strange things

[pesd]

Hi Gang,

Yesterday I decided to change my oil on my 16V, no problem, 15 minutes, Mobile1 10/30 , Mobile1 Filter (first time, I know Hemi Dude likes Wixx, not available around me that day) checked under for leaks after and no leaks but I notice a small rounded bolt jammed between the crank pulley and block.

 

I cant ignore that, tried to push it out with screw driver, vise grips and a hammer, no go. I wind up loosening the belts and taking the pulley off . Little bolt was similar to the ones that hold the spark plug wire guides on the valve cover. Power steering belt looked a little cracked, replaced that the decided that I have never used the AC I was going to leave that belt off, also the tensioner pulley assembly, tightened everything up, done underneath. I go up top and think that I dont need the electrical connection to the AC unit, unplug that and tuck it away.

 

Took her out for a quick run, noticed no speedometer or odometer, a little higher oil pressure just above the half way mark, typically right at the half way. The engine sounds and feels different, almost like a higher compression, approaching a stop a lot more popping and whirring from the exhaust ( it always did that a little), in the upper gears it seems like more power, 1st-3rd slightly hesitant. 

 

pulled over and plugged in the AC electrical connection, didn't seem to make a difference, still plugged in. did a little home work last night and thought I might have knocked the speed sensor wire but that wouldn't explain a few other things. Took it out today and noticed the tach is now jumping around not smooth, at idle it reads 11k rpm were it  typically runs 7 or 8 and it sounds like 7 or 8 and it  idle's smoothly and is running cool as it always has.

 

So, I got home let her cool down a little, pulled the positive terminal for 10 minutes, took her out again, now speedo & odo work, Tach still wonky, engine still sounds like it wants to be on the track (maybe not a bad thing but worrisome).

 

All this started with a simple oil change, four qts and the dipstick reads almost full( normal?).

 

Any thoughts, should I worry?

Thanks,

               Peter D.

 

 

 

 

 

[Reaper1]

We gotta figure out where that bolt came from!

 

It almost sounds like it might have made the timing belt skip, which would explain the sounding and running different.

 

Oil pressure might just be due to the filter itself, but the sensors our cars use are notorious for being inaccurate. If you are concerned, I would hook up a mechanical gauge to verify.

 

The dancing instruments makes me think there's a bad ground someplace. Check to make sure the ground from the right side engine mount to the car chassis is present. That also serves to reduce static from the belts which *can* cause issues.

 

Sometimes a dancing tach is caused by a bad HEP. A dying one won't throw a CEL or code, but it will cause issues. Also check the reluctor. They are known to come loose from the distributor shaft and that can cause timing and running issues.

 

I know you cleared the codes, but is it storing any? How about vacuum leaks. Really easy to knock vacuum lines around and accidentally break them with how old they are.

 

Just thoughts.

[pesd]

Thanks very much Reaper,

 

 I'm relatively confident its not the timing belt, I dont think I jumped a tooth, It's just slightly off.

I took her out today and went up a winding hill that's usually no problem in third and today it was a struggle.

I sat in the car and just listened, Idle fine but a slight surge about every 10 -15 seconds, no one else would notice, so minimal but there.

 

I'm really thinking distributor more so than vacuum.  I believe the distributor is original ( though car only has 18000k )

I read the post "A Series of Unfortunate Problems" you were part of and it sounds about right but not as severe.

 

I wish getting to the distributor and connecting wires didn't sound so difficult, but it is what it it is. I did read your recent post about removing the AC unit to access that area easier, or do you think to evaluate the wires and really check the whole distributor out I need remove the fuel rail and intake? I'm sort of hoping not, it looks like a PITA. I'm thinking electrical instead of vacuum initially just because of the Tach jumping, then check vacuum then grounds.

 

I'm not really concerned about the little bolt, it looked like something to secure a panel or accessory, not mechanical but I had to go after it before it possibly created more issues. Possibly dropped down from the top by some rookie ( maybe me).

 

Tomorrow I'll check for codes, should have done that earlier, but not CEL was showing.

 

Thanks again,

            Peter

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pesd]

I should have said distributor and grounds then vacuum if I really think its electrical.

[Reaper1]

Nah, I don't think you have to pull the whole intake to get to the distributor. Just move that A/C compressor out of the way. I think you mentioned the A/C in inop due to no charge? If so, just take the blasted thing out for now. MUCH easier to work! Just remember a TON of your vacuum lines run right by the A/C lines and all, so be careful!

 

Just as a precaution, do your basic diagnosis too. Compression, check the plugs, inspect the wires, make sure it's not blowing bubbles in the coolant. Oh...make sure nothing is blocking the baro solenoid opening!

[pesd]

Thanks,

thinking about if i want to just replace the distributor and plugs wires while Im into it, it is throwing a code 24 and just to rule things out like the "HEP" (sorry Hemi) and reluctor and plate that Hemi mentioned is held on by two plastic rivets that some times fails, I would replace those small items and not the whole distributor but would not what parts to order and I assume they would come with a re manufactured distributor from Cardone 303943,  I would get the plug wires from Rick at RDI performance and a cap and rotor.

and the hopefully not worry about servicing that area tight for a while. besides pulling the AC I might drop the radiator fan to get a little more room, it looks like it might come out easy enough.

 

[Reaper1]

Code 24 looks like TPS. Strange it would just "go bad", but it's electronic, old, and in a harsh environment. If there's a dead spot or bad connection it would certainly cause surging and running bad, etc.

[Hemi Dude]

19 hours ago, pesd said:

Thanks,

thinking about if i want to just replace the distributor and plugs wires while Im into it, it is throwing a code 24 and just to rule things out like the "HEP" (sorry Hemi) and reluctor and plate that Hemi mentioned is held on by two plastic rivets that some times fails, I would replace those small items and not the whole distributor but would not what parts to order and I assume they would come with a re manufactured distributor from Cardone 303943,  I would get the plug wires from Rick at RDI performance and a cap and rotor.

and the hopefully not worry about servicing that area tight for a while. besides pulling the AC I might drop the radiator fan to get a little more room, it looks like it might come out easy enough.

 

In my opinion, it is not necessary to replace a distributor. If you care to replace the HEP, that is much smarter. Replacing the ignition wires with a set from Rick Diogo would be smart. Replacing the distributor cap and rotor is unnecessary!

Don't make this a “federal case”   Just a little advice from a 50 year + Chrysler mechanic.

[pesd]

Thanks Hemi,

 No "Federal Case" involved, I always welcome your advice and respect your many years of expertise. Where would I source a new Hall effect pickup assembly?

[pesd]

I should have looked before I asked, Rock auto offers 1, does it look like this might fit?

 

[Hemi Dude]

YES! I just checked Rock Auto, that is the correct part number and part.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Hemi Dude
Added information (see edit history)

[Reaper1]

Compare it VERY closely to your stock one. Make sure that the pick-up coils are in the EXACT spots as the factory ones in relation to the mounting bolts and the index slot. There have been reports of some aftermarket ones not being made correctly and those pick-ups not being oriented right.

[pesd]

Thanks for the heads up, these look identical, what a PITA to get the old one out, wound up removing the radiator and yes I was careful with the vacuum lines.

 

[Reaper1]

I am very surprised you had to remove the radiator. Did you take the A/C compressor out of the way? I am going to be doing the plug wires on mine eventually.

[pesd]

Sorry for the no response recently, no power internet or cell service for the past six days, put in the new TPS yesterday, filled with coolant took her out for a test, drove a quarter mile sounds smooth, tach not jumping but then noticed the temp gauge at 3/4.

back to the driveway and let her cool down a bit added more coolant with the bleeder valve on the thermostat open while idling till coolant comes out of the bleeder as per the manual. As it was idling tach was about 8k rpms, where it typically is and idling smoothly.

Drive #2 now temp is jumping around when not jumping at the half way mark, its always been around the first or second mark, tach is still off slightly jumpy not as bad as it was. When Idling it shows 13k RPM but Idle smooth like 8k , car seems to be running smoother, back to normal no more popping and back firing. No codes are showing, going to look at a few other things later today like the grounds you suggested I check.

BTW I didn't remove the AC compressor in this case because the TPS is on the other side of the engine. THX

[Hemi Dude]

Try moving the temperature slide lever, on the dash, all the way to the right next trip on the road to check the engine coolant temperature. If the temperature gauge becomes steady, next return the slide lever back to where you normally keep it. Keep an eye on ‘temp’ gauge from time to time. If the temp remains normal, you should be OK.
You should be aware that the gauge will always fluctuate some depending on vehicle speed and load. 
When you let the engine idle for a time, after it is warmed up, does the cooling fan come on?

 

Report back with your findings.

[pesd]

Hi Hemi,

Sorry for slow responce, internet went down again last night and today

Dash slider seems to make no difference, except making me really hot driving around with the heaheat on when it's 95 degrees out. running half way to three quarter mark, has always run cool, the fan is coming on,  maybe hook up a temp gauge in the engine compartment, where? The tach is back to jumping around and the engine is back to rumbling and popping slightly off.

My next target is the hall effect plate you mentioned but how would that effect the engine temp?  Thx

[Hemi Dude]

2 hours ago, pesd said:

My next target is the hall effect plate you mentioned but how would that effect the engine temp?  

The hall plate would have nothing to do with engine coolant temperature. 

When you removed the radiator, did you do anything with the heater hoses to the water control valve under the battery tray?

The 2.2L engines are not built with a by-pass hose like the slant 6, the 2 old V8 engines, therefore the hose that feeds the heater core is also the bypass hose when the valve redirects the water flow.

A lot of people are not aware of this which will cause ERRATIC temp gauge fluctuation.

[pesd]

I believe I did disconnect one hose ( maybe 1") that went to the bottom of that valve, but I'm sure I reconnected it, I moved it to get a little more access to the larger 3" lower radiator hose.

could I have damaged or disconnected something by accident?  THX

[Hemi Dude]

23 minutes ago, pesd said:

I believe I did disconnect one hose ( maybe 1") that went to the bottom of that valve, but I'm sure I reconnected it, I moved it to get a little more access to the larger 3" lower radiator hose.

could I have damaged or disconnected something by accident?  THX

The possibility looms strong, judging by your new erratic temperature readings.

The important thing is to be able for full time flow out of and back into the engine, whether you direct coolant to heater core or not. This diagram may help.

Through heater core.

Bypassing heater core.

[Reaper1]

It's possible the bypass valve is mucked up. They are junky to begin with IMO, add 30 years of time to it...they fail...often.

 

It's possible you might have collapsed an old hose internally, too. I have seen radiator hoses do that.

[pesd]

I'll get under it and take a look around this weekend also I remember seeing a vacuum line probably going to that bypass valve that was sandwiched between two other hoses that might need some correcting, thanks

[Reaper1]

Yes, that vacuum line goes to your HVAC controls and it can cause a vacuum leak, odd HVAC operation, and for that valve to not work right.