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I got the notice about the survey -- but NEVER got the Survey...

I have 9 spots --- chock full of NEW & N.O.S. parts for cars from the 1930s through the 1970s.

   I depend on my Hershey sales -- that go *** Worldwide *** to carry me financially through the winter.

   Our lives have been affected enough during the 77 days of this coronavirus pandemic... 

   I have spoken to 25 fellow vendors since 6:06 P.M. -- and we are all in the same boat... It would be a major problem in our lives.

 

   If there is anyway to reconsider... Please do so... It is still five months away....

    Why don't we see how Spring Carlisle (two weeks away) &

   Englishtown, New Jersey (three weeks away).    Both twice postponed

       Function....

    I will be happy to report back.......   Yours, Craig....

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One other thing to consider ----

   Hershey stand to lose a BILLION dollars by us not being there????

 

   I know I buy about $ 60 of chocolate there Friday night --- I KNOW I am

Not Alone.......

 

    Do they get a say ???????

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Notice that they say no carnivals, no fairs, no concerts, no this, no that where thousands of people are all right on top of each other........

 

At Carlisle , even if 50,000 people come through the gates -- it is spread over 4 days and 12 hours a day -- and spread over 95 acres....

Other than the food court, which I am Positive they will have well regulated and socially distanced,

There are no big gatherings at any time throughout the grounds...

       ENOUGH Already --- LET US LIVE -- We will practice safety...... We are not young stupid kids at the beach.......

 

     And HERSHEY is even more socially distanced than Carlisle --- It is

Spread over many many miles......

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On 5/27/2020 at 5:17 PM, 3macboys said:

Just to add to Matt's point, everything that we really know about this virus has been learned in the last 10-12 weeks.  The supposed information from prior to that period I would charitably call unreliable from the source.  There's a lot of subject area experts here and I'm pretty sure that it took a lot longer than 10-12 weeks or even years to gain the knowledge that you have.  Like the vast majority I'm hopeful that this will be short term pain and that this will soon pass us by, however, in the meantime I'm content to follow the rules from the London tube and Mind the Gap.  

 

image.jpeg.3ffed57e79df477af392484aedc3316a.jpeg

 

And just like the experts we hear from in the mass media, lot of the "area experts" here and the knowledge espoused is actually well meaning opinion, hearsay, wives tales, etc etc, masquerading as fact and may or may not be right, wrong, or indifferent.....Bob

 

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Wow, guys...just because other events are still advertised as they are going to happen does not mean they will.  The Governor and State Police will have a say.  You folks that do not live in PA do not realize that our Governor is wielding his power in an absolute manner and has threatened our counties and businesses with a loss of licenses and prosecution if they disobey the directives.  Local race track that opened last Monday has already been warned that the police will enforce the rules and stop them if they try to run this week. Google Gov Wolf updates and you will realize what YOU think is simple is not.

 

We will not lose billions over the flea market and corral closing but it will hurt many, many people.  Does Hershey have a say?  NO, HE&R and the Hershey Region do not tell our Governor what to do.  In fact to my knowledge the only thing anyone has received from his office is a form letter.  

 

It is frustrating to read posts where people think this decision was made lightly, that it was not done in consultation with many stakeholders and that it was the region took the easy way out!!  THEY DID NOT!  Their work for the entire year has mostly gone up in smoke, they will lose money and they will lose the opportunity to put on an event that they are immensely dedicated to for everyone else.  THEY give up the enjoyment of the event and WORK it for you.  Trust me, Hershey was my favorite event of the year and I walked the flea market day after day in years past, but now for 19 years the staff and I have worked long days for the national club, I understand the sacrifice the region folks do as our office does as well.

 

No one is asking you to like or be happy about the decision.  None of us are as well.  Your losses are compounded by us!!  Please ease up...nothing else could have been done.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Gentlemen, let's not give Steve an ulcer. Just let it go...........you can't change what you can't change. Steve.......I'm buying drinks when I'm in town next time.......and lunch at the Hershey Hotel. Thanks for all you do........24/7/365. 👍

Edited by edinmass (see edit history)
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1 hour ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

Does Hershey have a say?  NO, HE&R and the Hershey Region do not tell our Governor what to do.

 

Even though people may be disappointed, I'm sure that

not a single person is blaming AACA, its staff, or its Hershey Region.

They are victims too.  Any comments seen are just frustration

over the whole year's occurrence that people may be expressing.

 

A simple reminder for everyone:  The government works for US.

We don't work for them.  Is this foundational principle a mere theory

or unapproachable ideal?

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I am as unhappy as any of you about losing Hershey--I do a lot of business there, too. I had the same knee-jerk reaction last night and wanted to be angry at someone. Nevertheless, let's keep things in perspective, eh? 105,000 dead Americans, with 2500 more every week (that's one 9/11 every single week for the past three months). Ten times that many people will be permanently affected by just this one illness, never mind all the others that continue to collect victims out of the spotlight. Families hurt, jobs lost, and all kinds of other worse things are happening in the world.

 

Cancelled car shows and having to wear a mask are not even remotely close to the end of the world, it's not the beginning of tyranny, and you can ask elderly Japanese Americans about what an overreaching American government really looks like. If how we're dealing with this situation really upsets you enough to boil your blood, then you should check yourself and really think carefully about just how easy, safe, comfortable, and enjoyable your life really is. We are the lucky ones. Never forget that.

 

I am healthy, my family is healthy, we have a home, I have a job, and we can still find ways to enjoy ourselves, all things considered. My kids aren't going to sleep scared that they will starve. I suspect all of you are pretty much in the same boat with me. If you have toy cars and the resources to be on the internet discussing them, then your life is already better than 90% of all the people on the entire planet.

 

Please, let's keep all that in mind before grabbing the torches and pitchforks. Count your blessings, as the phrase goes.

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19 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

I am as unhappy as any of you about losing Hershey--I do a lot of business there, too. I had the same knee-jerk reaction last night and wanted to be angry at someone. Nevertheless, let's keep things in perspective, eh? 105,000 dead Americans, with 2500 more every week (that's one 9/11 every single week for the past three months). Ten times that many people will be permanently affected by just this one illness, never mind all the others that continue to collect victims out of the spotlight. Families hurt, jobs lost, and all kinds of other worse things are happening in the world.

 

Cancelled car shows and having to wear a mask are not even remotely close to the end of the world, it's not the beginning of tyranny, and you can ask elderly Japanese Americans about what an overreaching American government really looks like. If how we're dealing with this situation really upsets you enough to boil your blood, then you should check yourself and really think carefully about just how easy, safe, comfortable, and enjoyable your life really is. We are the lucky ones. Never forget that.

 

I am healthy, my family is healthy, we have a home, I have a job, and we can still find ways to enjoy ourselves, all things considered. My kids aren't going to sleep scared that they will starve. I suspect all of you are pretty much in the same boat with me. If you have toy cars and the resources to be on the internet discussing them, then your life is already better than 90% of all the people on the entire planet.

 

Please, let's keep all that in mind before grabbing the torches and pitchforks. Count your blessings, as the phrase goes.

Well said, Matt.  
 

As to the Japanese, my brother was in the Navy, in 1965 was in Japan.  The Japanese taxi cabs would not stop nor give a ride to an American serviceman....

 

We’ll get through this, I think that someone mentioned a virtual Hershey on the Forum....spread out your goodies, take a picture, sell!

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As I posted early one-somewhere here on the forums, I fully intend to put up an awning in the back yard, set up some tables, put some stuff out and sit back with a single malt Scotch and take photos.  It'll be a virtual Hershey.  I've already got a few friends who want to join in ( 6 feet apart, or whatever is necessary at the time).

For those who wonder why the decision couldn't wait until the "last minute" if you think logically about the lead-time needed to plan and run this event, it needs to run like clockwork along a very strict time-line.  Contracts need to be signed, support services engaged, even printing the program and ordering all the merchandise cannot be done at the last minute.  The Hershey Region and AACA have given us this amazing show for a long time, and there is no time like the present to let them know how much we appreciate their hard work and fully respect their decision. 

See you on-lne in October - and don't forget to bring old spark plugs next year!!!

Terry

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 Set up tables and an awning in the yard, put out some parts for sale, post photos and sit back with an adult beverage and have a virtual Hershey? Hmmmm.........count me in!! 😁 Terry you start the thread and those of us who want to post pics of stuff for sale will jump in. It's not Hershey but hey, it could be fun!

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Matt Harwood said:

...it's not the beginning of tyranny...

 

No, but it's the latest chapter.

That's not a political statement, because people on both sides

of any issue do not like tyranny;  and right and wrong have been

on both sides.  This certainly affects our car activities, as we

clearly see.  There's much more to be corrected than at first may

meet the eye, and no one should be cowed, quailed, or oblivious.

Edited by John_S_in_Penna (see edit history)
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Steve, 

What do you see as the biggest issue standing in the way of having the car show on Saturday of Hershey week this year? If it is the unwillingness of the governor of Pennsylvania to allow groups of more that 250 (?) people to meet for an event than it would be good to know that. I would think that with the extra space to spread the show out over several fields that maintaining physical distancing could be easily accomplished. 

Anyway, please let us know what your thoughts on this are.

Best regards,

Lew Bachman

1957 Thunderbird Colonial White

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While I agree with the decision to cancel it does bring back bad memories. I knew Dad was dying when he told me late in September '86 that he couldn't make Hershey that year. By the end of October he was gone.

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Yes, the single largest impediment is what our state government will allow.  It is the one question we need answered for the Grand National and Hershey.  You know what we know as of this date but we are TRYING our best to find a way to let our members and the public enjoy our great hobby.

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Posted (edited)

Too bad it wasn't scheduled for Florida and be happy it isn't in Massachusetts.     As I drove around today I pondered why the Bowling Alley,  Ice rink,  salons, restaurants, retail stores were closed,  but the alcohol stores, pot shops,  mini marts and Home Depot were packed and doing booming business.    

Edited by alsancle (see edit history)
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Here in Florida, I am told the strip joints have the girls wearing only masks.............while it’s been twenty years since I have entered one, last time I was there a few of the girls could have used them back then also.

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23 minutes ago, alsancle said:

Too bad it wasn't schedule for Florida and be happy it isn't in Massachusetts.     As I drove around today I pondered why the Bowling Alley,  Ice rink,  salons, restaurants, retail stores were closed,  but the alcohol stores, pot shops,  mini marts and Home Depot were packed and doing booming business.    

 

I suspect part of the reason it seems Florida is all smiles is that Florida appears to be cooking the books and under-reporting the number of Covid-19 deaths. They appear to be calling a majority of them pneumonia instead. Official statements claim the number of Covid-19 cases are "holding steady" but pneumonia deaths in Florida are up something like 450% for the same period compared to previous years. Check it out (all these numbers are from the CDC):


Pneumonia deaths in Florida February-May:

2015: 919

2016: 958

2017: 944

2018: 935

2020: 4259

 

Interestingly enough, Georgia and Texas are showing similar massive jumps in pneumonia deaths, despite their governors' claims that all is well.

 

Texas:

2015: 1067

2016: 1027

2017: 903

2018: 973

2020: 4217

 

Georgia:

2015: 504

2016: 499

2017: 487

2018: 474

2020: 1368

 

The really curious thing is that these states have not yet finished compiling and submitting pneumonia statistics for 2019, which is why they don't list numbers for 2019 (they are expected to be consistent with previous years). Surprisingly (or not), they have already released the 2020 numbers, which are up to date as of May 28.

 

Odd, that...

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Posted (edited)

To some extent every one is cooking the books as they seek to advance their own agenda and narrative. Remember: Figures don't lie but liars can figure. Believe every thing you read at your own peril...Bob

Edited by Bhigdog (see edit history)
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I don't see how numbers from the CDC suggest that I am being hornswaggled or that I'm dim-witted or that I'm seeing things 180 degrees from the way they are. My only point was that some states, including Florida, are showing highly irregular and statistically impossible aberrations in their pneumonia numbers, and coincidentally it happened just when they needed to prove things were getting better in the coronavirus department.

 

If this is a tribal thing where you need to believe your guys are always right and the other guys are always wrong, well, I can't help you there and logical, reasonable discussion will be impossible. Numbers are numbers but if you can demonstrate how they are false, I'm willing to listen with an open mind.

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My guy's are the ones with the closed restaurant and bowling alley that can't make their mortgage payments.

 

The original reason for shutting down the economy was to flatten the hospital curve.   It was either flattened or it didn't need to be flattened,  but either way we should have gone back to work along time ago.

 

The goal posts keep getting moved by a segment of the population that doesn't need to open their restaurant, hair salon, etc, to pay the bills.    

 

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So you're saying that yes, the numbers appear to be cooked, but as long as they're doing it for a reason you agree with, it's OK?

 

For the record, I'm more than unhappy about the economics of the situation. I continue to worry just like everyone else, because my business could take a dump at any  moment--I legitimately thought I was going under in March. I took out a large bank loan and a huge second mortgage on my house so I could continue to pay my employees. I applied for one of those payroll loans, but sadly our bank decided to file the applications for the big companies first, and guys like me, well, ours got filed sometime later. So right now we're surviving on about 45% of our usual sales volume and a pair of giant loans that has almost doubled my monthly overhead. I can't run like this for long.

 

But I am also proud of the fact that I have not yet had to lay anyone off, because I care about my guys and if I lose them, I won't have them when I need them most should things improve in the future. 

 

For now, I consider myself surviving only because of luck and good credit, not smarts or because of anything I'm doing. I feel the anxiety that everyone else feels because I'm not wealthy enough to weather this storm if it destroys my house, literally and figuratively. I don't have wealthy parents or a big trust fund or a steady paycheck to keep me afloat. I've burned it all to the ground and am simply hoping something grows there later.

 

Nevertheless, I think asking people to die so I can make money is not what I want on my gravestone. I would let my business collapse before I would agree that it was OK for someone to die for a chance to save it. Not sure how someone can consider me a fool for believing that people matter more than the economy.

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Matt,

 

I now feel this is a good time to be retired.  My son has a good banker and started processing a loan before the quarantine got settled in,  So, he was able to get the loan in the first phase.   Small construction business, but similar to your business as far as need is concerned.  Thanks for your efforts to continue and hope the restoration and sales of classics pick up soon.  I know several in similar situations.

 

John

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2 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

I don't see how numbers from the CDC suggest that I am being hornswaggled or that I'm dim-witted or that I'm seeing things 180 degrees from the way they are. My only point was that some states, including Florida, are showing highly irregular and statistically impossible aberrations in their pneumonia numbers, and coincidentally it happened just when they needed to prove things were getting better in the coronavirus department.

 

If this is a tribal thing where you need to believe your guys are always right and the other guys are always wrong, well, I can't help you there and logical, reasonable discussion will be impossible. Numbers are numbers but if you can demonstrate how they are false, I'm willing to listen with an open mind.

 

What I am saying is the numbers the CDC reports are numbers reported by entities that may or may not have a vested interest in "spinning" those numbers one way or another. Neither you nor I have a clue as to who is "correct" at any point in time in a constantly changing scenario or whose ox is being gored by whom.

Therefore I have refrained from believing or disbelieving either your guys or my guys.

I don't have "guys".

I also realize that the moment by moment situation in any given area is likely far different  from any other area and near impossible to quantify with any degree of accuracy.

I choose to read  the macro data with the understanding it's only a indicator of the situation, albeit a likely flawed indicator and adjust my routine to my local conditions gleaned from local indicators.

I also find it's best not to infer that what may be best for me is best for everyone.

Your results may vary...............Bob

 

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, Matt Harwood said:

So you're saying that yes, the numbers appear to be cooked, but as long as they're doing it for a reason you agree with, it's OK?

 

For the record, I'm more than unhappy about the economics of the situation. I continue to worry just like everyone else, because my business could take a dump at any  moment--I legitimately thought I was going under in March. I took out a large bank loan and a huge second mortgage on my house so I could continue to pay my employees. I applied for one of those payroll loans, but sadly our bank decided to file the applications for the big companies first, and guys like me, well, ours got filed sometime later. So right now we're surviving on about 45% of our usual sales volume and a pair of giant loans that has almost doubled my monthly overhead. I can't run like this for long.

 

But I am also proud of the fact that I have not yet had to lay anyone off, because I care about my guys and if I lose them, I won't have them when I need them most should things improve in the future. 

 

For now, I consider myself surviving only because of luck and good credit, not smarts or because of anything I'm doing. I feel the anxiety that everyone else feels because I'm not wealthy enough to weather this storm if it destroys my house, literally and figuratively. I don't have wealthy parents or a big trust fund or a steady paycheck to keep me afloat. I've burned it all to the ground and am simply hoping something grows there later.

 

Nevertheless, I think asking people to die so I can make money is not what I want on my gravestone. I would let my business collapse before I would agree that it was OK for someone to die for a chance to save it. Not sure how someone can consider me a fool for believing that people matter more than the economy.

 

Stuff is getting deep.  Who is asking people to die by opening a business responsibly?      More lives will be ruined/affected negatively  by this shutdown than the virus will ever do.    

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With all the looting and destruction plus mass mobs roaming around, even the line of guys waiting to get into a town house to loot it, any social distancing that they have been preaching and all of us law abiding citizens have been adhering to whether we thought it right or wrong just got thrown out the window.  In a couple of weeks we'll learn if it was all hype or not. Then again they are saying many are outside agitators so add travel to that and according to the pros we should be back at the beginning.  

Funny how the armed group that showed up to protest their right to work had no problem and their greatest offense was blocking a street,  but the other protestors we are seeing now have done just about every crime in the book.  it's about time we stopped letting the criminals at all levels run the show.  

One mayor even told the rioters to practice social distancing when they are looting.  I'm not kidding. 

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OK, once again, I get many PM's about threads going off topic, even from one or two of you who went off topic!  I asked you guys to please not turn all of this into a political or social debate.  This is strictly about the fall meet and in the end, the number one reason it had to be canceled was a lack of assurance that the state would allow us to host the event, even with special guidelines.  I do not want to lock this down!

 

I am frustrated, you are frustrated..too many problems in this world now.  I have family and friends that have and are suffering from the current rioters.  We have an AACA member who's buildings have been looted twice now.  My step daughter is living in fear as two people were killed near her last night and she is locked in her house scared stiff as the riots have been within a mile of her.  I have a lot to say but this forum is not the place.  

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I’m guilty of taking threads off topic, but try to never have politics involved in my posts. That said, anyone who communicates to Steve because a post is off topic needs to get a life. I have posted in the open, and sent members private messages to shut off the political comments. This is the one place I go that has almost zero content that comments to the left or right. I hope it stays that way. As a 20 year active poster here, and one who attempts to help others with their car problems, I ask two favors of everyone............no political comments........and leave Steve alone about such ridiculous things as posts going off topic. If you want to bother Steve.........do it to make a donation to the new headquarters or library. Thank you. Ed.

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We are a like minded group who, even while disagreeing, are by and large respectful of each other. That's as it should be. We all are frustrated and angry with the Covid flu and what it has done to us, our lively hoods, our health, and our hobby. At the heart of the problem, for better or worse, is our "leaders" so any discussion of same is sure to have  political overtones.

Respectful exchange of thoughts, among a like minded group, gives vent to that frustration. That's a good thing.

So, while some may argue that this is not the place to discuss tangential topics that affect us all I respectfully disagree.

As always, your opinions and results may vary...............Bob

 

 

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I think we really owe a debt of gratitude to Hershey Region and Steve Moskowitz for proceeding forward with the intent to save the car show this year. Planning for an event like this is a gargantuan task under the best of circumstances. Doing it without any guarantee that it will be held takes a high level of dedication which we all can appreciate.

Please let us know if a letter writing campaign to the powers that be in Pennsylvania would help. I'm sure that we would fill the right person's mail slot with respectful letters pointing out the advantages of having the car show while managing the risks appropriately.

Lew Bachman

1957 T-Bird

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It's just a bummer for everyone involved.  I go to Hershey for the swapping and leave before the car show.  It's kinda like the deer hunting my father did with his buddies.   All BS but a lot of fun.  

 

We social distance all day in the orange field and you can throw a bowling ball down the isle and not hit a soul most of the day.  It's just a parking spot as the guys park in their spaces and start walking. 

 

How is it acceptable to do a car show and not the swap meet? 

 

Some in our group are getting older and giving them a year off and they might not return for numerous reasons.  If not for them I probably won't make the annual trip because I can usually internet buy every part as soon as I get home instead of the walking the 26 miles to not find what I'm looking for.   

 

 

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40 minutes ago, Janousek said:

It's just a bummer for everyone involved.  I go to Hershey for the swapping and leave before the car show.  It's kinda like the deer hunting my father did with his buddies.   All BS but a lot of fun.  

 

We social distance all day in the orange field and you can throw a bowling ball down the isle and not hit a soul most of the day.  It's just a parking spot as the guys park in their spaces and start walking. 

 

How is it acceptable to do a car show and not the swap meet? 

 

Some in our group are getting older and giving them a year off and they might not return for numerous reasons.  If not for them I probably won't make the annual trip because I can usually internet buy every part as soon as I get home instead of the walking the 26 miles to not find what I'm looking for.   

 

 

Your experience is not the same as everyone.  We had a great crowd last year, up from the year before based upon parking results.  Tons of people make purchases and enjoy the camaraderie of the fall meet and attending the various meetings etc.  The Saturday show is wall to wall people and promotes our hobby well.

 

The attempt at putting on a car show is based upon the ease of doing it.  No contracts of consequence, no massive expenditures of money and the ability to fence in the entire show and control the crowd per any  government order.  There are many other events that most likely will have large crowds by then, at least in some states. NASCAR is starting to talk about people in the stands for one.  AACA and the Region desperately want to give our members who find it acceptable, an outlet to show their cars and enjoy what has always been a special day.

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5 minutes ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

Your experience is not the same as everyone.  We had a great crowd last year, up from the year before based upon parking results.  Tons of people make purchases and enjoy the camaraderie of the fall meet and attending the various meetings etc.  The Saturday show is wall to wall people and promotes our hobby well.

 

The attempt at putting on a car show is based upon the ease of doing it.  No contracts of consequence, no massive expenditures of money and the ability to fence in the entire show and control the crowd per any  government order.  There are many other events that most likely will have large crowds by then, at least in some states. NASCAR is starting to talk about people in the stands for one.  AACA and the Region desperately want to give our members who find it acceptable, an outlet to show their cars and enjoy what has always been a special day.

 

Actually,  last year seemed busier than the last few.    I completely agree with you on the camaraderie of the event.  There are guys I only see once a year and it is at Hershey.   I rank my car events as follows:

 

1.  Hershey

2.  PB

3.  Scottsdale

4.  Amelia

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14 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

We are a like minded group who, even while disagreeing, are by and large respectful of each other. That's as it should be. We all are frustrated and angry with the Covid flu and what it has done to us, our lively hoods, our health, and our hobby. At the heart of the problem, for better or worse, is our "leaders" so any discussion of same is sure to have  political overtones.

Respectful exchange of thoughts, among a like minded group, gives vent to that frustration. That's a good thing.

So, while some may argue that this is not the place to discuss tangential topics that affect us all I respectfully disagree.

As always, your opinions and results may vary...............Bob

 

 

Quite frankly I am beginning to be the "get off my lawn guy" in regards to this discussion.  This is the AACA forum, paid for by the club and its members.  The rules are set and we reinforced them recently.  When you agreed to join the forum you agreed to play by our rules, like it or not.  I do not enjoy playing policeman but while you may disagree Bob I ask you once again to read the forum rules.  That is the end of the story.  The AACA Board of Directors approved the rules unanimously. 

 

This world is a mess and I am very troubled by all that is going on.  I hope to find the time today to write my first Letter to the Editor of our local paper ever, over my disgust about what is happening to this great country.  The AACA forum which is about antique cars is not the place.  

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46 minutes ago, Bhigdog said:

Consider me also chastised. Sorry to be such a thorn in anyone's side..............Bob

 

Bob,  I will forgive you since we are mostly on the same side of the argument.    Matt - I'll forgive you later if you give me a ride in the Hurst 442.

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With The flea market canceled this year, maybe AACA National and the Hershey region can address some of the common complaints:

1. Maybe try to organize vendors by similar interests. eg. all the Packard guys together.

2. Consolitading the flea market so it is not so spread out with so many almost empty rows. 

3.If this was done, a lot of the space on the Giant Center side could be used for parking especially on Saturday.

 

 


 


 

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1 hour ago, alsancle said:

 

Bob,  I will forgive you since we are mostly on the same side of the argument.    Matt - I'll forgive you later if you give me a ride in the Hurst 442.

 

 

If Matt offered me a ride in a post war car I would stop talking to him.........just saying. I haven't driven the V-16 Marmon he has in 34 years........so I would take that offer up.

  • Haha 1
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