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Ya gotta love this DB wrecker....


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This is an “E” series truck as is my 3/4 ton Dodge Bros. Could be either a Graham or Dodge..I believe Grahams were sold at Dodge dealers also.

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On 6/16/2020 at 10:03 AM, keiser31 said:

 Check out the canvas splash aprons....

 

I love that truck too, especially the stance.

 

Doubt it's canvas. Most of these trucks have a thin piece of sheet that goes the distance from front fender to rear fender, notice the clean pinstripe.

 

I like the other view of this shot also. Saved photos of it  years ago to my hard drive, forgot where I'd seen it before.

Extra bonus points for proper ID on the cars in the lobby and the one in the alley ;)

If you can ID the gas pump in the alley then you win it all ...

29 Dodge Tow truck 1.jpg

Edited by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)
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Could be, still doubt it though. I think the reflection from the cab and front fender are to pronounced. Canvas doesn't reflect like that, that's a mirror image from paint. The snaps look like bolt heads for the bed surface material. Not seeing any real evidence it's canvas but I guess it's possible.... 

 

I'll do some digging to see if I can find anything in the literature to see if  they used any canvas splash aprons. Good catch if it is...

If you guys have ever seen a truck with canvas aprons I'd like to see it. 

 

So far, nothing in the Master Buyers guide for all trucks, it only shows metal splash aprons. Will continue to look at other literature and countless photos.

Edited by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)
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Looking at it what makes me think it could be fabric are those wrinkles in it.(or is that also a reflection?) it looks really wavy.  otherwise it does look too reflective. and the pin striping could either be that or some kind of edge around fabric. a hard one to solve.  

 

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The photos I've saved to my hard drive are probably in the hundreds of DB and GB trucks over the years not to mention the books we all have in our library with countless photos. None I've ever seen have fabric,  a lot of them do have a wavy dull effect like what we are seeing in this photo.  If anyone can find one with fabric I'd love to see it so we can all make note of what model it was.

 

As for the wavy effect, my guess is some of the aprons may have been stressed at some point causing the buckled look we are seeing. In the case of this wrecker, I wouldn't doubt if the weight distribution from setting the hoist on the back may have contributed to that effect. 

 

It's an amazing photo but the pixels distort when we zoom in,... so it really is impossible to tell for sure.

Either way, the truck is an amazing example of the time period and fine craftsmanship that took place. 

Thanks for posting it John, it's one of my favorites as well. 

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I was thinking the same thing, that some stress caused it or even an accident at some point. and it is likely metal. the front and  rear section looks too smooth and flat to be fabric. But yes a fine truck and pictures either way. 

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Nicely done. I'm still thinking the splash aprons are metal. note how there appears to be a rather sharp bend right under the fasteners behind the cab.the mounting is likely vertical, and the apron is likely angled out.  I don't think it would be that way with fabric.

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...

Model year and when the photo was taken could mean a lot of different things as we all know.... The truck could be a 1928-1930 model but photo could have been taken later in 1931 or late 1930 when the 1931 Plymouth models would have began being sold, very possible.

 

 You can completely eliminate it as being a 1931 because these Graham E series body styles were produced up until late 1929. This means it could possibly still be a 1930 model (technically) if it was  produced anytime after July 1st 1929 (which is possible) but again, without the frame number it's a guess. Ahh the good ole transition days... ;)  It's a study course I wish on no one..

 

 

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With some time to look for the answers I'm sure we could find the answer.

 

Off the top of my head the E series serial number you provided was probably produced after July 1st 1931 which would make it a 1932 model because it's at the end of the run before the F series trucks serial numbers took over. Keep in mind this was the transition years so this could get really far into the weeds as you know.

 

Keep in mind it could be a 1931 though because of the low production run at the end due to the depression. 

Edited by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)
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Here is my build card for my”E” Series. Some of these “E” series were sold to dealers in the 30’s. The original pink slip calls it a 31. The date of sale. 

 

 

 

0DDCAA20-0662-4144-8AB8-8F4A56CA043C.thumb.jpeg.d29ce8bab0b733c581c32571c77efc42.jpeg

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Perfect example, Stakeside ...  as I said... " it could be a 31"...

 

The build cards don't lie however. Technically that  build card is for a 1930 model truck though... when it sold is really irrelevant when it comes to model year which was the question Doug asked. 

 

Getting deep into the weeds now boys...Let the debates begin 🙄

 

Edited by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)
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Some of you may appreciate this about the early dealership....

(sorry, couldn't help myself 🤔)

 

After searching I found the obit for Raymond P Scott Jr. son of the original owner. 

https://www.inquirer.com/philly/obituaries/20150612_Raymond_P__Scott_Jr___87__auto_dealer.html

 

"The Scott family is known on the Main Line for its string of car dealerships. Mr. Scott's father, Raymond P. Sr., founded the first dealership, a Plymouth and Dodge franchise, in May 1929 on the eve of the Great Depression. Despite the fall of the stock market in October and the hard times that followed, the elder Scott "managed to endure and prosper again," according to a Scott family business summary."

 

It would be interesting to find the original paperwork filed for this business and it's exact location in Ardmore PA. I'm sure it's on file somewhere in Ardmore or possibly the county accessors..

So far, I've traced the used car dealership that stood at 210 E Lincoln HWY where the Napa Auto is now.

See the source image

 

It's looking like 218 E Lincoln Hwy in Ardmore may have been the original location of the new car dealership (in the first post) and is now a parking lot according to a recent search but more info is needed to prove that was the original address.

 

When searching on google this would be on the same side of the road just down the street from the used car dealer (and later Napa Auto). It should be noted that the Napa Store is now technically addressed as 200 E Lancaster Ave Ardmore PA 19003. Lancaster Ave is the same as Lincoln Hwy or Hwy 30.  If anyone in PA likes to research this kind of stuff or if you're in the local area and can find out if the used car building is still standing it would be great.

 

Recent Google search shows the old used car dealer building is still standing:

image.thumb.png.93a5f65745308b87fa370b5309d15558.png

 

Sorry for getting off topic but these old dealerships should not be forgotten.. 

 

Back on topic.

If the obit is correct and the dealership was new in May of 1929 then it does help narrow it down. The truck is either a "model year" 1929, 1930  and if any of the E series Graham styling bodies were produced after July 1st of 1930 it could technically be a 31 or even a 1932 "model year" .  If we only knew the model, wheelbase and the last frame for that model was produced...  

 

Perfect example of why it hurts so much to see the WPC Museum doors closed to researchers. They have the build cards that would answer this question easily in literally seconds for all of us but refuse to let us have access and won't release the information unless we own a specific vehicle. So as an example if you simply want to know what the last truck made in the Detroit made E series (frame  D237361) you must provide proof of ownership of said truck to get the answer. For frame number D237361 the model charts indicate "32"... is that vague enough for anyone? lol.. I for one am not satisfied with that answer we are left with..

 

However, the build card for that frame number will tell us exactly the model year that we are all speculating on in seconds.... I appreciate Brandt and Danielle helping out those of us who send in for build cards but I really wish they would open the doors for those of us trying to find answers through research so we can one day answer these questions that we've been trying to answer for years. Sure would make things a lot simpler,.. if you DB car guys only knew how frustrating this can be...

 

Edited by 30DodgePanel (see edit history)
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On 7/21/2020 at 7:21 PM, nearchoclatetown said:

What if the serial number was D2371XX? Could you tell what year from that? I know where a truck is JUST like the one John started this thread with. I don't know the wheelbase. 

 

Doug, that frame # D2371xx that you provided could very well answer a TON of questions on this topic. Can the owner send away for a build card ? Sure would help shine some light on this topic for all of us. Can you please post a photo of the truck along with the wheelbase? 

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  • 1 month later...
On 7/21/2020 at 7:21 PM, nearchoclatetown said:

What if the serial number was D2371XX? Could you tell what year from that? I know where a truck is JUST like the one John started this thread with. I don't know the wheelbase. 

 

Any luck getting photos or more information about the truck you mentioned? 

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On 8/27/2020 at 12:00 PM, nearchoclatetown said:

 And from others that have tried recently the build cards are no longer available. Guess Fiat isn't interested. 

 

As a member of the DBC, could we plead/petition with FCA, after all the DBC is to preserve the history of the DB's?

Edited by Surf City '38 (see edit history)
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It’s a shame that this data base would be lost. I believe these cards are on micro-film.

It would be great if either the AACA, Chrysler Club, or DB Club could acquire the film.

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5 hours ago, Surf City '38 said:

 

As a member of the DBC, could we not plead/petition with FCA, after all the DBC is to preserve the history of the DB's?

Not sure why you would say that we should not have access to this information. We would only be interested in '14 to '38.  I am told this info only starts in '30 so it would not be that much. It is obvious from as far back as 2014 that FCA has no real interest in their history. The ONLY logical place for it to be if we had it would be with our other literature at AACA library. Very few of the members or even the public use the literature we already have. I see many opinions it should all be online as people are too busy or CHEAP to use the system. I doubt that it will all be scanned online. 

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19 hours ago, nearchoclatetown said:

Not sure why you would say that we should not have access to this information. We would only be interested in '14 to '38.  I am told this info only starts in '30 so it would not be that much. It is obvious from as far back as 2014 that FCA has no real interest in their history. The ONLY logical place for it to be if we had it would be with our other literature at AACA library. Very few of the members or even the public use the literature we already have. I see many opinions it should all be online as people are too busy or CHEAP to use the system. I doubt that it will all be scanned online. 

 

Never said "should not", quite the opposite actually. Have used the services of the library often, even living 3,500 miles away with 3 time zones. And would be happy to access anything online behind a pay wall...its worth it to get restorations correct, and honor the engineers original intent...Cheers.

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If the AACA / DBC library had what I needed I'd gladly be a buyer. I've searched the catalog and database countless times but still see the same literature.  I have everything the AACA/DBC has on file and more..., (and no it wasn't cheap to accumulate) but I do not need to purchase duplicates or copies from the AACA.... I'm sorry, but that is the truth. What most of us need is more time away from work or family life, while being disciplined enough to donate the information we may have promised over the years. I know we all (DB/GB truck owners) need to somehow get more focused on contributing so we can help each other more consistently. We all know it but few of us act on it, and I confess, I'm just as guilty as anyone. 

 

However, life is hectic for most of us in these trying times.  Most of us do not have the financial luxury of spending quality time on these things throughout each day, week, months or even years without effecting our personal lives in a negative or neglectful way. It is true that every generation experience challenges but todays challenges come at all of us from every direction and the intensity is not letting up anytime soon from what I see. Computers and technology were meant to save us time and enhance our lives, but do not try convincing those of us who are not financially independent of this fallacy. Years are starting to pass before I realize how much I have missed and how much I would love to be accomplishing in the research and donation departments, but my family and household will always come first over research. Until I personally get the time to donate what I have in my library it is unfortunately going to affect my truck brethren in the DBC.... but Lord knows it is not intentional.  I openly admit my shortcomings to donate but those who know me know that I would love to spend each waking hour studying and donating, buying, selling and sharing the information because I know it serves no one's best interest collecting dust on a shelf. Simply put, research IS my passion, but I have little time for it. As we reflect on some of the good men before us who had a passion for research, many of whom had literature locked away for years only to have it found once they passed,  it is hard for most of us to understand and accept why they would hoard it to themselves.  I do not want to be one of those who is so busy in life or one who holds onto it so tightly that only I get to experience the joy of discovery... it's not fair to anyone.... yet we are all guilty of it to some degree and we must admit it and improve on it or the research will suffer then who will we have to blame but ourselves.

 

As for the WPC Museum? I was not aware that they no longer provide build cards until I read the post above. If true, it is really disgusting to put it bluntly. They have taken what I've described in the previous paragraph to a new level of historical neglect that is beyond description and quite frankly, no one organization or entity should have the power they have to utterly destroy or deny their own history to those that have made them. Who made them? We the consumer and Mopar fanatics who have loved the brand from 1914 to the 1960/70s Mopar muscle era and even today. For some of us, the Dodge Brothers tradition of quality, power and improvement did not end in 1938... for some of us, the respect for the brand is engrained in our Automotive DNA.

 

Two years ago, I bought a 2018 RAM, not a Dodge, a Ram (still hard to say...). However, even though the name has changed, and because of my experience with less worthy trucks over the years, it has proven to me that the quality and ruggedness of the Dodge (Ram) brand was built to out preform the competition decade after decade. Let us hope they (the FCA) at least allows the Ram brand to continue that tradition or all will be lost. If not for the Ram and the Dodge Challenger/Charger FCA would not exist. Let's hope for the heart of true Dodge ownership returns and eliminates the shareholders of a foreign company who holds no respect for the Dodge brand, then the historical doors might someday be open again.

 

 

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19 hours ago, 30DodgePanel said:

If the AACA / DBC library had what I needed I'd gladly be a buyer. I've searched the catalog and database countless times but still see the same literature.  I have everything the AACA/DBC has on file and more..., (and no it wasn't cheap to accumulate) but I do not need to purchase duplicates or copies from the AACA.... I'm sorry, but that is the truth. What most of us need is more time away from work or family life, while being disciplined enough to donate the information we may have promised over the years. I know we all (DB/GB truck owners) need to somehow get more focused on contributing so we can help each other more consistently. We all know it but few of us act on it, and I confess, I'm just as guilty as anyone. 

 

However, life is hectic for most of us in these trying times.  Most of us do not have the financial luxury of spending quality time on these things throughout each day, week, months or even years without effecting our personal lives in a negative or neglectful way. It is true that every generation experience challenges but todays challenges come at all of us from every direction and the intensity is not letting up anytime soon from what I see. Computers and technology were meant to save us time and enhance our lives, but do not try convincing those of us who are not financially independent of this fallacy. Years are starting to pass before I realize how much I have missed and how much I would love to be accomplishing in the research and donation departments, but my family and household will always come first over research. Until I personally get the time to donate what I have in my library it is unfortunately going to affect my truck brethren in the DBC.... but Lord knows it is not intentional.  I openly admit my shortcomings to donate but those who know me know that I would love to spend each waking hour studying and donating, buying, selling and sharing the information because I know it serves no one's best interest collecting dust on a shelf. Simply put, research IS my passion, but I have little time for it. As we reflect on some of the good men before us who had a passion for research, many of whom had literature locked away for years only to have it found once they passed,  it is hard for most of us to understand and accept why they would hoard it to themselves.  I do not want to be one of those who is so busy in life or one who holds onto it so tightly that only I get to experience the joy of discovery... it's not fair to anyone.... yet we are all guilty of it to some degree and we must admit it and improve on it or the research will suffer then who will we have to blame but ourselves.

 

As for the WPC Museum? I was not aware that they no longer provide build cards until I read the post above. If true, it is really disgusting to put it bluntly. They have taken what I've described in the previous paragraph to a new level of historical neglect that is beyond description and quite frankly, no one organization or entity should have the power they have to utterly destroy or deny their own history to those that have made them. Who made them? We the consumer and Mopar fanatics who have loved the brand from 1914 to the 1960/70s Mopar muscle era and even today. For some of us, the Dodge Brothers tradition of quality, power and improvement did not end in 1938... for some of us, the respect for the brand is engrained in our Automotive DNA.

 

Two years ago, I bought a 2018 RAM, not a Dodge, a Ram (still hard to say...). However, even though the name has changed, and because of my experience with less worthy trucks over the years, it has proven to me that the quality and ruggedness of the Dodge (Ram) brand was built to out preform the competition decade after decade. Let us hope they (the FCA) at least allows the Ram brand to continue that tradition or all will be lost. If not for the Ram and the Dodge Challenger/Charger FCA would not exist. Let's hope for the heart of true Dodge ownership returns and eliminates the shareholders of a foreign company who holds no respect for the Dodge brand, then the historical doors might someday be open again.

 

 

 

100%

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On 8/28/2020 at 6:09 AM, Surf City '38 said:

 

As a member of the DBC, could we plead/petition with FCA, after all the DBC is to preserve the history of the DB's?

 

I personally have plead with those in charge many times and I know others have too. "Due to the many thefts of literature that occurred over the years" was always their main excuse for closing the historical library down to begin with. If they have now chosen not to release build cards to rightful owners,  that would be the equivalent of the final nail in the coffin to those of us who own DB & GB cars and trucks who need more information on our vehicles and to those of us who are researchers trying to get answers on behalf of the DB/GB community. 

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3 hours ago, nearchoclatetown said:

David, I have a copy of an email from a friend that requested research of a build card. It says at this time they are not able to do it by company guidelines. 

 

"At this time ... due to company guidelines" ? 


I guess I'll try and consider that statement as a glimmer of hope that it's only temporary. WE shall see...

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