1932 Nash selling at Auburn

[edinmass]

BOAT - definition: Break out another thousand! (BOAT)

BOAT - a hole in the water you throw hundred dollar bills in.......non stop.

BOAT- Second best day Of ownership is the day you buy it, Best day of ownership is the day you sell it.

 

 

Gee........sounds like we are not alone in our hobbies! 
 

The Nash is very neat............but even under the best of circumstances it’s going to be a challenge not to be endlessly buried in it. I don’t mind taking hits on toys, as long as the damage is kept to a minimum. The Nash is going to be two handfuls, if your lucky, and one bad turn and it’s off to the cleaners. In the aggregate I am probably even in my buying and selling, which is much better than average. The time, hotels, travel, truck and trailer.....I don’t count. I have only done on car personally with no regards to budget, but I do try to come out even. Unfortunately I don’t think the Nash even at much lower numbers that are being tossed around, would come out anywhere but underwater...........and it won’t be in the shallows.

[alsancle]

Ed, quit with the cold water.  One of us may be dumb enough to jump in.  At least it is rare and attractive.

[edinmass]

12 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Ed, quit with the cold water.  One of us may be dumb enough to jump in.  At least it is rare and attractive.

Don’t you already have a brown and tan sinkhole with wheels that needs a month of Sunday’s for me to get sorted? You don’t need another right now............unless Pam says it’s OK? Should I call her and ask?🤔

[alsancle]

3 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Don’t you already have a brown and tan sinkhole with wheels that needs a month of Sunday’s for me to get sorted? You don’t need another right now............unless Pam says it’s OK? Should I call her and ask?🤔

 

She is all in now that I found a cheaper way to maintain the cars.  

 

You need to admit this Nash at 35k is a worthwhile endeavor for somebody to sink their time in to.   Guys blow tons of money on mass produced stuff that they show up to a cruise night with and there are 3 others the same color.

 

This is cool and the chances of parking next to another one at a show are about equal to you buying dinner.

[alsancle]

I'm thinking the ole "twist the shaft to make the handle straight" trick might not work on this car.   Btw,  do those wheels come apart?

 

[edinmass]

You buy the Nash and I am  certain you will park next to all the other survivors before I buy you dinner.......and for the record, it’s going to be a happy meal! And not the high end cheese burger........just the plain Jane burger, and I keep the prize!

[edinmass]

6 minutes ago, alsancle said:

I'm thinking the ole "twist the shaft to make the handle straight" trick might not work on this car.   Btw,  do those wheels come apart?

 

 

Unique KelseyHayes drop center with beauty rings missing. I made them 10 years ago with John...........add 1500 to the parts cost list. Plus buffing. Sandblast and powder coat wheels 2500. Left rear door is looking like a potato chip that’s why the handle and latch have issues......wood? Look at the exhaust pipe.......another 2500 to get it up to 2 1/4 inch correct with hangers. Tires and tubes. Shall I make a complete list? Don’t forget to add fifty bucks to throw the trunk in the dumpster! If you post engine compartment photos, I can keep the list going.

 

 

Edited July 11, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[F&J]

29 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Ed, quit with the cold water.  One of us may be dumb enough to jump in.  At least it is rare and attractive.

No Balls... may get me banned for saying it, but that's what I'd say to you in person.  (because I'd like to see it get appreciated for what it really is...an old survivor.)

 

 

Ed's been billing the Pebble/Amelia crowd for decades, heck we can fix some stuff it needs for dirt cheap.  Store it at my place for a "wife hiding purchase" ......um......a year free storage!,,,, but leave the keys and a full tank....

 

... cause I want to cruise Watch Hill, R.I. trolling for a rich widow that owns a beach house.  (no lie, my son seriously said I should do that a few years back)

 

hey, you pro's......did you notice that one original trumpet is the wrong size yet?  I might have one.

 

.

[alsancle]

34 minutes ago, F&J said:

No Balls... may get me banned for saying it, but that's what I'd say to you in person.  (because I'd like to see it get appreciated for what it really is...an old survivor.)

 

 

Ed's been billing the Pebble/Amelia crowd for decades, heck we can fix some stuff it needs for dirt cheap.  Store it at my place for a "wife hiding purchase" ......um......a year free storage!,,,, but leave the keys and a full tank....

 

... cause I want to cruise Watch Hill, R.I. trolling for a rich widow that owns a beach house.  (no lie, my son seriously said I should do that a few years back)

 

hey, you pro's......did you notice that one original trumpet is the wrong size yet?  I might have one.

 

.

 

Frank,   I'll buy and let you have it for a year if you will sort it for me.   I'll pay for the parts and beer.   This is my new restoration model,  cause the traditional one requires working three jobs.

 

[alsancle]

Eddy,

 

How much to get rid of that horn?

 

[edinmass]

Quick and dirty, 75 bucks. The right way, 3500.

[alsancle]

This 32 Ambassador Victoria sold for 84K back in 2014.    The 2nd one sold for 60k back at the JEM sale (I was gonna go and I didn't!)  back in 2003.   I'm thinking they are the same car.

 

 

[alsancle]

[F&J]

42 minutes ago, alsancle said:

I'll pay for the parts and beer.

I had to retire, I'm honestly used up... and trying to finish mine.  A couple of years back, I would have been beyond stoked for the opportunity to work on a big Nash....or just sit behind the wheel and ponder the past history of that car

 

I have no clue on Auction expectations at the moment we are in, but my gut thinks it might go high.  Hope I'm wrong.

 

 

41 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Eddy,

 

How much to get rid of that horn?

Not that one or the mate to it on the other side....look at the factory Nash trumpets  "one's bigger and hangs lower"  LOL (😈 shame on me)

[alsancle]

Ambassador on the 142" wheelbase.

 

[alsancle]

Advanced Eight Rumble Seat coupe.

 

[F&J]

Careful! Your'e are working yourself up!  .....MAYBE I SHOULD ADD SOME PICS ...LOL

[John_Mereness]

7 hours ago, alsancle said:

You need to admit this Nash at 35k is a worthwhile endeavor for somebody to sink their time in to.  

Solid condition 4 door convertibles (and of rarity too) do not sell for low numbers like 35K unless it is a total fluke and a half thing via audience/timing or .... of sale = hard to even get a late 30's Buick Special 4 door convertible (no offense to anyone with one) at that kind of money.  That is what the problem is - the car will go for really strong money and that then leaves no room to do what it needs to have done (ex. like figure out how it is not tan/brown/orange or off-pink/brown/orange).

 

Horn is fine (very period touch) - second trunk on the rack is not fine (just too much going on back there.

[John_Mereness]

4 hours ago, alsancle said:

Ambassador on the 142" wheelbase.

 

Neat car - but, I would probably have a really dark wheel (perhaps Midnight Blue or even Black) on it so fast it would make your head spin.

[John_Mereness]

9 hours ago, edinmass said:

BOAT - definition: Break out another thousand! (BOAT)

BOAT - a hole in the water you throw hundred dollar bills in.......non stop.

BOAT- Second best day Of ownership is the day you buy it, Best day of ownership is the day you sell it.

I thought that was the story of Horses ?

[John_Mereness]

7 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

Unique KelseyHayes drop center with beauty rings missing. I made them 10 years ago with John...........add 1500 to the parts cost list. Plus buffing. Sandblast and powder coat wheels 2500. Left rear door is looking like a potato chip that’s why the handle and latch have issues......wood? Look at the exhaust pipe.......another 2500 to get it up to 2 1/4 inch correct with hangers. Tires and tubes. Shall I make a complete list? Don’t forget to add fifty bucks to throw the trunk in the dumpster! If you post engine compartment photos, I can keep the list going.

 

 

Realistically, I suspect the car has a lot of die cast chrome trim (same as many other 30's cars you and I have restored) and as you know (though other people may not), it tends to deteriorate over time and especially after replated - I suspect the door handle to be one of 10 plus parts with issues.  Equally, the 1,500 + 2,500, + 2500, + + + + are all things that you and I do in the first week of owning something - it is a lot of money to spend in a couple of days and potentially just the tip of the iceberg.  Sidenote:  Good point on the exhaust - the tailpipe diameter looks pretty small in diameter for any decent horsepower 30's car - I would get back to the car potentially needing a complete mechanical going through/rebuilding (good news though is after the mechanics are gone through I suspect Nash gave you a pretty good driving product). 

[motoringicons]

The Walter Miller/RM Auburn Auction Nash in question is from the Detroit area. I know the car well. It was one of the last cars Miller purchased just before his death. The prior owner used it regularly before his untimely death and it was sold very shortly thereafter to Miller. It is a good, honest and solid old car. If anyone has any questions about it, let me know. 

Edited July 13, 2020 by motoringicons (see edit history)

[K8096]

AJ, if you buy that Nash I have some authentic Nash Gabriel shock absorber fluid you can use.   

 

 

[alsancle]

9 hours ago, K8096 said:

AJ, if you buy that Nash I have some authentic Nash Gabriel shock absorber fluid you can use.   

 

 

 

Jason,  that is totally cool!!!   I almost it better than the car.

 

 

[alsancle]

On 7/11/2020 at 9:00 PM, F&J said:

I had to retire, I'm honestly used up... and trying to finish mine.  A couple of years back, I would have been beyond stoked for the opportunity to work on a big Nash....or just sit behind the wheel and ponder the past history of that car

 

I have no clue on Auction expectations at the moment we are in, but my gut thinks it might go high.  Hope I'm wrong.

 

 

Not that one or the mate to it on the other side....look at the factory Nash trumpets  "one's bigger and hangs lower"  LOL (😈 shame on me)

 

Frank,   at least a dozen times a year there is a car like this that I will have my eyes on thinking a decent deal may happen.    It NEVER does.   I seem to have good taste in cars (if not friends) and that taste seems to be shared by a lot of guys.

 

My expectations are that it sells for close to 50k all in, or maybe more.   The Corona thing is a wild card,  but I can tell you that RM's all online Palm Beach auction at the height of the lock down did very well.

 

 

[F&J]

22 minutes ago, alsancle said:

I seem to have good taste in cars (if not friends) and that taste seems to be shared by a lot of guys.

 

My expectations are that it sells for close to 50k all in, or maybe more.

I tend to get too wordy, but I've put a lot of thinking in on this one car. 

 

I've hinted before that a few well funded buyers almost need somebody else to tell them what is high class....kind of like needing a Fifth Ave Clothier get you looking like you are a person with style.  

 

 If a person who is primarily into the pinnacle of styling of the snazzy upscale brands of the Depression's peak,  starts to notice  32 second series Nash by either finally seeing a smaller 80 series 32 in person, or owning one,....... that normally leads to the desire to hopefully day-dream of a chance at a 90 series conv,

 

I am pretty sure Walter Miller had a smaller eight 32 second series sedan before this one, and I can't help to assume he was also smitten by then wanting the top of the marque in 32 Nash?    I look in the Nash Club members-only lists of 32 owners, and there is strong evidence of people really getting hooked on only collecting multiple versions of 32 Nash 8 cyl models. (and the 33 8's). 

 

That type of person would definitely be very interested in this auction....low visibility guys who aren't known to attend typical mixed make sales.  On a smaller push of value, being it was owned by a noticeable long term respectable name in the car world, that will bump the bids.

 

I might have to eat crow, but I think the price will be far higher than what has been guessed so far. 

 

 

.

 

[John_Mereness]

3 hours ago, alsancle said:

My expectations are that it sells for close to 50k all in, or maybe more.   The Corona thing is a wild card,  but I can tell you that RM's all online Palm Beach auction at the height of the lock down did very well.

 

 

Correct (and also correct toward the statement of "or maybe more") !!!

[edinmass]

 

I understand F&J's logic, and know strong off brand cars that tend to be good drivers and have decent lines have a shadow cult following. The car may be solid, as I take Motoringicons word for it. But to get it cleaned up, correct, and sorted, it's going to be expensive. It would chew through 40-50k quickly. I was factoring in the pandemic, the particular car, and guessing that latent buyers are tighter with their money than the whales. Also, I think the venue is the worst possible place to sell that car...........Auburn Fall Auction? That would have been one of my last choices. When Walter got sick, he went on a buying spree...........and in my humble opinion overpaid for every car he bought that I was familiar with......I also understand why he did it. So....that's my thoughts on why the car won't do well. Now that it's in writing, it will break 100k!

[F&J]

Lunch break, so I looked up current and non current Nash Member Roster for 1093's

 

There is only one "current" member owner, and it's in Europe with a collector who has premium 32 1st and 2nd series cars, some are quite rare.

 

then searching all, past or present, there are 6 listed, but only 4 have serial numbers to know they are not simply the same car changing hands over time.  The Roster does not list what year the person bought it.

 

The 6 includes the Europe one, Dave Mitchell is also listed as an owner, but his membership dates (start and end) is when he was sourcing many needed parts for a clients 1093?

 

Then the only 2 that have no serial number listed, shows Walter Miller,  and the other one as being in the club from 2000 to 2017, and from Michigan, which might be the one referred to by Motoringicons a few posts back?.  

 

We all know that not every single one was ever in the Nash Club, but I just wanted to suggest that if you "just had to have one", you cannot set a price estimate against a recent Auburn Auction sale like that maroon Auburn talked about on this thread.... It's simply irrelevant.  

 

BTW, I had earlier posted about an eastern USA 32 collector on the Nash Current Roster, and I mistakenly suggested he also had one,   I just looked at his detailed listing of sixteen 1932 Nash 8's,..... however, he has two 1083 shorter WB conv sedans, one super rare 1081 conv coupe, as well as a fairly rare 1071conv coupe, and... four second series Ambassadors!   You don't suppose he might have just a tad bit of interest in Miller's?

 

.

 

 

[edinmass]

It’s always a random crap shoot. Age, timing, health issues, pandemic issues, location, color of thr car, condition of the car. Let’s be brutally honest. We all like  it and think it’s great, but in reality it can’t win a class at Pebble. Not too many whales buying cars that can’t get a guaranteed first in class. An at home talented restoration on thr car would be 225k, and in a top shop, 600 all day. The car Dave did and recently sold brought half the current restoration cost, and that didn’t include the car. Since  the sale was recent, one would expect anyone with a quick need would grab it. It ended up at a friends collection, a perfect home. That said, how many people with deep pockets want an obscure Nash. My particular interest is my father drove one during the war......and he met my grandfather buying axels for it in the junkyard in Springfield Massachusetts. (1943) He met my mother years later.......so a Nash is kind of a fun thing to toss around. And, for the record, my father called it a POS compared to the six Packard twelves he bought after the war. (For 75-120 bucks.) 

 

PS- if I’m gonna dump 600-700 k into a car, I think I would buy a correct, open Model J instead. The Nash is cool, but it isn’t anywhere near THAT cool.

Edited July 15, 2020 by edinmass (see edit history)

[alsancle]

Dear Mr. Wet Blanket,   If the car sells for under 50k all in,  and does run well,  and you can spend 10-15k on minor cosmetics,  then isn't that a pretty cool car for relatively short money?   There was one car that got the Pebble treatment (two if you count the Lester car).  I don't think that is gonna happen again.

[edinmass]

17 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Dear Mr. Wet Blanket,   If the car sells for under 50k all in,  and does run well,  and you can spend 10-15k on minor cosmetics,  then isn't that a pretty cool car for relatively short money?   There was one car that got the Pebble treatment (two if you count the Lester car).  I don't think that is gonna happen again.

 

 

My numbers on the mechanicals are correct....and didn't include cosmetics. I thinkI would leave most of the cosmetics alone........and just do a wheel color change. I looked closely at that car.............remember, it's like a REO, nothing is readily available. And I see three times more than you do looking at it. I still like it, and recommend you purchase it, and send it to me to straighten out...........it's high up enough on my cool list to work on, but not quite as high as our current project. And to quote you from above......"if it does run well" , would you like to place a wager? 

[F&J]

5 hours ago, edinmass said:

The car Dave did and recently sold brought half the current restoration cost, and that didn’t include the car. Since  the sale was recent, one would expect anyone with a quick need would grab it.

As I don't follow any markets, I did not know this, so I would agree on what I underlined above.

 

I also was thinking about it more this afternoon.  Maybe a guy who really wants a very nice one, but not way too nice to use,  might pass on the Miller one and wait for a cosmetically better survivor?

 

I give up thinking about what it might bring. 

[edinmass]

10 minutes ago, F&J said:

As I don't follow any markets, I did not know this, so I would agree on what I underlined above.

 

I also was thinking about it more this afternoon.  Maybe a guy who really wants a very nice one, but not way too nice to use,  might pass on the Miller one and wait for a cosmetically better survivor?

 

I give up thinking about what it might bring. 

I try and figure out what else you can buy for the same money. The V-16 that sold in January was a great turn key car, from a world class collection, and could go on a tour the same day you bought it..........for a price in the mid 60’s. It’s apples and oranges as far as body style and platform, but to me the 16 is ten times more interesting and drivable than the open Nash, with no additional investment. Ones dollar goes much further today than in the recent past..........So if the Nash is worth 50 the way it sits,  I would find a bunch of other cars in the same price category more interesting and a better value.

 

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

I try and figure out what else you can buy for the same money. The V-16 that sold in January was a great turn key car, from a world class collection, and could go on a tour the same day you bought it..........for a price in the mid 60’s. It’s apples and oranges as far as body style and platform, but to me the 16 is ten times more interesting and drivable than the open Nash, with no additional investment. Ones dollar goes much further today than in the recent past..........So if the Nash is worth 50 the way it sits,  I would find a bunch of other cars in the same price category more interesting and a better value.

 

 

I'm not sure it is fair to cherry pick a smoking deal and use that as a comp.  All in it was 72,800.  But to be devil's advocate,  the Nash is 10x better looking and I'm willing to bet they made 10x more of those V16 Limo's in 1930 than the Nash Conv in 1932.

 

If the Nash hammers anywhere near the Caddy I will agree with you,  but for the sake of this discussion we are talking approx 1/2 as much... say hammer around 35k.

 

https://rmsothebys.com/en/auctions/az20/arizona/lots/r0010-1931-cadillac-v-16-seven-passenger-imperial-sedan-by-fleetwood/830529

 

I flipped the Nash so we could compare side by side,  but only a Pierce Arrow guy would love the looks of the Caddy (and my apologies to the new owner - who got a smoking deal).

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by alsancle (see edit history)

[F&J]

ahem.... speaking of "a" 32 Nash vs 31 Cad...  I was working on my 1063 front seats today trying to set up the best placement for me as driver.  Of course I had to use the drivers seat track adjuster to make sure my placement choice would allow a very tall person like my son, to drive it.

 

Well, I was pleasantly surprised that it has a deco, center front, simple spring loaded release handle that works slick/instantly.  But as I had to save money on building the 32 Ford, I used the 31 Cad V-12 seat(that came with the Nash) by narrowing it.  That Cad adjuster is out of Walt Disney World...as in mickey mouse. A old fashioned looking design T handle that you have to crank even more than a 30 day clock, and it's not easy when sitting in the seat.  (just attempting a little humor)

 

I know, I shall confess, I am a 32 second series Nash junkie.... and in all interpretations of that word  

 

I also agree the above Cad is not as stylish as the 32 2nd series Nash, but it's not really a fair comparison.  Many brands of 1931 were still the old boxy body, flat grille look of the late 20s, and a 31 Nash is no exception..   

Edited July 16, 2020 by F&J (see edit history)

[edinmass]

Being a mechanic, I find the V-16 ten times more interesting. So the Caddy was 72, and the consensus is the Nash will hammer At 50. Add five for the sale, so we are at 72 for a sorted legendary turn key car, or 55 for a car that the minimum will need 10-15 .....tires, exhaust, ect. So, I see the Cad as a better deal. The Nash has a neat eight, but the chassis is rather short, and the body is a small batch built unit, not by one of the prestigious houses. But.......if the Caddy has a problem.............it’s a BIG hole to drive into.........now we wait and watch for entertainment. 

[Grimy]

13 hours ago, F&J said:

 

I've hinted before that a few well funded buyers almost need somebody else to tell them what is high class....kind of like needing a Fifth Ave Clothier get you looking like you are a person with style.  

Bravo!!  We need some well-heeled folks to save and properly restore cars like this so that we're not bored with only Cad 16s.

[F&J]

Ed, I'm just starting to grasp the bigger picture of what I think you are hinting to, as far as the old car world is rapidly "adjusting", if that's the right description?

 

yes, I know that the 2020 constant negative media bombardment as well as the resulting business failures, etc,  are playing a role right now, but wasn't the vintage car market showing a somewhat continuous drop in interest/buyers in recent years? 

 

If so, are we seeing the first signs of what might end up as a permanent and massive drop in pricing across all levels of collector cars?   I also would like to know if you see any younger people, let's say in their 30s to early 40s, actually even wanting any of these heavier types of prewar cars talked about in this thread?

 

As a blue collar hobbyist for 50+ years, I've relied on occasional flipping of much lower price stuff to support owning the cars I bought to keep forever, but I have really drastically changed my own resale valuations on anything considered as a medium to bigger project.  I now realize that they aren't even resaleable at all. 

[alsancle]

A friend reminded me of this car the other day.   Sold at Simeone a few years ago for 18,700.    I'll bet most of of you can guess where it is going,  probably the number one collector of this sort of car in the world who will give it a great restoration.  I think it is an interesting comparison to a 33/34 Buick 90 Club sedan.   The two cars are practically identical in all respects except the Nash has a few survivors and there are decent number of 90s around.

 

1934 Nash AMBASSADOR EIGHT 1297 FIVE PASSENGER LWB BROUGHAM
Chassis no. 522564
Engine no. 522564

322 cu. in. Twin Ignition Valve-In-Head 8-Cylinder Engine
Dual Throat Carburetor
125bhp at 3600rpm
3-Speed Manual Transmission
4-Wheel Semi Elliptical Leaf Spring Suspension
4-Wheel Drum Brakes

*Nash's top-of-the-line offering
*Designed by Count Alexis De Sakhnoffsky
*Highly original and unmolested example from long term ownership
*Classic Car Club of America full classic status
*Opulent art deco styling with world class mechanics