John_Mereness Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 13 hours ago, edinmass said: I figure there is three weeks full time cleaning out grease fittings and lubrication spots......and I am not looking forward to that! Today were were hand cleaning the oil pan......and it took an hour to do an area the size of a dollar bill, my trusty helper looked at me and said........16 hours to clean it right....so we took it to the local truck dealer and put it in his steam clean bay....they did it in a half hour for 40 bucks.......and it saved our sanity and made us more productive to keep pushing forward. When the time comes to start it for the first time......I will post a day in advance, so the video will be close to real time.........the initial test drive will be from the service garage on my house street to the shop.....five blocks total. With luck, we will get a round trip out of it. The thing is just too big to put on a rollback without hitting the trees. Getting close to the finish line! My record is 17 hours from loosening first bolt to tightening last bolt - I had everything I needed in tools sitting by the car, the parts washer was all fired up, I had a new pan gasket, and I even had a packed lunch and ordered pizza delivered for dinner. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 26, 2020 Author Share Posted August 26, 2020 (edited) Today’s update from last nights work........... Air compressor was stuck solid. Oiled the top end three times and nothing. Didn’t want to damage it.........spent the evening thinking about it. Presto.....use the new inductive Snap On Venom heater to brake the piston loose from all the old varnish and gum. Check it out on YouTube.......works fantastic. Best new tool I have purchased in fifteen years. Anyways, we heated the compressor cylinder for three minutes......and it easily slid apart. The tool is magic........took the pump apart and fixed the check valve on the output side fixed easily, and spent an hour getting the intake pop-it vale unstuck. We will pull the piston off the crankshaft tomorrow and post photos of them. Edited August 26, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 26, 2020 Author Share Posted August 26, 2020 (edited) The oil pan was as nasty and dirty as anything I have ever seen. An hours worth of work and almost no progress. Down here in Florida, they use a steam bay to clean industrial vehicles and equipment. Never seen it up north before..........well, here is the result Of fifteen minutes and twenty bucks. Look close at the pan. Interesting oil channels to redirect any rear main seal leak back into the pan. Also, the oil float is the best I have ever seen regardless of year or manufacturer. The pan came out spotless, too clean to match the rest of the car......see the large oil screen cover on the bottom of the pan.......that’s after cleaning in the safety clean tank for half an hour......100 year old baked on mess. We will let the pan Get back to a barn find cosmetic condition in the future, but I refuse to compromise on the quality and cleanliness of our service work. Edited August 26, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history) 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 26, 2020 Author Share Posted August 26, 2020 More things and stuff...... Last night I finished the Stewart Warner vacuum tank.......it was in decent shape with typical residue you find after seventy years. It’s now rebuilt, and looks just like it should, matching the rest of the engine compartment.......was so busy I forgot to take photos of it under overhaul. Will post photos of it getting installed. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 26, 2020 Author Share Posted August 26, 2020 (edited) The amazon pump failed in less than 8 hours and can’t be fixed. Looked on line again, Grainger wanted 168 for the same pump, found the identical unit at Harbor Fright which I can’t stand due to corporate politics.....but I am in a hurry, so we bought it there........works great, much quieter, no vibration, and it’s working well........block temperature is 162 degrees. All the sludge is running down now that the cylinder block is hot, and the oil on top of the pistons is draining down also.....a unexpected side benefit. Oil pan and compressor will go back on next. More cleaning of splash pans needed. Magneto will go back on when it arrives as we started making the rubber flex disk to drive it from the camshaft. I found a factory Eismann magneto and am having it rebuilt also, so I can have all factory components when we go to preservation class judging. The Bosch is ten times more reliable.....so we will run with that on on the tours. The gas tank is nasty dirty but appears to be in very good shape.I don’t think we will need to seal it......just wash it. Will keep you posted. More fuel system work tomorrow night, and plumbing issues to resolve.......it isn’t going to be easy! Still need to flush the transmission and rear end........that should be done tomorrow night. Another fifty things are in progress..........thanks for checking in........all my best, Ed. Edited August 26, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history) 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 26, 2020 Author Share Posted August 26, 2020 Here is the oil level float that goes into the oil pan......great design, better than any other I have dealt with. Also the oil pan bolts. All the hardware is real nasty dirty.....and it takes three times cleaning it to get it acceptable. Cleaning is 80 percent of the recommissioning work......it’s endless and tiring. We just keep pushing through. Lots of other small victories today......to many to list, and our hands are usually so dirty we can’t get photos of everything. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wayne sheldon Posted August 26, 2020 Share Posted August 26, 2020 Time flies when you are having fun! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 26, 2020 Author Share Posted August 26, 2020 3 minutes ago, wayne sheldon said: Time flies when you are having fun! Or losing your mind......... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 27, 2020 Author Share Posted August 27, 2020 Be sure to check out Joe’s post in restoration projects for his 1910 Mitchell......if you haven’t seen it your missing something special. He has agreed to take in the White’s water pump shaft.........an insane design that is hard to believe it was designed the way it is.........enjoy.....our suffering!😎 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 27, 2020 Author Share Posted August 27, 2020 On 8/25/2020 at 7:32 PM, padgett said: Ed: any trouble getting a title in PBC ? Up here in Orange can get a tag or license renewal this week but no title appointments untli, the end of September (and nothing without an appointment & must be a local resident). Booked it today......8 days out.....no big deal. 👍 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 3 hours ago, edinmass said: Or losing your mind......... Assuming, of course, that you had one to lose.... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 27, 2020 Author Share Posted August 27, 2020 26 minutes ago, Grimy said: Assuming, of course, that you had one to lose.... Lost my mind, and while looking for it, I found this! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimy Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 Keep looking, Ed, Judge Crater and Jimmy Hoffa are probably in there somewhere! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
29hupp Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 Just curious, what is the wattage of the heater you used to get the Evaporust to 163 degrees? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 23 minutes ago, edinmass said: Lost my mind, and while looking for it, I found this! Any idea what auto show this was taken at ? Very ritzy location. A great group of Whites plus a rather interesting looking race car or speedster on the floor above. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 27, 2020 Author Share Posted August 27, 2020 Greg.....Astor Hotel in NYC for the Salon, 1917. Car on the left is probably mine.......... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 27, 2020 Author Share Posted August 27, 2020 6 hours ago, 29hupp said: Just curious, what is the wattage of the heater you used to get the Evaporust to 163 degrees? No clue, Matt used it, so I found it on Amazon under bucket heater. It has two yellow ends......easy to find. Works great for this job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Schramm Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 On 8/25/2020 at 9:56 PM, edinmass said: I figure there is three weeks full time cleaning out grease fittings and lubrication spots......and I am not looking forward to that! Today were were hand cleaning the oil pan......and it took an hour to do an area the size of a dollar bill, my trusty helper looked at me and said........16 hours to clean it right....so we took it to the local truck dealer and put it in his steam clean bay....they did it in a half hour for 40 bucks....... That is exactly what I did with my last oil pan, except I took it to my local machine shop. He had to leave it in the cleaner overnight twice to get it clean. Best money I spent versus my time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SC38dls Posted August 27, 2020 Share Posted August 27, 2020 3 hours ago, edinmass said: No clue, Matt used it, so I found it on Amazon under bucket heater. It has two yellow ends......easy to find. Works great for this job. That type or a floating type is what we use in the horse water trough in The burbs of Chicago during the winter. There is one you can put in the low side of the bucket permanently so the horse can’t pull it out. We would put them on timers also so they were not on all the time. Better than breaking ice every day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 27, 2020 Author Share Posted August 27, 2020 Another day......another dime. More progress......more setbacks. The magneto arrived today, works great, and while mechanically perfect, it looks just like it did when I removed it. Flushed the transmission today.....and was VERY glad I did. Looked like chunky monkey oil in it. We washed the transmission out three times with kerosene.......and got a bunch of nasty oil and sludge out of it. Took a peek inside, and all looks good. We are letting it sit for two more days before we drain the kerosene from it the last time and install the correct gear oil. We have the rear end draining over night, and it looked like black STP oil treatment coming out of it.....it was running out the drain hole in lumps and bumps. Both the transmission and rear end certainly had the factory oil in them. Delt with four striped out holes done 80 or 90 years ago.......another problem we only found just before we were going to reinstall the oil pan. It will go in first thing tomorrow. Working on fuel lines, fuel fittings, and an electric fuel pump for priming the vacuum engine tank. That will be figured out over the next few days. Gas tank has been cleaned three times.....and now we are almost ready to steam clean it like we did with the oil pan. Another dirty and nasty job in the 105 degree heat with unlimited humidity. Worked on the generator drive running from the water pump.....more work to do. Started working on the compression release linkage......another unexpected challenge. Continued flushing the engine with evapo rust. We only run the pump and heat during the day so we can check on it a few times while running errands. Spent time looking at all the chassis grease points......and getting depressed with what lays ahead. Selecting our battles before and after engine start up. Will be registering and getting plates late next week. Need to start on the windshield glass......doesn’t look like a piece of baklava.......more cleaning of parts, bolts, and hardware. Temporarily installed the vacuum tank. Need to deal with thr oil level glass and cap. Spent several hours on the phone ordering parts and supplies..........started looking for a few accessories. More later. Ed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 27, 2020 Author Share Posted August 27, 2020 (edited) Here is an updated drawing for the water pump shaft. Joe has it completely under control. I’m lucky to be working with such a talented machinest. Once the shaft is returned we will be just a few days away from start up. The first drive is still probably two or two and a half weeks away. We are working as fast as possible......for several reasons. One is this thread and all the positive comments and encouragement. I was looking again at the rear leaf springs, brakes, suspension, and other assorted components. For the third time I counted the rear leaf springs....with the fuel tank removed and a light in hand.......And got a new number..........the final correct count is 19 thin, tapered leaves in the rear. Got a good look at the rear snubbers for the first time today also. 103 years old and working fine. Still working out a schedule for things two and three weeks out. In the near future, we will take a brake for a day or two from the car.......sometimes one needs a change up. Edited August 27, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 28, 2020 Author Share Posted August 28, 2020 Additional things and stuff...... Called Don Axelrod today, the Sensei of all thing automotive head and tail light.........looking for another set of headlights. Thought I would get another pair and convert them to halogen or LED......figuring I would swap them out so when driving I would have great lights at both ends. Sent him photos of my lights, and a few of the car. I have been doing business with him since 1982, and we had a great chat. Finally cam around to sending him photos by email while we were talking. Upon opening them up he informed me......”never seen anything like them!” He complemented the style and design.......and had no clue as to who manufactured them. He did offer help with the lenses. So, like the water pump shaft, the lights are a one off application that isn’t known by the experts. Such is life. I will make a new light bar that attaches to the front bumper with quick clamps and quick connect wiring. I insist on having decent night driving lights, and will add two more rear detachable tail lights. I will also add a stop light function to the car for safety. I won’t bother with tun signals......seems almost no one uses them anymore ......... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tph479 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 What is the level for on the frame behind the drivers side front fender support? Radiator drain handle? I find the non skid tires comical. I bet there is not 6 square inches of actual rubber touching the road between the four tires combined, so not much traction at all. I’ll run a non skid tire over some oil tomorrow in the garage and report back on what I find. Keep up the good work on bringing this nickel era car to the masses. I’m in the process of restoring a 1920 nickel era car right now and have run into most of the challenges that you have so I feel your pain. At least you don’t have to take the hood hinges off and rivet new ones back on! Very similar in chassis design so I wonder who was copying who at the time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 28, 2020 Author Share Posted August 28, 2020 Tph.....not sure about the question regarding the level. Can you explain better? What platform are you working on? How about a photo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tph479 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 On 8/22/2020 at 5:58 PM, edinmass said: Here is a V-16 Cadillac air pump.......you can see the PTO drive.......very rare accessory.....I have seen five of them in fifty years......three on my cars. I use them all the time on tours........fun filling up a Packard tire with your Cadillac compressor........ Someone had fun bending the tube on top of the air pump! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 28, 2020 Author Share Posted August 28, 2020 (edited) Update on the evapo rust treatment. Third day of heated flushing......didn’t see much change till today. Suddenly the color of the evapo rust started to darken. Strange it took so long. Tomorrow I will reverse the direction of the flush. By Saturday we will start on the radiator. I ordered new hoses, clamps, and an in line coolant filter today. I have never installed or used a filter, but I saw the one on the restorationstuff.com And thought I would try it. They have a great site....and good people to work with. No new photos to go with the flushing update. Edited August 28, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history) 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tph479 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 There appears to be a handle about 2 inches behind the drivers side fender support arm on the frame . I’m working on a Packard that was a barn find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 28, 2020 Author Share Posted August 28, 2020 I have no clue.....will check it out tomorrow. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TerryCole Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 What a great read I've so enjoyed seeing your pictures just like mine Call anytime I have my motor all apart and going to reassemble next week Just line bore the mains and set the crankshaft 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
58L-Y8 Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 The NYC Salon image deserves a better look 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 11 hours ago, Tph479 said: What is the level for on the frame behind the drivers side front fender support? Radiator drain handle? I find the non skid tires comical. I bet there is not 6 square inches of actual rubber touching the road between the four tires combined, so not much traction at all. I’ll run a non skid tire over some oil tomorrow in the garage and report back on what I find. Keep up the good work on bringing this nickel era car to the masses. I’m in the process of restoring a 1920 nickel era car right now and have run into most of the challenges that you have so I feel your pain. At least you don’t have to take the hood hinges off and rivet new ones back on! Very similar in chassis design so I wonder who was copying who at the time! Well, it’s easier than that. Let’s say the car weighs 5000 pounds. Each tire is supporting a fourth, so 1250 pounds. If those are high pressure tires, say 60psi, then each tire has 1250/60=20 square inches of rubber tread contacting the floor. Remember the tread is the contact surface, the grooves (or in this case letter spaces) are not the tread. I mentioned to Ed early on that it was a good looking car, except for the headlights, which look like afterthoughts and don’t really enhance the front end. Ed your work on this is making me dizzy, wonder if Bob is following this ? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 28, 2020 Author Share Posted August 28, 2020 12 hours ago, Tph479 said: There appears to be a handle about 2 inches behind the drivers side fender support arm on the frame . I’m working on a Packard that was a barn find. The handle is a compression release that has a cable running to the mechanical linkage. I haven't been working underneath the car on that corner......it's my helpers spot. He knew what it was when I asked him. It was binding, but he got it freed up three days ago. Another one of those little ten thousand details to make a car sorted properly. We still have more work to do on the compression release. When it's all done and working, I will post photos. You have a good eye looking at dark, low detailed photos...........👍 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edinmass Posted August 28, 2020 Author Share Posted August 28, 2020 58L-Y8 Yes, I agree. Look at the speed car up top.......some would call it a speedster or boat tail. In the pre WW1 era, it's a speed car. Too bad we don't have better photos of it. Also, the coupe with a split windshield and a huge greenhouse. There is lots to discover in the photos if you blow them up and zoom in..............👍 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Walt G Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 All of us seasoned ( I mean oldish 🤨) restorers and the newbies, are getting a reminder of what it takes to get a long dormant car back on the road. 8 decades of crust and petrified fluids that have to be changed and cleaned out, "dry" needs to be lubricated etc. so when we do eventually bring a motor car like this to a display the people admiring it ( who think we are all millionaires) can look at it and comment " fixed it up nice". Many people who restore cars have no idea of the time and patience it takes to accomplish this . Thank you Ed from all of us for this step by step lesson in car revival and rehabilitation. Walt 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1912Staver Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 13 hours ago, edinmass said: Additional things and stuff...... Called Don Axelrod today, the Sensei of all thing automotive head and tail light.........looking for another set of headlights. Thought I would get another pair and convert them to halogen or LED......figuring I would swap them out so when driving I would have great lights at both ends. Sent him photos of my lights, and a few of the car. I have been doing business with him since 1982, and we had a great chat. Finally cam around to sending him photos by email while we were talking. Upon opening them up he informed me......”never seen anything like them!” He complemented the style and design.......and had no clue as to who manufactured them. He did offer help with the lenses. So, like the water pump shaft, the lights are a one off application that isn’t known by the experts. Such is life. I will make a new light bar that attaches to the front bumper with quick clamps and quick connect wiring. I insist on having decent night driving lights, and will add two more rear detachable tail lights. I will also add a stop light function to the car for safety. I won’t bother with tun signals......seems almost no one uses them anymore ......... I wonder if any of the White trucks with electric lights in this same era used these lights? 1918 was still very early for commercial vehicles to have electric lights. But they were an available option with most of the leading truck makers like White , Mack , Autocar and Packard. Greg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 13 hours ago, Tph479 said: I find the non skid tires comical. I bet there is not 6 square inches of actual rubber touching the road between the four tires combined, so not much traction at all. They actually do work - I would say it has to do with channeling water more so than effectiveness on a beautiful sunny day. Anyway, have logged 100's and 100's of AACA tour miles on them via a Kissel and an HCS and found them to be a lovely tire (even when ancient tires too as I bet in 1980's when we were doing that the tires were 30 years old even then and I think are still on each car even today). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 13 hours ago, edinmass said: ... I ordered new hoses, clamps, and an in line coolant filter today. I have never installed or used a filter, but I saw the one on the restorationstuff.com And thought I would try it. They have a great site....and good people to work with. .... I would say a 'Gano" filter from them or whatever they have is a good thing to do for a while - the worst case you could have would be some sort of consolidated sediment that does not clear up via evapo-rust and would come loose later in game and clog your radiator. I have seen such as 1941 Cadillacs that are full to the freeze plugs and that is a LOT of rust chips for anything to dissolve (aka, not sure how successful evapo-rust would be when you get into something really mucked-up via quantity/volume or compacted-ness). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 14 hours ago, edinmass said: Additional things and stuff...... Called Don Axelrod today, the Sensei of all thing automotive head and tail light.........looking for another set of headlights. Thought I would get another pair and convert them to halogen or LED......figuring I would swap them out so when driving I would have great lights at both ends. Sent him photos of my lights, and a few of the car. I have been doing business with him since 1982, and we had a great chat. Finally cam around to sending him photos by email while we were talking. Upon opening them up he informed me......”never seen anything like them!” He complemented the style and design.......and had no clue as to who manufactured them. He did offer help with the lenses. So, like the water pump shaft, the lights are a one off application that isn’t known by the experts. Such is life. I will make a new light bar that attaches to the front bumper with quick clamps and quick connect wiring. I insist on having decent night driving lights, and will add two more rear detachable tail lights. I will also add a stop light function to the car for safety. I won’t bother with tun signals......seems almost no one uses them anymore ......... In being the "Debbie downer" of the day - too many other fish to fry as to headlights. I made a lot of compromises on the RR PI as there were just not though hours in the day via what it took to revive a car that had been off the road so long - and really doing that right (I did get a few cosmetic projects in, but there were 5 months of 40 hour weeks just spent on the mechanics - in addition to the day job). You may want to consider getting your reflectors done via Bill Atwood of Uvira reflector coatings, checking grounds, and perhaps experiment with bulbs (but original bulbs in well grounded lights, and with great reflectors usually do the trick). If needed, an early style driving lamps/spot lights is nice - perhaps a nice drum (or drums) that mounts to the bar. I do 100% agree about spending unlimited hours on taillights - some very nice "period" lamps out there that say "stop" on the lens and the more the merrier (aka one on each side in addition to whatever it has for a light originally) - the world has changed. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
padgett Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 "I find the non skid tires comical. " compared to the balloon tires of the period were probably effective in rain and even more-so in mud/snow. Few streets were paved in those days and being "stuck in the mud" was a common event. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted August 28, 2020 Share Posted August 28, 2020 14 minutes ago, padgett said: "I find the non skid tires comical. " compared to the balloon tires of the period were probably effective in rain and even more-so in mud/snow. Few streets were paved in those days and being "stuck in the mud" was a common event. How can a tire (ex. balloon of period) that has just concentric rings for a tread pattern channel water ? That is why you hear me complaining so much about the tread pattern of Lester tires being squirrel-ly in the rain on the 1931 Cadillacs we had with them. While most tires of period really have no tread pattern to write home about - have not founfd one yet , the non-skids actually should achieve channeling (probably needed more non-skid wording though as still not a lot of surface area ). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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