Fossil

Wood spoked wheels. How to straighten?

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Was on the way to a VA appointment this afternoon cruising along at 45 mph when I came to a stop sign 6 miles from home.  The vehicle behind me honked and the driver walked up to me.  He says" I don't know if you can feel it or not but it looks like your right rear Wheel is wobbling and might be coming loose".  I thanked him and got out to check it but everything appeared to be tight. Called the wife and she brought another car and drove the DeSoto (1930) home.  As she drove off I notice that it looks like the rim is bent.  Is there a recommended way of straightening these wheels?  I've got a couple of ideas but thought maybe it would be a good idea to ask first.  Is there a better forum to place this question? 

Thanks for insight you can provide. 

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Benefits of AACA Membership.

Best to raise the rear, spin the wheel and determine if it is the wheel or the outer band that is bent and go from there. If it is the wheel with spokes and steel felloe out of round, it is a different fix than if it is the outer band. It appears to me that the outer band may not be seated correctly under the lug at the 1 o'clock position.

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Hi John:

That photo was just for reference. The subject wheel is on the other side of the car. Guess I'm going to have to take it apart and check things out. will be a good time to see how your bolts work. 

Does the inside ring come off of the rim? I know that one of the ones on the front is pretty banged up. 

Might be going to wish I had wire spoked rims on here. Hate to do it as I've had as many questions about the wheels as the rest of the car. 

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Jack up and index edge to see if wheel or the tire/ rim is bend or mounted crooked .

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10 hours ago, Fossil said:

That photo was just for reference.

But John is correct, that rim is bent badly and ruined by somebody in the past that did not use the rim spreader to change the tire.  If it's moving a bit on each revolution, it can wear the edges of the steel fellow band, then even a good rim won't fit tightly.

 

10 hours ago, Fossil said:

Does the inside ring come off of the rim? I know that one of the ones on the front is pretty banged up.

I assume you mean the steel fellow band that the tips of spokes go into?  Yes it is removable, but the center hub needs to be unbolted and then hub gets pressed out of the spokes roots, then mark and remove each spoke.

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I'll have to look at the wheel in the photo and see if that's a shadow or the rim is not mounted correctly. 

Thank you for your replies. 

 

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4 minutes ago, Fossil said:

I'll have to look at the wheel in the photo and see if that's a shadow or the rim is not mounted correctly. 

Thank you for your replies. 

 

It's bent pretty good, I circled the spot where the split rim joint is.  You can see how the left side is raised up above the right side of the  joint.

wheel.jpg.e794a8a7e5e5c0d9f081c1024ad63a89.jpg

 

These are made of very spring like steel.  It would be quite the job to remove that rim from the tire and then try to straighten it with common tools..

When rims are good, the joint at the two ends lines up perfectly even if you lift one edge up and then release it.

 

On many rims there will be some sort of bracket inside to help keep it aligned when new.  That could be ruined as well.

 

wheel.jpg

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Posted (edited)

Just went through my instruction book for the car and there is nothing in there on the correct procedure on changing a tire. I guess everyone knew how to work with these rims back then. Going to have to research that.  

Are these what's know as "clincher Rims" Or split ring?

Edited by Fossil (see edit history)

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Posted (edited)

Go on you-tube . Watch vids of model A's being done . Same type rims .  Your rim may just be shifted out of position . Let air out and remove four clamps . Or vice- versa .

PS do not bounce without locking tab in place . Had mine bounce open and pop tube and ruin underwear . LOL.

Correction ; Later model T's . With de-mountable rim I believed there called . THXs F&J

Edited by ArticiferTom
PS .correction (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, Fossil said:

Are these what's know as "clincher Rims" Or split ring?

A Clincher rim is very much older.  It was a rim with no split.  The "clinch" is in the way the edges of that rim were rolled IN.  Those rolled in edges formed a gripping edge shaped like the top half of the letter C.   The clincher tire had a deep groove in the bead that that shape hooks into. 

 

Yours are a "split rim", but I'm sure web searching will also bring up split rings, or "lock ring" types of car and truck wheels.  There is also one truck-only Budd-type "split RIM" that is two equal halves, and has been banned as too deadly when rusted/worn......those were from the 50s & 60s

 

the one tool that was used on yours by a tire shop back then is called a "rim spreader".   See pic below:  If you can see what is starting to happen there?  The upper spreader hook is actually pulling down the left side of the split joint.  Then that makes the rim be a smaller diameter, to allow the tire to come off much easier than the old clincher rim. 

 

And pulling straight down, instead of "outwards, towards you", does not bend one end sideways or crooked.  That likely might happen with big pry bars.  Then that same tool cranked the opposite way, will push that half back up perfectly aligned, after you have changed the tube or tire.

 

rimspreader.jpg.9164f6f4eefdfeb6ac5f5330d3fefdee.jpg

 

Many bent rims when stripped completely down, and laying on the floor, will look like a coiled snake raising it's head.  That would be a tough fix except for a guy that really knows how to bend spring steel metal cold, and has the tools.

 

 

2 minutes ago, ArticiferTom said:

Go on you-tube . Watch vids of model A's being done . Same type rims .

Model A Fords? they do not have split rims, did you mean later Model T's?.  Early T's were clincher, late T's were not.

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2 hours ago, ArticiferTom said:

PS do not bounce without locking tab in place . Had mine bounce open and pop tube and ruin underwear . LOL.

That does not paint a pretty picture. :scared-eek::laughing-rolling:

It's funny but I was always under the impression that those 4 bolts held the ring on. Take the bolts out and the ring came off and then the tire was easily removed so the tube could be patched without taking the wheel off of the car. 

I thank you for your replies. Just going to have to go out there and take it apart. Looks like I better find a spreader. Just checked the list of tools that would come with the car when new and no spreader. Why is it the owners manuals and tools are always missing out of these newer cars when you buy the????? :scratchead:

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You do not need spreader on my rims . It is build in to the hinged lock , I talk about . There was a tool to flip it open , OVER CENTER , to spread it enough to service . Many times these levers are broke or missing had to repair all of mine ,  but spare . I keep that one locked with a tie wire to prevent show spectator from opening accidentally . If you need pic , can do .

  Start taking it off the wheel you'll see whats need

14 minutes ago, Fossil said:

 

That does not paint a pretty picture. :scared-eek::laughing-rolling:

 

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Those tab do not exist on   .  Look at one title Changing Tire 1929 Nash . More like ours .

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I just got out here with the car jacked up the right rear wheel blocked front tires and ran it in first gear. The part of the rim with wooden spokes appears run pretty true. It looks like it's the outer ring that the tire is mounted on and the tire that's not running true. And Tom you're right this does not have the little rings in it I just noticed that myself. I'm going to pull a tire off and I'll let you know what I find out.

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One of the four bolts that holds the rim on to the center of the wheel was evidently way over tightened at some time. I imagine using carriage bolts instead of the proper Fasteners might have had something to do with it. To my way of thinking they should have originally installed spacers inside of this spoke rim to keep this from happening. I'm going to have to spread this apart and weld up the crack in the back rim. Here you can see in the picture 1596064657157-631230711.thumb.jpg.36fafbedfd40b613b6eb73ce8367acdd.jpg what I'm talking about.

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Yes ,another common issue . Over tightening . Probably when air gun came out . There was no spacer . The carriage bolts are custom . i have a set of 19" DeSoto wheels for sale if needed . There is thread of my change .

 

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Posted (edited)

Are your DeSoto Wheels wire or

 Wood spoked? Can they be interchanged?

You two guys were very lucky with that wheel. I'm really glad neither of you was hurt.

Edited by Fossil (see edit history)

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There wood . Are yours 19 " .

9 minutes ago, Fossil said:

Are your DeSoto Wheels wire or

 Wood spoked? Can they be interchanged?

 

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Here you can see the wheel in the press. Used a shoe made for breaking beads on garden tractor tires. Went beyond straight on the back as it would pull back in when the weld  cools. This going better than hoped for.

20200729_192439.thumb.jpg.3a40692dfe3f19df46a498eda8f42751.jpg20200729_192401.thumb.jpg.72b4582d9a4676ea9e1343f932e55e61.jpg

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, ArticiferTom said:

There wood . Are yours 19 " .

 

Yes they are 19".  I won't charge you extra if you want to include a new set of tires. 😄

This is also going to give me the opportunity to put the brake drum in the lathe and check it for true. I know one is out of round. 

Looking forward to reinstalling things and see if it's better.

Using self locking nuts on those four bolts seems like good idea.   

Edited by Fossil (see edit history)

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Looks good .  I posted wheels on De Soto site as a bump with price reduction . Yes I have a set of dry rot tires to give away . Good enough for work ing on rollers .

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1 minute ago, ArticiferTom said:

Yes I have a set of dry rot tires to give away . Good enough for work ing on rollers .

 

Please don't trouble yourself. Mine have probably 90% and are getting replaced. They are square and are starting to show light weather cracking in the sidewalls. They would be great for someones parade car but not on the highway where I'm driving. 

4 minutes ago, ArticiferTom said:

Looks good .  I posted wheels on De Soto site as a bump with price reduction .

 

I'll take a look but am really hoping to straighten mine and use them. Surprisingly the Fellow is made from fairly soft metal and easily straightened.

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The drums on these can not be cut to much if at all . They do flex and can be shaped some what . They been known to flex during braking when thinned . I have an extra one with some rivet scars in it , i would part with .

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11 hours ago, ArticiferTom said:

I have an extra one with some rivet scars in it , i would part with .

 

Tom have you got a secret junkyard your not telling us about??????????  😉

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