Hershey, Fall 2020 ...?

[John348]

13 minutes ago, Durant Mike said:

 Common sense must prevail. The masks are only good if you have it and don't want to spread it. Not good for keeping you from getting it so they say

 

Mike you do know that you can have the virus and not show any signs for 14 days while speading it. 

 

 

15 minutes ago, Durant Mike said:

 Common people this thing will be gone by October.

 

I thought it was going to be be gone by Easter? so now the new deadline is October? There are also professionals who are pretty certain that we will have a relapse in the fall, 

 

 

[1925Stanley]

Vintage Steam Products did not get the surveys.  Please send again.  Thank you.

 

I strongly believe Hershey 2020 should proceed this fall.  If some people decide not to come, I respect their decisions. 

 

But by by October, we'll know so much more about COVID 19 and how to deal with it.  There should be no problem keeping a "social distance" from people.

[Matt Harwood]

22 minutes ago, Durant Mike said:

 Since this thing has started I have not worn a mask and don't intend to start. I had to wear one at my doctors office the other day and that was the only time I've worn one. Common sense must prevail. The masks are only good if you have it and don't want to spread it. Not good for keeping you from getting it so they say. Here in Florida, things are beginning to open up and the Virus is not running amuck since they've started to open. I filled out our questionnaire and said I'd plan to attend and with no reservations. Common people this thing will be gone by October. This is only the end of May, we have 4 months to shed this thing and I feel confident that it will be mostly burnt out by then. Will there still be some isolated cases, probably, but think if the Governor of Pennsylvania will loosen things up like the other Governors then it will be a great 2020 Hershey!

 

Common sense is wearing a mask:

 

 

Also, saying that since things "opened up" last week that it hasn't gotten any worse doesn't prove anything other than a lack of understanding of what geometric progression is. With exponential growth, things don't seem to be changing until they change really fast and by really large numbers. Three or four weeks from now we'll know if it was a mistake, but one party in Connecticut with 50 attendees has already created 85 new cases. I hope you're right, but if you're not, are you comfortable being the vector for more dead people? I don't think I could forgive myself if I took unnecessary chances and then my 83-year-old father got sick as a result, especially if wearing a mask would have reduced that risk by 95%.

 

Wearing a mask isn't a sign of weakness or fear or belief, it's a sign that you respect other people who might be vulnerable and understand how viral transmission happens. Even if YOU don't think you'll get it or believe you can tough it out, you can still be a carrier and since there are people who can't fight it off as easily, they are at risk. The virus doesn't care what you believe or how invulnerable you think you are. This is the real deal--over the long weekend, a 38-year-old triathlete in peak condition lost his leg to it. He's not on the growing list of dead people, but do you think he'll ever be the same? At this rate, we will all have a friend or loved one affected by it sooner or later. Perhaps that will change peoples' minds. As the old expression goes, a dead child is a tragedy, 20 dead people is a disaster, but 100,000 dead people is just a statistic. I think maybe the problem is so large that many people have a hard time grasping how serious it really is.

 

My step-sister is a pathologist at Stanford examining the bodies, but hey, what could I possibly know? I'm happy to discuss facts, but if you are informed by a TV station or a politician or your gut, you are absolutely misinformed.

[alsancle]

1 hour ago, John348 said:

 

Mike you do know that you can have the virus and not show any signs for 14 days while speading it. 

 

 

 

I thought it was going to be be gone by Easter? so now the new deadline is October? There are also professionals who are pretty certain that we will have a relapse in the fall, 

 

 

the experts have a vested interest in making this as big a deal as possible.  They are scaring the crap out of anyone only casually paying attention.

[Bhigdog]

10 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

I'm happy to discuss facts, but if you are informed by a TV station or a politician or your gut, you are absolutely misinformed.

 

What or who's "expert's facts" will you be discussing, Matt? Last weeks? Today's? Tomorrow's? Or most likely: How the Hell should I know.......Bob

[alsancle]

10 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

 

Common sense is wearing a mask:

 

 

Also, saying that since things "opened up" last week that it hasn't gotten any worse doesn't prove anything other than a lack of understanding of what geometric progression is. With exponential growth, things don't seem to be changing until they change really fast and by really large numbers. Three or four weeks from now we'll know if it was a mistake, but one party in Connecticut with 50 attendees has already created 85 new cases. I hope you're right, but if you're not, are you comfortable being the vector for more dead people? I don't think I could forgive myself if I took unnecessary chances and then my 83-year-old father got sick as a result, especially if wearing a mask would have reduced that risk by 95%.

 

Wearing a mask isn't a sign of weakness or fear or belief, it's a sign that you respect other people who might be vulnerable and understand how viral transmission happens. Even if YOU don't think you'll get it or believe you can tough it out, you can still be a carrier and since there are people who can't fight it off as easily, they are at risk. The virus doesn't care what you believe or how invulnerable you think you are. This is the real deal--over the long weekend, a 38-year-old triathlete in peak condition lost his leg to it. He's not on the growing list of dead people, but do you think he'll ever be the same? At this rate, we will all have a friend or loved one affected by it sooner or later. Perhaps that will change peoples' minds. As the old expression goes, a dead child is a tragedy, 20 dead people is a disaster, but 100,000 dead people is just a statistic. I think maybe the problem is so large that many people have a hard time grasping how serious it really is.

 

My step-sister is a pathologist at Stanford examining the bodies, but hey, what could I possibly know? I'm happy to discuss facts, but if you are informed by a TV station or a politician or your gut, you are absolutely misinformed.

 

Matt,  how would you explain the success in non lock down Florida,  with very elderly population only having 2200 deaths attributed to Corona,  while a total lock down NY has had 16,000?

 

Florida has a larger population btw,  almost 2 million people more.

 

 

[John348]

33 minutes ago, alsancle said:

the experts have a vested interest in making this as big a deal as possible.  They are scaring the crap out of anyone only casually paying attention.

 

You mean the experts who work for the White House? They stood on the stage at a press conference and both said that we should wear a mask when going outside to slow things down. SO I am only following their direction.

 

 

16 minutes ago, alsancle said:

 

Matt,  how would you explain the success in non lock down Florida,  with very elderly population only having 2200 deaths attributed to Corona,  while a total lock down NY has had 16,000?

 

Florida has a larger population btw,  almost 2 million people more.

 

 

 

I have a home in both Florida and in the NYC Metro Area.  The answers your questions are pretty simple. The population density in NYC is much greater,  most people rely on mass transit, which dose not help. In Florida the Corona Virus showed up about 6 weeks (give or take), NYC was in full swing of the pandemic when it showed up in Florida.  I have been in Florida since January and if I did not have any contact with friends and family up in the NYC area, plus getting the NY Post delivered to my house in Florida, I just might not understand severity of this. I think Florida would be a total different story now if Disney and the theme did not close after Mardi Gras. You might not be aware of this but an annual vacation for Europeans is, fly to NY spend a few days, go to New Orleans and then wrap it up in Disney.   

 

I know of 3 people who passed away from it in NY,, all younger then 60 years old. One of which I was sitting at the bar at a Christmas Party of fellow Union Electricians. He was asking me about retiring and was planning on doing so this coming fall, and at least 15 more who have had it and survived. 

 

As far as Hershey goes, there is a lot of money that has to be laid out prior to the swap meet and I am sure they are at that point now. There are just too many variables that nobody has any control of, and I can understand the concerns of the Hershey Region

[Matt Harwood]

1 hour ago, alsancle said:

 

Matt,  how would you explain the success in non lock down Florida,  with very elderly population only having 2200 deaths attributed to Corona,  while a total lock down NY has had 16,000?

 

Florida has a larger population btw,  almost 2 million people more.

 

 

 

Population density? It isn't just numbers, it's proximity. 8 million people in a city on an island 13 miles long vs 10 million in a state that's almost 450 miles from north to south. Not the same at all. I don't know if you've ever been to New York City, but you can't go anywhere alone. Mass transit, sidewalks, restrooms, grocery stores, whatever you're doing, you're doing it with a bunch of other people.

 

An exponential curve is shown below. People saying that it's over because the rate of new cases has not gone up don't realize we're likely still in the flat part of the curve and will be for whatever the incubation period is. That's also ignoring the fact that saying that the instance of new cases is consistent is like asking your doctor how your cancer treatment is going and he says, "Good news! The cancer is still growing at a constant rate!" NOT reassuring and NOT good news, wouldn't you say?

 

Like I said, things will seem OK until they're not, at which point it gets MUCH worse REALLY fast. But if that doesn't happen, if it's really over, if in three or four weeks the cycle doesn't start all over, if it's really a hoax and an over-hyped media sensation with an agenda aimed at ruining all that's good in this country, nothing will happen and we can go back to life as we knew it. I'll be every bit as happy as the rest of you. Hell, you can spike the football on me and tell me I'm a sissy and a fool and a liberal poopoo head for taking it so seriously. I'll listen, gladly, and be genuinely happy that we don't have to keep storing bodies in refrigerated semi trailers in parking lots and digging mass graves with steam shovels.

I only have one question: What if we're wrong and we could have prevented much of it by simply not being selfish and arrogant?
 

[Matt Harwood]

2 hours ago, Bhigdog said:

 

What or who's "expert's facts" will you be discussing, Matt? Last weeks? Today's? Tomorrow's? Or most likely: How the Hell should I know.......Bob

 

Well, the very essence of science is changing your beliefs based on new evidence. I understand that flies in direct contrast with a great many people who seem to think that once you make up your mind, you should stick to it regardless of new data. There are many who regard scientists and other experts with suspicion because they upgrade their theories with new information, but that's how science works. Scientists love being wrong because that's how new knowledge is obtained. Sticking to one viewpoint and treating any changes of opinion as evidence of ignorance or fraud is not how science is done. Rejecting information because it does not conform to pre-conceived beliefs is ignorance in its purest form. Confirmation bias is a real thing and even otherwise smart people can be swayed by it if they have an emotional investment in the outcome (like proving someone wrong or defending their "tribe").

 

This is a new virus in a population that is more dense, more populous, and more mobile than at any other point in history. New information about infection vectors, transmission rates, incubation periods, mutations, immunity percentages, and other things can color any expert's opinion because there's still so much that is unknown. What may be valid now may not be valid in a few weeks because things change and we learn more. I don't regard the evolution of belief as suspicious or a bad thing. As I said, it is how science works.

 

I don't think anyone has claimed to have all the answers, but experts telling you basic things like, "Wearing a mask significantly reduces your chances of catching and/or transmitting disease," and "Stay away from other people if there's a chance you or they are sick," doesn't seem like bad/incorrect/deceitful/frightening information to me. It seems like common sense advice based on years of knowledge and experience--you know, science. There was a time when scientists were laughed at when they proposed that surgeons sterilize their hands before performing surgery. It seems ludicrous today, and surely there were doctors back then who rejected it outright because they were just sure they knew all there was to known, but new information presented itself and it was incorporated into what we eventually came to regard as "fact."

 

So when there's a disease with a very high mortality rate, a very high infection rate, a very serious set of life-altering symptoms, no consistent immunity, and no vaccine, yet people still go out and do this:

 

 

well, I'd think someone didn't know shit about diseases, but it wouldn't be the experts I would accuse. Hell, I wouldn't even get in that pool if 100,000 people didn't just die from an air and water-borne disease in the last 10 weeks.

 

So we'll see how many of those people get sick in the next 2-3 weeks. If it's none, like people are wishing, that'll be great news.

 

That is not where I would put my money, however.

[Steve Moskowitz]

Gentlemen, everyone has a right to their opinion.  There are plenty to go around from well meaning, smart and educated people who now have the responsibility of keeping us safe and yet at the same time allow people to find a way to survive economically in these difficult times.  It's like the person from Harvard, Yale, Princeton etc. opining on things and all having different answers.  We also have individuals who are getting their information from news sources that may or may not be reputable or informed or even getting their information from friends.  Everyone has a right to their opinions and to make decisions for their own personal best interests.  This thread, however, was not designed to debate the virus issue one more time.

 

The region has to weigh numerous issues and has more than one constituency to hear from.  Factors from our state government mandates, use of property, concern for volunteers, concern for AACA members and the desire to serve the automobile hobby in hosting "the greatest show on earth" all come into play.  A decision will come soon and IF the show is held there will be regulations that will have to be followed, like them or not.  If Hershey does not happen if will be a sad day for all of us but  something that in the end was felt unavoidable.  Those involved in making the decision have already spent and enormous amount of time thinking through the options.

 

Let this play out and do your best to respect whatever decision is finally made....it will not have been an easy one!  

[3macboys]

37 minutes ago, Matt Harwood said:

This is a new virus

Just to add to Matt's point, everything that we really know about this virus has been learned in the last 10-12 weeks.  The supposed information from prior to that period I would charitably call unreliable from the source.  There's a lot of subject area experts here and I'm pretty sure that it took a lot longer than 10-12 weeks or even years to gain the knowledge that you have.  Like the vast majority I'm hopeful that this will be short term pain and that this will soon pass us by, however, in the meantime I'm content to follow the rules from the London tube and Mind the Gap.  

 

[Bhigdog]

Of course common sense measures should prevail, Matt.

The problem is many, if not most, of the "experts", have an agenda. This whole pandemic "thing" has turned into an opportunistic feeding frenzy. From the scum bags selling knock off N95 masks, to the research "scientists" looking for grants, to the media of all stripes looking for sensationalist "bombshells", to the folks looking to say "anything" that will get them on cable news, to the drug companies hoping for mega buck tax funds to come up with a drug, any drug, they can sell at a 1000% mark up and, of course, the ruling elite who will say or do anything to further their own ambitions.

So, I will continue to question most  any "fact", disregard all anecdotal "freezers full of bodies" stories,  and just go about my daily business as best I can. I will wear a mask when necessary, avoid crowds, and wash my hands.

To the extent possible I refuse to be manipulated for someone else's benefit.

And so it goes...........Bob

 

Edited May 27, 2020 by Bhigdog (see edit history)

[Bhigdog]

As we talk i,m sitting in our local hospital ER with my wife. Relatively minor cut. Couple of stitches. Of course everyone is masked. In a break of the action I asked the attending doc if they have had any covid patients. He said yeah we get them. I said do you keep them here or send them to another hospital. He looked at me and said "we send them home. It,s just another virus. The vast majority of other wise healthy people are sick for awhile then get better."

Anecdotal I know, but a real time report from a real doctor in the real  trenches ....bob

[32tatra]

Its may 27 and I have yet to get the survey.  I have been a vendor since 1994.  Now they should have a survey, to see who got the survey!!!

[Steve Rinaldo]

A friend of mine had some ball caps made with a very appropriate saying for this discussion and our country in general

 

                                                                           " MAKE AMERICA THINK AGAIN"

Steve

[Joe Block]

answer the Vendor survey,  Didn't see the other.

 

Joe Block

[Wowabunga]

There are SO MANY EMPTY vending spaces in the Green and Orange fields there should be no worries.  Social distancing before it was trendy.  

 

 

 

 

[Restorer32]

My 94 year old Aunt lives in a nursing home in Lancaster, PA. 20 of her fellow residents have died from the virus.  She dodged a bullet.  She had the virus but survived.  She's tough and lucky.  She also recovered from polio in the 1940's.  Hope I have some of her genes.

[Scott D]

I am a vendor who did not get a survey and I check my spam pretty carefully. 

Feel free to sent the survey again. 

 

I am in favor of having the show even though the attendance may be less. I think, social distancing should be no problem.

 

Thanks,

Scott Deno

CCW 14-17

nsdeds@hotmail.com

[John_S_in_Penna]

I look forward to AACA events, especially Hershey.

With most of the year's events evidently not to be

held, I hope, however, that we're not losing disappointed

members or dampening enthusiasm.  We may be.

 

One of our local members, who travels around the country

to AACA events and serves our region very actively--he's even

been a co-chairman of at least one national event--wrote to me:

 

"I couldn't care LESS  whatever they want to do about Hershey

or ANY of the AACA events. They cancelled the Eastern Spring

Nationals after I spent a lot of time getting a good price on a motel,

figured out what tours/events I wanted to attend and registered to judge...

I am not judging with a Mask on my face !!!!!!!!!...

So, I have moved on a long, long, long time ago and I have plenty of

things to keep me busy and happy.... I am not going to sit around

and wait to see what is going to be cancelled next."

 

Myself, I don't feel that way.  These delays are making me MORE eager

to get to car events as soon as they resume.

 

[thehandleman]

I am ok either way they decide, I am just not happy about the whole crap covid at all. My Father vended 52 years straight till his passing in 2012 he took me and my brother as lil ones then out of school every year since like 64-77 I missed many years 70’s 80’s in the Marines and USCS but came back with dad and brother 90’s then selling strong since 2004 every year since. It’s part of me but this one has no winners tuff,

just don’t see how 100,000 people a day can social distance on a 8’ wide road let alone I have had times with 15-25 buyers in my tiny rows of tons of steel sheet metal handle bins and table rows of misc., how do I with underlying problems and how does the buyer avoid parts paths contact with them in tiny rows, do I bring less? I am already in for 10 spots @ 800 plus program ad fees and hotel and food fuel pulling 10,000 lbs trailer just to get there. It’s a tuff one for my livelihood as well, and as anyone of my age and up.

     I do not envy the Hershey region mixed feelings prepare for worst hope for best

RB

Chocolate South CH74-83

[pkhammer]

 I hope that the organizers of this event get good solid feedback concerning Hershey so they have as accurate of data as possible to base their decisions. I for one plan to be there unless things are really bad with the virus at that time. Of course we all hope it will be much, much better but who can say for sure what tings will be like over four months from now? I'm sure with the amount of planning that must go into an event like this a decision needs to be made more sooner than later to make sure unnecessary dollars and time doesn't get wasted on an event that ultimately can't happen. I do not envy their position and I'm glad it's a decision I don't have to make! So many things to consider if you think about it, it's mind boggling. If it gets cancelled I'm sure there will be a lot (thousands) of disappointed people and I will be one of them, but at the same time I will understand that it had to be done.

 

 If the event DOES go on then those of us who do go need to be prepared for a MUCH different Hershey. I can see the fields being only half full perhaps because many vendors will not come unless this COVID-19 thing happens to be gone by then. Buyers and spectators will no doubt be way down too so I would expect to see a much smaller crowd overall. If it's on then great! I plan to be there with mask, hand sanitizer, wipes and anything else to help protect myself and others. I hope nobody gets offended if I don't shake hands. Either way I will stand behind the decision that gets made. Life will go on and we'll be preparing for a HUGE event in 2021!!!

  

[Steve Moskowitz]

At this time I would avoid speculation as there should be a press release out by tomorrow if not today that will explain where we all stand in this unfortunate time.  

[FJD2004]

I am a vendor and did not receive a survey via email.

 

[Steve Moskowitz]

It is with great regret that the AACA Hershey Region Executive Board informs you that the 2020 Hershey Fall Meet has been cancelled. This decision was not arrived at lightly. Our Club prides itself on producing a world-class event that thousands of people anticipate every year, so we felt the heaviest of burdens when faced with this decision.

 

While making the difficult choice to cancel, the Board took many obstacles into account, including but not limited to: the health and welfare of our volunteers, vendors, partners, and visitors; the unknown restrictions and/or guidelines that may be in place at the time of our show; and the volunteer-only workforce we rely on to prepare for a show of our magnitude.

 

We appreciate you understanding how difficult this decision was for the Executive Board to make. We know that some people will be upset by the decision and others will applaud it. Either way, please know that the Hershey Region Executive Board has acted in what they believe are the best interests of the Club, and we ask for your continued support as we navigate these unprecedented times.

 

Refund information will be sent very soon in regards to all payments already received by the Hershey Region AACA.

 

Please know that we continue to explore ideas to benefit the hobby and are working toward the possibility of still hosting our usual car show on Saturday in October.  While this may not be doable, AACA and the Hershey Region along with other constituencies are working hard to make this possible.  Please visit our website and social media as often as possible for the latest news.

 

Hershey Region AACA

[Steve Moskowitz]

Please take note of the blue section in the above post, the fall meet has not been completely canceled.  At the present time the flea market and car corral are in fact canceled but all parties are working as hard as humanly possible to get the show approved on Saturday.  We have a plan.  We, AACA, the Hershey Region and HE&R are all 100% in agreement to do this...we just need cooperation from our state government and we WILL have a show!

[thehandleman]

Very Sad Steve, but I understand,do you know if monies can just be applied to our spaces for 2021 ?

Thank you for all you do and to Hershey Region

[trimacar]

A really tough decision, I'd guess mostly driven by the fact that a lot of volunteer workers were skeptical of being exposed.

 

Not the end of the world, a big event, but in the big picture a year hiatus won't affect us in any lasting way.

 

See you in 2021!  I really will miss seeing a lot of friends ….  cars and parts are secondary at this point, it's the smiles and handshakes I'll miss most....

[auburnseeker]

Sad enough to see the show cancelled, but equally or even sadder for the residents that work at all the businesses,  motels, restaurants etc. that look forward to that and all the other weeks they are already losing of employment.    Especially the business owners as they don't get unemployment and still have expenses.  They are going to see the ripple affect to the economy of this virus with shutdown measures is much wider than most can comprehend and won't be seen for almost 6 months when the crap really hits the fan. 

 

I live in a tourist town and my wife works in that industry.  We were talking about this long before the first official shutdown of our area. 

[Steve Moskowitz]

Folks, the region will be sending a post card out very shortly giving you the information about refunds.  That is their territory and I cannot speak for them at this point.  I hope no one reads too much into any of this but David it was NOT mostly driven by the volunteer issue.  Many were more than willing to risk health issues so that everyone could enjoy the fall meet.  Our state government has policies now that preclude a lot of things happening and if you read our Governor's press releases it becomes very clear that the region had a huge obstacle to clear and at this time there was no way to get around it.  I am not bashing nor do I want this forum to turn into a political debate.  For us, it is simple, AACA and the Hershey Region has to abide by the laws and regulations of our state.

[pkhammer]

  Not the news we wanted to hear but I understand. Already looking forward to a big show in 2021!!!!!!!!

[Bhigdog]

Given all the uncertainties and and the ever evolving conditions, some logical and others unfathomable, I believe the wisest choice was made........Bob

[edinmass]

And I was having the first good day in a month until I just read this. I’m sure it was the correct decision. I still don’t like it. Life will go on, and 2021 will be here before you know it. Sure doesn’t seem that my first time was 49 years ago.........having missed a few over the years, it just makes the next one that much better. Thanks to all who run the event. You bring joy to countless people making the hobby a much better place to spend time with family and friends.

[Matt Harwood]

I'm heartbroken. I don't know what to do. Going to go outside and punch the punching wall for a while, I guess. 

[Terry Bond]

At some point during what would have been Hershey week, I'm going to set up an awning and a couple of tables in the back yard, put some stuff on the tables, and sit back with a glass of single malt and think about all the Hershey's I've ever been to.  Join me and post photos- we'll have a "virtual Hershey."

Terry

[Walt G]

David Coco stated that very well- it is the friendships and the handshakes that we will miss the most. I have been to everyone since 1965, and now it is an annual "reunion" to spend time with friends from Germany and England as well. I feel bad for all the businesses as well, it was most likely one of their biggest weeks before the holiday season sets in. Thanks to AACA and especially to the Hershey region and its members.

WG

[edinmass]

Just to pile on.......my one ray of hope for this year, Hilton Head, was also cancelled yesterday. Now I shall go drinking and get depressed. 

[gossp]

31 minutes ago, edinmass said:

Just to pile on.......my one ray of hope for this year, Hilton Head, was also cancelled yesterday. Now I shall go drinking and get depressed. 

yeah. 

[auburnseeker]

1 hour ago, edinmass said:

Just to pile on.......my one ray of hope for this year, Hilton Head, was also cancelled yesterday. Now I shall go drinking and get depressed. 

Remember though, listen to all the celebrities and just stay home and be happy.  If I hear that one more time or reference to follow the experts guidelines which change completely almost every day I'm going to go on a Rampage.  

I was so looking forward to show season for swap meets this year to find a better trunk and maybe even pair of pilots rays to replace the cyclops one on Victoria,  not to mention a few trinkets for the Dodge. 

You know all the stuff you run across at shows but never bought before because you didn't have a car they fit. 

[Billkrz]

4 hours ago, Steve Moskowitz said:

Please take note of the blue section in the above post, the fall meet has not been completely canceled.  At the present time the flea market and car corral are in fact canceled but all parties are working as hard as humanly possible to get the show approved on Saturday.  We have a plan.  We, AACA, the Hershey Region and HE&R are all 100% in agreement to do this...we just need cooperation from our state government and we WILL have a show!

Carlisle Events are still advertising multiple events taking place beginning in mid-June with Spring Carlisle. Does anyone know how they are able to function with the state government or have they just not announced cancellations?