Professor Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 Good Morning Forum, The convertible top on my 1936 Chrysler Airstream is dry rotted, having not been replaced for at least 50 years. I need to have a new top made, and while I suspect I can have one made locally (assuming I can find a quality shop), I was hoping that there is an online supplier of antique convertible tops where I could just order a top, or, send them my top to reproduce. Here in rural SE North Carolina, quality craftsmen can be hard to locate. I searched online but came up empty. I cannot help but wonder if my particular top is not being reproduced... especially since I have a C8 Chrysler, which has an extended wheelbase and perhaps an extended top length. If someone has an excellent shop that can reproduce factory quality tops, I would be happy to ship my top out of state. I appreciate any guidance. Warm Regards, Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 (edited) Try this fellow - if you have a really good looking top that truly fits it may be an option as your would then have a decent pattern, but otherwise I do not know what to advise. http://www.aro2000.com/ Putt Georgi Ltd BOX 499, 145 ORANGE AVENUE WALDEN, NY 12586 845-778-1314 / 845-778-3968 FAX email us Edited July 28, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted July 27, 2020 Author Share Posted July 27, 2020 Thanks so much! I will call them first thing tomorrow. Now all I need to do is figure out what the original top was made from. Off to Google-Land! 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 (edited) Haartz cloth - of which is reproduced and also its modern synthetic equivalent of Stayfast (which really cannot be told apart). Shoot a "contact us" inquiry to Eric Haartz over at Haartz Co. https://www.haartz.com/contact Edited July 27, 2020 by John_Mereness (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zepher Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 Also, if trimacar doesn't see this thread try shooting him a PM and see what he has to say. David is always happy to help out forum members. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 (edited) Well, first, I doubt there’s anyone making a “kit” top for this car. Second, using an old, tired, shrunken, stretched top for a “pattern” is very risky. Odds are it won’t fit correctly if done in that manner. I’d never even consider having an old top shipped to me Off the car to duplicate. I use an old top as a “reference”, a totally different thing, patterning nothing from the old top. Tops such as these must be made on the car and fit to the car if you want something that has a quality look to it. Haartz cloth has gotten to be the topping of choice for most 1916 - 1941 cars. Many 1915 and earlier cars use a replicated Pantasote, though some are still fine with Haartz/Stayfast. Don’t know what other help I can be, but contact me if I can. Edited July 28, 2020 by trimacar (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 Trimacar is correct - if you want a show top then you will have to have one made. if you want a top, then fellow I mentioned may be only choice unless some club member is an upholsterer and has one or there is a pattern via such as Dan Kanter from other supplier. I was surprised though to find this via http://www.aro2000.com/ Some of his tops are pretty nice - a friend likes to use his tops as he likes the seams heat sealed to prevent water seepage and they have worked together to perfect a couple dozen patterns. use to be several companies in the business - my 1935 Auburn has a kit top on it from 40 years ago and the 35 Packard Twelve Convertible Sedan does too (and that one is probably going on 60 years old) YEAR For info and prices - click on your model below ¯ ¯ ¯ ¯ ¯ ¯ Many satisfied customers send photos of their finished projects. To view, click on the link below PATTERN BOW 1926-35 OLDER MODELS AVAILABLE - INQUIRE 1935 CONV.COUPE INCL. SEPARATE SIDE FLAPS 301 1936 CONV.COUPE INCL. SEPARATE SIDE FLAPS 302 12 1/2 1937 CONV.COUPE INCL. SEPARATE SIDE FLAPS 303 1937-38 IMPERIAL/CONV.COUPE INCL. SEPARATE SIDE FLAPS VIEW HERE 304 1940 CLUB COUPE 306 1940 WINDSOR CLUB 307 1941 WINDSOR, NEW YORKER 308 1942 CLUB COUPE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
60FlatTop Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 (edited) This shop is in Knoxville, Tennessee: http://www.proautointeriors.com/ All I know is that he did the work in this video. In think have watched the full video at least 4 or 5 times and find it fascinating. If I had a car of a high level I would start there. Now that I brought it up I think I will watch it tonight instead of the news. Edited July 28, 2020 by 60FlatTop (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 40 minutes ago, 60FlatTop said: This shop is in Knoxville, Tennessee: http://www.proautointeriors.com/ All I know is that he did the work in this video. In think have watched the full video at least 4 or 5 times and find it fascinating. If I had a car of a high level I would start there. Now that I brought it up I think I will watch it tonight instead of the news. I watched first 20 minutes - they are pretty correct as to the why a custom and to the how - a 30's car though has a few more challenges via such as "hidden" snaps matched to age/abuse (but every convertible seems to have that though). He did some glue work on top pads and I have seen my upholster hand sew and I see my upholster often use felt in the pads verses foam. And, I always enjoy my visits to Miami Corp for supplies. That said, I have the right hand doing cars that need perfection and tops will maybe be put down on occasion (or never) and on the left hand have cars I tend to not seek perfection as I put then down for the summer except for highway trips and 100 degree scorcher or days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 I just bought T-14 Mossy Green with Tan/brown Wexford Lining and I believe it is Haartz most expensive canvas at $90.00 yard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted July 28, 2020 Author Share Posted July 28, 2020 I am working with Putt now. He indicates that he has factory patterns for my top, and he uses Haartz canvas. I am going to give him a shot based on several recommendations. Putt also thinks he may have the factory rear glass; my glass is delaminating sufficiently to be difficult to see through in spots. 7 hours ago, John_Mereness said: Trimacar is correct - if you want a show top then you will have to have one made. if you want a top, then fellow I mentioned may be only choice unless some club member is an upholsterer and has one or there is a pattern via such as Dan Kanter from other supplier. I was surprised though to find this via http://www.aro2000.com/ Some of his tops are pretty nice - a friend likes to use his tops as he likes the seams heat sealed to prevent water seepage and they have worked together to perfect a couple dozen patterns. use to be several companies in the business - my 1935 Auburn has a kit top on it from 40 years ago and the 35 Packard Twelve Convertible Sedan does too (and that one is probably going on 60 years old) YEAR For info and prices - click on your model below ¯ ¯ ¯ ¯ ¯ ¯ Many satisfied customers send photos of their finished projects. To view, click on the link below PATTERN BOW 1926-35 OLDER MODELS AVAILABLE - INQUIRE 1935 CONV.COUPE INCL. SEPARATE SIDE FLAPS 301 1936 CONV.COUPE INCL. SEPARATE SIDE FLAPS 302 12 1/2 1937 CONV.COUPE INCL. SEPARATE SIDE FLAPS 303 1937-38 IMPERIAL/CONV.COUPE INCL. SEPARATE SIDE FLAPS VIEW HERE 304 1940 CLUB COUPE 306 1940 WINDSOR CLUB 307 1941 WINDSOR, NEW YORKER 308 1942 CLUB COUPE 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 Wow, I’m impressed and will eat some of my words....had no idea a kit was available for this car....has to be less expensive than a custom top....good stuff.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericmac Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 Andrew Larder in Homer, MI also does some fabulous work. Not sure where you are located but Andrew may be worth a call. His dad did this car for me. (269) 986-2055 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Professor Posted July 29, 2020 Author Share Posted July 29, 2020 (edited) I watched the top making video.... that is an insane amount of work. I have installed a couple of pre-fab tops, and getting them right is a fair amount of work, but actually making the top and installing it? Crazy. Edited July 29, 2020 by Joe West (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 13 hours ago, trimacar said: Wow, I’m impressed and will eat some of my words....had no idea a kit was available for this car....has to be less expensive than a custom top....good stuff.... I never expect perfection from a kit top, but sometimes they are better than not as pattern has been perfected and they tend to be a reasonably priced solution for "that is nice" matched to good for putting up and down and destroying (as you know they are never the same with you put them up and down). When I had the top done on the 1934 Cadillac V-16 it was like 12K for the top and 1.5K for the boot - not a top that you would want to put up and down, though it did fold nice should someone have wanted to. It was a lot of "fun" for the upholster to deal with its unique pads, radio antenna that circled the car in the pads, some of the way it was stitched, chrome bead weld/welt, wood framed backglass, and .... The 1939 LaSalle Bohman & Schwartz top was equally as painful to do (when labor was cheap and craftsman were available. He still talks to me which is good Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 I agree, for a functional top that can help a convertible used as it's meant to be, it's worth a wrinkle or crease or tow to use a kit top. I was just shocked it was available. I'm sure you had a Pebble Beach level trimmer working on your Cadillac, and that's the price you pay. I wouldn't attempt to do Pebble Beach type work, although some of the cars with my work have won AACA and CCCA national awards. I did an early 40's Packard convertible sedan, and the owner expressly told me that he'd never put the top down. I told him that was good, because whoever made the top bows and irons didn't allow clearance, and while it might "pile" it would never go down all the way correctly. Now he's saying he wants a boot, which he didn't want then....but how do you make a custom fit boot without putting the top down? You don't, so fun times ahead! That Cadillac top sounds like a challenge. The most challenging top I've done was a Packard Darrin, there's no front bow, just a couple of slabs of metal that click into top of windshield. Hard to fit a top when there's nothing up front to support it, but I figured it out....it was a car from the collection of the late Bill Pettit, I did a Cord phaeton for him and he liked it so brought the Darrin....don't know where the car is now...It, too, had some features that were difficult to figure out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Mereness Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 29 minutes ago, trimacar said: I did an early 40's Packard convertible sedan, and the owner expressly told me that he'd never put the top down. I told him that was good, because whoever made the top bows and irons didn't allow clearance, and while it might "pile" it would never go down all the way correctly. Now he's saying he wants a boot, which he didn't want then....but how do you make a custom fit boot without putting the top down? You don't, so fun times ahead! That Cadillac top sounds like a challenge. The most challenging top I've done was a Packard Darrin, there's no front bow, just a couple of slabs of metal that click into top of windshield. Hard to fit a top when there's nothing up front to support it, but I figured it out....it was a car from the collection of the late Bill Pettit, I did a Cord phaeton for him and he liked it so brought the Darrin....don't know where the car is now...It, too, had some features that were difficult to figure out... Well, you could duplicate an original boot, but it will not fit - it will get him through judging though - or duplicate an original and add some extra material into the pattern - better than nothing. Example of issue: There are not many original top boots for 34-36 Auburn Phaetons, but I have had one in my hand and photographed ok (still wish I had taken more and/or had an original boot) and I also have a paper pattern from a deconstructed one. The fellow with the one I had in my hand faithfully duplicated and then asked me to try it at ACD Festival as I had my top down and he never want to put his down for any reason - well, unfortunately, it was a couple inches too small in all directions (really complicated boot too) - I felt bad for him and still feel bad for him. I probably have less pads/and padding in my car too and my top folds as flat as they ever did - it will be a challenge for him. The LaSalle is near the same as the Packard, but the front bow is 2 layers of metal with the top materials wedged between them and equally then sew to it/around it (it was a serious two days of hand stitching) - the response from upholster was "You have to be Sh--ing me" among a few other expletives - I did have the front bow remade in stainless though (original had rusted and left stains on fabric and that is never going to happen on my watch). So, the LaSalle grabbed on to the windshield between the top frame and the glass (super easy to break the glass to via design) and then at the B piller/B bow there were two tension mechanisms and then at rear there were two fabric straps that pulled the C bow toward the trunk. And around the edge like the Darrin was a snap every two inches. As mentioned, at least the upholsterer still speaks to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trimacar Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 Glad you're still on good terms with the trimmer! I've done one job that after it was done I told the customer if anyone else wanted the same thing done, tell them not to call me....it was so bad I've blocked it from my memory. The hidden snaps were common on Packards, the Darrin and the '41 convertible sedan had them, as does my '38 convertible coupe. I couldn't find any, so ended up making my own, stainless plate with snap welded to it, works great. Actually, a metal working friend of mine made them, if I remember they were $5 each and I'm not sure if he'd make more.... The boot story is one clear reason not to use anything original as a "pattern", but only as a "reference". On the judging, I think I made a bag for the '41 (the non top down car), put a little binding on some fabric that would show and snaps to close the bag, so if judges ask about a boot he could say "it's in that bag"....I think that trick worked... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 Many years ago when I could not afford to tell a client NO I had a fellow with a '32 Packard who to show it in AACA and CCCA competition and needed a boot. Not wanting to spend the money to have one made he had us take a piece of top material, sew a beading around part of it, install a few snaps, fold it and put it in a plastic bag. And he got away with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Restorer32 Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 We did a '21 Silver Ghost. The Sharp Brothers did the top and interior. They made us swear that we would not put the top down or touch the canvas sidemount covers until the car's show career was over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TTR Posted July 30, 2020 Share Posted July 30, 2020 (edited) "All I know is that he did the work in this video. In think have watched the full video at least 4 or 5 times and find it fascinating. If I had a car of a high level I would start there. Now that I brought it up I think I will watch it tonight instead of the news." Just out of curiosity, what's the point of making these kinds of videos ? Merely entertainment ? All I see is average results, but nothing that can't be achieved with properly installed pre-made top. This era tops on full-size American cars are among easiest to fabricate* or replace**, but for some reason 8-9 out of 10 seem to not fit very well. Also, why not compare apples to apples, i.e. have an experienced trimmer install a new pre-made top (to best of his/her abilities) and have same (or equivalently experienced) person fabricate (to best of his/her abilities) a custom from scratch AND do both on same car or at least on two identical cars ? And then have them both "judged" by an experienced, unbiased third party... */** Been there, done both myself. Have also paid P.B. quality professionals/shops to fail miserably on both approaches, more than once. Oh, and there are top manufacturers who have incorrect patterns for some of their listings, but after 35+ years advising/recommending corrections, nothing has changed and I constantly see cars or their pictures with incorrect (i.e. ill-fitting) tops on them... ... and what would really impress me if I saw one of those (incorrect) tops installed the way it could be mistaken for being correct. LOL ! Edited July 30, 2020 by TTR (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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