we had unexpected results. 80-81 lbs across the board. Remember, this is a 103 year old factory engine......it’s never been apart. I have never seen compression readings like that on any early car......never mind an original engine. Just curious what others think of these numbers. I was ecstatic at 65 and 50 would have been fine on a four cylinder Cadillac. Thoughts? Ed.

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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Ed, it may have been carboning up from a rich mixture during the running time, which would reduce the volume of the combustion chambers.  I think you've alluded to that.  What did the plugs look like?  As a rough rule of thumb, I expect compression test readings at *cranking* speeds to be about (compression ratio--shouldn't be more than 4.5 absolute max on this car) x 14.7 psig at sea level; 4.5 x 14.7 = 66.15.

 

I see Greg (1912Staver) beat me to it while I was typing.

 

If that Greenland ice sheet keeps melting the way it has been, you'll be getting closer to absolute sea level every day.

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27 minutes ago, SC38DLS said:

Maybe you need new glasses and the eight was really a six? 


Nope......two of us each make a pass and take reading independently.

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24 minutes ago, Grimy said:

Ed, it may have been carboning up from a rich mixture during the running time, which would reduce the volume of the combustion chambers.  I think you've alluded to that.  What did the plugs look like?  As a rough rule of thumb, I expect compression test readings at *cranking* speeds to be about (compression ratio--shouldn't be more than 4.5 absolute max on this car) x 14.7 psig at sea level; 4.5 x 14.7 = 66.15.

 

I see Greg (1912Staver) beat me to it while I was typing.

 

If that Greenland ice sheet keeps melting the way it has been, you'll be getting closer to absolute sea level every day.


Had a scope in the cylinders.......no carbon issues then or now. Dual valve would make it breathe better........and 65 was right on the money wet.........it’s a brand new snap on comp kit. Maybe I’ll borrow another from the neighbors.

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You may have flushed out some crud holding the rings with all that gas it drinks 🙂 and thus improving compression.  Most cars of that period had no oil control rings and up to four compression rings per cylinder.

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51 minutes ago, Grimy said:

You may have flushed out some crud holding the rings with all that gas it drinks 🙂 and thus improving compression.  Most cars of that period had no oil control rings and up to four compression rings per cylinder.


I was thinking the rings may have been gummed up.........but the compression number astounds me for the vintage of the car. It has three compression rings, no oil rings. 

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