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2 hours ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

The Hershey Region sent out two surveys.  The first went to vendors who we had emails for, the club developed the list for the region.  If you got the email from us you should have gotten the survey.  The survey may have gone to spam ( I know several people including us who did not get it).  Also, if you have changed your email and not notified us you would not have received one. The second email went to Hershey Region members.  The Region has a very difficult decision to make given a host of concerns that are legitimately not any easy call for them.

 

Hopefully, in this daily changing environment where new rules, new science and new answers regarding the virus are the norm,  the region will be able to come to a conclusion that will keep "Hershey" in 2020.  If in fact, they feel they cannot or the state does not allow the event then that is something sadly we will have to live with and hope for a great 2021.  

 

If you did not get a survey please check your spam filter...looked this morning and viola there it was!!

Steve,

I received the first email notice on Saturday. As of Tuesday morning I still have not received the survey, and it is not in my spam folder.

I have been a vendor since 1990

Member #988793

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Since we did not send out the Survey Monkey piece, I cannot tell you why.  They had the same list from the email.  

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I think we should give it a little more time to settle down. Then have a Spring Hershey around May and the regular Fall Hershey. I’m just trying to be positive.

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Posted (edited)

Trouble is no one knows squat..........

"The virus is no worse than a cold. Go about your business. No wait, "millions will die".

Everyone must be locked down. No wait. "Not every one."

"Masks are bad and should not be worn. No wait, "every one MUST wear a mask."

Only N95 masks are good Cloth masks are counter productive and actually bad . No wait " here's plans to sew them at home. You must wear one at all times"

And the latest. "Masks are of little help, Every one needs to wear a clear face shield."

The virus can "live for days on any surface. "don't touch anything" .......Or not.

The hospitals will be over whelmed, "we must send positive test people to elder care facilities".........OOPS!

"You can go to beach but you can't swim"

"You can go to the beach and swim but you can't sit in the sand."

" You can mill about for hours in a grocery store but not for 5 minutes in a State liquor store"

" You can drive to the golf course in one car with 3 of your buddies but only one to a cart to play."

"Every one must stay home but we're opening fishing season early so every one can get out to fish"

And on and on ad nauseum .

I really and truly feel sorry for ANYONE that has to do the advance planning for anything as complicated as the Hershey meet when their decisions must be made based on info from the leaders who clearly don't know their hole from an ass in the ground.

I'm going fishing..................Bob

 

 

Edited by Bhigdog (see edit history)
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I'm with you Bhigdog.  I have been told all along by every celebrity and news station radio to TV to internet that we have to listen to the experts,  yet I'm almost positive every expert has made atleast a complete about face on something they earlier stated fact and guide line we should follow.  So far my opinions of professionals in many businesses is not very high, before this whole mess personally in many businesses I have dealt with including local level Govt.  Just look at my garage build thread. 

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13 minutes ago, auburnseeker said:

Just look at my garage build thread. 

 

Ah feel your pain..........Bob

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The more I think about this, the more clearly I respect the difficulty in planning to proceed, or a plan to cancel.  Double edge sword where no one will be happy.   The optimist that I am hopes that there is confidence that by October things will have calmed down to the new normal and we can proceed with our lives, Hershey included.

 

Good Luck.

 

DAF

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Frank Rose jr here , I to received an email on 5-23-20 of a survey to come and that I must reply by 8am on 5-27-20 and here it is 11pm on the 26th and still no survey - I’m thinking that the results of this survey from survey monkey are not going to be very accurate, I’ve been a vendor since 1985 and sure hope that fall Hershey 2020 is a go as long as Covid numbers are down and everyone has the comon sense to social distance 

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Frank Rose here again ; yes check your spam filter - your survey will be there , every one have a good night 

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I received and returned my 3 question survey last week.

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I have been a vendor at Hershey since the 1960s.  I received the email alert saying I would get the survey but I did not.  It is not in my junk file.  My email address has not changed.  I would like to have a voice by having an opportunity to respond.  I don't get a good feeling about how this is being handled.

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Where I am two hospitals shut down because the staff got sick.  In that situation if you get in a car accident, have an appendicitis, or whatever you get to lay there unattended.  I talked to an eye doctor who couldn't take care of someone who got a splinter in their eye chopping wood without safety glasses.  In a situation like that eventually the eyeball comes out or the limbs get infected and have to be sawed off in the garage battlefield style without morphine.  The police department got so overrun with the virus the city had to shut down because there weren't enough police.  Judging from the meat packing plants where the virus sweeps through like the wind the notion of simply letting everything run wild is not a good idea.  That said I am not going anywhere I don't have to.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, TimCole said:

Where I am two hospitals shut down because the staff got sick.  In that situation if you get in a car accident, have an appendicitis, or whatever you get to lay there unattended.  I talked to an eye doctor who couldn't take care of someone who got a splinter in their eye chopping wood without safety glasses.  In a situation like that eventually the eyeball comes out or the limbs get infected and have to be sawed off in the garage battlefield style without morphine.  The police department got so overrun with the virus the city had to shut down because there weren't enough police.  Judging from the meat packing plants where the virus sweeps through like the wind the notion of simply letting everything run wild is not a good idea.  That said I am not going anywhere I don't have to.

 

AMEN to that!

 

I just don't feel comfortable staying in a hotel. As I am writing this we are just a little shy of 100,000 people dying in 12 weeks from this virus 

 

Edited by John348 (see edit history)

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In New York state, just over 86% of reported COVID-19 deaths involved at least one comorbidity, according to the state’s department of health.

 

https://www.the-hospitalist.org/hospitalist/article/220457/coronavirus-updates/comorbidities-rule-new-yorks-covid-19-deaths

 

According to cancer.org in 2019, there was an estimated 1,762,450 new cancer cases diagnosed and 606,880 cancer deaths in the United States.   

 

I saw note the other day (which I can't seem to find) where oncology referrals were down 65 percent in Boston hospitals over the last 2 months.    So either cancer has gone away or people are afraid to go to the doctor.

 

 

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 Since this thing has started I have not worn a mask and don't intend to start. I had to wear one at my doctors office the other day and that was the only time I've worn one. Common sense must prevail. The masks are only good if you have it and don't want to spread it. Not good for keeping you from getting it so they say. Here in Florida, things are beginning to open up and the Virus is not running amuck since they've started to open. I filled out our questionnaire and said I'd plan to attend and with no reservations. Common people this thing will be gone by October. This is only the end of May, we have 4 months to shed this thing and I feel confident that it will be mostly burnt out by then. Will there still be some isolated cases, probably, but think if the Governor of Pennsylvania will loosen things up like the other Governors then it will be a great 2020 Hershey!

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13 minutes ago, Durant Mike said:

 Common sense must prevail. The masks are only good if you have it and don't want to spread it. Not good for keeping you from getting it so they say

 

Mike you do know that you can have the virus and not show any signs for 14 days while speading it. 

 

 

15 minutes ago, Durant Mike said:

 Common people this thing will be gone by October.

 

I thought it was going to be be gone by Easter? so now the new deadline is October? There are also professionals who are pretty certain that we will have a relapse in the fall, 

 

 

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Vintage Steam Products did not get the surveys.  Please send again.  Thank you.

 

I strongly believe Hershey 2020 should proceed this fall.  If some people decide not to come, I respect their decisions. 

 

But by by October, we'll know so much more about COVID 19 and how to deal with it.  There should be no problem keeping a "social distance" from people.

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22 minutes ago, Durant Mike said:

 Since this thing has started I have not worn a mask and don't intend to start. I had to wear one at my doctors office the other day and that was the only time I've worn one. Common sense must prevail. The masks are only good if you have it and don't want to spread it. Not good for keeping you from getting it so they say. Here in Florida, things are beginning to open up and the Virus is not running amuck since they've started to open. I filled out our questionnaire and said I'd plan to attend and with no reservations. Common people this thing will be gone by October. This is only the end of May, we have 4 months to shed this thing and I feel confident that it will be mostly burnt out by then. Will there still be some isolated cases, probably, but think if the Governor of Pennsylvania will loosen things up like the other Governors then it will be a great 2020 Hershey!

 

Common sense is wearing a mask:

rawImage.png

 

 

Also, saying that since things "opened up" last week that it hasn't gotten any worse doesn't prove anything other than a lack of understanding of what geometric progression is. With exponential growth, things don't seem to be changing until they change really fast and by really large numbers. Three or four weeks from now we'll know if it was a mistake, but one party in Connecticut with 50 attendees has already created 85 new cases. I hope you're right, but if you're not, are you comfortable being the vector for more dead people? I don't think I could forgive myself if I took unnecessary chances and then my 83-year-old father got sick as a result, especially if wearing a mask would have reduced that risk by 95%.

 

Wearing a mask isn't a sign of weakness or fear or belief, it's a sign that you respect other people who might be vulnerable and understand how viral transmission happens. Even if YOU don't think you'll get it or believe you can tough it out, you can still be a carrier and since there are people who can't fight it off as easily, they are at risk. The virus doesn't care what you believe or how invulnerable you think you are. This is the real deal--over the long weekend, a 38-year-old triathlete in peak condition lost his leg to it. He's not on the growing list of dead people, but do you think he'll ever be the same? At this rate, we will all have a friend or loved one affected by it sooner or later. Perhaps that will change peoples' minds. As the old expression goes, a dead child is a tragedy, 20 dead people is a disaster, but 100,000 dead people is just a statistic. I think maybe the problem is so large that many people have a hard time grasping how serious it really is.

 

My step-sister is a pathologist at Stanford examining the bodies, but hey, what could I possibly know? I'm happy to discuss facts, but if you are informed by a TV station or a politician or your gut, you are absolutely misinformed.

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1 hour ago, John348 said:

 

Mike you do know that you can have the virus and not show any signs for 14 days while speading it. 

 

 

 

I thought it was going to be be gone by Easter? so now the new deadline is October? There are also professionals who are pretty certain that we will have a relapse in the fall, 

 

 


the experts have a vested interest in making this as big a deal as possible.  They are scaring the crap out of anyone only casually paying attention.

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10 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

I'm happy to discuss facts, but if you are informed by a TV station or a politician or your gut, you are absolutely misinformed.

 

What or who's "expert's facts" will you be discussing, Matt? Last weeks? Today's? Tomorrow's? Or most likely: How the Hell should I know.......Bob

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10 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

Common sense is wearing a mask:

rawImage.png

 

 

Also, saying that since things "opened up" last week that it hasn't gotten any worse doesn't prove anything other than a lack of understanding of what geometric progression is. With exponential growth, things don't seem to be changing until they change really fast and by really large numbers. Three or four weeks from now we'll know if it was a mistake, but one party in Connecticut with 50 attendees has already created 85 new cases. I hope you're right, but if you're not, are you comfortable being the vector for more dead people? I don't think I could forgive myself if I took unnecessary chances and then my 83-year-old father got sick as a result, especially if wearing a mask would have reduced that risk by 95%.

 

Wearing a mask isn't a sign of weakness or fear or belief, it's a sign that you respect other people who might be vulnerable and understand how viral transmission happens. Even if YOU don't think you'll get it or believe you can tough it out, you can still be a carrier and since there are people who can't fight it off as easily, they are at risk. The virus doesn't care what you believe or how invulnerable you think you are. This is the real deal--over the long weekend, a 38-year-old triathlete in peak condition lost his leg to it. He's not on the growing list of dead people, but do you think he'll ever be the same? At this rate, we will all have a friend or loved one affected by it sooner or later. Perhaps that will change peoples' minds. As the old expression goes, a dead child is a tragedy, 20 dead people is a disaster, but 100,000 dead people is just a statistic. I think maybe the problem is so large that many people have a hard time grasping how serious it really is.

 

My step-sister is a pathologist at Stanford examining the bodies, but hey, what could I possibly know? I'm happy to discuss facts, but if you are informed by a TV station or a politician or your gut, you are absolutely misinformed.

 

Matt,  how would you explain the success in non lock down Florida,  with very elderly population only having 2200 deaths attributed to Corona,  while a total lock down NY has had 16,000?

 

Florida has a larger population btw,  almost 2 million people more.

 

 

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33 minutes ago, alsancle said:


the experts have a vested interest in making this as big a deal as possible.  They are scaring the crap out of anyone only casually paying attention.

 

You mean the experts who work for the White House? They stood on the stage at a press conference and both said that we should wear a mask when going outside to slow things down. SO I am only following their direction.

 

 

16 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

Matt,  how would you explain the success in non lock down Florida,  with very elderly population only having 2200 deaths attributed to Corona,  while a total lock down NY has had 16,000?

 

Florida has a larger population btw,  almost 2 million people more.

 

 

 

I have a home in both Florida and in the NYC Metro Area.  The answers your questions are pretty simple. The population density in NYC is much greater,  most people rely on mass transit, which dose not help. In Florida the Corona Virus showed up about 6 weeks (give or take), NYC was in full swing of the pandemic when it showed up in Florida.  I have been in Florida since January and if I did not have any contact with friends and family up in the NYC area, plus getting the NY Post delivered to my house in Florida, I just might not understand severity of this. I think Florida would be a total different story now if Disney and the theme did not close after Mardi Gras. You might not be aware of this but an annual vacation for Europeans is, fly to NY spend a few days, go to New Orleans and then wrap it up in Disney.   

 

I know of 3 people who passed away from it in NY,, all younger then 60 years old. One of which I was sitting at the bar at a Christmas Party of fellow Union Electricians. He was asking me about retiring and was planning on doing so this coming fall, and at least 15 more who have had it and survived. 

 

As far as Hershey goes, there is a lot of money that has to be laid out prior to the swap meet and I am sure they are at that point now. There are just too many variables that nobody has any control of, and I can understand the concerns of the Hershey Region

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1 hour ago, alsancle said:

 

Matt,  how would you explain the success in non lock down Florida,  with very elderly population only having 2200 deaths attributed to Corona,  while a total lock down NY has had 16,000?

 

Florida has a larger population btw,  almost 2 million people more.

 

 

 

Population density? It isn't just numbers, it's proximity. 8 million people in a city on an island 13 miles long vs 10 million in a state that's almost 450 miles from north to south. Not the same at all. I don't know if you've ever been to New York City, but you can't go anywhere alone. Mass transit, sidewalks, restrooms, grocery stores, whatever you're doing, you're doing it with a bunch of other people.

 

An exponential curve is shown below. People saying that it's over because the rate of new cases has not gone up don't realize we're likely still in the flat part of the curve and will be for whatever the incubation period is. That's also ignoring the fact that saying that the instance of new cases is consistent is like asking your doctor how your cancer treatment is going and he says, "Good news! The cancer is still growing at a constant rate!" NOT reassuring and NOT good news, wouldn't you say?

 

Like I said, things will seem OK until they're not, at which point it gets MUCH worse REALLY fast. But if that doesn't happen, if it's really over, if in three or four weeks the cycle doesn't start all over, if it's really a hoax and an over-hyped media sensation with an agenda aimed at ruining all that's good in this country, nothing will happen and we can go back to life as we knew it. I'll be every bit as happy as the rest of you. Hell, you can spike the football on me and tell me I'm a sissy and a fool and a liberal poopoo head for taking it so seriously. I'll listen, gladly, and be genuinely happy that we don't have to keep storing bodies in refrigerated semi trailers in parking lots and digging mass graves with steam shovels.


I only have one question: What if we're wrong and we could have prevented much of it by simply not being selfish and arrogant?
 

exponentialcurve-e1459307439130.jpg?w=58

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2 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

 

What or who's "expert's facts" will you be discussing, Matt? Last weeks? Today's? Tomorrow's? Or most likely: How the Hell should I know.......Bob

 

Well, the very essence of science is changing your beliefs based on new evidence. I understand that flies in direct contrast with a great many people who seem to think that once you make up your mind, you should stick to it regardless of new data. There are many who regard scientists and other experts with suspicion because they upgrade their theories with new information, but that's how science works. Scientists love being wrong because that's how new knowledge is obtained. Sticking to one viewpoint and treating any changes of opinion as evidence of ignorance or fraud is not how science is done. Rejecting information because it does not conform to pre-conceived beliefs is ignorance in its purest form. Confirmation bias is a real thing and even otherwise smart people can be swayed by it if they have an emotional investment in the outcome (like proving someone wrong or defending their "tribe").

 

This is a new virus in a population that is more dense, more populous, and more mobile than at any other point in history. New information about infection vectors, transmission rates, incubation periods, mutations, immunity percentages, and other things can color any expert's opinion because there's still so much that is unknown. What may be valid now may not be valid in a few weeks because things change and we learn more. I don't regard the evolution of belief as suspicious or a bad thing. As I said, it is how science works.

 

I don't think anyone has claimed to have all the answers, but experts telling you basic things like, "Wearing a mask significantly reduces your chances of catching and/or transmitting disease," and "Stay away from other people if there's a chance you or they are sick," doesn't seem like bad/incorrect/deceitful/frightening information to me. It seems like common sense advice based on years of knowledge and experience--you know, science. There was a time when scientists were laughed at when they proposed that surgeons sterilize their hands before performing surgery. It seems ludicrous today, and surely there were doctors back then who rejected it outright because they were just sure they knew all there was to known, but new information presented itself and it was incorporated into what we eventually came to regard as "fact."

 

So when there's a disease with a very high mortality rate, a very high infection rate, a very serious set of life-altering symptoms, no consistent immunity, and no vaccine, yet people still go out and do this:

 

8bf7b0c9-c51a-4fa2-81dc-c0ef315eba01.jpg

 

well, I'd think someone didn't know shit about diseases, but it wouldn't be the experts I would accuse. Hell, I wouldn't even get in that pool if 100,000 people didn't just die from an air and water-borne disease in the last 10 weeks.

 

So we'll see how many of those people get sick in the next 2-3 weeks. If it's none, like people are wishing, that'll be great news.

 

That is not where I would put my money, however.

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Gentlemen, everyone has a right to their opinion.  There are plenty to go around from well meaning, smart and educated people who now have the responsibility of keeping us safe and yet at the same time allow people to find a way to survive economically in these difficult times.  It's like the person from Harvard, Yale, Princeton etc. opining on things and all having different answers.  We also have individuals who are getting their information from news sources that may or may not be reputable or informed or even getting their information from friends.  Everyone has a right to their opinions and to make decisions for their own personal best interests.  This thread, however, was not designed to debate the virus issue one more time.

 

The region has to weigh numerous issues and has more than one constituency to hear from.  Factors from our state government mandates, use of property, concern for volunteers, concern for AACA members and the desire to serve the automobile hobby in hosting "the greatest show on earth" all come into play.  A decision will come soon and IF the show is held there will be regulations that will have to be followed, like them or not.  If Hershey does not happen if will be a sad day for all of us but  something that in the end was felt unavoidable.  Those involved in making the decision have already spent and enormous amount of time thinking through the options.

 

Let this play out and do your best to respect whatever decision is finally made....it will not have been an easy one!  

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