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1928 Chrysler Model 72 Gas & Brake Line Plumbing


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OK, if you've been reading my posts I'm challenged with a basket case.  I have to run lines for the gas and hydraulic brakes and looking through the previous posts there is not much information.  Regarding the brakes I've seen photos there are flexible lines at each wheel which connect to a steel line which parallels the frame rail and is held on by some type of clip or clamp.  At some point those two lines (one on each side of the car) have to go in through the frame and connect to the master cylinder on the brake pedal.  There may also be junction points on the lines where fittings are used, those too may be clamped to the frame.  The gas line is probably a little less complex but it still has to come from the tank at the rear of the car forward to the vacuum tank.  There are places on the frame where it passes and is held in place by some type of clip or clamp and fittings may also be involved.  Any map or diagram of this would be exceedingly helpful.

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hwellens, thanks for the photo.  I was able to reference a 1928 72 owners manual and it appears the only difference is on the 72 is no t-union at the rear axle for the right and left rear.  The lines from the right and left rear wheels run up the side of the frame to the cross member where they t-union with the front and then go on to t-union again from both sides sending one line to the master cylinder.  Do you know if any of the fittings t-union or other are available from any source? 

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These pictures I took for reference of a series G70 remains that I bought for parts in Pa in 2014, sorry some are a bit fuzzy. I'm pretty sure your car will be much the same. If you look closely you will see the type of clips/clamps they used, the gas and brake and tail light wiring. also in the picture is the thin capillary pipe for the king sealy type gas gauge, which your car does not have, however I'm sure that would have been an extra wire to the gas gauge on your car.

 

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 Above shows gas pipe and 2 tail light wires hanging down

 

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Photo above shows a brake T piece bolted thru the X member, the front of the T has a metal pipe to the master cylinder. The 3 or 4 wires and conduit just right of the T piece take the wiring from the light switch at the bottom of the steering column up the firewall and behind the dash.

 

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From the front looking backwards, shows the bottom of the steering column light switch

 

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All of these pictures are showing the inside of the left side (drivers side) of the frame.

 

I will look tomorrow at my G70 frame and see if I can take more pictures, as i have not stripped the pipes out yet, they are still as it left the factory

Viv.

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44 minutes ago, leomara said:

hwellens, thanks for the photo.  I was able to reference a 1928 72 owners manual and it appears the only difference is on the 72 is no t-union at the rear axle for the right and left rear.  The lines from the right and left rear wheels run up the side of the frame to the cross member where they t-union with the front and then go on to t-union again from both sides sending one line to the master cylinder.  Do you know if any of the fittings t-union or other are available from any source? 

You need a flex hose from the frame to the rear axle or the lines would break.  Most cars would use a T union on the rear so they would only need one hose.

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I've posted a thread on this for my '31 CD8, most likely similar fittings although routing may not be identical (my front passenger side requires a line across front cross member near rad shell). As mentioned, here are the essential 3 flex hoses that are available on ebay from various sellers. I also show the T-fitting/splitter for rear axle, and the 4 way fitting at front frame which receives the lead from master cylinder and directs fluid to R/L front and to rear. On my car all lines are 1/4" standard fittings, while line to master is 5/16" steel. The 4 wheels for mine have special cast brass fittings with double copper washers and bolts drilled to permit fluid into the wheel cylinders. Note front brass fittings slope away from wheel, part of solution to ensure they don't rub when wheels are turned sharp. A final point, I used coated steel line (copper original stuff does not meet modern requirements), but it is tougher to bend (I bought a bending tool at Princeess Auto about $20) and harder to double flare than copper, so suggest buying pre-finished lengths of a variety of sizes and brass unions. Makes fitting in tight quarters easier, and fewer home-made flarings. Of course wheel cylinders will need rebuilding, shoes attention, a whole new thread. Good luck.

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My '28 series 62 has four flex lines, one at each corner. The rear does not split on the diff.

 

Also, one line from the MC goes to the left side and splits to front and rear left, and the other to the right side, again splitting front and rear. My car is RHD and has a different MC and location to the LHD cars, interestingly the MC has two output ports but it is still a single circuit.

 

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Hi Leomara,

I looked at the pre 1934 parts book today, the model 72 has 4 flexible hoses, one to each wheel, it does not have the same brake set up as Gunsmokes car. The picture above of Maok's is probably the same layout as yours.

 I have taken a ton of pictures of my late 1926 model G70 frame today and edited it for reference, for when I get around to restoring it shortly. The pipes , clamps etc are exactly as it left the factory. Your car may be the same or very similar, I suggest you look at your frame and compare it to my one. Please note mine is a right hand drive car and I have put notes on the pictures of where I think the left hand drive is different. Your car I think had an electric gas gauge, where mine was a capillary type, so where mine had clips for holding the capillary to the frame, yours probably had the same clips to hold the electrical cable.

Hope these pictures help you and maybe others restoring similar cars

Viv

 

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Although Gunsmoke did a great job using steel lines, I strongly suggest using nickel-copper lines instead.  They are not to be confused with copper lines which can become brittle and work hardened and should not be used as brake lines.  The nickel-copper (sometimes called Cunifer which I believe is a brand name) has been used on high end cars for years.  It is very easy to flare and bend,  yet is extremely strong and corrosion resistant.  It also has a pleasing coppery color that closely resembles the original copper lines.  I used it on my 32 Dodge Brothers in conjunction with an Eastwood flaring tool with great results.  I can’t recommend nickel-copper tubing and the Eastwood tool enough.  I’ll post some pictures tomorrow.

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This is the brake flaring tool from Eastwood.  It comes with dies from all the standard sized tubing and makes perfect double flares with ease.

 

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The nickel-copper lines look great and are easy to work with.

 

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These are the type of clips used to hold the lines on the frame on my car.  The clips above hold the headlight wiring.

 

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Be sure you use grommets in all areas where the lines pass through the frame to prevent chafing and rubbing through the line.

 

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Hopefully the rest of my pictures. I reached the limit yesterday.

 

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Hope these are of help, click on each picture to enlarge them or save and you can enlarge and study them.

Viv

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On 5/29/2020 at 2:12 PM, hwellens said:

You need a flex hose from the frame to the rear axle or the lines would break.  Most cars would use a T union on the rear so they would only need one hose.

Harry,

What ever happened to Bill Zerega's 1928 Model 72 roadster.  Does his son still have it?  Earl Beauchamp

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There appears to another unknown here about the size of the brake lines differing between the master cylinder and the first brake tee and what continues after that.  I've read 5/16 to the master cylinder and 1/4 after the first tee to the rest of the system.  If so does it require a special tee with 1/4 lines in from the left and right and 5/16 out to the master cylinder?  What determines these variations?  

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I would guess it's the one on the cross member where both sides come together and the output is going to the master cylinder.  Looks like 1/4 in and 5/16 out.....

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The picture of Moak's looks like the Tee on the X member that goes to the master cylinder. I searched out my 2 master cylinders today, the one that came off a LHD G70 transmission in the States has 2 outlets, one to the brakes and one to the reservoir on the firewall, this has a 3/8ths metal pipe to the above tee and ALL the pipes thru the frame to the wheel cylinders are 3/8th of an inch OD. The pipe from the reservoir to the master cylinder is smaller, I will look for the pipe tomorrow, but I think it is 5/16.

 Interestingly, my second master cylinder that I bought with a RHD pedal from Aussie, has 3 outlets, 2 to the brakes and one to the reservoir, it has fittings the same as above but 2 x 3/8 pipes to the brakes. I'm guessing this may be a later model, need to research it. 

 Old Chryslers need lots of research. Still finding new things to look at after 42 years restoring them.

 

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Just the opposite leomara, the 5/16" input line comes from the Master Cylinder and the 1/4" output lines go to the wheel cylinders. Here's the math: 1/4" O/D lines are 3/16" I/D while 5/16" O/D lines are 1/4" I/D, as both size lines have same wall thickness of 1/32". Capacity of each line is based on pressure and cross-sectional area of line. Since hydraulic pressure is equal in all directions, only the cross-sectional area is a factor in calculating capacity. A 1/4" line like these has a cross sectional area of about .028 square inches (Pi x R-squared). A 5/16" line has a cross sectional area of .049 square inches.  So a 5/16" line has 75% more cross-sectional area than a 1/4" line (.049/.028=1.75.). So basically a 5/16" line when you account for other variables (friction loss, kinks, etc) has a capacity nearly double that of a 1/4" line. That's the reason the manufacturers use the larger line to the first junction. TMI, just my Architectural/Engineering background/sickness!!

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The t piece is one of two that go through each side chassis frame, no cross member t piece in my rhd car. As viv mentioned , the rhd MC has two output ports, each port goes to one of these T pieces for left and right sides, not front and back. I will need to check but memory of the line sizes is that they are the same except the one from the brake fluid reservoir to the MC, which is smaller, 0.25" IIRC.

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Hi Guys,

 Been looking thru the pre 1934 parts list again today and there are so many variables that we need to go back to step one.

 Leomara, first thing, I need to clarify the Fedco number on the dashboard of your car, as there are changeovers in production, then from there we can try and work out what you have and what you need. The parts book shows several diagrams, showing brake line layouts on the frames and each diagram says which model used that design. Chrysler made so many changes on the cars in the early years it becomes difficult to find exactly what was fitted.

 Gunsmoke, I see your reasoning on brake pipe sizes, but, on both the master cylinders I have, the pipe from the reservoir to the master cylinder is smaller than the outlet pipes to the brakes. I checked the parts book and the inlet and outlet unions have different part numbers, so they were different for a reason. On ALL these unions listed in the book, there is no mention of 2 outlet unions being used on ANY master cylinders, and yet both Moak and I have master cylinders with this configuration.

  I will look again today and see what I can figure out.

Viv

 

 

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Posted (edited)

By 1931, the "reservoir" was part of the master cylinder unit and the passage to the piston/cylinder area is internal, the unit has a vent on top of the filler bolt on top of reservoir as shown here (I have installed a temporary modern vent). I'm not familiar with models that use a separate cowl mounted fluid reservoir, but assume the line from the reservoir to the MC would be gravity fed, not pressurized. The brake light switch goes in the spare hole shown. 

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Edited by Gunsmoke (see edit history)
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On 6/1/2020 at 11:56 AM, Dynaflash8 said:

Harry,

What ever happened to Bill Zerega's 1928 Model 72 roadster.  Does his son still have it?  Earl Beauchamp

Yes, His son has the 28 Chrysler.

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Good morning all,

 I've been looking at my G70 again and confess I need new glasses 😂.

The pipes from the master cylinder to the x member Tee and the pipes from the x member Tee to the side rail Tees are all 3/8th OD.

The pipes from the side rail Tees to the front and back brakes are 5/16th OD, sorry for my previous post.

 The pipe from the master cyl to the reservoir on the firewall is 5/16th OD

 The gas pipe from the tank to the autovac is 5/16th OD.

 Viv

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This has been a real discovery process.  I've read brake lines have been in 1/4, 5/16 and 3/8 sizes.  Then there is the 1/4 size all the way around except from the last tee to the master cylinder which was 5/16.  It's hard to understand why Chrysler would have varied so much in such a short period of time.  I'm puzzled......

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These early Chrysler"s do vary a lot and the passage of time does not help either, as cars have been modified and upgraded over the last 90 years.

 Leomara, as a suggestion, there have been a few posts in recent months, from a few model 72 owners, wanting information on the top frames and bows. If you search back a few pages, it might be worth your while sending a few private messages to these guys asking for some pictures or advice. You may be able to help each other out with information.

Viv

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Gunsmoke,

Where did you get the vent for your M/C ?

I saw an old one on evilbay listed @ 45 bucks, but decided that was a bit too much.

Now I'm back looking for one.

 

Mike in Colorado

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