Working on our old cars....

[Bill Stoneberg]

Copied from a Jaguar Forum but it is the same for our Buicks too.

This is supposed to be a fun hobby, not a source of frustration.

 

 

[Barney Eaton]

On newer vehicles (without the aid of a service manual)  I usually remove several items that do not need to be removed.

Unless you are careful,  the screws/bolts get mixed because they look alike........there are black hex head bolts with regular threads

then there are the look alike black hex head screws that have sheet metal threads (used going into plastic)   Sometimes they mix the

two different fasteners holding the same part.

[60FlatTop]

Working on an old collector car one can reach a point where you just lay your tools in hand on the floor and walk away. It could be hours, days, months, maybe never, before you walk back, pick up the tool, and find yourself right back where you left off.

 

Always makes me remember when my Uncle Sylvester O'Brien started walking around saying "Meet me in St. Louis, Louie". Really bothered my aunt. I could relate.

 

More than 40 years ago a friend stated "The level of perfection one is able to achieve is directly proportional to the number of times they are willing to do it over". It was a little less than 30 years ago I realized "being willing" was the key to the whole thing.

Bernie

[NTX5467]

When I glanced at the initial words and saw "frustration" and "Old Jags" in the same sentence, I could understand that, for several reasons.  EACH manufacturer's vehicles have particular design traits that can be unique to them only, while being similar to others.  ANOTHER orientation is to understand how the vehicle is built and what is assembled first and what is done after that, which affects the disassembly and re-assembly processes.  OF course, it always helps to have these things assessed BEFORE any work is done!  IF there's "going to be a fight", you need to know the original rules of engagement written by the designing engineers FIRST.

 

IF you consider working on vehicles:  1) To be a form of stress relief    2)  A source of pride and enjoyment    3)  A learning experience -- At what cost?  Something you NOW know how to do    Something that should have been done by somebody else to start with, then you'll know how to best proceed into the future, by observation.    AND, of course, allot about 3X more time than originally projected to do the job, with similar cost over-runs.  Mixing dreams and money, modified by reality, can leads to some very interesting results.

 

One OTHER thing to keep in mind, "If ONE door closes, OTHERS open".  Knowing "When to hold 'em, When to fold 'em" comes with experience.  Having a place for things when the need to "take a break, think about things, then re-commence" is a definite plus, too.

 

Enjoy when possible,

NTX5467

Edited July 4, 2020 by NTX5467 (see edit history)

[Frank DuVal]

Bugs Bunny said it this way:

 

"So Long Screwy, see you in St. Louie!"

 

I seem to only work on cars with "interesting design features"!😁

[Larry Schramm]

Try putting a 112 year old Buick together that was picked up in boxes and pieces swept up off the floor.   All this is done without any service manuals.

 

Here is where it is now. Everything that you see below has been completely taken apart, rebuilt and attached to the frame/ chassis.

 

 

Edited July 6, 2020 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[Ben Bruce aka First Born]

9 hours ago, Larry Schramm said:

Try putting a 112 year old Buick together that was picked up in boxes and pieces swept up off the floor.   All this is done without any service manuals.

 

Here is where it is now. Everything that you see below has been completely taken apart, rebuilt and attached to the frame/ chassis.

 

 

 

  My kind of puzzle!

 

  Ben

[TxBuicks]

I have a hard enough time putting it back together with all of the resources I can find.  I cannot imagine doing it with no manual.

[Matt Harwood]

I really enjoy working on old cars. I look forward to my weekends of tinkering and fixing little stuff on my cars. It's very therapeutic and my wife does notice my mood is different when I have a project versus when I'm just killing time. Of course, she also notices when my therapeutic project goes sideways and I'm now more frustrated and more angry than I would have been had I done nothing except stay home and mow the lawn instead.

About 90% of the time, that frustration and anger is caused by someone in the past doing an ignorant job or a cheap job or a quickie. You can usually spot if it was a cheapskate or an idiot who did the work, as they have very distinctive markings, with the quickie being the easiest of all to spot--usually a repair done by the side of the road and since it worked, well, that's good enough, leave it alone. The idiot re-engineers the car because he doesn't know how it was supposed to work, so he turns it into something he does understand. And the cheapskate, well, he just uses whatever was handy, be it household wiring and plumbing fixtures, drywall screws, and various kinds of tape. Not sure which one does more damage, but my money would be on the idiot, who, of course, actually believes himself to be much smarter than the guys who built the car in the first place.

[dibarlaw]

Yes Matt as we have discussed with my 1925-25 there were many times I had to walk away. Mostly in frustration because I found another "re-engineered" component or jury-rigged assembly. Some of it my inept engineering! But with these experiences may come understanding and hopefully a good workman like solution. A few of my findings below.

As found. STEEL split rivets to hold the brake linings on.

Cracked open oil distribution tube joint that had RTV blue sealant when discovered.

 

Broken pot metal distributer repair. They made a solid collar without any means to get grease to the shaft.

 

[Larry Schramm]

On 7/6/2020 at 11:23 AM, TxBuicks said:

I have a hard enough time putting it back together with all of the resources I can find.  I cannot imagine doing it with no manual.

 

It is fantastic to have some very good friends that have cars to help with the puzzle.🙂

[MRJBUICK]

for the owners who own the cars prior to lets say 1935 i wonder if some repairs you find were attributed to the stock market crash when so little was available.

obviously not with RTV blue.  just curious

[Matt Harwood]

1 hour ago, MRJBUICK said:

for the owners who own the cars prior to lets say 1935 i wonder if some repairs you find were attributed to the stock market crash when so little was available.

obviously not with RTV blue.  just curious

 

I think repairs done in-period would be superior simply because the materials they had would have matched the car. When I see the plastic Pep Boys electrical connectors, modern wires, worm-drive hose clamps doing things hose clamps weren't designed to do, those cheap corrugated universal-fit radiator hoses, and Home Depot plumbing fittings, I know the work was done recently and by a guy with no clue what he was doing and no care about getting it right.

 

A guy working in, say, 1939 would not have had access to any of that--his supplies would have matched the car and his mentality would only have been to repair it. There were surely cut-rate mechanics and hacks at work back then, but doing it wrong wasn't as easy as it is today and didn't represent the same shortcut that typifies most hack work done since, say, 1970. There was also much more knowledge of how to do things because that was all they had. Points and condensers weren't a mystery, carburetors weren't black magic, and 12 volt batteries and alternators didn't exist. The only way to fix most cars was to fix them with correct fixes--there were no shortcuts or quickie parts replacements, you used what you had to use because there were no alternatives. The cars hadn't deteriorated to the point where significant part replacement was required, either. As a result, it was harder to be a hack and since they were just used cars, a reduced incentive to be one.

On the other hand, you probably saw a lot of radiators being patched that should have been scrapped, a bunch of makeshift carburetor swaps with creative linkages, and likely some scary plumbing work in fuel systems.

[Larry Schramm]

1 hour ago, MRJBUICK said:

for the owners who own the cars prior to lets say 1935 i wonder if some repairs you find were attributed to the stock market crash when so little was available.

obviously not with RTV blue.  just curious

 

I would say that it depends on when the repairs were made.

 

Before the stock market crash of October 29, 1929, probably most repairs were made with OEM or period parts.  After that to WWII, there was limited amount of money and anything available that would make the vehicle run was used.  Hence the term "bailing wire and a pair of pliers".   

 

Also old cars of the era were never expected to last more than a few years, especially 20-40 years. 

 

Example of depression era migration.

Picture from Encyclopedia of Alabama.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Larry Schramm (see edit history)

[MRJBUICK]

6 minutes ago, Larry Schramm said:

 

I would say that it depends on when the repairs were made.

 

Before the stock market crash of October 29, 1929, probably most repairs were made with OEM or period parts.  After that to WWII, there was limited amount of money and anything available that would make the vehicle run was used.  Hence the term "bailing wire and a pair of pliers".   

 

Also old cars of the era were never expected to last more than a few years, especially 20-40 years. 

 

Example of depression era migration.

Picture from Encyclopedia of Alabama.

well used and well worn, tough times and we think we have problems

[NTX5467]

Larry, you did a fantastic job with your "puzzle"!

 

Congrats!

NTX5467

[Larry Schramm]

5 hours ago, NTX5467 said:

Larry, you did a fantastic job with your "puzzle"!

 

Congrats!

NTX5467

 

I am getting there.  Maybe by next spring I might have it done.  Thanks

[60FlatTop]

I will never forget the afternoon I spent upside down at the narrow end of an alligator Packard Six R&Ring the makeshift generator spacers and incorrect generator since it was all there was. I imagined I was following the Douglas MacArthur.

 

We Have Done So Much with So Little for So Long, that Now We Can Do Anything with Nothing

Probably the inspiration for MacArthur Park.... it.

 

 

[DAVES89]

1 hour ago, 60FlatTop said:

I will never forget the afternoon I spent upside down at the narrow end of an alligator Packard Six R&Ring the makeshift generator spacers and incorrect generator since it was all there was. I imagined I was following the Douglas MacArthur.

 

We Have Done So Much with So Little for So Long, that Now We Can Do Anything with Nothing

Probably the inspiration for MacArthur Park.... it.

 

 

The complete saying is;

 We the unwilling, led by the unknowing, have done so much, with so little, for so long, that we can do absolutely anything, with nothing at all.

[NTX5467]

"If you can't impress them with brilliance, baffle them with bs . . . ."  on so many fronts.

 

NTX5467

[dibarlaw]

Dave :

 We had that saying printed on a poster behind our bank of Vertical turret lathes at Combustion Engineering back in the 1970s.

 I remember complaining that a new guy was put on a newly purchased lathe. I was at the time working on a very worn pre WW II Warner-Swasey Turret lathe. Our foreman commented that " I can get any chimpanzee to run a new machine, but it takes a machinist to run these pieces of s...!"

[60FlatTop]

1972 I had the chimpanzee job on a horizontal turret lathe with NC tape control. The money had to set the X and Y axis on every step.

 

"Oh, you just put the tape in and it's all automatic" said the boss.

[roadmaster29]

I follow the advice of old tank. People that use tools bleed. From working on my 58 this weekend