The phone rang... and then the next car adventure starts

[edinmass]

Haven’t touched the top yet. My upholstery guy has been with me for forty years, and is retired.....except for friends. He lives in Florida in the winters, and will be down soon. He has seen the photos. We will work it out together. Also need to make some repairs only to the driver seat. We will take our time and work through it. I also have to make a call on the running board linoleum.......replace, or glue down the stuff that’s half missing. Not in a hurry to deal with either. I have plenty of time.

[wayne sheldon]

Is decently correct real gray linoleum available these days? For the past fifty years, it has been pretty hit and miss. Sometimes it has been readily available, other times, nothing available anywhere for love nor money. It has been many years since I needed any, so I haven't kept up with it. But I do have a reason for asking.

 

A related story. About forty years ago, I needed some for a vehicle I was restoring. Nothing was available at the time. The vehicle wasn't something that I was trying to make perfect, however, I was trying to make it look and be as correct as I reasonably could. What I did, looked really good! (NO, I am NOT recommending you do what I did!!!) I drove the thing on a few tours, and to a few shows (never for judging!). The funny thing was, that almost everywhere I went with it, I had people BEGGING me to tell them where I got the "gray linoleum"? Some of them wanted it for cars being restored for shows, expensive full Classics and high end horseless carriages. I really did not want to tell them, but tell them I did, quietly.

What I did. I found a remnant of modern synthetic linoleum at a garage sale, for a buck. It was off-white, with other colors mixed and splattered in, and the surface was smooth. I went to a hardware store, bought a couple cans of Tool Gray spray paint. I figured as it scuffed, I would just touch it up.. I used that thing for about five years, not a lot, but a fair amount, and never had to touch up the gray paint. It looked great! And when I had to tell people what it was, they were amazed by it.

But do not do that.

[edinmass]

Fortunately the exact replacement is available......and at a reasonable price. 👍

[John_Mereness]

[edinmass]

11 minutes ago, John_Mereness said:

 

Looks like a rush hour traffic jam at the Astor!

 

[edinmass]

Update: Non Car Related.

 

Went to my local Gin Mill for lunch while working on the White. Not too busy for a Saturday lunchtime. Then, in strolls in an “old” guy (older than me, but not too much.) with a stunning young lady on his arm.......mind you, not attractive......STUNNING! I called over the two waitresses that I know well.......and we were having a few laughs, and I commented it’s now “in season” which is how we refer to the winter tourist and snow birds. We got a great laugh out of it. Seems we may have been a bit too loud........a few minutes later he came over to my table and looked me up and down, In a friendly and pleasant way. Then he said.......”a Stutz hat and dirty fingernails...........obviously a mechanic!” I let out a hoot......he had a big smile on his face.............and I asked him “Just in from the Hamptons or Nantucket.” Now he just about bent over..........and said to me ......”very good guess!” ..............but not quite the Hamptons. I replied you don’t look like a Shelter Islander to me...........you from Green port? He almost passed out and said........”shelter island!” It was a fun exchange and we started talking cars............I would have much preferred to be introduced to his lunch companion! Fall is officially upon us! 

 

[SC38dls]

There are all varieties of eye candy, some stunning and others exceptionally rare like a Great White! 

Edited September 19, 2020 by SC38DLS (see edit history)

[padgett]

Ah yes, pop 5,000 in the summer and 35,000 in the winter.

Remember a Worth Ave. clothier saying to never judge a person by what they were wearing.

[edinmass]

13 minutes ago, SC38DLS said:

There are all varieties of eye candy, some stunning and others exceptionally rare like a Great White! 

 

I can assure you thr maintenance cost on the “Great White” is much less than the maintenance of that young lady..............and we shall not even refer to the “all in cost!” 🤔

[Guest]

When I was working the front parts counter at a Chev Olds dealership a dirty old man came in to the showroom, bib front overalls, rubber boots and cow dung.  All the older salesmen disappeared leaving a single novice salesman on duty.  The farmer saw the young salesman coming across the floor as he walked towards a 98 Convertible.  He kicked the whitewall tire leaving a smear on the tire and on the floor.  He inquired the cost of the Olds.  

the young salesman opened his book and told the farmer.  The next question was if it was pre serviced and ready to go.  The answer was yes.  He said I will take it, can you drive me up to get plates as he pulled a roll of bills from hi overall pocket.  Fifteen minutes later the salesman was driving the purchaser up to the license agent in his new 98 Olds convertible.  A few minutes later when the customer dropped the salesman off all the old timers were back looking chagrinned.

A decade later a similar story only in a Cadillac Dealership.  A well perfumed (you could smell her twenty feet away) lady came in, just one novice salesman in sight.  The Lady inquired if the Cadillac convertible on the floor was ready to go.  The answer was yes and she proceeded to pull crumpled bills out of her purse and paid in cash.  The salesman drove her to the local license agent and she dropped him off a few minutes later.  When he came in he didn't know whether to be elated at the sale or embarrassed to have been driving around with the neighbourhood "Madam".  The smelly (perfumed) money was kept in a separate plastic bag until it got to the bank.

You can not tell a book by it's cover.

[trimacar]

I used to be friends with a car dealer in Jackson Mississippi.  He told me of the Ferrari dealership there in the 1980's and 1990's, one day a cab pulled up out front, a young kid in his early 20's got out and walked in the door, old blue jeans and a dirty T-shirt.  He went right to the most expensive Ferrari in the showroom, walked around it, asked the salesman how much?  Salesman was of course was thinking he was wasting his time, butnamed a price.  Kid said OK, I'll be  back.

 

Kid goes out and gets back in cab, cab drives off.  Of course, salesman is thinking there's no way, plus it's one of those infamous "bebacks"  who salesmen hate and who never do come back.

 

Thirty minutes later, cab pulls back up, kid pays off cab and it drives away.  Kid walks in and pulls out a couple of wads of hundred dollar bills, plenty enough to cover buying the car, which he did.  Turned out he was from an extremely wealthy family, they'd told him to go buy a car, just take the money out of such and such account.

 

One never knows....

[padgett]

My main issue is that yonkers never get my jokes and few appreciate Svengoolie. Do usually pay cash for cars but last one was mainly doublesawbucks in bundles of 25.

[wayne sheldon]

10 hours ago, edinmass said:

Fortunately the exact replacement is available......and at a reasonable price. 👍

 

Glad to hear that. About fifteen years ago, I came across a very old roll of a remnant of original type gray linoleum. The stuff was almost as hard as a brick. However, on a hot day, I was able to partially straighten a bit of it. I don't remember the size, it may not be large enough for a long running board. And I do not know if it can be carefully heated and straightened or not. If a good option was not available to you there, I would have dug the roll out of storage and measured it. I don't know how I could have mailed it if it was large enough?

[wayne sheldon]

1 hour ago, Tinindian said:

When I was working the front parts counter at a Chev Olds dealership a dirty old man came in to the showroom, bib front overalls, rubber boots and cow dung.  All the older salesmen disappeared leaving a single novice salesman on duty.  The farmer saw the young salesman coming across the floor as he walked towards a 98 Convertible.  He kicked the whitewall tire leaving a smear on the tire and on the floor.  He inquired the cost of the Olds.  

the young salesman opened his book and told the farmer.  The next question was if it was pre serviced and ready to go.  The answer was yes.  He said I will take it, can you drive me up to get plates as he pulled a roll of bills from hi overall pocket.  Fifteen minutes later the salesman was driving the purchaser up to the license agent in his new 98 Olds convertible.  A few minutes later when the customer dropped the salesman off all the old timers were back looking chagrinned.

 

That almost could have been my grandfather about seventy years ago! There are a few family stories about him, and he was the farmer.

Short versions. After about fifteen years of incredible hardship, losing the farm due to the 1929 crash, sharecropping until he got another ranch of his own, followed by the war. After the war was over, he and my grandmother took the younger members of the family on a real vacation, the first ever for the family. Near Yellowstone park, the new Oldsmobile broke down. He limped it many miles into a small town in Idaho. Here this older man with four kids in a broken down car dusty from travel pulls into the Oldsmobile dealership and asks to get it repaired. He was wearing the bib overalls he always wore, and looked like the "Grapes of Wrath". Shop foreman is going "Uh-huh, yeah -- ." A few phone calls were made to his banker in Modesto California, and all of a sudden it was "Yes Sir, Mr King!" "Right away Sir, Mr King!"

Just a few years after that, after a particularly good harvest, he went into town on one of his rare "business" trips (grandma took care of most of the banking and other business). He knew what he needed and wanted. After a few hours of discing the orchards, he went into the local GMC dealer in his dirty bib overalls, covered in dust, hair a mess, and a hat with a hole in it. He walked over to a brand new pickup truck, and said "I'll take it." The salesman did not know him, and started talking about financing options so he says, "No, I'll just pay for it now." He reaches for his wallet, pulls out a single check that had probably been in there for a couple years, sat on riding tractors, sweat upon in many months of summer heat -- . Fills it out to the amount the salesman had said, hands it to him. The salesman says "I'll be right back" and goes to the office to call the bank. Again, "Right away Me King,!" "Anything else I can do for you Mr King?"

My grandparents were among the most wonderful people I ever knew. We spent many summers there when I was very young during the peach harvest. They taught so much about hard work, and decency. They were never pretentious. With a very large family (they had six kids!), and a long well deserved retirement, there wasn't much money for me to inherit. But I got things so much more valuable from them. Love, security, a sense of belonging to a good family. The memories of the peach harvests are priceless. I was driving full size tractors when I was six! After my grandfather died, other family got the more valuable tools and other things. I got a lot of the old stuff in the barn, including the blacksmithing tools that had belonged to him, and his father! The old worn out (belt driven) drill press is prominently displayed outside my small barn where I see it everyday. HIs blacksmith's leg-vise is mounted on a work bench and I use it often!

A lot of the best people on Earth wear bib overalls!

[edinmass]

4 hours ago, SC38DLS said:

There are all varieties of eye candy, some stunning and others exceptionally rare like a Great White! 

 
Taking them for a ride............one is much better than the other.......just saying. 👍

[George Cole]

Ed, did you make any progress with the DMV yesterday?

[edinmass]

12 minutes ago, George Cole said:

Ed, did you make any progress with the DMV yesterday?

Yes......will post later tonight.

[edinmass]

Update Title:

 

So, to recap. I had a clear Florida title reassigned to me, properly, with no issues. When I went to title the car, the state of Florida ran it through the 50 state database.....and I got locked out. There is another car in Minnasoda with the same five digit number. They were NOT suppose to run the car through the database, per state law and and federal regulations......but they did it anyway. The tax collector, who acts as the RMV in Florida had no clue on how to help me, tell me what the next step was, they just cut me loose. Isn’t that nice? “Go defecate in your chapeau.” So, after two hours on the computer, and four hours on the phone, as well as a few hours figuring out a strategy.............I finally found the correct department. I was well versed with the issue, knew what I needed from my end, and let them know it was their problem.......not mine. I politely demanded a title immediately, as I had everything in order, and they had no defense to keeping me from my paperwork because of a perceived problem, in a state 1500 miles away, on an unknown vehicle, titled fifteen years after mine was. Finally an inspector came out yesterday. While this could have gone fifty different ways, overall it went well. It was an older gentleman, and when he saw the car he smiled. It was obvious I wasn’t involved in any car theft ring, and all this was just a state generated SNAFU. After a few minutes, and having all sorts of paperwork, including a article on the history of vin numbers, we were moving forward well. Lots of small talk, explained to him my background, and thing got better quick. He kept asking me where do you buy parts for a car like this..........and gave him the old make what you need by throwing money at it. He was retired Navy, which was great, and a boiler man.....so we talked steam........and all was well. He actually contacted the seller using the national drivers license database........big brother has you covered, knows where you live, and how to find you..........and was content no devious shenanigans we’re going on. Took them a while to comprehend a car could sit for 80 years and not be in their system. So, late next week, I should have a title. With the corona I will probably have to wait three weeks for an appointment......but I plan on asking for a special exemption so I can walk in. We will see how that works. In the end, it was all BS...........I had to jump through hoops for NO reason. When done, I will make a few appointments with the elected officials to get them to straighten things out at the tax collectors office............the I have no clue bullshit answer is NOT acceptable. I should have been given a number to call. I will update you next week on the title. Ed

Edited September 20, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[John Bloom]

3 hours ago, wayne sheldon said:

 

A lot of the best people on Earth wear bib overalls!

A fraternity brother of mine loved to tell the story about his father helping a Chicago guy who broke down in his BMW in rural Indiana. They are farmers and farmed about 4,000 acres of ground they owned.  Indiana dirt is high yield stuff. You can do the math and figure out his wealth (today about 10,000/acre), He stopped to help the guy who knew nothing about his car, and instead of being grateful, questioned his input and advice. My friends dad told him that he was the majority owner in a BMW dealership in Chicago (he was as an investment) the car owner wasn’t buying it and treated him like a country hayseed. I’m sure he was in an old Ford truck wearing overalls looking pretty country.   He always laughed telling the story about the Chicago idiot who knew nothing about his car.

 

don’t let the packaging fool you. 

[John Bloom]

Ed, I don’t know if it has been asked of you, but have you been approached by any of the White Steam guys about your car?  Also what other Coach builders worked with White besides Rubay?

 

 

[edinmass]

No steam guys yet........gas and steam are two different fraternity’s. Holbrook, Rothschild, and a few other builders built on the White chassis and possibly a Brewster  .....but they are probably pre 1916. They seemed to be Intrested in the “Cleveland” part of the equation. Also, about half of the White gasoline cars from 1911 to 1918 were sold overseas. Seems the reputation of the sewing machine and related business tied them into foreign owners who were probably running the White Sewing Machines in their factories. Remember car sales numbers were in the double digits while trying to hit triple digits. Seems the surviving gas cars are very, very few. I have a good handle on them now, and several owners actually don’t know exactly what they have.....which is understandable when you figure out how the cars were built, sold, and marketed. The overlap is extensive. Example....for the last fifty years, everyone had the Yellowstone cars as 1917 GL series like mine, which is NOT correct. They were built in June or July of 1916, and they were not the dual valve series. The one surviving Yellowstone car hasn’t been properly identified by a car expert........but it’s a 4-45, a 45 horse power car......not the 16 Valve 72 horsepower model. Also, by the time the GL series came along, they were a  “special order” only series.....and the “regular” series 4-45 was still in production into late 1917 and possibly 1918. War production killed everything off. Cars were advertised in March of 1919 overseas and in South America.......slow sales and communication kept the small dealers hopes and ambitions alive. If you break down the cars into steam/gas categories..........2/3 of the surviving cars are the small 30 horsepower or less cars. The 4-40 & 4-45 cars are about a handful.........seven or less. The “big” series car like mine is a bit confused..........there is one early test or experimental car with a dual valve engine in it, a spare engine getting ready for a speedster project, and probably two factory built customs...........one is what appears to be a GLA short chassis dual valve but I have not confirmed the power plant yet and it’s possible it’s a 4-45, and then my car which is the big boy GL dual valve. Any way you shake the stick..........total White gasoline cars are few and far between.....maybe 12-15 total in the US. Unsubstantiated numbers outside the US probably will add another ten cars ........maybe.

 

PS- in 1915 White made a 6-60 special order only car.......I have not seen a photo of one yet.......and none survive that I know of. It would be interesting to see what turns up,in the way of cars and photos in the future.

Edited September 20, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[George Cole]

7 hours ago, edinmass said:

Update Title:

 

So, to recap. I had a clear Florida title reassigned to me, properly, with no issues. When I went to title the car, the state of Florida ran it through the 50 state database.....and I got locked out. There is another car in Minnasoda with the same five digit number. They were NOT suppose to run the car through the database, per state law and and federal regulations......but they did it anyway. The tax collector, who acts as the RMV in Florida had no clue on how to help me, tell me what the next step was, they just cut me loose. Isn’t that nice? “Go defecate in your chapeau.” So, after two hours on the computer, and four hours on the phone, as well as a few hours figuring out a strategy.............I finally found the correct department. I was well versed with the issue, knew what I needed from my end, and let them know it was their problem.......not mine. I politely demanded a title immediately, as I had everything in order, and they had no defense to keeping me from my paperwork because of a perceived problem, in a state 1500 miles away, on an unknown vehicle, titled fifteen years after mine was. Finally an inspector came out yesterday. While this could have gone fifty different ways, overall it went well. It was an older gentleman, and when he saw the car he smiled. It was obvious I wasn’t involved in any car theft ring, and all this was just a state generated SNAFU. After a few minutes, and having all sorts of paperwork, including a article on the history of vin numbers, we were moving forward well. Lots of small talk, explained to him my background, and thing got better quick. He kept asking me where do you buy parts for a car like this..........and gave him the old make what you need by throwing money at it. He was retired Navy, which was great, and a boiler man.....so we talked steam........and all was well. He actually contacted the seller using the national drivers license database........big brother has you covered, knows where you live, and how to find you..........and was content no devious shenanigans we’re going on. Took them a while to comprehend a car could sit for 80 years and not be in their system. So, late next week, I should have a title. With the corona I will probably have to wait three weeks for an appointment......but I plan on asking for a special exemption so I can walk in. We will see how that works. In the end, it was all BS...........I had to jump through hoops for NO reason. When done, I will make a few appointments with the elected officials to get them to straighten things out at the tax collectors office............the I have no clue bullshit answer is NOT acceptable. I should have been given a number to call. I will update you next week on the title. Ed

 

Ed, if you hadn't made any progress I was going to suggest you make an appointment at the Merritt Island DMV.  It's only 2 hours up the road, and you've wasted far more time than that with your multiple WPB DMV appointments already.  When I made my appointment last Wednesday, they had 51 appointments available within the next 2 days.  They were also completely clueless about duplicate serial numbers, but they listed to and accepted my explanation.  After double checking that the other car with the same serial number wasn't my car, they became very cooperative and issued me a title on the spot, with my original serial number.  Also, how did you get a clear FL title with a car you purchased in VA?

[edinmass]

The seller lived full time in Tampa for 50 years......and moved north. He still had the title from Florida......which was the best option. Made thing easier n my end. I expect it will be done by next week. 👍

 

If I have to, I’ll drive North for an office visit.........with luck it won’t be necessary.

[George Cole]

4 hours ago, edinmass said:

The seller lived full time in Tampa for 50 years......and moved north. He still had the title from Florida......which was the best option. Made thing easier n my end. I expect it will be done by next week. 👍

 

If I have to, I’ll drive North for an office visit.........with luck it won’t be necessary.

 

If things 'go south' on you again, here's the website to make an appointment at any one of the DMV offices in Brevard County.

 

https://www.ventusappointment.com/Booking/Booking/Index/NUTw0F6p

[yachtflame]

 

That’s the plan.....but it will probably be another 103 years before someone takes it apart again. Sometimes when I service a car, I will place a note somewhere it will only be found fifty or more years later........just a short story of what we did, and what it cost. I once took a WO Bentley apart and found a similar note from 1939. We replaced it, and added our own. I’m certain it’s still there, we placed it in 1989. Time sure passes quickly.

Edited Thur

 

ive restored over a dozen 1920’s - 1930’s Mahogany speedboats. If I was working on an original boat, I’d cut a piece of the original upholstery and add a few photos of the condition when I started along with a description of the work done on the restoration and the date finished. I’d seal these in double zip locks and have it placed inside the front seat when the new upholstery was done. So far one person has contacted me about the restoration on a 1929, 27’ Hacker triple that I did in 1979. The owner was delighted to have the info.

 When we restored our 1956, 65’ FEADSHIP motor yacht, we found several places in the boat, behind paneling, under seat benches and on the hull topside themselves where the original craftsmen wrote notes and signed their work. It was fun to see and have translated as it was in Dutch.

 

[edinmass]

A friend pulled the padded top off his 1933 Pierce Arrow coupe. The craftsman who put it on signed and dated the wood. We were able to look him up, and found he served in the Army in WWII. I’m sure we could have ran his name down and found living relatives.

[John_Mereness]

23 hours ago, padgett said:

Ah yes, pop 5,000 in the summer and 35,000 in the winter.

Remember a Worth Ave. clothier saying to never judge a person by what they were wearing.

I ran into one of the higher end Kroger's looking like s _ _ t one afternoon and had a very well intentioned woman give me the snub look and make a choice comment, to then have one of the neighbors see me and scream out John, I love your new Rolls Royce - her look was priceless. 

[edinmass]

I was driving the Phantom One York roadster with the top down over the causeway draw bridge to Palm Beach a few years ago. Then, something that could only happen in Palm Beach occurred.........I pulled up to the stop light for the bridge as it was opening, and up pulls a new Rolls convertible also with the top down. A beautiful lady driving, with her seven or eight year old son in the passenger seat next to her. He looked the York over a few times and said “neat car” which I responded that he too was driving in a “neat car also”, I explained the only difference between the two was 86 years difference. I then asked him to ask his mom if she had any Gray Pupon .......and I got a nice smile and wave. It’s one of my top ten car encounters in a Classic with a modern car.

Edited September 20, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[Robert G. Smits]

On 9/19/2020 at 12:45 PM, padgett said:

 

Remember a Worth Ave. clothier saying to never judge a person by what they were wearing.

On my first Glidden my wife and I were sitting next to a pleasant older gentleman (not as old as I am now) who wore bib overalls everyday on the tour.  While chit chatting I asked him how long it was going to take him to return to his home in Texas.  About two to three hours depending on the wind, he replied.  Oh, you are flying home and shipping your car I asked.  He replied, no I had my jet retrofitted so I can take it with me!!!

[C Carl]

23 minutes ago, Robert G. Smits said:

I had my jet retrofitted so I can take it with me!!!

 

Ah HA !!!! Now I know what I will spend my next tax break on ! Thank you so much for the great tip, Dr. Bob !  😏😉😎.     -    CC 

[padgett]

a: North, Middle (favorite for speed tests), or Southern Boulevard ?

b:  Is hard to find someone who understands "Grey Poupon" these days. Arm candy won't.

[edinmass]

Middle....... Okeechobee Boulevard...........

 

When people are driving a Bentley, and their windows down, I ask them........”Hey, do you have any of that gray pooped on mustard?” Than I say......it’s a Rolls right?

Edited September 21, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[edinmass]

On 9/17/2020 at 11:52 AM, PFindlay said:

 

What product are you using?

Here it is.........

[padgett]

In the '50s a Bentley was $300 less expensive than a Rolls (and both the easiest car to hotwire that I ever saw).

 

ps always though of the middle as the Royal Palm bridge. Could sit on the end and watch cars come off with all four disks bright red to get the speed down before entering the town.

[edinmass]

13 hours ago, edinmass said:

Middle....... Okeechobee Boulevard...........

 

When people are driving a Bentley, and their windows down, I ask them........”Hey, do you have any of that gray pooped on mustard?” Than I say......it’s a Rolls right?

 

 

First time I ever drove onto the island, in a 1932 Packard 904, I got pulled over.........they are very uptight on the roads there. The let me off...........but did play 10,000 questions. Usually I refuse to answer questions, and just take my citation, but this time, I didn't want them to tow the car if I got snotty. While over zealous in their questioning, I think they do it as a preventative measure....off islanders know how they are. Myself, I know the rules, and just work within them. We like the beaches there, and if you know the neighborhoods and specula parking spots, its a great place to spend time. We even take out dog to the beach..........and have never had a problem.

[John_Mereness]

12 hours ago, padgett said:

In the '50s a Bentley was $300 less expensive than a Rolls (and both the easiest car to hotwire that I ever saw).

 

ps always though of the middle as the Royal Palm bridge. Could sit on the end and watch cars come off with all four disks bright red to get the speed down before entering the town.

While I am no longer brushed up on the improvements, I do recall the 50's Bentley had such as dual exhaust and better manifolding/Carburation making the Bentley actually a better car via performance, but make no mistake about it - the cars no matter what their advancements were still built with a 1930's car mentality. 

[padgett]

What I remember was one in particular that had fastback styling and why have always liked that in a coupe.

 

 

 

[Dave Henderson]

On 9/18/2020 at 10:07 PM, edinmass said:

They used galvanized without asking me, but I have a few tricks up my sleeve, and it will be fine. It will install, and “disappear” and no one will ever know it was replaced. 

Get some copper sulfate and wipe down the surface with it.  When the surface darkens wash and dry it, it will be conditioned for painting.   Google it if you would like more details.

[edinmass]

Dave....done already...and painted, and installed.👍

 

Were kicking but.....should have the first attempt at sorting done Friday. Then we will do 100 miles with a note pad...........making notes of adjustments, noises, oil pressure, temperature, ect.

[HarryLime]

A 1957 Bentley Continental . My eternal love .