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The old Girl let me down...


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Last evening (Thurs) we headed into town to a 6pm gathering of car guys/gals at the local DQ.  A few hundred yards before we got to parking lot the car started to buck and then not run.  Good thing it was a downhill gentle slope into the parking lot as I coasted into the area and had to push it into a parking spot. Spent an hour or so visiting and then an hour or so trying to solve the no start problem.  The battery was good but couldn't get lights or horn or get the S/G to rotate.  Figured something may be wrong with the ignition switch so fiddled with that for awhile.  Finally got the S/G to work and it turned over well but would not fire.  Not a fuel problem. Ended up calling my friendly BCAA for a ride home.  Took them 2 1/2 hours to arrive!!!!!!!  Got home at 10:45 .  Any ideas of what to look at are welcome. Did check the Dist and point and it was rotating. The coil had spark but a little on the weak side.  That is the second time in 40 years it has had to come home on a deck.  Leon

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Leon:

 Sorry for your "ride of shame". I have had 3 so far with my cars. 2 with my 1925 over 9 years. With as much experience we have had with our cars one would think we could diagnose and repair anything.

 The first trip for my 1925 was when the clutch went out and this last time the water pump seized and took out the timing gear.

I hope it is a simple fix for you.

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14 hours ago, garnetkid said:

Any ideas of what to look at are welcome.  Not a fuel problem.

 

I suggest you charge the battery to get good rotation from the S/G, clean the ignition contacts, & verify you have good power to the points & coil, & check the spark at a plug too.  Good luck.

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If fuel and spark are there, maybe air restriction somewhere? At least you had a Dairy Queen nearby, I love their blizzards! 

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Leon

 

You are a lucky man to have a car that can break down on the road.

All of mine seem to be stuck in the shop and a looong way from breaking down on the road! 😒

I'm sure it isn't anything serious.

 

Brad

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Just a little update...  Got the car running, appears problem is with the ignition switch.  I am in the process of removing the switch to to have a closer look.  I do have some spare switch parts and hope I don't run into problems with that as I know they are hard to come by.  I recall a previous post awhile ago that detailed the restoration of one, so a search for that is my next step.  Leon

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Thanks Brad, I am sure that is going to come in handy. Hope I don't need to go that far. This site always amazes me at the talent there is and that they

are willing to share it.  Leon

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If I am understanding the electrical system correctly the starter/generator is on a separate circuit from the lights and horn.  I think that would explain how the starter motor could operate and at the same time there are no lights.  If I have that wrong, I hope someone will set me straight and explain.

 

Terry Wiegand

South Hutchinson, Kansas 

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If it turns out to be your switch Bob's has all of the parts and does a perfect rebuild of your switch  however the only parts you can buy to rebuild it yourself are whats in their catalog.When I decided to rebuild mine I found out that someone had modified the housing and used parts other than original so even though I had bought all of the parts from Bob's  that he was willing to sell I had to have them rebuild it.

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DSCF5771.thumb.JPG.a429b3d57a45b3f6ac73583af20a1af7.JPG

How about these modifications! I had to build mine for the Master from several parts donners.

 

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Completely rebuilt switch with new case and switch levers and home made dust boot ready to install. 

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OK just another update and to thanks for the suggestions for looking for a fix.  I removed the switch as the relay looked to have overheated and because I had anther switch in parts that looked to have a better backing plate and relay I decided to clean it up and install it..Tested the relay first and the points opened and closed as I thought they should, so thought it would work. The s/g works as it should and the car starts and runs fine.  Just the the lighting systems don't work.  The horn works because it's now on the #1 terminal (hot one) where it was supposed to be to begin with. So it is back to rethinking the relay and to that end I have been in contact with Hugh for some very  good information on modern modifications.  I also found that the spare switch body is in excellent shape, at least better that the one I have been using.  Just have to carefully remove the trim ring without breaking it!!  some pictures of the spare backing plate/relay and the collection of spare parts.

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Leon,

    Good that you have it all apart.  The housing looks decent, but I would start with a new one.  Your call as these are not cheap.  These are the parts and what Bob's sells.   Notice the subtle differences in the contact spiders and the stop plates.   Also the insulators have to go in the right place as well.  If you did a good job documenting  disassembly, they are not too difficult to reinstall.  Hugh

443492204_BobsAutomobiliaparts.thumb.JPG.2da18036294f76a37f6df54e2c773942.JPG669662218_ignswitchSlide1.JPG.204dd6a634a2e9fba8bc26693724abf1.JPG1118142373_ignswitchSlide2.JPG.8cfc3da83cd9e94d96542ebb76eb7b63.JPG

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Leon:

 I see one of your contacts has been replaced on the Micarta insulating plate. That seems to be the bad spot on these switches. That side is the high current ignition side.

741574148_DSCF1523(1024x768).thumb.jpg.7d1521721ffb34b507faddd6c05dd5ac.jpg

921071818_DSCF1528(1024x768).thumb.jpg.5129bee68f74ff53fe44c6ec7cfeb5bf.jpg   Burnt and charred contact.

1176906181_DSCF1547(1024x768).thumb.jpg.be0cb9c2ae211958f9b3c7b937a06014.jpg Turned replacement pins to reset onto Micarta plate.

1617002211_DSCF1546(1024x768).thumb.jpg.ccff6a2403862c7d19f69a8153146e4f.jpg After glued and set I filled the worn depressed with epoxy.

So far after 8 years the switch works fine.

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3 hours ago, dibarlaw said:

I had to make them on my lathe as they are really like brass rivets that are staked to the contact terminals.


want to make a few more?  🤷🏼‍♂️😳😂😂😂

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The issue is that one has to fit them to the micarta back. The ones I made had to be fitted to the particular plate. I heated and pressed the entire plate to get it flat. I do not see me getting time to do them any time soon.

I have plenty of work under way at the time. Making a new fan hub insert with sealed bearings for my 1925 Master.

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Plus the machining of a new water pump shaft, bearings and a new impellor.

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42 minutes ago, dibarlaw said:

The issue is that one has to fit them to the micarta back. The ones I made had to be fitted to the particular plate. I heated and pressed the entire plate to get it flat. I do not see me getting time to do them any time soon.

I have plenty of work under way at the time. Making a new fan hub insert with sealed bearings for my 1925 Master.

DSCF8197.thumb.JPG.82795e4c40cb5ad2af670cbcc7ed286f.JPG

Plus the machining of a new water pump shaft, bearings and a new impellor.


I can appreciate that!  If you ever do please keep me in mind, you aren’t that far from me!  I’d love to put a sealed bearing into my fan hub, but I don’t know what I’m doing when it comes to that!  Would be nice to no longer have oil blowing back into the engine!

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I made mine from brass rivets.   I chucked it in the drill press and sanded it to the right size. The rivet  heads are a larger diameter than the body so that helps.  I made the part that goes through the micarta the same size as the hole in the screw lug on the back. I soldered the the screw lug to the contact on the back sife of the micarta.

 

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1 hour ago, Fred Rawling said:

I made mine from brass rivets.   I chucked it in the drill press and sanded it to the right size. The rivet  heads are a larger diameter than the body so that helps.  I made the part that goes through the micarta the same size as the hole in the screw lug on the back. I soldered the the screw lug to the contact on the back sife of the micarta.

 


great idea, remember what size Brass Rivets you started with?  Also I think I understood evetging up till you said you soldered??  

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THE BACK OF THE MICARTS HAS A METAL PART FOR THE SCREW CONNETION.  IT IS "L" SHAPED. ONE SIDE HAS THE SCREW CONNECTION, THE OTHER HAS A HOLE WHERE THE CONTACT PASSES THROUGH. THEY WERE SEWEDGED OR RIVETED ORIGIONALLY. RATHER THAN HAMMER ON IT,  I SOLDERED THE CONTACT TO THE STEEL "L".

 

THE RIVET THAT I USED HAD A HEAD THAT WAS TOO LARGE.  I FILED IT TO THE RIGHT SIZE.  YOU NEED TO FIND ONE WITH THE CORRECT DIAMETER SHANK.

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