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23 hours ago, Mark Wetherbee said:

Just for a comparison, there’s a much more desirable 1930 on eBay 

 

Can anyone provide a link to that project, please...................      -    Carl 

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3 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

 

Wasn't implying it should be trashed....the reality is that the parts dealers won't want any body or tin.........they usually will just take hard parts. Can it go back together? Maybe, if it's all there......apart forty years........wouldn't bet on it. A turn key driver is 15k, why spend five years and 20k assembling the car......it is what it is..........

I’m not disagreeing but you would reassemble for the fun of it. A true amateur restoration.  Not about the money.  Will be 100 years old soon 

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Thanks, Greg. I don't think I could add anything beyond Mark's summation. I might say that when I weep over these now neglected projects, I am reminded of the description in song, of bad, bad Leroy Brown when they pulled him off of the floor.   -   Carl 

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I will tackle them all for 2 grand,the hobby is about fun,the love of history,if you think about money,call your broker.The money left awhile ago.I would love to see that car together.The only ones making cash,caretakers,shops,and brokers.

Edited by old car fan (see edit history)
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As  for  the  Hupp  wheels, wood was  standard  wire  and  disc  was  an  option.  As  for  the  Cadillac. The  frame  looks  like its  painted  as  well as the  springs. Notice  the  mufflers standing  on the  wall. They  look in  fair  shape.If  the  engine  is  complete  and  together that  alone  is  worth  the  2  grand. I  live  in  N.H. I  have  more  cars  than  any  man  needs BUT this car  just  begs  to  be  saved.

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19 hours ago, GregLaR said:


Thank you for posting this, here’s the main picture of this eBay car. I feel that the OP car is possibly in much better original condition although I think the age makes a world of difference in the desirability. If the interior is still in the 22, and if reassembled it could be made a reliable driver it would be a great starter car for an interested youngster with the ability to do that work but we all know how scarce they are... And it would have to be priced at a cost point where that person would be able to get it together lest it be in that condition for eternity. Personally, I still love these kinds of sedans but I also know my limitations. I think your Hupmobile is incredible and by far the better one to hold on to! Good luck!

92A83FC1-92C3-4C59-BCCC-778CBEC5F7D7.png

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19 hours ago, B Jake Moran said:

I’m not disagreeing but you would reassemble for the fun of it. A true amateur restoration.  Not about the money.  Will be 100 years old soon 

 

Go for it. It's right there. You've been wanting a Full Classic for a long time. I guarantee this car can be bought for very little money, especially if you're going to put it back together. What's stopping you? Jump in!

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  20 hours ago, B Jake Moran said:

I’m not disagreeing but you would reassemble for the fun of it. A true amateur restoration.  Not about the money.  Will be 100 years old soon 

As a sidenote:  The car will be 100 years old soon and I assume the person who wrote this will be 100 years old soon too ???   I would love to be doing a car at age 100.  You hear a lot of people complaining from really everyone about "they must be selling stuff at a certain age", but having handled 100's of probate estates it really is not any issue - just put a letter in the car with the instructions on how to do it as usually the person who just died knows the best way to get rid of X (especially when specific club members or ... want it). 

 
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call me crazy,

 

I like the 1922 Cadillac, and have restored many a car for my personal use, with never a thought of selling, fyi, yes a sedan is much like a boat, just hull in the water to throw money in, yet, there are so few prefect days to drive an open car, that a sedan is very nice for the not so prefect days.

 

I offered $3,500.00 and only response I received was, where did I live, so, my guess is, $3,500.00 will not buy it, oh well...

Edited by j m davis phd (see edit history)
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On 6/11/2020 at 11:53 AM, Mark Wetherbee said:

Just for a comparison, there’s a much more desirable 1930 on eBay with the kind of pictures that everyone is looking for. Sadly I don’t think anyone would be bidding even at its price point which is far far less than it would have been 10-15 years ago. This kind of project is what seems to be coming out of the woodwork now as their value even restored is tanking.

 

As Mark accurately predicted, there was no interest at all at $8500 in todays soft and tanking market. At zero bids, the ceiling on this car was not established, much less the '22. The engine on the '22 has been sitting for 40+ years. It may be frozen also. In any case, if not already dismantled, it will need to be at least partially dismantled. Serious expensive damage to valve train components will result from turning the engine for more than a fraction of a degree. Ask Stuart, (Hidden Hunter), about this vulnerability.

 

All things considered, including the effort and expense of packing and transporting all these parts, I think Dr. Davis made a fair and realistic,perhaps generous, offer, at, over or near the ceiling of the "market value" for this project these days. Economic and pandemic conditions, along with the continuing downward trend of Nickel Era project  cars, will further erode the valuation with the passage of time.

 

No, when we all wake up to find that 2020 is NOT 10-15 years ago, Matt Harwood 's expert recommendation will be seen as accurate. I was offered a similar project of a LATE '27 (the very best of the model 314s) Cadillac sedan for $3000 about 5 years ago. I declined, but it did sell. A couple years earlier, I had found a mid-period '27 Cadillac sedan needing attention to an overheating problem. Most of you know the car. Nickel Era cars were already in decline, and I was the only person who went to see it. Totally original down to the paint, etc. Truly superb condition, I paid $12,000 for it. As per S.O.P. I kept dismantling things in order to take care of the known problem, and known unknown problems all old cars have. Approximately another 12 in, and I can drive this car anywhere. 

 

Good luck to both buyer and seller of this parts pile. Should have been left alone. Here is what I bought :

 

 

 

 

EA2158B7-9E83-45A9-B225-24B2621BD993.jpeg

34223B8B-1A5F-42EA-9292-C44859914EE3.jpeg

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I would also consider reassembling this car as an interesting and fun project. I have the time, money and mechanical skill but I'm afraid that I am completely lacking in the woodwork skill this car would require. 😫

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29 minutes ago, GregLaR said:

I would also consider reassembling this car as an interesting and fun project. I have the time, money and mechanical skill but I'm afraid that I am completely lacking in the woodwork skill this car would require. 😫


From what little can be seen in the pictures it could be very sound as far as the wood. If you are serious about it you should see about better pictures of the body and interior. The paint on the portion showing looks like it still has some gloss which is a good sign and if it has been apart that long it’s an even better sign as sedans were considered “good parts cars” for the open cars that were popular. 

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Mark,

            Just to clarify, anything I've ever put my hand to that is built of wood generally ends up resembling nothing so much as a clubhouse built by the Little Rascals.

(measure twice, cut eleven times, still wrong, buy more wood, measure six times, cut it wrong again, head to fridge for beer, the end).

Edited by GregLaR (see edit history)
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9 minutes ago, GregLaR said:

(measure twice, cut eleven times, still wrong, buy more wood, meaure six times, cut it wrong again, head to fridge for beer, the end).

 

Stop stealing my process.

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7 hours ago, RansomEli said:

Regarding the 1930 Cadillac on eBay...

 

There were zero bids at the starting price of $8,500.  

 

That would establish a ceiling price on the '22 Cadillac.


Minus the adjustment that 1930 Caddy is about twenty five times more desirable..........sadly, the nickel era cars are taking a pounding ...........but then again, ANY project short of a class winner capable car at Pebble is between difficult and almost impossible to sell. Good news.....there are a lot of good cars available now, at numbers that resemble the late 70’s and early 80’s.

 

 

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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On 6/12/2020 at 3:35 PM, C Carl said:

Thanks, Greg. I don't think I could add anything beyond Mark's summation. I might say that when I weep over these now neglected projects, I am reminded of the description in song, of bad, bad Leroy Brown when they pulled him off of the floor.   -   Carl 

 

 

Quote

looked like a jigsaw puzzle With a couple of pieces gone

 

Pretty accurate description of a disassembled project car  🤣

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7 hours ago, GregLaR said:

Mark,

            Just to clarify, anything I've ever put my hand to that is built of wood generally ends up resembling nothing so much as a clubhouse built by the Little Rascals.

(measure twice, cut eleven times, still wrong, buy more wood, measure six times, cut it wrong again, head to fridge for beer, the end).

 

 

Norm Grabowski, "inventor" of the T-bucket hot rod, apparently wasn't very skilled or experienced when he built it.  He used to joke he modified the chassis by cutting some off the front and welding it on the back.  😄

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On 6/12/2020 at 11:29 AM, edinmass said:

 

 

Wasn't implying it should be trashed....the reality is that the parts dealers won't want any body or tin.........they usually will just take hard parts. Can it go back together? Maybe, if it's all there......apart forty years........wouldn't bet on it. A turn key driver is 15k, why spend five years and 20k assembling the car......it is what it is..........

 

 

Interesting.  My experience has been mostly Model A and pre-war V8 Fords.  In that world, mechanical parts are common - it's the sheet metal that's desirable.  Maybe it's different in Cadillac land?

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2 hours ago, CHuDWah said:

 

 

Interesting.  My experience has been mostly Model A and pre-war V8 Fords.  In that world, mechanical parts are common - it's the sheet metal that's desirable.  Maybe it's different in Cadillac land?


 

Many people don’t realize that big cars often have three or four times as many parts, and the complicated construction makes them much, much more work in both time and money when it comes to restoration. Basically a rough big car just isn’t a good candidate for saving. How many survivors today also goes back to the early days of collecting cars............machines that were not very good drivers didn’t get saved..........brass and steam are different heads...........nickel ended up being mostly difficult to deal with, low on power, poor suspension, steering, and brakes. Add in straight cut gears and many people found them “too difficult to drive”. In reality nickel cars are fine.......if taken in context to when they were built, and one has the skills to deal with them. Fast forward to a 1932 Packard or similar eight cylinder car..........and you have something that’s ten times more modern and drivable. Add in that they have style and you see how the hobby evolved. There are very few Cadillacs that survive from the 1921-1926 era........and the ones that do very seldom are touring or getting out. Naturally there are cars that are the exception to the rule in every era, but in general the years from 1915 to 1927 are under represented in the hobby.......and there were some very interesting things built then. Also, 1915 to 1927 is when the big sorting out occurred and most of the thousands of car companies went the way of the Dodo.  

 

 

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22 hours ago, RansomEli said:

Regarding the 1930 Cadillac on eBay...

 

There were zero bids at the starting price of $8,500.  

 

That would establish a ceiling price on the '22 Cadillac.

Hasn't this 1930 Sedan been for sale for like 6 plus months plus or does it just seem that way ?  

 

And, it just depends on what is needed in woodwork in this 1930 - you have to be pretty dedicated to your project if woodwork is involved (in any car) - not fun to shred a body apart matched to acres of chrome, countless pieces of die cast, expensive parts, detailed upholstery, and ... - yes, they are beautiful and impressive cars when done, but most people are just not geared to restoring them. 

 

By the way, the 22 Cadillac is a far better choice if you were looking at both cars, the only real roadblock with the 22 Cadillac is transporting it.   My guess is its problems are not too bad and other than possible mechanical work it could probably be reassembled pretty straight forward.  Keep in mind there was a period of time when people wanted to restore everything and plenty did not need it - if this is one of those cars it makes for a nice project. 

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21 hours ago, j m davis phd said:

 

I offered $3,500.00 and only response I received was, where did I live, so, my guess is, $3,500.00 will not buy it, oh well...

You may want to answer the question of where you live - maybe he will deliver or ... - you just never know ....

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19 minutes ago, John_Mereness said:

You may want to answer the question of where you live - maybe he will deliver or ... - you just never know ....

oh, I did answer his question,

 

I am about 500 miles away and have a nice big trailer, help to load the Cadillac, cash, and confidence of what the old caddy is...and what is needed, 

 

just crickets, and have sent a couple more private messages with it no reply, I will be passing on it.

Edited by j m davis phd (see edit history)
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2 minutes ago, j m davis phd said:

oh, I did answer his question,

 

I am about 500 miles away and have a nice big trailer, help to load the Cadillac, cash, and confidence of what the old caddy is...and what is needed

 

No answer after answering his question, just crickets

Well, give the fellow time if you are really interested or prompt him in another day - he is in a difficult spot as he probably wants more for the car, but is new to all of this and not familiar with how problematic it is to restore such things, much less even get them bought and picked up.  Realistically, his best bet would be to find someone VERY local willing to deal with the car, but even they will want a discount given issues. 

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Well...I think you made a very fair offer. If the seller wants more, I wish him luck. Personally, I would like an early V8 Cadillac - especially if its "pre-potmetal" and the fact that early 20s Cadillacs have very little bright work is a plus to me. But...I'm unusual in having the skills and tools to reassemble it and not caring about shows or what anyone else thinks so I'm quite happy that the prices on this era car are tanking. In any case, having no place to work on it, I'm not really a potential customer for this or any additional car but I may be able to build a garage at some point and when I do, I'll be looking for a nickel era sedan to fill it.

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If  that is  a true  picture of the  car  before it  was taken  apart, with  the  offers  he  has  gotten, I  would  keep  the  car.

 

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Parts availability on the 1922 Cadillac is ZERO, and it’s been disassembled for thirty five or forty years. What ever is missing will take years to locate.....and unless you intimately familiar with a V-63, it will prove almost impossible to finish. Any offer is a good offer. Reality will set in, sooner or later. It’s understandable the family is having a hard time processing the information, as often times people have been told the contents of the garage are “gold”. I have seen it countless times.

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It’s entirely possible that the two opinions expressed in the last 3 posts are both in a way correct.

 

I personally do not sell cars that I own for a lot of reasons based on my own experiences. I had one car that was worth less whole and running than its two curved-glass rear windows. So what would a complete engine for this go for anyway? (No, I am NOT suggesting parting this out.)

 

Based on my experience of having to dispose of items owned by others, which I had no real idea of their actual value, I’ve learned to only listen to offers made by people with the gumption to show up and look at them — after they’ve showed up and looked at them.

 

I could write a book on the reasons why....

This Cadillac is right up my alley, but entirely beyond my skill. Some cars choose their owners, I have a feeling this one will end up in the right hands.

Ben P.

Edited by Ben P.
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1 hour ago, Ben P. said:

Based on my experience of having to dispose of items owned by others, which I had no real idea of their actual value, I’ve learned to only listen to offers made by people with the gumption to show up and look at them — after they’ve showed up and looked at them.

 

Good point, Ben:  Make sure the prospective

buyer is serious.

 

However, if I'm a considerable distance away, 

I do just the opposite.  I won't go to look at a car

unless the seller and I are very close on the price,

or have an agreed figure subject to my inspection.

I don't want to travel for hours, or get on a plane,

unless I know that the trip will be fruitful.

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There is a 1929 Cadillac 341-B five passenger Victoria coupe by Fisher about two miles from here that was disassembled in the 1970's including the engine.  Its now been wished off on the grand-nephew of the prior owner.  The grand-nephew still entertains notions of a restoration himself although the has not the shop, tools and worst skills to do it.  Encouragement to pass it onto a Cadilac collector with the resources and skills necessary have mostly fallen on deaf ears, even after cuing him in on how costly a proper restoration will be.

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On 6/13/2020 at 6:45 AM, Jim Skelly said:

That Hupmobile is real sharp and a keeper.  i would take that over the Chevelle, and I grew up in the muscle car era.  

 

As for the Cadillac, you might stand a better chance of someone saving it if it's advertised on the Cadillac LaSalle Message Forum:

 

http://forums.cadillaclasalleclub.org/

I want them all! My wife..........................not so much! 🤣

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On 6/13/2020 at 11:33 AM, j m davis phd said:

call me crazy,

 

I like the 1922 Cadillac, and have restored many a car for my personal use, with never a thought of selling, fyi, yes a sedan is much like a boat, just hull in the water to throw money in, yet, there are so few prefect days to drive an open car, that a sedan is very nice for the not so prefect days.

 

I offered $3,500.00 and only response I received was, where did I live, so, my guess is, $3,500.00 will not buy it, oh well...

Sorry J M davis, I didn't know your offer was only valid for 15 hours lol.  I have been buried in my shop since friday working on my Chevelle, my apologies to you sir.  To be fair for everyone my mother and brother were supposed to pull everything out and get pictures of everything so nobody has any surprises.  The car is 350 miles away from me and I can't just drive over and snap some pictures.  My mother is the executor and she will have the final say.  I am just here to try and get it to a good home where someone will put her back together.

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On 6/14/2020 at 9:22 AM, John_Mereness said:

Well, give the fellow time if you are really interested or prompt him in another day - he is in a difficult spot as he probably wants more for the car, but is new to all of this and not familiar with how problematic it is to restore such things, much less even get them bought and picked up.  Realistically, his best bet would be to find someone VERY local willing to deal with the car, but even they will want a discount given issues. 

 

We are not out to make money on this thing.  It will end up going to the highest offer from someone that doesn't want to part it out .  It would be a shame to part this thing out.

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Having been doing this for many years, I've learned that in many cases, the first offer is usually the best offer. The longer it sits, the less likely it is to find a home. I'm sure moving the car will be a relief to your mother, so I'd encourage her to simply cut it loose and get it out of there so it's no longer a source of concern for anyone. The advice you're getting here is good--there's no pot of gold here, just get it gone.

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to keep things honest and clear, my first, private message to the seller, included my phone number,  and had hoped they would have called, I did send three more messages with no response, and 4 days later and three more messages to the seller, I did a message today, with an explanation,

 

all is good, there are several family members involved, I wish them good luck with their sale, headed back to the shop, finishing up the old Lincoln touring

 

sorry to have troubled the seller and wish them well

 

fyi, IMHO, this old girl deserves to be restored despite the reality of what it is worth when done, but the smiles per mile on a cool fall day is priceless

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