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Working on the 60 Electra


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22 hours ago, Bill Stoneberg said:

It seems line a hole was wollered out

Wollered out might be repairable. If it was hogged out a repair would be a lot harder to do.

 

I hear there is a problem with more than just your turbine blade in your neighborhood. Couple extras lying around up here.

 

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Current dialouge about the turbines is that they were not properly winterized, as they would have been in northern areas where they also apparently operate without issues in cold weather.  The inspections of such were done virtually, due to the virus issues.  End result?  Assurances of "we're ready" were not completely accurate.  When the private sector seems to fail, as several entities seemed to in TX, government oversight needs to be increased.  Either from "boots on the ground" or upgraded performance specs/expectations.  With TX being a de-regulated energy state, reports of astronomical electricity bills have already surfaced.  One citizen had three meters, all of which would normally be about $600.00, have suddenly ballooned to about $5K each (reported on local tv news a day or so ago).  Another example could be a small restaurant which might normally have an energy bill of $5K/month might see their bill approach $17K/month (from another news report), which might send them out of business. 

 

Then there's the issue with natural gas freezing in the main supply lines.

 

Lots of little or big side issues to "winterization", which will continue to evolve as the next weeks progress.

 

Y'all take care,

NTX5467

 

 

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1 hour ago, NTX5467 said:

Assurances of "we're ready" were not completely accurate. 

 

"I thought" are the two most dangerous words in the English language. Just think about what happened right before you heard them uttered last.

 

Don't forget that during Dynaflow assembly.

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On 2/19/2021 at 12:56 PM, Bill Stoneberg said:

Pictures of the stator....

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Bill the term i believe for what happened to your stator is a vane "FOLDED OVER"  no joke when i bought my 60 many many years ago my stator looked just like yours. replaced the one vane checked the rest and back together it went. those stator vanes are constantly under pressure and heat so like anything else sometimes fail. you are holding the father of the switch pitch turbo hydramatics and the reason the trans is so smooth and became a better performer once the movable stator was added i the mid 50's. you just have to love the engineering that went into these cars. i love telling people i have a trans that doesn't shift, totally confuses non  Buick owners. they just don't understand. good luck with your project 

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  • 3 weeks later...

No work done as we are waiting on parts.  We actually went to a car show this weekend. Lots of Mustangs and Corvettes and surprisingly Italian exotics. Including one that was wrapped with gold. So ugly, I didn't take a picture of it as I was afraid my camera would break.

A fun diversion that benefited the high schools automotive technology program.

Here is the more interesting (to me) vehicles.

 

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Did you use FATSCO as a source for parts? I may have my '60 done this year and saw they have a good selection on bushings.

 

I have a shop near me that speaks Dynaflow well and they have done good work for me in the past. I am not really inclined to farm it out, but if I do it myself the job could snowball into more than I planned... if you get my drift.

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9 hours ago, 60FlatTop said:

Did you use FATSCO as a source for parts? I may have my '60 done this year and saw they have a good selection on bushings.

 

I have a shop near me that speaks Dynaflow well and they have done good work for me in the past. I am not really inclined to farm it out, but if I do it myself the job could snowball into more than I planned... if you get my drift.

Bernie, I used Fatsco. Mike knows his Dynaflow and gave good information.

Make sure you take your torque converter apart. There are wear parts in that thing.

Yes, it can snowball.

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2 hours ago, avgwarhawk said:

These parts look to us like a tennis bracelet looks to the missus.  Where did your find these gemstones?

  

These came from Fusiks, https://www.fusickautomotiveproducts.com.

Mike has been very helpful with the Dynaflow rebuild.  

Now we can get it put back together again.

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Is that a sun gear drum? Just curious what you found wrong and if you only needed the drum.

 

I made the appointment to drop my '60 off at L&M Transmission on the 29th. They were ok with me ordering a rebuild kit and bushings from FATSCO. Normally they would have disassembled and made the order. If I end up with extra bushings I will just put them on Ebay. I have a torque ball kit I never got in either.

 

The encouraging part was placing the order and having them know the shop by first name.

 

As I wrote before, this is a shop I trust and have used before. My mission is to have a 20 hour job done in 20 working hours. If I did it the next driving time would be 2022.

 

I hope we can get the three of them together sometime.

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Bernie, I don’t know the name of the drum but we replaced it because it was scored badly. There was a copper or bronze bearing that it ran on that was worn out. We are replacing both.  We have a master rebuild kit and a torque ball rebuild kit and are using all of both.

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Posted (edited)

Well, my wife came to me today as I was sitting out on the back porch. She asked what did I order because I can’t move the box the UPS man left on the front porch. Went out and found a 40 lb box waiting for me.

I had ordered a new pair of front spindles for this car giving the car a 2” drop and front disc brakes.  I saw a 1960 Le Sabre Wagon with this kit on it and really liked how it looked. The parts are well made and tie right into the stock steering. Uses disc brakes from a Chevy pickup(rotors)and a Camero(calipers).

 

 

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Edited by Bill Stoneberg (see edit history)
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No.  It is not Scarebird.  I bought the 2 inch drop spindles from Fatman fabrications. They gave me a list of what I needed for brakes.

I believe Scarebird uses Chevy Astro van and Eldorado parts.

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So Rob spent today working on the turbine/converter. 
It definitely ate and chewed on some metal. The metal was crushed into the teeth of the planetary gear set in the turbine unit. Also the secondary fixed stator was grinding into the outer wall of the housing. The bearings, thrust washers (brass things I ordered) and the sprag clutches look wiped. I’m going to order both sprags Monday and a few more bushings.


 

Rob can’t find what it ate. So his guess is someone dropped or left something inside that trans when it was apart. Unless he finds something when He  get into the front pump tonight then we’re in the clear. 

 

 

 

 

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Rob is Still doing disassembly of the Dynaflow.   This time of the clutch assembly. He had to make a tool to replace the direct clutch piston and the rings. Metal bits were found in this assembly too.

 

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Whatever it is called worked because it is now back together. His comments were that the seals and rings were dry and cracked. I am glad he likes working on old transmissions.

 

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Rob says he has the main part of the transmission back together and hopes parts come in so he can put the Torque Converter together.  I hope so to so we can get started on the front suspension and the engine assembly.

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Posted (edited)

I made a trip to Austin yesterday to check out progress. It was a nice 2 hour drive till I got close and the it was traffic central.  
After unloading parts and checking figment issues on a couple of things it was time to look at the Dynaflow. 
It was spread all over his bench in a variety of parts and piles.  Clutches were sitting in a bowl of ATF, gauges were out to measure stuff and there was a pile of new parts.

Lets put it this way, the transmission, while still running, needed some help.

Bushings and bearings were totally worn out as was evident buy the metal bits that were EVERYWHERE.

After a late lunch I headed home and Rob started putting things back together.

This is the Front Pump....

 


 

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Edited by Bill Stoneberg (see edit history)
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27 minutes ago, avgwarhawk said:

What was the miles on this Dynaflow? 

The odometer read around 53,000.  While it looks like a 53,000 mile car, we wonder about it.  Trans and engine both look like they had much more.

I have a lot of receipts for the car but nothing for any kind of engine or transmission work.

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2 hours ago, Bill Stoneberg said:

The odometer read around 53,000.  While it looks like a 53,000 mile car, we wonder about it.  Trans and engine both look like they had much more.

I have a lot of receipts for the car but nothing for any kind of engine or transmission work.

Thanks why I asked. Seems like a lot of wear on both engine and transmission.  Think she has turned over and has 153k? 

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Posted (edited)

Chris,  its rather a 153K car or it was rode hard, put up wet and never had an oil change. Transmission had been worked on before as we found Blue RTV in it.

And whoever did it, just did a hack job.  It ran and got me on down the road but at some point it was going to leave me stranded.

Engine, as I said before, had a huge ridge at the top of every cylinder. The cam was pretty much gone and the rocker arm tips were worn out.

The valves had receded a good ways into the heads to the point where I had to find a different set of heads to use.

While I realize that the older lubricants are not what we have now, it seems like a lot of wear for a 53 K motor.

 

But the suspension had not been touched as the ball joints were still riveted in place. Front shocks look OEM and all the rubber looks 60 years old.

Have not gotten to the back of the car yet to see about the rear end and back shocks and springs. They are all going to be replaced no matter what.

And who knows about the rear end, its not making any noise but there is no cover to look at it.  If nothing more we will change the fluid and hope its good.

 

Edited by Bill Stoneberg (see edit history)
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Putting the new bushing into the pump, I will let Rob tell the story.

 

So first I had to go get and find all the parts to my press.

Then I picked up a bearing and seal installer die set from Harbor Freight on sale for $29.99. Good for getting the race started but all of them made are the incorrect size. Nothing online or at Orielly.

So I found a socket that was .0035 too thick and turned a few thousands off it on my “homemade lathe” aka used my 3/8 impact drill motor and 3 socket adapters to hold and spin the socket against my grinder then final finished it on the belt sander.

 

Then I took a sheet of cold rolled 1/4 plate steel and plasma cut a hole in the middle just large enough to press out the bearing race. This is needed for support in the press as to not warp or crack the pump housing. That would suck.

 

I then pressed the pump dowel pins out to make one side flat to lay on the steel plate.

 

Worked like a champ, pressed the old one out, pressed the new one in.

7 hours later....😂

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Great Job!!!  The more I follow this thread the more I am glad I have a machine shop in my old garage and know how to use it 😂!!!  One of these days I will be working on my 60 and this will be the go to bible for the upkeep!!! I should only have to do half the work as mine is a family car with just over 70K known to be original!  I also will not be attempting the AC install...that is just to much work for me.

  You are going to have a wonderful car when you are done. It will be like driving on a cloud and cool in the hot Texas summers!

Edited by 37_Roadmaster_C
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Posted (edited)

Update on the Dynaflow...

Here is a picture of the seal Rob was working on installing.  Now it is installed. He chamfered the edge to help with the fluid flow.

 

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Rob is also finishing up installing the back half. Polishing all the shafts so that it doesn’t they don’t tear up the new bearings and seals.

On the rightl is an unpolished shaft and the left  is polished.

 

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Edited by Bill Stoneberg (see edit history)
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Posted (edited)

Moreo on the Dynaflow... before we get into this, my Dynaflow leaked like all of them did.  The PO had tried to fix it judging by the copious amount of Blue RTV spread everywhere.

why did it leak, you may ask. Beside the normal “Buick’s like to mark their spot” comment, Rob being the OCD engineer that he is found another reason.


He was putting the front oil pump and the reaction shaft flange the front pump and noticed something wrong.  If you look at the first picture, you can see a square cut groove in the pump. This sits against the steel plate. 
 

When Rob took this apart, there was no seal in the groove. Looking at the parts in the rebuild kit, there was no seal. Looking at the shop manual, it shows no seal.  With no seal, the thing is going to leak. Pressure on the inside, no seal against a flat piece of metal equals leaks.

 

When we ordered the rebuild kit they included a breakdown of parts and an exploded diagram. The seal was not in the list of parts but was in the exploded diagram that was included.  
 

talking to the folks at Fasco, they have the part and has shipped it to us.


What a mess and I am glad Rob  spent the time and effort to find this.

 

Pictures in the next post...

 

 

 

Edited by Bill Stoneberg (see edit history)
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