Glass Side Curtains 25 Buick

[carmover]

Does Anybody know how to disassemble the glass side curtains.I need to replace several broken glasses and don't see any way to get the glass out.I would think they would have made them more serviceable.All I see is they are braided and see nothing removable on them. Am I missing Something? Any Help will be much appreciated.

[Hubert_25-25]

Ron, 

    Do you have any photos?  Even some detail shots would be helpful.   Hugh

[carmover]

Hugh, I tried this morning to get some pics but my camera needed the battery charged.I will get some detailed shot of them shortly.I cleaned them all up yesterday with Mcguires Cleaner and Conditioner and installed them on the car.I have a total of three glasses that I need to replace.

 

[carmover]

Edited June 1, 2020 by carmover (see edit history)

[carmover]

I am a little nervous about fooling with these especially the original leather which is in good condition.I am using one as a Guinea Pig and am being very careful to peel back just enough leather to reveal the corners.You would think that even in 25 they would have put some type of screws in one end so you could remove one piece to replace replace the glass which I would think that was often with the plate glass.They did put a lot of thought in them as to the adjust ability and tight fit. Once they are in they are are quite water proof and you don't get a lot of wind noise but you do get some glass rattle.

[carmover]

I think I got it figured out.The bottom window channel holds in both glasses and after removing the jute packing I found three wood screws that holds the channel in.After removing the screws the channel comes out from the rear with the glass with no damage to the unit.There were two wood screws on the lower rear panel and after removing the screws the panel has enough room for the channel to come by it.I am breathing easier since the 96 year old leather was left unscathed.

[Hubert_25-25]

Ron, 

     Good to know that you were able to open the vault and not disturb the leather.  Those look to be in excellent shape.    Hugh

[carmover]

Thanks Hugh, They are in real good shape and I designed  a rolling rack to store them in when not in use that I am in process of building.On the rear one the glass is held in with a felt bead around it that is tacked in that makes it easier to install glass in as it can be its own template. My exploratory surgery on the rear of them will be easy to repair and made perfect.

[bradsan]

Ron

 

Not only do they likely function better than the soft top side curtains but they look about a 1000X better from an aesthetic point of view!

Do the curtains ( windows is more like it ) actually open with the doors without extra effort ? Or are there snaps to undo first?

 

The 25A is a nice looking car. I think it belongs in Vancouver BC where it rains all the time and folding tops are quite impractical!

 

Brad

[carmover]

Brad once they are installed they open perfectly with the doors and have handles on each one to close the doors from the inside. Also the door glasses slide so they can be open or closed.By the way that casting I got from you came out perfect and is residing under the hood on the rebuilt engine.I can't thank you enough!

[carmover]

I thought it would be interesting to explain the installation and operation a little farther.If you look at the sixth picture you will see the slide rod that runs the length of the window .This lets the spring pin slide so the whole curtain can be moved forward  or backward.Without this adjustability it would be a nightmare to install these and be able to open and close the doors.The triangle far rear window has to be installed first and tapped all the way back and has two eyelets on the bottom for two machine screws.Once these are in there is a lever at the top that you turn over and it locks in a slot.Then rear door  glass can be installed.First you insert the rear spring pin in the hole on the top of the door and line up the front collar with the two tapped holes on the door and install a bolt on both sides.The front installs the same way as the back one does except it has to be snapped on the two pins on the back of the windshield frame and finally the windshield tilt wingbolt must be removed and inserted into the top hole and the wingbolts are then reinstalled.Also I forgot to mention that the wind wings have to be removed before installing these on the car.

[bradsan]

Ben

 

I believe Ron's car is an original 25A which meant it came from the factory with a 'California Top " or , as it later came to be known just plain old 'hardtop' ( okay , the windows don't roll down like they did from the 50's onward but you get the idea!)

Why they call it a California Top when California seems like the least likely place you would need a hard top with glass window side curtains is beyond me. Seems like they could have picked a better name for a jurisdiction where the soft top is least likely to go down like Michigan Top or even, dare I say , Vancouver Top!

 

Brad

[bradsan]

Ron

 

I'm glad the block was put to good use.

Thanks for the detailed description of the side curtain workings. I guess the only downside to the glass side curtains is that once you've decided how to venture out for the day, you can't change your mind! Unless you tow a storage trailer behind you.

I'm going to guess that your car also has the exhaust-powered floor heater. If you have the heater, did you make it functional? I have a spare heater from a 25-21 but Mr Safety says I'm not allowed to install it for fear of asphyxiating the passenegers

 

Brad

[Hubert_25-25]

I understand the 25 A was a 1 year only phenomenon.  $75 more than a model 25.  The model 25 5 passenger touring was $1,175 . If you never folded the top - which was I am sure most people, you got glass windows and a rear seat heater/asphyxiator.  If you wanted rollup windows and still 4 doors, you went for the model 27, but then you had to cough up another roughly $500, nearly half the value of the car.   I understand that many of the 25A models went into police service.  As I am doing my side curtains, 1925 was also  the last year (I think) for using celluloid for the side curtain windows.  Celluloid was brittle, yellowed, and could not be bent too far.  The reason for the window panes was to be able to fold the side curtains as well.  They must have come out with another plastic window in 1926 as that seems to be when the window bars disappeared and became full panels of plastic.      

Hugh   

 

[carmover]

People complained to Buick about the convertible tops saying that they loved the surrey type tops in the summer but never cared to put the tops down and would freeze to death in the winter with the plastic curtains.Buick's answer was the enclosed touring which had a soft top just like the convertible but had solid runners and was not foldable and had these glass windows and a rear seat heater.They made a total of 4450 Tourings and 1725 enclosed Roadsters which 2000 Tourings and 1000 Roadsters were exported so these were rare even in 25. They were not the hit that Buick thought they would be and didn't return for 26.

20 hours ago, bradsan said:

Ron

 

I'm glad the block was put to good use.

Thanks for the detailed description of the side curtain workings. I guess the only downside to the glass side curtains is that once you've decided how to venture out for the day, you can't change your mind! Unless you tow a storage trailer behind you.

I'm going to guess that your car also has the exhaust-powered floor heater. If you have the heater, did you make it functional? I have a spare heater from a 25-21 but Mr Safety says I'm not allowed to install it for fear of asphyxiating the passenegers

 

Brad

Brad you are right about traveling out with them as they do take up a lot of space and you can't change your mind.I have never had an interest in making the heater functional and I am missing the front floor lever and would like to put the lever in it and make it look like it works.My 23 Buick has the lever and it wouldn't be too hard to make one.

Edited June 7, 2020 by carmover (see edit history)

[carmover]

21 hours ago, Ben P. said:

Am I the only one who’s never heard of glass side curtains in an open (non-California Top) car? Or is it? I don’t see top bow saddles either.

 

Was this an option or produced for a dealer?

Beautifully done at any rate.

Ben they were a regular production in 25 designated as the 25A but weren't very successful and didn't return in 26.

[carmover]

I have always wondered how rare these 25 A cars are since I never hear of any on this Forum and the Buick Club Roster never mentioned any other than mine.

Edited June 7, 2020 by carmover (see edit history)

[dibarlaw]

Ron:

Recently there was a 1925-24A show up for sale on the forum. There was also a 1925-45A several years ago.

The example I am showing here must have been a hold over body installed on a 1926-45. We were about to buy it until we found out that it was a fixed top touring car.

Even had this unique curtain 

I thought it very strange. Since we know how many models were made of the 25-24A 25-25A, 25-44A, 25-45A, and 25-49A. No reference at all to a 1926 version. But even stranger was that the Master Parts book from 1931 shows enclosed car parts stating that they are for 1926 models.

 

Edited June 10, 2020 by dibarlaw
spelling (see edit history)

[carmover]

Larry I remember about someone talking about glass window curtains on a another car on this forum several years ago. Hugh sent me a man's name and phone number  if I remember right was in Connecticut that has a 25A and he also mentioned that you had spoken to him about the car.I am thinking of calling him and discuss his car.I would think that a 45A would be super rare and a 44A OR a 24A

would be even rarer. I have never seen a dividing curtain like that before and I don't see a 25 49 A listed in  the standard catalog of Buick. I did notice a model 26 49 enclosed Touring listed but it didn't have 

an A with it.I am thinking there must not be many of the glass curtain sets around anywhere. I have disassembled three so far and have an appointment with a glass specialist in the morning.I am hoping to replace the glass with safety glass if it is of the same width.If everything works out I am planning on changing all of the curtains with safety glass.I am hoping to find some kind of channel packing  so I can replace the old worn out packing.The only place I checked with was restoration supply catalog and didn't see anything I can use.

 

[garnetkid]

My McLaughlin 25-45A started out from the factory as a 25-45A which apparently was an option for colder climates like we have up hear in Canada.  The remnants of the fixed top were still with the car when I got it as well as the infloor exhaust heater was in the back seat floor area.  I had no desire to try to restore the fixed top and as the top bow saddle mounting brackets were still on the car, they had been cut off flush with the body sheet metal I decided  to restore the car to a folding top. 

[bradsan]

Leon

 

Those are some nice looking side curtains !

The car is not to shabby either , never get tired of seeing a photo of it.

I cant remember , did you reinstall the 'asphyxiator' and if so, is it for show or go?

 

Brad

[dibarlaw]

On 6/10/2020 at 9:09 PM, carmover said:

Larry I remember about someone talking about glass window curtains on a another car on this forum several years ago. Hugh sent me a man's name and phone number  if I remember right was in Connecticut that has a 25A and he also mentioned that you had spoken to him about the car.I am thinking of calling him and discuss his car.I would think that a 45A would be super rare and a 44A OR a 24A

would be even rarer. I have never seen a dividing curtain like that before and I don't see a 25 49 A listed in  the standard catalog of Buick. I did notice a model 26 49 enclosed Touring listed but it didn't have 

an A with it.I am thinking there must not be many of the glass curtain sets around anywhere. I have disassembled three so far and have an appointment with a glass specialist in the morning.I am hoping to replace the glass with safety glass if it is of the same width.If everything works out I am planning on changing all of the curtains with safety glass.I am hoping to find some kind of channel packing  so I can replace the old worn out packing.The only place I checked with was restoration supply catalog and didn't see anything I can use.

 

Ron: I am still trying to find his name and # as I met him at an Ice Cream place last summer at Durham, CT. He was driving a 1956 or so Dodge and so I struck up a conversation. That is when I found out he had purchased the 1925 25 A? That had been posted on the forum the previous year I believe from Long Island or NJ. His only concern about the car at the time was the distributer. I gave him all my information and he said he would contact me which he did not. I was hoping for more detailed photos.  If I remember correctly he said the top did indeed fold but had the glass curtains.  I told him the forum was the place to get answers and help. I believe he may have dozens of cars and this 1925 Buick was just another diversion.

 I had spoken to the original seller of the car but he gave me very little information other than it was his fathers. His dad fixed up the car in the 1980s and drove it for a while until there was some mechanical failure. He put it in the garage for storage and then began to pile stuff over it. So it sat for over 30 years. The photos we have are of the car in the crowded garage.

When I inquired they originally they wanted $32,000! Trippel off base as to what the value was in it's condition.

 

 

Edited June 12, 2020 by dibarlaw
Added content (see edit history)

[garnetkid]

13 hours ago, bradsan said:

Leon

 

Those are some nice looking side curtains !

The car is not to shabby either , never get tired of seeing a photo of it.

I cant remember , did you reinstall the 'asphyxiator' and if so, is it for show or go?

 

Brad

Thanks Brad,  I had the upholstery shop guy from Edmonton come down to Wetaskiwin to look and take measurements of a 24-45 that Reynolds Museaum had to replicate that into my car. To decide on the side curtains we looked at old pictures/photos of cars in that era and went with that. I like the name 'asphyxiator' very appropriate.  I never kept it as it was too far gone and the thought of keeping it never crossed my mind.  In hindsight I should have, but that was 43 years ago and I guess thought differently then.  Leon

[carmover]

13 hours ago, dibarlaw said:

Ron: I am still trying to find his name and # as I met him at an Ice Cream place last summer at Durham, CT. He was driving a 1956 or so Dodge and so I struck up a conversation. That is when I found out he had purchased the 1925 25 A? That had been posted on the forum the previous year I believe from Long Island or NJ. His only concern about the car at the time was the distributer. I gave him all my information and he said he would contact me which he did not. I was hoping for more detailed photos.  If I remember correctly he said the top did indeed fold but had the glass curtains.  I told him the forum was the place to get answers and help. I believe he may have dozens of cars and this 1925 Buick was just another diversion.

 I had spoken to the original seller of the car but he gave me very little information other than it was his fathers. His dad fixed up the car in the 1980s and drove it for a while until there was some mechanical failure. He put it in the garage for storage and then began to pile stuff over it. So it sat for over 30 years. The photos we have are of the car in the crowded garage.

When I inquired they originally they wanted $32,000! Trippel off base as to what the value was in it's condition.

 

 

Larry,If it is a real 25A it would not have a folding top unless he did what Leon did and converted it which I doubt it.Another thing is mine has snaps down the side for snap in curtains which are useless and I am wondering does Your car has the eyelet on top of the door?  Since mine has unused snaps I thought maybe Buick built all of the doors alike  to be used on different models.If that was the case someone  might have bought a set of glass windows back when they were more available and put it on a folding top car.Hugh sent ma an email with his Name and number and my curiosity is peaking so I may have to try and contact Him

Edited June 13, 2020 by carmover (see edit history)

[carmover]

I disassembled the other windows to get glass to use as patterns and took the glasses to the glass shop.They told me that they don't have any glass that thin and that all their glass is now laminated.I was hoping to use laminated glass anyway but it is  half again thicker.I got the glass cutter to cut me a sample  so I could take it Home and see if it would work in the channels.He also  has a thinner felt  that comes by the foot in a big roll.You can cut it with a razor blade and I got a sample of that as well .It turns out that The channel can handle the thicker glass bearly with the thinner felt but still can slide  perfectly.The thicker glass will cut down on the glass rattling. My only challenge is the thinner felt is not as formable as the thicker stuff and will be harder to get the wood screws back in.Also the thicker glass in the rear fixed window will not allow me to use the original bead to hold the glass in but the glass man said he could glue them in with a special glue  that would work with these materials.He assured me that this would be a lot better than tacking them in.He is going to handle the installation on those and guarantees my satisfaction.I should be getting everything back by next Thursday and will get back to work on them.The rack is coming along too and will Have a  roomy padded shelf  For each one  and the padding will allow me to place them in there leather side down so they can lay perfectly flat and protect the fragile glass. I am also including a compartment  custom made for the summer wind wings while they are removed from the car to use the windows.The rack will also feature casters so it can be easily moved around the shop.

[dibarlaw]

Ron:

Mine has the curtain rod sockets "eyelets" on top of the doors. As I said I asked plenty of questions about this Long Island car to which the former and new owner had no answers. I asked for data plate verification and never heard anything back.

[carmover]

Larry I am willing to bet it is not a real 25A.So if your's has the eyelets in the doors all of the doors are the same and could be used on either fixed top or folding top cars.I may have the only 25A in existence.At least the only running and driving one.They must not care much about that car except trying to make a killing on it at over 30 grand.I would love to know what model number is on the data plate.

[dibarlaw]

Ron:

 Sorry to disappoint you but we had this one verified several years ago. It was sold by a broker and sent to Russia.

 

 Neat looking car with Pennsylvania antique plate from the 1960s I would guess. Every body panel had red striping. Fenders. splash pans, front mud pans, headlight buckets etc. The original ad showed nothing about the glass curtains.

 When I first got my 1925-25 there were several 25As listed in the BCA roster at the time. 2011 Also several 25-24As sold over the years.

[carmover]

Thanks Larry that is a beautiful 25A now I am not feeling as lonely.I never noticed any back then in the directory I must have missed them Somehow.One thing I noticed about it at one time The Buick Club quit showing the A designation and I mentioned it To Pete Phillips and he was going to check on it at the time.The windows are a real important part of the 25A and I hope this car has them.

Edited June 14, 2020 by carmover (see edit history)

[carmover]

Has anyone received their latest Hemmings yet? I got mine this morning and in the buicks for sale section there is a 1925 Buick model 25  for sale for$16,000.It has a folding top and what appears to be Glass curtains.The car is located in Connecticut.This continues to get more confusing all the time.By the way the glass shop is finishing up my glass order to be picked up Friday Morning I am getting exited. 

Edited July 2, 2020 by carmover (see edit history)

[carmover]

I got the new Glass installed in the curtains and am happy as I can be.It was a little tricky getting the tiny wood screws down in the narrow channel and the wide glass has no room for the side packing so it has cushioning only on the bottom.I have them installed on the car and will have some pics on here  of the finished project shortly.

Edited July 10, 2020 by carmover (see edit history)

[carmover]

Here are the pics of the Glass curtains installed.Note the little tab on the sixth picture of the drivers window so the driver could slide it to hand signal turns.

Edited July 10, 2020 by carmover (see edit history)

[bradsan]

Ron

 

It looks really nice!

I'm curious how noisy it is when driving down the road. The stake bed on my 24 Model TT is an absolutely deafening cacophony of rattles ! Sounds like the truck is coming unglued.

[carmover]

Thanks Brad, I haven't gotten it out on the road since I got them all installed  but with  a few of them in while I was sorting them out I didn't notice much wind noise but did get some noticeable glass rattle.Tomorrow night I plan to take it to a local cruise in and will get a better idea about the noise but with the thicker glass I am expecting it to be a lot quieter.

Edited July 11, 2020 by carmover (see edit history)