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Dynaflash8

CCCA CLASSIFICATION COMMITTEE

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The kid issue is pretty easy to understand.   Everybody that has had kids knows that for 20 years or so  your life revolves around them.  Completely.   Then as they hopefully launch you are afforded lots more freedom and you forget what it was like a few years earlier.   It is two different worlds.   Almost everybody planning events is in the post kids world.

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Benefits of AACA Membership.

29 minutes ago, alsancle said:

The kid issue is pretty easy to understand.   Everybody that has had kids knows that for 20 years or so  your life revolves around them.  Completely.   Then as they hopefully launch you are afforded lots more freedom and you forget what it was like a few years earlier.   It is two different worlds.   Almost everybody planning events is in the post kids world.

 

Then they can't stand around scratching their heads wondering why young people with families can't/won't/don't join the club or participate in their events.

 

I don't need them to do anything special to accommodate my kids, but don't give me lip service about being family-friendly and how you want young families to attend, and then when the friendly family shows up, say things like, "I didn't know we were going to have to deal with a couple of booger-factories on this tour--they better stay away from my car," or ask us if we would be willing to drive our own vehicle instead of riding on the motor coach (for which we paid $300/person because they "package" the day's events which includes a "mandatory" bus ride) because the other members are uncomfortable being around kids. Don't charge a 7-year-old the same $200 for lunch that you are charging an adult, because he's not going to eat it anyway. Fine, you don't know whether my kids are well-behaved or not (they are, for the most part--they're just regular kids), but making it seem like they're lepers with open sores isn't the best way to get them to want to be future members or for us to want to be an active part of the club.

 

Waiting around for empty-nesters to power the club into the future isn't a viable business plan.

 

Adding Packard 120s to the roster isn't going to change any of that.

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I met Matt's kids at the 2015 CCCA annual meeting in Savannah, Ga. . they were the most well behaved and courteous young people you would ever want to meet.

 

Most kids aren't aggressive especially when their parents are around and they know that the cars they are near are someone's prized possession.  They well understand from hearing how their parents and grandparents react to the cars at an event to show respect. Talk to the kids- ask them if they would like to sit on a running board or even ( if you dare!!!) behind the wheel. You will give them a lifelong memory of that event , your car, and you too. You were a kid once too - how did you react when someone was nice to you ?

A friend here collects 1965 Buicks, he has 3 sons who came over with him ( at my invite) for a visit, they are in their early teens or about to be. I asked them to sit in both my 1940 Roadmastrer conv sedan and 1930 Packard touring car in both front and back seats before they left. You should have seen the wide eyed reaction from not only the kids but from their Dad. Totally respectful and the smiles were on all of us.

Has anyone seen any younger person who was at a multi hour/day car event have a tantrum and absolutely ruin a car? 😬

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11 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

To QUOTE Matt Harwood:

 

QUOTEI certainly didn't mean to imply that I don't like the people--for the most part, the folks I've met have been pretty nice, especially in our local region where we have many close friends. But there's a tangible sense of detachment throughout the club, because most members are not working day-to-day jobs or figuring out their household budget to get through the month or wondering how they can get time off work for a tour or if the kids can afford to miss school. I get it, poor people problems.

 

I like Babinksy, too, and have a lot of faith in his thoughtfulness, reasonableness, and dedication to the hobby in general. But he's up against a lot of inertia, and the sad truth is that most of the members don't want kids around, don't want to stay in chain hotels, and don't want to make events more accessible, even if they can't or won't specifically verbalize any of those issues. UNQUOTE

 

MY TURN:  I've only had one interaction with Steve Babinsky, and that was when I was trying to get the 41 Buck 71 Roadmaster accepted.  I found him very helpful.  That said, I will admit I probably wouldn't spend $1000 to attend a Grand Classic, but I spend $1000 to go to Hershey and Philadelphia with AACA, so if I wasn't as old as I am I'd probably pull the car trailer to those far away places from Florida.  Finally, I've been on three tours with the South Florida Region.  Most of their members could, I'm sure, buy and sell me, but they happily stayed in chain motels and ate at farirly ordinary restaurants.  So, if they do it here, I see no reason they wouldn't do it anywhere.  Yes, I was worried I wouldn't fit in, so I restored a pretty good car so as not to be embarrassed, but in retrospect I think now that probably wasn't necessary.  And, I don't think the fact that I'm a past National President of AACA gained me one inch in making these new friends.  I think these people would have happily been our friend if I was just Joe Blow from Kokomo.

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I grew up in the CCCA.....literally. Joined as a teenager, with my father telling me not to bother. He said I wouldn’t fit in, and had no business hanging around with them. I found the opposite. The first two grand classic meets I attended at the Henry Ford Hotel while I was a freshmen and sophomore in college were fine. I slept in my 35 dollar Ford Interceptor unmarked police car with 300,000 miles on it. Went to the truck stop to shower and shave. Didn’t need to worry about wrinkled shirts or suits, as I put all my clothes in several paper grocery bags. Found a nice quiet spot on the north east corner of the parking lot that was secluded and not visited by the security golf cart. That would have been back in the mid 80’s. Everyone was very kind to me, and I quickly  made friends with several well known collectors like Tom Lester, David Holls, and Dick and Linda Kuhn. I was such a country hick, I drove up to Tom Monahan’s house and asked to see the Type 41 Bugatti Royal. He let me in, and left me to lock the door behind myself as he and his wire were leaving for the afternoon. Imagine trying that today. I wasn’t very bright back then.........and not sure if much has changed. But I always found older collectors regardless of wealth or social status willing to share cars with people who were sincerely intrested. I have photos of me sitting in the Type 41, taken by my Koadak 115 camera on a time delay shutter. 

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13 minutes ago, edinmass said:

I grew up in the CCCA.....literally. Joined as a teenager, with my father telling me not to bother. He said I wouldn’t fit in, and had no business hanging around with them. I found the opposite. The first two grand classic meets I attended at the Henry Ford Hotel while I was a freshmen and sophomore in college were fine. I slept in my 35 dollar Ford Interceptor unmarked police car with 300,000 miles on it. Went to the truck stop to shower and shave. Didn’t need to worry about wrinkled shirts or suits, as I put all my clothes in several paper grocery bags. Found a nice quiet spot on the north east corner of the parking lot that was secluded and not visited by the security golf cart. That would have been back in the mid 80’s. Everyone was very kind to me, and I quickly  made friends with several well known collectors like Tom Lester, David Holls, and Dick and Linda Kuhn. I was such a country hick, I drove up to Tom Monahan’s house and asked to see the Type 41 Bugatti Royal. He let me in, and left me to lock the door behind myself as he and his wire were leaving for the afternoon. Imagine trying that today. I wasn’t very bright back then.........and not sure if much has changed. But I always found older collectors regardless of wealth or social status willing to share cars with people who were sincerely intrested. I have photos of me sitting in the Type 41, taken by my Koadak 115 camera on a time delay shutter. 

 

Did you ever return the Elephant ornament?

 

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8 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

Did you ever return the Elephant ornament?

 


Never occurred to me to take it. I know where one of the originals is, as I was admiring it last fall on a garage tour. I was pondering if all the earned income I have made over the past fifty years would be enough to purchase it. I would expect the answer is no.

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22 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

Then they can't stand around scratching their heads wondering why young people with families can't/won't/don't join the club or participate in their events.

 

Waiting around for empty-nesters to power the club into the future isn't a viable business plan.

 

Adding Packard 120s to the roster isn't going to change any of that.

My parents will tell you the Kids always came to AACA and CCCA events - I was the CCCA person starting at like age 7 (in 1973) - My parents are Sports Car people and they started with CCCA via my interest.  Of course it helped to have relatives with CCCA cars and live in a community that was a hub for car activities (example: within a block from our house was a 1933 Buick 90 7 Passenger Sedan , 1928 Packard European bodied Convertible Victoria,  a 1936 Packard Standard Eight Convertible Victoria, and a 1931 Marmon V-16 Sedan).  

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4 minutes ago, John_Mereness said:

My parents will tell you the Kids always came to AACA and CCCA events - I was the CCCA person starting at like age 7 (in 1973) - My parents are Sports Car people and they started with CCCA via my interest.  Of course it helped to have relatives with CCCA cars and live in a community that was a hub for car activities (example: within a block from our house was a 1933 Buick 90 7 Passenger Sedan , 1928 Packard European bodied Convertible Victoria,  a 1936 Packard Standard Eight Convertible Victoria, and a 1931 Marmon V-16 Sedan).  

 

It has changed, John. It isn't the club or the hobby you and I enjoyed in the '70s and '80s with our parents. I recall doing all those same great events with all the same great cars and everyone driving the cars was the age I am today (50), everyone had kids, everyone worked to make it fun, and it was wonderful. The reason I love touring as much as I do is because we had wonderful times between, say, 1978 and 1986, before I could even drive. I still love waking up early before the day's events start and going out to the parking lot to see all the sleeping cars covered in dew. I love listening to all of them coming to life as we get ready to move out. I love catching a glimpse of another car just around the next bend as if I was discovering something new.
 

Today all those people who made those tours so special have gotten older and no longer wish to do the events like they used to. They say they love kids and want them to take part in the hobby and enjoy the cars, but when kids show up, well, it doesn't seem to work that way. They want it to be easy and catered and organized by someone else so all they have to do is show up and write a check.

 

It isn't the club (or the hobby) we remember when we were young. Not anymore. And unless you have kids that you've tried to bring to a national CCCA event, you're missing my point entirely. I don't particularly care if kids aren't welcome in the CCCA or at their events, I'd just like them to stop pretending that they are. That's better than letting us think they are welcome then treating us like assholes when we show up while simultaneously charging us huge amounts of money just to make us feel like assholes.

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22 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

It has changed, John. It isn't the club or the hobby you and I enjoyed in the '70s and '80s with our parents. I recall doing all those same great events with all the same great cars and everyone driving the cars was the age I am today (50), everyone had kids, everyone worked to make it fun, and it was wonderful. The reason I love touring as much as I do is because we had wonderful times between, say, 1978 and 1986, before I could even drive. I still love waking up early before the day's events start and going out to the parking lot to see all the sleeping cars covered in dew. I love listening to all of them coming to life as we get ready to move out. I love catching a glimpse of another car just around the next bend as if I was discovering something new.
 

Today all those people who made those tours so special have gotten older and no longer wish to do the events like they used to. They say they love kids and want them to take part in the hobby and enjoy the cars, but when kids show up, well, it doesn't seem to work that way. They want it to be easy and catered and organized by someone else so all they have to do is show up and write a check.

 

It isn't the club (or the hobby) we remember when we were young. Not anymore. And unless you have kids that you've tried to bring to a national CCCA event, you're missing my point entirely. I don't particularly care if kids aren't welcome in the CCCA or at their events, I'd just like them to stop pretending that they are. That's better than letting us think they are welcome then treating us like assholes when we show up while simultaneously charging us huge amounts of money just to make us feel like assholes.

My 100 year old grandmother referred to them as "the old people." 

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Just a vignette that might be illuminating.  When a Caravan was held here in Western New York about a dozen years ago, shortly thereafter I had a visit with another local CCCA member who also happens to be a retired new car dealer.  I expressed surprise that when I had gone to view the Classic participating in the tour, that his was absent.  He told me that when he added up the total cost to participate with his wife for the five days, it would come to between $6000-$7000, that he could not afford or justify that.  My conclusion was that if a retired new car dealer who had been in that business for thirty years and done very well financially didn't feel he could afford it, I was deluding myself that any meaningful participation on my part was impossible at my level.     

 

The publications are first rate, I've learned a great deal from them over the decades.  They fed my historian's interests perfectly, including many of Walt's Coachwork features.    I'll just look for piles of back issues at Hershey now to satisfy that urge...

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So when was the last time that the "list" was expanded ?  Last I heard Buick 80 series were added, but so few 80 series Buick vehicles survived I assume it does not make much of a difference. If the club can expand the list can they also delete vehicles that were added in the past?  

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They added the 70 Series Buicks two or three years ago thanks to the efforts of our friend Earl Beauchamp. That added a significant number of cars. Before that, it was the 1915-1924 expansion that happened perhaps 5-6 years ago. So it has expanded several times recently where a great many cars were added. Yet the number of members continues to decline. 


More cars doesn't solve their problem. 

 

As far a removing cars, I guess they can do whatever they want, although kicking people out of a club who otherwise didn't do anything wrong doesn't really do anything to make people want to be a part of that club. Why join if the people in charge might decide your car doesn't measure up after all and kick you out?

 

 

Edited by Matt Harwood (see edit history)
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