Vacuum hoses diagram

[Red Alf]

I have a 1989 SEC, with the vacuum hoses gones, toasted. I search in the blue service manual, and on the print under the hood, also on a Chrysler 8673/20382 Chilton's manual, and what  I found is just controversial from one data to the other.  I purchase a bunch of silicon hoses, and copy  the print that is under the hood (#4405202), that anyway is not showing all the air filter canister connections. the car start and run, no vibration, the turbo turn on, the auto speed control is not working,  and after a few minutes the motor start to surges. Anyone can help with an appropriate diagram?  Thanks.

[Reaper1]

That diagram looks correct. It sounds like maybe the hose from the turbo compressor to the cruise control isn't plugged in or has a hole in it somewhere.

[Red Alf]

Nope, new hose going from the turbo to to the speed control. The air cleaner box actual connections:

1) Vacuum to quick release valve connected the shut-off-valve

2)All the big 2"hoses are easy to connect.

3) From the valve cover to the air filter cover is Ok.

4) From the turbo to below the air filter/shut off valve is OK.

5) Is where is the problem....one port on the air cleaner, close to the point #1, is with no connection.

 

[Reaper1]

Can you take a picture of it?

[Red Alf]

Is the picture.

Now, reading to all the vacuum related questions and answers on this forum, probably I am the #1001 with this issue. I am surprise that no one of our Gurus posted a complete vacuum/pressure diagram, maybe with blue color all the vacuum, and in red all the pressure. I just throw the ball, see where will go.

[Red Alf]

Just to have more fun, I use to have another TC, and I save a ton of parts, also the plastic plate under the hood with the vacuum diagram, and  the connection by the throttle body is different.??????????

[Hemi Dude]

2 hours ago, Alfonso Montemerlo said:

Is the picture.

Now, reading to all the vacuum related questions and answers on this forum, probably I am the #1001 with this issue. I am surprise that no one of our Gurus posted a complete vacuum/pressure diagram, maybe with blue color all the vacuum, and in red all the pressure. I just throw the ball, see where will go.

 

Hello Alfonso, interesting suggestion that you “throw out”  ⚾️, back to you.

You must have seen many helpful replies from me. Over the years there has never been a good, easy to read and understand vacuum hose diagram published by any automotive shop manual producer.

May I suggest that YOU take a shot at it, then we can all have a look at it and help to refine it. This way you can get the credit for it.
There is no one here who are getting paid to give any advice and help here.
We do it as the spirit moves us. You are free to join in.

[Reaper1]

My 1 car is apart right now and my other one is on its way to me, so I don't have it to look at, but I am pretty sure that bigger nipple goes to a J-hose that T's into a line...I think from the throttle body to the cruise control. Again, I don't have mine to look at.

[Red Alf]

Mr. Hemi, I print so many of your replies that my print dried up, and as soon I will found the correct position of each hoses I promise that I will do the layout.

Mr. Reaper1, as soon you can verify the hoses in the J, let me know. Yes I believe that from the J, one side goes to the speed control, but from both prints the turbo small fitting  goes to the cruise control diaphragm, well, we will see.... for now thanks to everyone.

[Reaper1]

4 hours ago, Alfonso Montemerlo said:

Mr. Hemi, I print so many of your replies that my print dried up, and as soon I will found the correct position of each hoses I promise that I will do the layout.

Mr. Reaper1, as soon you can verify the hoses in the J, let me know. Yes I believe that from the J, one side goes to the speed control, but from both prints the turbo small fitting  goes to the cruise control diaphragm, well, we will see.... for now thanks to everyone.

OK, I think you kind of answered your own question there. Since the diagrams show both the cruise control AND the air box connecting to the 1 fitting on the turbo, then that's where the J-hose T's into...that line coming from the turbo to the cruise control. This is based only on your description above and I still need to see if I can physically verify.

[Red Alf]

Mr. Reaper1, do you maybe a chance to confirm the J, or better the Y fitting connections? maybe one side to the air box filter, one to the turbo, and one to the speed control.  But maybe I am wrong.

[Reaper1]

On 7/8/2020 at 5:47 PM, Alfonso Montemerlo said:

Mr. Reaper1, do you maybe a chance to confirm the J, or better the Y fitting connections? maybe one side to the air box filter, one to the turbo, and one to the speed control.  But maybe I am wrong.

Yes, this big line on the airbox get Teed into a supply line from the compressor of the turbo to the cruise control.

[Red Alf]

Thanks, for the confirmation.

Now the car  just asks for a new gift, the Teves fail, so I will install a LeBaron brake/buster. I don't know if you are familiar with the installation, do I need to remove the rear proportioning valve? from the Mr. Hemi page on the matter seem that I will need only to replace the front hoses and flare the single rear one. I don't like to bother Mr. Hemi as is with the bad virus, I hope that he will be healings soon.

[Hemi Dude]

Hi, if you have read my story of the replacement on my TC, the only thing you need to do is modify the flare fitting on the line leading to the rear brakes, everything else remains in place. If you have specific questions, please ask before you get sidetracked. I get in the computer at least every evening. I have now been driving this car so equipped for nearly 10 years. Living in Arizona, I have little need for the ABS system as virtually all driving in on dry roads. Being use to cars with normal power brakes, this one stops better than my earlier cars that had 4 wheel drum brakes or at best only disc brakes on the front. 

[Red Alf]

Mr. Hemi, I am an old guy too; I drive all my life without the ABS, on snow, ice and rain, just some little pump on the brake, and a safe speed.

15 years ago with my first TC I do the brake conversion, but I removed everything, with your suggestion will be a breeze.

Back to the VACUUM / motor surge, the  problem is in the turbocharger waste gate flapper, is locked.  The waste gate diaphragm that is good, is not able to move the gate.

I don't know if there is some magic solution without removing the turbo, do you have any suggestion?

Thanks 

[Hemi Dude]

13 hours ago, Alfonso Montemerlo said:

Mr. Hemi, I am an old guy too; I drive all my life without the ABS, on snow, ice and rain, just some little pump on the brake, and a safe speed.

15 years ago with my first TC I do the brake conversion, but I removed everything, with your suggestion will be a breeze.

Back to the VACUUM / motor surge, the  problem is in the turbocharger waste gate flapper, is locked.  The waste gate diaphragm that is good, is not able to move the gate.

I don't know if there is some magic solution without removing the turbo, do you have any suggestion?

Thanks 

So Alfonso, you are telling me that with the wastegate diaphragm disconnected from the lever on the turbocharger, the lever that opens and closes the actual wastegate, IS UNMOVABLE?

You do know that the wastegate diaphragm is opened by high PRESSURE.
Have you tried applying air pressure from an external air compressor?  There is a strong spring pressure holding the diaphragm in the position of rest. It takes quite a lot of pressure to open the wastegate .

[Reaper1]

I think he is saying his wastegate flapper is stuck shut. I have heard of this before. PB Blaster (or some other corrosion penetrant), time, and some forceful suggestions from a hammer. I would suggest heat, but that WILL start a fire and not a great idea in that position. There is also a product from CRC called Freeze Off that works pretty darn well, too, but I don't know how well it will work on the carbon that is guaranteed to be built up in that bushing.

 

If I misinterpreted, I'll bow out.

[Red Alf]

Yes, the  wastgate flapper is stuck. I removed the two screws at the base of the wastegate diaphragm, and as I apply a little air pressure the rod from the actuator move very strong.

To reach the point of contact from the rod actuator and the gate on the turbo is a bear, with the fingers I feel the rust. As there is no room for the hammer, I  build a fork to reach the "gate" but the tip of the fork breaks. Next I will try to build an extension on an air impact scraper, and see if the vibration can help, plus the PB Blaster, I am not familiar with the Freeze OFF, I will try too. On my first TC for two weeks I try to remove the turbo from the top and from the bottom with no results, then I chop the car.

[Reaper1]

It's not "easy" but the turbo *can* be taken off of the car with the head on. Having said that, MOST people just take the whole head off to mess with the turbo. It takes less time, usually.

[Red Alf]

I think that I found the solution. From my donor TC I removed the piece between the turbo and the muffler hose, this is the part that hold the waste gate.

I will make the post with the pictures when the I complete the job. Anyway for the last 15 years my first TC (the chopped one) is my backyard, used as flower pot and make my dogs happy around the rear tires, and the dam turbo still on what is left from the motor, just because I don't have the torch and I am not a mechanic.