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I don't see how numbers from the CDC suggest that I am being hornswaggled or that I'm dim-witted or that I'm seeing things 180 degrees from the way they are. My only point was that some states, including Florida, are showing highly irregular and statistically impossible aberrations in their pneumonia numbers, and coincidentally it happened just when they needed to prove things were getting better in the coronavirus department.

 

If this is a tribal thing where you need to believe your guys are always right and the other guys are always wrong, well, I can't help you there and logical, reasonable discussion will be impossible. Numbers are numbers but if you can demonstrate how they are false, I'm willing to listen with an open mind.

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Benefits of AACA Membership.

My guy's are the ones with the closed restaurant and bowling alley that can't make their mortgage payments.

 

The original reason for shutting down the economy was to flatten the hospital curve.   It was either flattened or it didn't need to be flattened,  but either way we should have gone back to work along time ago.

 

The goal posts keep getting moved by a segment of the population that doesn't need to open their restaurant, hair salon, etc, to pay the bills.    

 

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So you're saying that yes, the numbers appear to be cooked, but as long as they're doing it for a reason you agree with, it's OK?

 

For the record, I'm more than unhappy about the economics of the situation. I continue to worry just like everyone else, because my business could take a dump at any  moment--I legitimately thought I was going under in March. I took out a large bank loan and a huge second mortgage on my house so I could continue to pay my employees. I applied for one of those payroll loans, but sadly our bank decided to file the applications for the big companies first, and guys like me, well, ours got filed sometime later. So right now we're surviving on about 45% of our usual sales volume and a pair of giant loans that has almost doubled my monthly overhead. I can't run like this for long.

 

But I am also proud of the fact that I have not yet had to lay anyone off, because I care about my guys and if I lose them, I won't have them when I need them most should things improve in the future. 

 

For now, I consider myself surviving only because of luck and good credit, not smarts or because of anything I'm doing. I feel the anxiety that everyone else feels because I'm not wealthy enough to weather this storm if it destroys my house, literally and figuratively. I don't have wealthy parents or a big trust fund or a steady paycheck to keep me afloat. I've burned it all to the ground and am simply hoping something grows there later.

 

Nevertheless, I think asking people to die so I can make money is not what I want on my gravestone. I would let my business collapse before I would agree that it was OK for someone to die for a chance to save it. Not sure how someone can consider me a fool for believing that people matter more than the economy.

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Matt,

 

I now feel this is a good time to be retired.  My son has a good banker and started processing a loan before the quarantine got settled in,  So, he was able to get the loan in the first phase.   Small construction business, but similar to your business as far as need is concerned.  Thanks for your efforts to continue and hope the restoration and sales of classics pick up soon.  I know several in similar situations.

 

John

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2 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

I don't see how numbers from the CDC suggest that I am being hornswaggled or that I'm dim-witted or that I'm seeing things 180 degrees from the way they are. My only point was that some states, including Florida, are showing highly irregular and statistically impossible aberrations in their pneumonia numbers, and coincidentally it happened just when they needed to prove things were getting better in the coronavirus department.

 

If this is a tribal thing where you need to believe your guys are always right and the other guys are always wrong, well, I can't help you there and logical, reasonable discussion will be impossible. Numbers are numbers but if you can demonstrate how they are false, I'm willing to listen with an open mind.

 

What I am saying is the numbers the CDC reports are numbers reported by entities that may or may not have a vested interest in "spinning" those numbers one way or another. Neither you nor I have a clue as to who is "correct" at any point in time in a constantly changing scenario or whose ox is being gored by whom.

Therefore I have refrained from believing or disbelieving either your guys or my guys.

I don't have "guys".

I also realize that the moment by moment situation in any given area is likely far different  from any other area and near impossible to quantify with any degree of accuracy.

I choose to read  the macro data with the understanding it's only a indicator of the situation, albeit a likely flawed indicator and adjust my routine to my local conditions gleaned from local indicators.

I also find it's best not to infer that what may be best for me is best for everyone.

Your results may vary...............Bob

 

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

So you're saying that yes, the numbers appear to be cooked, but as long as they're doing it for a reason you agree with, it's OK?

 

For the record, I'm more than unhappy about the economics of the situation. I continue to worry just like everyone else, because my business could take a dump at any  moment--I legitimately thought I was going under in March. I took out a large bank loan and a huge second mortgage on my house so I could continue to pay my employees. I applied for one of those payroll loans, but sadly our bank decided to file the applications for the big companies first, and guys like me, well, ours got filed sometime later. So right now we're surviving on about 45% of our usual sales volume and a pair of giant loans that has almost doubled my monthly overhead. I can't run like this for long.

 

But I am also proud of the fact that I have not yet had to lay anyone off, because I care about my guys and if I lose them, I won't have them when I need them most should things improve in the future. 

 

For now, I consider myself surviving only because of luck and good credit, not smarts or because of anything I'm doing. I feel the anxiety that everyone else feels because I'm not wealthy enough to weather this storm if it destroys my house, literally and figuratively. I don't have wealthy parents or a big trust fund or a steady paycheck to keep me afloat. I've burned it all to the ground and am simply hoping something grows there later.

 

Nevertheless, I think asking people to die so I can make money is not what I want on my gravestone. I would let my business collapse before I would agree that it was OK for someone to die for a chance to save it. Not sure how someone can consider me a fool for believing that people matter more than the economy.

 

Stuff is getting deep.  Who is asking people to die by opening a business responsibly?      More lives will be ruined/affected negatively  by this shutdown than the virus will ever do.    

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With all the looting and destruction plus mass mobs roaming around, even the line of guys waiting to get into a town house to loot it, any social distancing that they have been preaching and all of us law abiding citizens have been adhering to whether we thought it right or wrong just got thrown out the window.  In a couple of weeks we'll learn if it was all hype or not. Then again they are saying many are outside agitators so add travel to that and according to the pros we should be back at the beginning.  

Funny how the armed group that showed up to protest their right to work had no problem and their greatest offense was blocking a street,  but the other protestors we are seeing now have done just about every crime in the book.  it's about time we stopped letting the criminals at all levels run the show.  

One mayor even told the rioters to practice social distancing when they are looting.  I'm not kidding. 

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OK, once again, I get many PM's about threads going off topic, even from one or two of you who went off topic!  I asked you guys to please not turn all of this into a political or social debate.  This is strictly about the fall meet and in the end, the number one reason it had to be canceled was a lack of assurance that the state would allow us to host the event, even with special guidelines.  I do not want to lock this down!

 

I am frustrated, you are frustrated..too many problems in this world now.  I have family and friends that have and are suffering from the current rioters.  We have an AACA member who's buildings have been looted twice now.  My step daughter is living in fear as two people were killed near her last night and she is locked in her house scared stiff as the riots have been within a mile of her.  I have a lot to say but this forum is not the place.  

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I’m guilty of taking threads off topic, but try to never have politics involved in my posts. That said, anyone who communicates to Steve because a post is off topic needs to get a life. I have posted in the open, and sent members private messages to shut off the political comments. This is the one place I go that has almost zero content that comments to the left or right. I hope it stays that way. As a 20 year active poster here, and one who attempts to help others with their car problems, I ask two favors of everyone............no political comments........and leave Steve alone about such ridiculous things as posts going off topic. If you want to bother Steve.........do it to make a donation to the new headquarters or library. Thank you. Ed.

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We are a like minded group who, even while disagreeing, are by and large respectful of each other. That's as it should be. We all are frustrated and angry with the Covid flu and what it has done to us, our lively hoods, our health, and our hobby. At the heart of the problem, for better or worse, is our "leaders" so any discussion of same is sure to have  political overtones.

Respectful exchange of thoughts, among a like minded group, gives vent to that frustration. That's a good thing.

So, while some may argue that this is not the place to discuss tangential topics that affect us all I respectfully disagree.

As always, your opinions and results may vary...............Bob

 

 

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I think we really owe a debt of gratitude to Hershey Region and Steve Moskowitz for proceeding forward with the intent to save the car show this year. Planning for an event like this is a gargantuan task under the best of circumstances. Doing it without any guarantee that it will be held takes a high level of dedication which we all can appreciate.

Please let us know if a letter writing campaign to the powers that be in Pennsylvania would help. I'm sure that we would fill the right person's mail slot with respectful letters pointing out the advantages of having the car show while managing the risks appropriately.

Lew Bachman

1957 T-Bird

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It's just a bummer for everyone involved.  I go to Hershey for the swapping and leave before the car show.  It's kinda like the deer hunting my father did with his buddies.   All BS but a lot of fun.  

 

We social distance all day in the orange field and you can throw a bowling ball down the isle and not hit a soul most of the day.  It's just a parking spot as the guys park in their spaces and start walking. 

 

How is it acceptable to do a car show and not the swap meet? 

 

Some in our group are getting older and giving them a year off and they might not return for numerous reasons.  If not for them I probably won't make the annual trip because I can usually internet buy every part as soon as I get home instead of the walking the 26 miles to not find what I'm looking for.   

 

 

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40 minutes ago, Janousek said:

It's just a bummer for everyone involved.  I go to Hershey for the swapping and leave before the car show.  It's kinda like the deer hunting my father did with his buddies.   All BS but a lot of fun.  

 

We social distance all day in the orange field and you can throw a bowling ball down the isle and not hit a soul most of the day.  It's just a parking spot as the guys park in their spaces and start walking. 

 

How is it acceptable to do a car show and not the swap meet? 

 

Some in our group are getting older and giving them a year off and they might not return for numerous reasons.  If not for them I probably won't make the annual trip because I can usually internet buy every part as soon as I get home instead of the walking the 26 miles to not find what I'm looking for.   

 

 

Your experience is not the same as everyone.  We had a great crowd last year, up from the year before based upon parking results.  Tons of people make purchases and enjoy the camaraderie of the fall meet and attending the various meetings etc.  The Saturday show is wall to wall people and promotes our hobby well.

 

The attempt at putting on a car show is based upon the ease of doing it.  No contracts of consequence, no massive expenditures of money and the ability to fence in the entire show and control the crowd per any  government order.  There are many other events that most likely will have large crowds by then, at least in some states. NASCAR is starting to talk about people in the stands for one.  AACA and the Region desperately want to give our members who find it acceptable, an outlet to show their cars and enjoy what has always been a special day.

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5 minutes ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

Your experience is not the same as everyone.  We had a great crowd last year, up from the year before based upon parking results.  Tons of people make purchases and enjoy the camaraderie of the fall meet and attending the various meetings etc.  The Saturday show is wall to wall people and promotes our hobby well.

 

The attempt at putting on a car show is based upon the ease of doing it.  No contracts of consequence, no massive expenditures of money and the ability to fence in the entire show and control the crowd per any  government order.  There are many other events that most likely will have large crowds by then, at least in some states. NASCAR is starting to talk about people in the stands for one.  AACA and the Region desperately want to give our members who find it acceptable, an outlet to show their cars and enjoy what has always been a special day.

 

Actually,  last year seemed busier than the last few.    I completely agree with you on the camaraderie of the event.  There are guys I only see once a year and it is at Hershey.   I rank my car events as follows:

 

1.  Hershey

2.  PB

3.  Scottsdale

4.  Amelia

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14 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

We are a like minded group who, even while disagreeing, are by and large respectful of each other. That's as it should be. We all are frustrated and angry with the Covid flu and what it has done to us, our lively hoods, our health, and our hobby. At the heart of the problem, for better or worse, is our "leaders" so any discussion of same is sure to have  political overtones.

Respectful exchange of thoughts, among a like minded group, gives vent to that frustration. That's a good thing.

So, while some may argue that this is not the place to discuss tangential topics that affect us all I respectfully disagree.

As always, your opinions and results may vary...............Bob

 

 

Quite frankly I am beginning to be the "get off my lawn guy" in regards to this discussion.  This is the AACA forum, paid for by the club and its members.  The rules are set and we reinforced them recently.  When you agreed to join the forum you agreed to play by our rules, like it or not.  I do not enjoy playing policeman but while you may disagree Bob I ask you once again to read the forum rules.  That is the end of the story.  The AACA Board of Directors approved the rules unanimously. 

 

This world is a mess and I am very troubled by all that is going on.  I hope to find the time today to write my first Letter to the Editor of our local paper ever, over my disgust about what is happening to this great country.  The AACA forum which is about antique cars is not the place.  

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I blame myself. Apparently many of you do, too. Sorry for caring. Won't happen again.

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Consider me also chastised. Sorry to be such a thorn in anyone's side..............Bob

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46 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

Consider me also chastised. Sorry to be such a thorn in anyone's side..............Bob

 

Bob,  I will forgive you since we are mostly on the same side of the argument.    Matt - I'll forgive you later if you give me a ride in the Hurst 442.

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With The flea market canceled this year, maybe AACA National and the Hershey region can address some of the common complaints:

1. Maybe try to organize vendors by similar interests. eg. all the Packard guys together.

2. Consolitading the flea market so it is not so spread out with so many almost empty rows. 

3.If this was done, a lot of the space on the Giant Center side could be used for parking especially on Saturday.

 

 


 


 

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1 hour ago, alsancle said:

 

Bob,  I will forgive you since we are mostly on the same side of the argument.    Matt - I'll forgive you later if you give me a ride in the Hurst 442.

 

 

If Matt offered me a ride in a post war car I would stop talking to him.........just saying. I haven't driven the V-16 Marmon he has in 34 years........so I would take that offer up.

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1 hour ago, alsancle said:

Bob,  I will forgive you since we are mostly on the same side of the argument.

Thanks. I'll just go back to helping others in the hobby as best I can. ..............Bob

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Steve R makes some good suggestions, but if thats a bit ambious I wonder if the region might consider a designated field for those who plan to stay through Saturday.  Seems it would benefit vendors and spectators who come for the show.  Not sure they would fill a whole field, and I would strongly suggest it be voluntary, but that might be something they could do to freshen things up.  

 

I do know two people who in recent years not only were able to get spaces, but in their preferred field.  One guy likes far end of the red field due to a good concentration of gas and oil guys he knows.  Forgot reasoning behind other choice.  

 

Personally happy the show is back on grass vs. Giant Center a while back.  

 

No matter what the region does or doesn't do I am counting down to 2021...

20181013_114526.jpg

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2 hours ago, edinmass said:

 

 

If Matt offered me a ride in a post war car I would stop talking to him.........just saying. I haven't driven the V-16 Marmon he has in 34 years........so I would take that offer up.

 

Consider yourselves invited and the keys are in the ignition, although the Hurst/Olds has been sold (I will be vying to get it back, however--it was purchased by "Dream Car Giveaway" and will be available for raffle).

 

Friends are always welcome in my shop.

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AACA Grand Nationals & Hershey Car Show Update

 

The Board of Directors of the Antique Automobile Club of America (AACA) has faced many new challenges this year and has been forced to make difficult decisions because of COVID-19. Our primary focus has been service to our members, along with a deep concern for the welfare of our membership. As we begin to rebuild our activities calendar, we are pleased and excited to make the following announcements:

We have rescheduled the Annual Grand Nationals at The NB Center for American Automotive Heritage in Allentown, Pennsylvania, to August 21 and 22, 2020. This will include our annual Zenith competition. The 22nd will be the date of the show itself. We will send out an email to all those who register for the event with further instructions and information. Naturally, there will be quite a few changes. A couple of very important items to note is that the grounds at The NB Center will be available to current AACA members only and that everyone will have to sign a waiver of liability to The NB Center. There also will be no closing banquet, but we are working on a potential replacement on the field. Any AACA member who would like to register for the Grand Nationals, please do so online at members.aaca.org. The limit on cars has been reduced to 600. You may also call AACA Headquarters at 717-534-1910 to request registration materials be mailed to you. If you have already registered, there is no need to re-register. Anyone who cannot make the new date can request a refund by emailing our registration chairman Pat Buckley at pbuckley@aaca.org. If the State of Pennsylvania does not approve our event by July 22, we will be forced to cancel it completely and as such refund in full all registrations.

Again, please understand preparation for this event is fluid, but we will communicate all details to registrants in plenty of time prior to the show.  Also we have called all the hotels on our original list to let them know about the date change but please call your hotel and confirm new dates.  There will be no Thursday activities. 

Additionally, we have previously announced that the Eastern Fall Nationals in Hershey, Pennsylvania, is planned as a car show only event on October 10, 2020. The Hershey Region AACA, AACA and Hershey Entertainment & Resorts are solidly behind this effort. We are all taking steps to ensure the show is done in a safe manner. This event is also fluid, but a plan is coming together and we believe you will be happy to have the opportunity once again to experience Hershey in the fall. Chocolate World is now open! As stated above, we can plan, work, spend and do everything necessary to host you, but Hershey will also require approval by the State of Pennsylvania to be held this year. We are cautiously optimistic this can be done.

Starting in July, any AACA member who would like to register for the Hershey car show may do so online at members.aaca.org or call headquarters to request registration materials be mailed to them. If you have already requested registration materials be sent to you, there is no need to request them again. If a refund is necessary, it will be done in the same manner as the Grand Nationals.

We look forward to hosting these events and welcome your participation and support of the AACA and the antique automobile hobby. In the meantime, stay safe, stay involved in the hobby in any way you can and hopefully soon we can enjoy being together celebrating the history of the “automobile.”

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Posted (edited)
On 6/1/2020 at 5:38 PM, Steve Moskowitz said:

Yes, the single largest impediment is what our state government will allow.  It is the one question we need answered for the Grand National and Hershey.  You know what we know as of this date but we are TRYING our best to find a way to let our members and the public enjoy our great hobby.

 

 

Call it a protest, or a funeral and the Governer will allow it..

Edited by topblissgt (see edit history)

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