Cokekid Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 While waiting for some parts to be delivered I started to look for things I could do now. I was always wondering how the Damper worked so I started to examine it. When I looked at the engines from the #1 seized engine and then looked at the #2 rebuilt engine I noticed a difference. The first picture is from the #1engine and it shows the damper set back into the block. On the #2 engine the damper is set further out. #1 engine #2 engine I would appreciate if someone would explain to me how this part works. Gerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beltfed Posted July 9, 2020 Share Posted July 9, 2020 What years are the engines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38ShortopConv. Posted July 10, 2020 Share Posted July 10, 2020 Number 1 engine shows the Harmonic Balancer [ Damper] in its correct position. . Number 2 engine the keyway needs to be lined up, the mating surfaces polished then the Damper can be lightly tapped on to crankshaft to its correct position as per number 1 engine. I believe there are two types of damper, one with 4 bolts the other with 6 bolts with slightly different shaped flanges. How does it work?? very mysteriously! They tell us it soaks up any harmonic?? out of balance weight and sounds, Very clever!! Those two flanges are spring loaded with a clutch plate between them and clamp to a central disc and can relocate and rotate at slightly different speed to damper body which runs at crankshaft speed dampering out any small vibrations. As I say quite clever. Other viewers will have their views. Lets see them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cokekid Posted July 10, 2020 Author Share Posted July 10, 2020 Beltfed The First engine is from a 47 Linc Zephyr and the Second is from a 48 Linc Cont. After reading your question I went back out to take a look at both engines and to my surprise I found another problem. I noticed that the front engine covers were different as shown in the two photos. I never took notice of which cover came off which engine. As you can see, there is a difference around the sides when I install a gasket on them. The gaskets came in a kit that I bought at Hersey last year and all the thin gaskets will only fit one of the covers. I am now totally confused as to why the one cover is slightly wider then the other. Gerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38ShortopConv. Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 (edited) Slight casting difference may be. Different foundry? Looks like the wide cover goes on the red block? you could make a wider gasket to suit or use narrow gasket on wide cover Should seal ok. Edited July 11, 2020 by 38ShortopConv. (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cokekid Posted July 11, 2020 Author Share Posted July 11, 2020 I presently have two post running regarding a Oil Slinger, and this one. Seeing that I have found another problem I will keep all my questions in this post, I decided to replace the Oil Slinger and after seeing the diagram for the assembling Damper. The first thing is to remove the I/2 " nut inside the Damper. I read some were that if you ever have a motor rebuilt you should always review all the parts that were replace. The reason being you will find out what I just did, there is no nut inside this damper. #1 ENGINE -Has Bolt #2 Engine- Nothing I am going to try and read up on how to remove the Damper as it must have been pressed on Gerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19tom40 Posted July 11, 2020 Share Posted July 11, 2020 (edited) That vibration damper should just come off by tugging on it. If it doesn't, use a brass rod and small hammer to tap at the back of the pulley where the oil seal meets the crankshaft. Do not use a steel drift or hammer directly on these parts as you can damage them. The brass is softer than the steel and will not harm the steel. Edit: the pulley looks like it is hung up on the key, so when you get it off check to make sure that the key is the right size and shape. It must also be fully seated in the crankshaft groove. I think that it is a 1/4" by 1 1/4" long with a taper on the front to allow easy assembly. Edited July 11, 2020 by 19tom40 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cokekid Posted July 11, 2020 Author Share Posted July 11, 2020 19tom40 I will do as you suggested, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cokekid Posted July 11, 2020 Author Share Posted July 11, 2020 19tom40 Decided to remove Damper and reuse the Oil Slinger from #1 Engine. Although removing parts from #2 Engine was quit easy, as it almost slid off. Taking the parts off engine #2 was lot tougher. I had to spray the Damper shaft with Blast Off and then placed two pieces of 2x4 one on each side behind the pulley and the engine block. I would then tap each piece of wood backwards against the pulley side I also kept tapping the shaft. After about an hour, the Damper came off along with the slinger. Both the slinger & bolt from #1 Engine will now be used. Thanks Guys for helping me solve this problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cokekid Posted July 11, 2020 Author Share Posted July 11, 2020 Beltfed The #1 engine came out of a 47 Lin Coup. The #2 engine is from a 48 Lin Cont. I am starting to wonder why there is a difference Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cokekid Posted July 12, 2020 Author Share Posted July 12, 2020 I'm back. Just when I thought everything was going well with this slinger up pops another problem. The slinger slides onto a shaft that is totally different from one engine to the other. Both engines have a Woodruff Key #352650-S . The problem is #2 engine has another one #352651-S called "Vibration Damper Hub Key". Were the shaft on engine #1 doesn't have one . If I slide the slinger onto the shaft on #2 engine it ends up to be crooked. #1 engine Gerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19tom40 Posted July 12, 2020 Share Posted July 12, 2020 (edited) Both snouts on the crankshaft have 2 grooves for keys. My guess is that the vibration damper key is the incorrect key. Compare it to the key from engine 1. I looks like both pulleys are bent, the one on the right more than the one on the left. If they are bent, look for new ones or you will have belt problems. The slinger slot is supposed to engage the key that holds the crank gear in place and be behind the damper key. Edited July 12, 2020 by 19tom40 (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38ShortopConv. Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 According to my Lincoln chassis parts book the "woodruff" key should finish flush at the front edge of crank gear. The slinger sits back flat against the gear boss held back by the damper body and located by the damper " square" key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38ShortopConv. Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 (edited) Tom &Jerry, after further research I believe the slinger slot is located on the " woodruff key" ear/ tag and not the balancer "square key". There is a notch at the end of the balancer body which has clearance around the ear tag and allows the balancer to push the slinger against the crank gear boss. The "square key" locates balancer and does not reach the slinger. See page 6 of 171 third post down, Mssr. Bwatoe Harmonic Balancer exploded view. Edited July 13, 2020 by 38ShortopConv. (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19tom40 Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 This post has the photo submitted by Ken/Alabama. https://forums.aaca.org/topic/325978-h-v-12-vibration-dampner-balancer/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cokekid Posted July 14, 2020 Author Share Posted July 14, 2020 I finally got to install then slinger. Not to sure if this was the right way but here is how I did it. I Aligned the hole in the slinger onto the Vibration Hub Key and slid it all the way to the end. I then turn the slinger all the way to the right onto the Woodruff Key. Here is what it look like now. + I hope I installed it the right way . 19tom40 I also noticed that both pulleys on each Damper looked bent. Time to make some phone calls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38ShortopConv. Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 Looks good to me .Dont think it would work the other way around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cokekid Posted July 16, 2020 Author Share Posted July 16, 2020 38ShortopConv. It had me guess if it was going on the right way. Seeing that it's off. Now is the question about getting it back on. Just trying to slid it onto the Damper it only goes onto the shaft about 1" and then it will not go any further. I am hoping someone has done his before. I don't want to start another post on my next question as the topic here is about the Damper. Does anyone knows what material the pulley on the Damper is made of. I am sure it is not Cast Iron. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19tom40 Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 The pulleys are made of steel. The key doesn't look like it is seated in the groove. remove the key and make sure that the slot is clean. Try the damper, it should go all of the way on without requiring more than hand pressure. Replace the key with the taper towards the front of the car. If the damper doesn't slide on, check the key for damage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cokekid Posted July 18, 2020 Author Share Posted July 18, 2020 19tom40 You were correct when you said the Vibration Key was originally installed the wrong way. I pulled the Damper back off and turned the key around and the Damper went back on with without a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cokekid Posted July 24, 2020 Author Share Posted July 24, 2020 Me and my buddy were sitting around talking about this Damper. He comment on "Why was there a extra large washer added, when the parts listed only a 1/2" (1/8' x13/16 Lock washer." Gerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38ShortopConv. Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 (edited) Printers error? The large washer is needed. The extra wide washer is" convex" [has slight hollow ] to clear end of crankshaft so the OD of washer tightens down on Damper. The lock washer as we all know keeps bolt tight unless it snaps and falls out. Lock washers [spring washers] have been known to break. Use a new one. The wide convex washer has to be installed with curve facing out otherwise balancer will be loose. Edited July 26, 2020 by 38ShortopConv. (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cokekid Posted July 26, 2020 Author Share Posted July 26, 2020 38ShortopConv. We both now understand about the use of this washer. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cokekid Posted July 31, 2020 Author Share Posted July 31, 2020 Just want to make sure I am installing the4 slinger the right way. Here is how I am going to install it. Gerry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cokekid Posted July 31, 2020 Author Share Posted July 31, 2020 The reason I was asking is I noticed the slot on the Damper never went all the way into the Special key. I was concerned that I had installed the Slinger the wrong way. After taking a good look at my photo I realized that if I install it that way I would have covered up the Special Key. The next photo shows were the slot on the Damper goes into the Special Key it doesn't go in all the way. The back of the slinger is tight against the block. My question now is it correct.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
19tom40 Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 Looks correct to me. Look at the drawing in the parts catalog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cokekid Posted August 1, 2020 Author Share Posted August 1, 2020 Members 81 934 posts 20 hours ago, Cokekid said: The reason I was asking is I noticed the slot on the Damper never went all the way into the Special key. I was concerned that I had installed the Slinger the wrong way. After taking a good look at my photo I realized that if I install it that way I would have covered up the Special Key. The next photo shows were the slot on the Damper goes into the Special Key it doesn't go in all the way. The back of the slinger is tight against the block. My question now is it correct.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cokekid Posted August 1, 2020 Author Share Posted August 1, 2020 Tom O'D Glad to hear this, as I didn't want to carry on and find out later I have a problem with this. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken/Alabama Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 On 7/10/2020 at 9:18 AM, Cokekid said: Beltfed The First engine is from a 47 Linc Zephyr and the Second is from a 48 Linc Cont. After reading your question I went back out to take a look at both engines and to my surprise I found another problem. I noticed that the front engine covers were different as shown in the two photos. I never took notice of which cover came off which engine. As you can see, there is a difference around the sides when I install a gasket on them. The gaskets came in a kit that I bought at Hersey last year and all the thin gaskets will only fit one of the covers. I am now totally confused as to why the one cover is slightly wider then the other. Gerry The top cover ,the wider one is from a V8 Ford. The narrow one is correct for the V12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ken/Alabama Posted August 4, 2020 Share Posted August 4, 2020 That is correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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