pkhammer

Advice that you'd give a guy that WANTED an early car

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Posted (edited)
28 minutes ago, pkhammer said:

    I haven't asked about 0-60 times or 1/4 mile ETs yet either. 😜

 

Automotive writer Tom McCahill (to whom we referred

in the white-paint dicussion) is said to have invented the

0-to-60 m.p.h. measurement.  He began his reviews in 

1946, so you won't see contemporary measurements of 

0-60.  It may be that someone later has measured their

acceleration for an antique-car magazine, though.

 

In today's terms, think of lower speed and slower acceleration.

Fine for small roads out in the country, or smaller streets

in a small town.

Edited by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)

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Benefits of AACA Membership.

4 hours ago, poci1957 said:

 

Before my knowledgeable fellow members critique me note I am aware that there were popular brass era Buicks and others painted white circa 1908-10 and that coachbuilt cars could be ordered in any color desired (the excuse used for many questionable restoration color choices).  But my understanding is that in the 1920s and 1930s white was not usually used both due to the ambulance/milk truck association AND that white paints had poor durability and would turn chalky in a relatively short time.  Does anyone know if that was the case?         

Yes, it was true, white was considered appropriate for only ambulances and milk delivery trucks implying sanitary or pure and clean.  It was also the color of a child's hearse, symbolizing innocence,  The durability of white was poor, as it was for shades of red and maroon.   Driving a white car would be consider gauche, in poor taste especially if it was an expensive make.  

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 You guys know I was just kidding around about 0-60 and 1/4 mile ETs......right? I'm kind of bad about that. Last time I took something seriously was.....well, I can't remember being serious.......ever.

  So seriously, how many G's do you think an early touring can pull on a skid pad with 4 x 31 tires?

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Posted (edited)

Regarding car speeds:  While smaller cars are intended

for slower speeds, the big early cars can perform faster.

Those who were around in the day likely know more than we.

 

An older friend of mine bought a used 1918 Cadillac

when he was in college in 1939.  He still drives it and

takes it to an occasional show.  He drove it 20,000 miles before

World War II, and had it up to an indicated 75 m.p.h.  (He says

the actual speed was probably 65 to 70.)  Today's users

might rightfully be wary of such speeds, but "It doesn't feel like

an old car to me," he says, having owned it for 81 years.

 

That's he in the picture below, with the black umbrella.

 

1918 Cadillac at Winterthur show.jpg

Edited by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)
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A fellow in the Horseless Carriage Club drove a 1912 Pierce Arrow, a pretty hot car in its day.  And he didn't spare the horses; if he wanted to go 60, he went 60.  He told me he couldn't stand to have a car like my single-cylinder Cadillac, that cruises at 23 mph on a flat road and climbs 15% grades at walking speed, because it was "too damn slow".  I told him that, if I were in a hurry, I could put the Cadillac in my trailer behind my VW Touareg tow vehicle.  I could then out-accelerate, out-climb, out-run, out-corner and out-stop his Pierce, and use less gas doing so.  At the early end of the hobby, speed ain't the name of the game.

 

P.S. PK, I knew you were kidding.

 

P.P.S. The guy with the Pierce bought a single-cylinder Cadillac and a two-cylinder Buick and has learned to enjoy them.

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  I can enjoy cruising slow without a doubt. The experience of motoring along a back road on a pretty day in an open touring at 35 mph would be something I think I would immensely enjoy. 23 mph flat out and walking speed on hills would be something to be enjoyed in the company of a brass era tour perhaps but not something I think I'd enjoy just hopping in and going for a ride with the wife. For that I really want something capable of at least 40-45 mph. I think I would feel much safer. At least that's my feelings now.

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31 minutes ago, pkhammer said:

Last time I took something seriously was.....well, I can't remember being serious

 

Life is too important to take seriously. Seriousness breeds expectations, expectations that may never be met. Then you are in a fine fix!

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13 hours ago, John_S_in_Penna said:

He drove it 20,000 miles before

World War II, and had it up to an indicated 75 m.p.

 

That would have been making one hell of a racket, but with the right rear end (3 were offered from the factory) I wouldn't be surprised if you could do it 

 

I have my daily driver if I want to go fast, that does 0-60 in under 5 seconds. Though it's pretty funny when I tell people that my 2 door coupe, RWD, manual, v8 is my 'slow car' :P

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18 hours ago, pkhammer said:

  I can enjoy cruising slow without a doubt. The experience of motoring along a back road on a pretty day in an open touring at 35 mph would be something I think I would immensely enjoy. 23 mph flat out and walking speed on hills would be something to be enjoyed in the company of a brass era tour perhaps but not something I think I'd enjoy just hopping in and going for a ride with the wife. For that I really want something capable of at least 40-45 mph. I think I would feel much safer. At least that's my feelings now.

In the twenties and early thirties an important performance measure of a car was torque and smoothness in the ability to lug down to slow speeds and back up without downshifting. With non-synchronized transmissions a lot of people did not know how to properly downshift so the cars with larger displacement engines were seen as a sign of luxury and refinement. Even after synchromesh became common in the mid thirties people valued a car that could stay in third gear most of the time. Part of this same equation was the use of stump-pulling high numerical rear axle ratios that supported the torque need but really limited top speeds. My 34 Chevy has 4.11 rear gears and lugs down pretty good with a small six but is pretty busy sounding at 45 mph, 40 works better for me.

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Teaching my wife to drive the A this past weekend, her prior manual tran experience on late model Hondas, it went fine except she instinctually tried the 2 to 1 downshift, some grinding to remind me I missed that fine point in the teaching process!  PK know this but once you get to 12 or 15 or so mph in an A you should be in 3rd and rest is pretty smooth.   I would think same on a lot of 20s cars

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  Yes. When I say I'd like something capable of 40-45 mph that is not necessarily the speed I'd feel the need to cruise. 30-35 is very relaxed in a Model A for instance but it's nice to have the ability to go a bit faster if need be.

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You asked about a Hudson Super 6. I made mention of the Studebaker Big Six, but to be honest to get the same level of performance that was available with the Hudson in 1916 you would have to jump all the way up to 1919-20 in the Studebaker. A friend had a 1917 Super 6 touring car that was one of the best teens, tour cars that I've experienced. 

 

Bill

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The Hudson Super Six is a popular choice for many participants in the Great Race, and a number of winners too.

IMG_7022.JPG

23 trng glass plate.jpg

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On 6/16/2020 at 2:25 PM, John_S_in_Penna said:

He drove it 20,000 miles before

World War II, and had it up to an indicated 75 m.p.h.

 

At a National Pierce Arrow Society meet, I was behind a fellow member that had his 1918 48-B-5 Pierce Arrow 4 passenger roadster with that monster of a 6 cylinder in it.

When we got on the highway he ran off and left us and I was doing 60 - 65 in our '29 Pierce.

Ours was wound up pretty good at that speed and I didn't want to push it so he just ran away from us.

So the big cars from the teens could very well run at high speed all day long.

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7 hours ago, zepher said:

 

At a National Pierce Arrow Society meet, I was behind a fellow member that had his 1918 48-B-5 Pierce Arrow 4 passenger roadster with that monster of a 6 cylinder in it.

When we got on the highway he ran off and left us and I was doing 60 - 65 in our '29 Pierce.

Ours was wound up pretty good at that speed and I didn't want to push it so he just ran away from us.

So the big cars from the teens could very well run at high speed all day long.

 

 

Big brass can and does run like the wind....up mountains and along the highways. Just remember one thing.......the cars that can do this were .0001 percent of what was being sold new back then. And almost every one of the cars that survive are owned by very, very experienced owners who have been running them for years. Driving early cars at the margins of their envelope can be safe.....with experience. The car your are referring to was driven buy a collector with well over 50 years behind the wheel of pre war cars, and he knows what he is doing. It's not a machine for everybody. And, as far as your 29 getting left behind.............we can fix that! Just have to do a few simple and hidden factory directed modifications.........."drive it like you stole it!"

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Posted (edited)
On 6/16/2020 at 5:02 PM, pkhammer said:

 And 0-60 depended on how steep the hill was to roll down?

And hope the local Farmer isn't driving his cows and prize bull across the road at the bottom. Steaks and Hamburger anyone? Dandy Dave! 

Edited by Dandy Dave (see edit history)

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  Thanks for sharing the link. Nothing against Chevys but they are aren't on my short "wanted" list. They are however on my long "not wanted" list. The short list is:

  -Studebaker Big Six, Hudson Super Six, Buick Six, Chrysler and Dodge, in that order. Yes, I suppose I'm being pretty narrow minded but if I'm going to buy a collector car, I'm going to be very picky. It has been proven in a short amount of time that they are out there in and available for what I want to spend, I just need to find the right one in the right location.

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Talk of the Pierce reminds me of Ernie Crutcher's early teens Pierce. Sadly Ernie passed away last year, but Ernie behind the wheel of that car are the things of which legends are made. Having ridden in it I can attest that those legends were well earned!

 

Bill

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I did not read all of the other posts but will throw my 2 cents. A good friend of mine who died two years ago at 94 did a lot of touring in this era of cars in the 1960-80s. He had a 13 Overland, 17 Dodge, 23 Buick and 26 Chrysler. All were tourings. He sold the Buick as he did not like it. His favorite was the 26 Chrysler with the six. It has four wheel hydraulic brakes, cruises all day at 45mph but will do 55. He had some 50’s Chrysler overdrives for it but never put them in. In the 1960’s he drove the Chrysler from Ohio to California and back. In the 1970’s he convinced another good friend who is still living to buy a 25 Chrysler touring. I rode in both on tours in West Virginia. Other than some tricky adjustments to the hydraulic brakes, they were great.  The 26 was given to another mutual friend who plans to retire next year and get it running again and add the Overdrive. That should allow 55 mph comfortably along with good braking with the four wheel hydraulics. For the money the Chrysler sixes are the best cars of that era in my opinion. 

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  My friend and neighbor Chris Props texted me last night and said he had their '21 Dodge ready to go and did we want to go along on a ride this morning? Well, YES!! So Chris, my wife and I took off for a jaunt along some back roads here in western Va with the top down and the wind in our hair. Motoring along at 30 mph was about where the car liked to be. Even though it was relatively cool out (70 degrees) the car got a little warm and started spitting a little antifreeze. Chris adjusted the mixture and little richer and slowed to around 25 mph and the car settled down and ran cooler. We later put the top up and that was nice to keep the sun off our heads. When we hit hills the little Dodge slowed but chugged on up in high gear. The car rode well, was pretty quiet for an open car and the wife and I both enjoyed the experience a great deal! It did reinforce my thoughts that a car with a six cylinder engine having a bit more power would probably be more to my liking. Time to find MY car!

  The first photo is of Chris and my wife ready to go.

  The second photo we stopped at a little country Church to check things over.

  The third photo of the little short fat guy, that is me having a great time!

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 I shot a video this morning at the Stokesville, Va Railroad station which still stands next to the old railroad bridge over the North River. The rails were long ago taken up and the bridge still carries one way vehicle traffic. Perfect setting for the little '21 Dodge. I can't figure out how to upload the video however. 😞

102_4044.JPG

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We were ready to have you do the same with my 1925 Buick Standard yesterday.

DSCF8184.thumb.JPG.c2e921420b0a0304dde16994ecc156d5.JPG

I had hoped that the Master was back on the road for you to try but I procrastinated and just got the engine buttoned up last night.

 Next time.

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